BajaNomad - How not to get stuck in the sand....

How not to get stuck in the sand....

Matt&Mutt - 5-5-2008 at 01:49 PM

There's 3 basic tenets of off-pavement driving that'll keep you out of the muck. I routinely ignore all of them.

1) Air down. Highway/city folks are scared that their tires'll fly off the rims if they are below 32 psi. Not so, unless you're taking some hard corners on solid ground. I typically air down to 20 on routine washboard/softy, down to 15 on soft/deep sands, and reserve airing down to 10 for when I'm stuck in some serious deeps (if I can't get out at 10, I shouldn't have been there in the first place). For off-pavement newbies, if there's not a llantera and you don't have a compressor ($10 at Wallyworld for the cheapest Chinese model), you can safely drive (no hard turns/braking) for 40 or 50 miles to find air. Just keep it below 55 and you'll be fine.

2) Don't stop !! If you're in the muck, or crawling up a hill (especially), the last thing you want to do is to stop off and take a look around !! That is when you get stuck. Preview your turf, if possible, and commit. If it's soft & you're bogging down, stopping will guarantee it !!

3) If you get stopped/stuck....get off the gas !! Stopped is stopped, and there is a reason you're not moving forward anymore. Trying to rock it out or easing forward will do nothing more than dig you in further. I generally figure that a basic stick is worth about a half hour of digging. An axle-depth stick (easy, really easy to do in soft stuff), can be a half day affair !!

Re the 4wd vs the 2wd debate---there's places I've taken my old beat-up Wrangler that no 2wd vehicle will EVER make it to, let alone smell the downwind scent of.... Know your and your vehicle's limits, know your back-up plan (having one is smart), have sufficient survival/recovery gear on board always, and GO EXPLORE !!!

M

46 hits and no comments ??

Matt&Mutt - 5-5-2008 at 02:38 PM

No way !! I thought you Nomads were an opinionated bunch. Nobody assessing/criticizing/commenting on driving suggestions ???? No way !

elgatoloco - 5-5-2008 at 02:44 PM

48

Good points all.

When I get my F-250 Powerstroke stuck I usually look for a Toyota to pull me out. :biggrin:

vandenberg - 5-5-2008 at 02:51 PM

How about simply "don't drive on it" :?:

Gadget - 5-5-2008 at 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt&Mutt
No way !! I thought you Nomads were an opinionated bunch. Nobody assessing/criticizing/commenting on driving suggestions ???? No way !

OK, I'll bite on your shameless bump.

Your list is pretty general information for allot of us, and well received by those who will log it in the data base for later, I'm sure.

There are just a few, but not all I'm sure, items I would like to add to your list for clearing any said obstacle or soft terrain.

Massive speed
Massive horsepower
Massive hang time ie. altitude
Oh and Massive ego...no thats what got you stuck, skip that one. :cool:

Welcome to the board.

You don't have to look or ask for a bashing from anyone on this board. You'll get your share soon enough

pargo - 5-5-2008 at 02:55 PM

I was lurking around your thread all the while laughing my *** off because you brought back a fond memory for me. I'm kinda ( i was) embarrassed to admit it but i did every single thing you said not to do in your 3 rules of thumb and got stuck in the sand in a little known beach called Ligui in Baja Sur (wonder if it's still there nowadays). As you were pointing out the rocking, laying off the gas etc i was reliving that day. I was gung ho and green back then and i recall not really giving a damn about being stuck in my little beach in heaven.

mulegemichael - 5-5-2008 at 03:21 PM

Back in my early days in baja i found myself stuck on many occasions...always tried the dig, rip up plants, jack up vehicle, place under wheels, program.....i finally GOT it about twenty years ago; AIRDOWN!!....it works almost everytime.....good advise for folks that havent experienced deep, soft sand......good advise, mutt...er, matt....

Osprey - 5-5-2008 at 03:23 PM

About a month ago there was a similar thread wherein about 80 % of people who claimed they travelled several million miles, 2 wheel and 4 by in every kind of possible terrain were convinced it is a very bad idea to air down tires. That group, whoever they are, are out there right now laughing at your post. I'm not in that group.

Osprey...

Matt&Mutt - 5-5-2008 at 03:29 PM

That group, when they get back from their lengthy hike through the desert from their stranded vehicles, can laugh at anything they wish (they'll likely be a little delirious from the walkabout tour, anyways

. .... I've been stuck everywhere, from Africa to Brazil to Baja, and it's inevitably always been my stankin' fault...But I loved it !!!

Spot on !!

Matt&Mutt - 5-5-2008 at 04:30 PM

Brutha Nomad,

I don't know if it's a "guy" thing, or a gringo thing, but indeed there's always a consort that'd like nothing better than to haul your rig out of the muck for ya !!! Only problem is, is that they'd likely come across my sun-petrified body long long after I required a pull out, and long long before I'd withered away to nothing in the back-far !!!

At those particular times, folding shovels're nice....

M

bajajudy - 5-5-2008 at 04:38 PM

All of our vehicles have shovels...standard equipment.

Getting stuck happens if you have any sense of adventure and take off down any dirt road, lane, path, cow trail, etc that you see.

All of our vehicles have tarps for the side of the road mechanic thingie. I, of course, have never had to use one....but Jim has.

bancoduo - 5-5-2008 at 05:08 PM

Buy a RUBICON! STUCKY no mas.

Rubicon ??

Matt&Mutt - 5-5-2008 at 05:17 PM

Who makes the Rubicon ? Is that Hyundai, or Kia ??? Does it come with training wheels ??

Sharksbaja - 5-5-2008 at 05:31 PM

Yes.

Rubicon

Matt&Mutt - 5-5-2008 at 05:33 PM

Just teasing. I wish I had a newer rig, but my old Wrangler gets through whatever I (reasonably) aim it at. Usually.

Out of the Jungle micro.jpg - 36kB

bancoduo - 5-5-2008 at 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt&Mutt
Just teasing. I wish I had a newer rig, but my old Wrangler gets through whatever I (reasonably) aim it at. Usually.

Thanks for that. I was about to embarrass myself with a stupid GULL like comment. :lol:

Sharksbaja - 5-5-2008 at 06:28 PM

Yes, I recall some past threads addressing tire pressures. Generally speaking I'd have to say that I rarely air down. Certain elements usually dictate that. For example; sand road compactness and the physical condition of roads in washes or along beaches can change dramatically from season to season.
One of the biggest in terms of change are the races. They can really churn up the sand.

The trick is to be able to forecast or otherwise "read" the sand ahead. Knowing how the sand behaves and how your vehicle behaves and responds depends again on various factors.
Experience makes a whole lot of difference whether you should air down or not.

It pretty obvious to many of us when that time comes tho the ones that aren't get stuck more.

I miss the thrill of flying across sand that should you stop you could be stuck big time. Isn't that why we do this? :bounce:

kodiak - 5-5-2008 at 08:32 PM

Here is a victim I pulled out of the sand...camper and all

[Edited on 5-6-2008 by kodiak]

BAJA PICS 33.jpg - 42kB

BAJACAT - 5-5-2008 at 08:51 PM

What's that Kodiak a FORD.? you are pulling.?
Just kidding, I have got stuck alot times, and most of the time it was my fault.Most of the time is human error,and some times just plain ego,Im guilty of that one.We try to push are rigs to the max.Old saying of mine, "I don't need a second spare tire,I never get flats in BAJA",Oh boy I was wrong,some people outhere,know what Im talking about.
Welcome aboard.

PS. DON'T FORGET TO AIR DOWN,AND CARRY YOUR TRIPLE A CARD,iM SURE THE WILL FIND YOU IN BAJA.

David K - 5-6-2008 at 08:21 AM

Give us at least 24 hours to read the thread Matt! :biggrin:

Air pressure is EVERYTHING when it comes to deep sand... and anything can drive across deep sand if the tires are made to float.

Shell Island (and most any gulf beach) has the mix of sand and crushed sea shells that will swallow most vehicles that don't deflate.

4WD gives you a feeling of security, but locals tender to their nets drive 2WD trucks on the beach regularly. Many of you know the folks from Vista who drive their BIG (2WD) Motorhome onto the beach there, regularly.

Different tires require different air pressure for floatation!

The best sand tire is one with the least aggressive/ most highway style tread... The worst are the mud/rock tires with deep claws and stiff sidewalls. Case in point, my Cooper Discoverer STT agressive tread tires dug right into the sand... They needed to go to 10 psi to float. The stock BFGs (Rugged Trail TAs) and the tires I have now, Toyo A/T Open Country, float at 20 psi.

Next time you get stuck in the sand: Move the piled-up sand from the front of all four tires and DEFLATE until you see nice buldges in the sidewalls, even if you go to 10 psi or a bit less... and you will drive right out.

607 015r.JPG - 44kB

wsdunc - 5-6-2008 at 10:05 AM

Pargo,
You made me smile. Maybe 15 years ago we camped at the beach near ligui. Where we went you actually went past the town dump, but then continued a few hundred feet to a beautiful deserted beach. I was driving the Baja Beast, a 71 dually with a chassis mount camper (with a flip down rear patio and sliding glass doors in the back). My method was to get near the beach, turn around, and then reverse towards the beach. Once I got stuck that is where we stayed for the week, when it was time to go we figured out how to get unstuck. Scheduled the unsticking for early in the morning when it was cool :tumble:

bajalou - 5-6-2008 at 11:39 AM

Here is a link to a rather extensive article regarding tire pressure and footprint - good reading for anyone going off road in sand - beaches, washes, etc.

http://www.4x4now.com/sfjun96.htm

Sharksbaja - 5-6-2008 at 12:55 PM

Interesting Lou.

I don't believe that you can achieve the equivalent traction of 16(regularly inflated?) tires by 4 (underinflated) tires. That just seems a bit much imo.

Like I said, I air down as needed. I just need more log time! :bounce:

Hey Roy, what pressures did you use in the wash? Up that last hill?

Highway pressure

Matt&Mutt - 5-6-2008 at 01:09 PM

Also, it's unlikely that most people are driving around with the max allowable pressure in their tires. My Wrangler's got some squirrely emergency handling to start with, and there's just no way I'd be running 50 psi in my BFG A/T's unless I wanted to do some loopies on the freeway. Typically I run 30-32 cold pressure all the way around.

There's no noticeable bulging until you get below 20 psi, which is also around when you can detect an audible lessening of the sound of the escaping winds--takes me about a minute to get to 20 psi. Just a mild airdown makes the washboard a much more pleasant situation & will extend the life of both your dental work and your suspension significantly.

805gregg - 5-6-2008 at 01:29 PM

One of the things I learned early (1960's) in Baja, is to stop and walk the road before you get stuck. A little walk is better than alot of digging.

Gadget - 5-6-2008 at 01:36 PM

One common misconception of the "bulging" side wall that makes the tire float. This is showing you that the "contact" patch of the tread has lengthened, thus floating the tire, much like a track on a tractor does.

David K - 5-6-2008 at 06:08 PM

Yes, the buldging sidewall is not what you want to support the vehicle weight... but the max. wide footprint is.

It really works, no need to walk 20 miles to San Felipe for a tow truck!

Matt&Mutt - 5-6-2008 at 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Yes, the buldging sidewall is not what you want to support the vehicle weight... but the max. wide footprint is.

It really works, no need to walk 20 miles to San Felipe for a tow truck!

Walk 20 miles to San Felipe ?? That's why I've got my "emergency" bicycle strapped on the back of the Jeep !! Cept, when I backed into that cholla last week in Arizona I do believe I smoked the rear tire. Ok....guess walking it'll be !!

David K - 5-6-2008 at 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt&Mutt

Quote:

Photo by Amo Pescar in Valle Chico, 2-01

David K - 5-6-2008 at 06:22 PM

Photo of David Eidell's leg, Valle la Bocana, 7-01

kodiak - 5-6-2008 at 07:22 PM

I pulled 3 different people off of Playa Norte while I was there. The poor fellow in the Ford and fifthwheel camper, was surrounded by the high tide when he ran over to my site. I wish I could have gotten a picture about 40' back from where this was taken.....It was really sunk.

Another one, was a small rental car that was buried so bad, they could not open the doors! Water was actually lapping up to the trunk's lid. It was parked with the rearend of the car facing the water.

But, the best one, was a 4X4 Chevy Blazer S-10 that was in the process of trying to get his wave runner out of the surf once he had it on the trailer and hooked to his truck. He had really aggressive mud tires that buried his truck almost instantly. He had the attitude that spinning the tires at excessive speeds would eventually free his situation. That made for a real show, as he was throwing sand everywhere and cutting his front wheels back and forth. Throwing it into reverse and drive, over and over with his foot on the floor.

Stuck in the sand picture

kodiak - 5-6-2008 at 07:29 PM

He got a rash of ribbing for this stick.....his wife had an "emergency" of the lavatory kind, and he had to pull over "right now!!" All he had to dig with was an old frying pan. Lucky there was a road crew near by...great bunch of locals that would not accept any compensation for their trouble.

[Edited on 5-7-2008 by kodiak]

Sand Trap.jpg - 47kB

kodiak - 5-6-2008 at 07:31 PM

Opps...I meant for this to be under the "how not to get stuck thread"

Gadget - 5-6-2008 at 08:02 PM

Quote:

The tread is only as wide as it is. It cannot get any wider and is becoming deformed if the side walls are actually doing any lifting of the vehicle, which they don't.

If viewed from underneath, say through a glass surface, the contact length of the tread at say your average psi may be 4" long, front to back on the tread. Width will always be the same unless of course the tire is grossly overinflated which would cause the tread pattern to bulge in the middle and be narrower.

Now let air out of said properly infalted tire and you will see the tread width stay the same, but length front to rear, of the contact patch of the tread will go from say 4" at 35 psi to 8" at 15 psi. Thus it becomes more like a track on a dozer laying across the sand rather than pushing / rolling through it. You have now gone from driving on 4 tires to 8.

You now have an improved length of the tread, not width.

[Edited on 5-7-2008 by Gadget]

Barry A. - 5-6-2008 at 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gadget

Quote:

Translation: ------ tires with low air pressure go thru the sand better and tires with high pressure.

Moral: --------partially deflate tires when in the dirt.

barry :lol:

Sharksbaja - 5-7-2008 at 12:57 AM

and be careful of sharp or pointy objects at speed.

and bring a hi-lift jack with sand-friendly base and a spare.

and

and

whatever, who gives a rattsass anywaaaaaaaaaaay? Unless you get stuck that is. :lol: