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The Baja ?

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CaboRon - 5-23-2008 at 12:43 PM

:?:

More and more I am seeing the term "The Baja" to refer to all of BC and BCS ....
What do you think of this term .....

David K - 5-23-2008 at 01:13 PM

It depends if it is said by a Canadian or not! :biggrin:

As in the phrase, "I will be traveling on the Baja for 2 months" Yech!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK to me is when it means a feeling, like "The Baja experience is awesome"

OK also is 'The Baja' when used as an abbreviation for The Baja Peninsula... as in I'm heading down to the Baja for some camping... although I personally just say 'Baja' without 'the' in front.

Or, as an abbreviation for one of the Baja races, as in "I want to race the Baja".

It was my CB handle, and when CA plates increased to 7 characters in 1980: :lol:

capt. mike - 5-23-2008 at 01:31 PM

nothing wrong with it here............sorry Jimmy......... :saint:

i have been flying...."the baja" since 1980!

i also like to go to Old Mexico..... :lol:

Vince - 5-23-2008 at 02:21 PM

"THE" Baja is definatly a new way of saying it. Probably popularized by articles in magazines from the East . Most are used to saying just "Baja". Now they are interchangable altho "THE" is not as popular.

Pompano - 5-23-2008 at 02:27 PM

Hah...Vince, I can just see us sitting around the campfire conversations years ago ..actually a few decades now...and talking about 'the Baja'. Hoo-boy, old Blackjack would have spit some Beechnut in our eyes.

The term did go with racing, though...The Baja 500-1000, etc...plus our own, The Baja 17.

Other than that, though....

Thinking about it today, however....I think it fits with the new arrivals. It's their adventure now and they will give it their own nomenclature.

Just don't say it around my campfire....I have Beechnut.

p.s guess which 'The Dakota' is?

[Edited on 5-24-2008 by Pompano]

David K - 5-23-2008 at 02:29 PM

Jimmy Smith hated the term 'The Baja'! :lol:

Here was his logic, as illustrated by Dave Deal in Jimmy's book 'The Grinning Gargoyle Spills the Beans and other Yarns of Baja California' c2001 (available from www.mibaja.com):

The Baja Map-r.JPG - 23kB

Jimmy's Book

David K - 5-23-2008 at 02:31 PM

Copy of Jimmy-r.JPG - 40kB

Paulina - 5-23-2008 at 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vince
"THE" Baja is definatly a new way of saying it. Probably popularized by articles in magazines from the East . Most are used to saying just "Baja". Now they are interchangable altho "THE" is not as popular.

I have to disagree with you on it being the "new way of saying it." The phrase has been around for a while, perhaps the saying is recycled every now and then. The reason I say this is because both "Old Mexico" boys, Don Jimmy Smith and Fred Hoctor didn't think to kindly of the phrase, "THE Baja" and it's been a few years now since they've passed. Just my two pesos.

P<*)))><

BajaGeoff - 5-23-2008 at 02:38 PM

Nice DK! That just about sums it up perfectly!

David K - 5-23-2008 at 02:41 PM

Yah, we used 'The Baja' back in the 70's all the time... long before we ever heard Canadians saying it. High Karate Aftershave had a commercial showing an eskimo running down the dirt main Baja road, passing broken race buggies, prospectors, cactus... saying that their new aftershave kept the eskimo so cool, it was the aftershave that 'BEAT THE BAJA'!

The Baja 1000 was a pretty exciting race in the early days, when they raced Hwy. 1 from Ensenada south... and the pavement ended before Colonet.

Oso - 5-23-2008 at 03:30 PM

Like Jimmy, I've always hated it. :fire:

I'm sure those who use it out of ignorance do not intend disrespect. But, as any Ukrainian or Argentinian can tell you, it is a diminutive which affords less respect than that due a sovereign state, the implication being it's "only" a geographic region. In other words, it's an insult.

Example: My wife is from Hidalgo. There is a beautiful region covering parts of Hidalgo, Vera Cruz and San Luis Potosi known as "La Huasteca". It's pefectly OK to say "The Huasteca" because it is a region. But nobody says "El Hidalgo". It's a state. It's just not done.

[Edited on 5-23-2008 by Oso]

[Edited on 5-23-2008 by Oso]

mtgoat666 - 5-23-2008 at 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
:?:

More and more I am seeing the term "The Baja" to refer to all of BC and BCS ....
What do you think of this term .....

"baja" is an adjective. More logical to refer to it as "the baja"...

backninedan - 5-23-2008 at 05:44 PM

"The North Dakata?"

Don Alley - 5-23-2008 at 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by backninedan
"The North Dakata?"

We came down from Flathead County( Montana).

The Flathead? Yep.

I don't care what people call this place, it's some of their real estate investment inspired descriptions and blatant name changes that bug me.

"Bay of Dreams," anyone?

Sign on Loreto's newest Real Estate office: "Nature As You Always Dreamed It"

:biggrin:

Pompano - 5-23-2008 at 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by backninedan
"The North Dakata?"

well dan...close enough.

factoid: And...'The Dakota' is also a luxury apartment building in NYC's Upper West Side where John Lennon lived..and where he was killed by a gunman 28 years ago.

woody with a view - 5-23-2008 at 06:38 PM

THE baja?

WTF??????

Paula - 5-23-2008 at 06:54 PM

On David's map we can clearly see the Baja Peninsula and the Yucatan Peninsula. People often say the Yucatan too.

But just as Yucatan is the name of the state on that peninsula, so Baja is a place unto itself, part of Mexico but separate, consisting of two states.

So to me, Baja is Baja, Yucatan is Yucatan, and in both cases you would use "the" only when including the word peninsula.

factoid: No man is an island, he's a peninsula-- according to Frank Zappa :dudette:

Santiago - 5-23-2008 at 07:09 PM

Ah - my dad hated "Suzie Creamcheeze' - which, of course, meant I played "Hot Rats" every chance I got.

bobw - 5-23-2008 at 07:10 PM

I'll chime in... If I'm talking to non- travellers, I'll say "THE Baja" so they might have a frame of reference; people that I think will understand, I just say "Baja" or the rare few "La Paz".... the more you know me, the less I have to explain...

Eli - 5-23-2008 at 07:55 PM

The Baja Peninsula works o.k. for me. Down in Baja also works fine. "I'm from Baja" is comfortable as is "Yo Soy de Baja".

Referring to Baja as The Baja doesn't really work for me, but it wouldn't make me cringe if I heard it, or send me into a tissey fit. But it certainly always brings the Ol Man to mind, and a chuckle along with it, it was after all one of Don Jimmy's favorite pet peeve.

Gadget - 5-23-2008 at 08:16 PM

Here's my list.

You pick which one fits your mind set.

List A: we are going to...
the mall
the yacht
the plastic surgeon
the broadway show
the polo match
the Baja
etc.

List B: we are going to
Walmart
Costco
work
school
surf
shoot our shotguns
raid a polo match
Baja
etc.

Boy I'm going to p.o. some folks with this one. Sorry, I am bad some times :saint:

David K - 5-23-2008 at 08:46 PM

Why not... as with

The Sudan

The Sahara

The Congo

:yes:

Baja is so awesome and well known, it no longer needs to be 'attached' to the word 'California'! Thus we have The Baja!! :bounce:

Oso - 5-23-2008 at 09:09 PM

You're allowed to call it whatever you want on English language websites. Just be prepared for icy stares in other circumstances.

Sharksbaja - 5-23-2008 at 09:47 PM

Quote:

Like Jimmy, I've always hated it. :fire:

Finally......... a weakness!

Menolikeiteither.

Von - 5-23-2008 at 09:55 PM

Yo soy de Baja... mmm Who cares......

I call it (MI Patio)......hahahaha..

Packoderm - 5-23-2008 at 10:34 PM

I've always referred to Yucatan as "the Yucatan" because that is how I've heard it said most often. I've always referred to Baja and Baja Sur as "Baja" because it would not be trendy to do otherwise. Now that I think about it, "the Baja" sounds pretty low-key and unpretentious. I'd switch to referring to it that way, but I couldn't pull it off without it feeling contrived. I've always referred to Havana, Cuba as Havana, but I've seen it on Spanish language maps as La Habana - for what that's worth. I really, really doubt that some people actively concoct up ways to disrespect places and then do so by putting "the" in front of the places' names. Baja, translated to lower, is a region, so I highly doubt there ever was ever a Sr. Baja to disrespect anyway. If anything, foreigners, such as Canadians, using the name "the Baja" makes it sound like just another place to explore rather than a name of grand reverence. If you think about it, Bajas North and South is plural, and thus it would be logical to refer to both of them in a plural sense which would make grammatical sense to place the article "the" in front of the name antecedent in name to both places. It probably took several gringos sitting around to determine that any of this is worth discussing, but it is hard to imagine that it is worth flexing one's sphincter if it the name is said by somebody in a way that is different from what one is accustomed. A favorite quote of mine; "No b-tching in the Baja."

capt. mike - 5-24-2008 at 08:08 AM

ah........the magic of Frank!!! any time he can be included in discourse i know i have found new friends.
who of you saw ZPZ this past 2 years? was it not splenditious??

oh, to make it kosher here......i hope the Dweez plays the baja one day. :lol:

shari - 5-24-2008 at 08:24 AM

In Spanish many many things and even people are referred to as THE this or that...so I figure this way of calling the baja came from the spanish way to describe things...here we say for example....I'm going to call Sirena...voy hablar La Sirena. And seeing as Baja is a peninsula, we refer to it as a thing...I love the Baja (peninsula)...me encanta la Baja! It's a term of endearment for a thing we all love.
Please dont HATE!

Oso - 5-24-2008 at 08:30 AM

Ukraine or "the Ukraine"?

by
Andrew Gregorovich

THE NAME UKRAINE, which first appeared in the historical chronicles in 1187, has been common in the English language for almost 350 years. In the earliest years it appeared without the definite article "the" but in this century the definite article increasingly preceded the name Ukraine.

First of all we might note that the Ukrainian language has no articles so this is not a factor except indirectly. The reason for this is that many Ukrainian immigrant scholars, due to their imperfect knowledge of English, used the form "the Ukraine" in their books thus helping to perpetuate this usage.

Does English grammar require the definite article the before Ukraine? Ukraine is the name of an independent country. There are only two groups of countries which require the article in English: Those with plural names such as the United States or the Netherlands. The others have names with adjectival or compound forms which require the article, such as the United Kingdom, the Dominion of Canada, or the Ukrainian SSR.

English grammar does not require a definite article before the names of singular countries such as England, Canada or Ukraine.

Geographical regions such as the Arctic, the Atlantic, the North, the West, and the prairies all require the definite article, but these are not countries. Since 1917 Ukraine has had very definite borders so it cannot be regarded as merely a region. Some people have mistakenly thought that Ukraine is a general word meaning "the borderland;' "the steppes" or "the prairies;' which would require the article. A few neanderthal writers in the past have even promoted "the Ukraine" to reflect the original meaning "the borderland" in order to diminish the international political stature of Ukraine. They betrayed their ignorance of Ukraine, or their bias against it, with this usage. See for example, the view of Robert 0. Grover in the U.S. News & World Report (Dec. 9, 1991).

Is there any other reason to use the definite article in English with Ukraine? Usage has been suggested as a reason but this cannot be accepted today since the majority of books and newspapers do not use it.

For example, the authoritative five volume Encyclopedia of Ukraine edited by Danylo Struk and published by the University of Toronto Press does not use it. The article is not used by such prominent publications as The Ukrainian Quarterly (New York), Ukrainian Review (London, England), Forum Ukrainian Review (Scranton, Pa.), Ukrainian Voice (Winnipeg), Ukrainian Echo (Toronto), Journal of Ukrainian Studies (Toronto), Ukrainian News (Edmonton) or News From Ukraine (Kiev). In fact, today there is no Ukrainian periodical in English which uses the article although Harvard Ukrainian Studies once forced it on scholarly contributors.

But what about the regular daily press in the USA, Canada and England? Even The New York Times (which once required it in its Style Guide) does not use it now. Neither do The Times (London), The Economist (London), Washington Post, TIME, Newsweek or Maclean's. News services such as Canadian Press, Reuters, CNN and Associated Press do not use the article. When the December 1991 referendum confirmed the independence of Ukraine the White House in Washington, D.C. officially announced that it would discontinue use of the definite article before the name Ukraine.

Even the computer age has ruled that "the" Ukraine is wrong in English. Gram-mat-ik, the very popular grammar and style checker for computers by Reference Software International of San Francisco, uses Ukraine without the article and labels "the Ukraine" as a mistake of grammar.

There appears to be virtually no grammatical or logical reason to use the definite article before the name Ukraine. But it is still encountered occasionally because of habit or because the writer is careless or ignorant about Ukraine. Sir Bernard Pares the eminent English historian of Russia suggested that "the Ukraine" came from French usage. We say Ia France, le Canada and l'Ukraine in French but not 'the France; 'the Canada' or 'the Ukraine' in the English language. The definite article the does not add anything to the meaning or clarity when used before the proper noun Ukraine.

Now, the exception to the rule. Yes, it is possible for "the Ukraine" to be correct in English but it is a very rare usage in apposition to contrast the past with the present. For example, one could correctly say, "The America of George Washington is not the America of Bill Clinton" as well as "The Ukraine of Shevchenko is not the Ukraine of Kravchuk."

We may conclude then, that the use of the definite article in English before the name Ukraine is awkward, incorrect and superfluous. Writers who care about good style in their English grammar and the correctness of their language will always avoid the use of "the Ukraine" and use only the simpler and correct "Ukraine."

BTW, re: Gram-mat-ic software. I once had that on a PC and once I typed an essay with the term Homo Sapien. The software told me to avoid derogatory language.

[Edited on 5-24-2008 by Oso]

[Edited on 5-24-2008 by Oso]

Don Alley - 5-24-2008 at 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paula

factoid: No man is an island, he's a peninsula-- according to Frank Zappa :dudette:

Zappa? Nope.

"A Small Package of Value Will Come To You, Shortly"
Jefferson Airplane, After Bathing At Baxter's

:coolup:

Don Alley - 5-24-2008 at 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
In Spanish many many things and even people are referred to as THE this or that...so I figure this way of calling the baja came from the spanish way to describe things...here we say for example....I'm going to call Sirena...voy hablar La Sirena. And seeing as Baja is a peninsula, we refer to it as a thing...I love the Baja (peninsula)...me encanta la Baja! It's a term of endearment for a thing we all love.
Please dont HATE!

The Donald

But not me, some other guy with a place in the baja. :lol:

Paula - 5-24-2008 at 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley

Quote:

Originally posted by Paula

factoid: No man is an island, he's a peninsula-- according to Frank Zappa :dudette:

Zappa? Nope.

"A Small Package of Value Will Come To You, Shortly"
Jefferson Airplane, After Bathing At Baxter's

:coolup:

Oops! I was mistaken.

But one thing is for certain:

I am your sofa and your are my chrome dinette :yes:

Ah...

Pompano - 5-24-2008 at 09:36 AM

- (Small).jpg - 38kB

Paula - 5-24-2008 at 10:38 AM

Pompano,

I thought my sanity might be questioned for that one :lol:

Sofa/Chrome dinette is a Zappa song. Another classic from the same album: "She Was the Daughter of a Wealthy Florentine Pogen"

I emphasized the word the here to avoid being called a hijacker-- now back to the Baja, or Baja as I would sy it

toneart - 5-24-2008 at 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
:?:

More and more I am seeing the term "The Baja" to refer to all of BC and BCS ....
What do you think of this term .....

"baja" is an adjective. More logical to refer to it as "the baja"...

This is correct if you were to follow "The Baja" with a noun such as Penninsula. Not correct if you just leave it dangling like Canadian syntax. (I don't know whether I made a simile or a smiley). :spingrin:

toneart - 5-24-2008 at 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oso
Ukraine or "the Ukraine"?

Edited on 5-24-2008 by Oso]

[Edited on 5-24-2008 by Oso]

(I deleted the whole quote to prevent someone else from suffering the same fate that has befallen me):

Oso, you are absolutely correct, however, after reading the whole thing Ukrained my neck when my chin hit my chest. :lol:

Vince - 5-24-2008 at 05:42 PM

Clearly, the question of THE has touched a nerve in many of us. I for one always thought it was affected to say "The Baja", so I never say it. I have always referred to it ,as most do, as "Baja" since I first started going there in the '40's. Only since the '70's or '80's did the new term emerge.

UnoMas - 5-24-2008 at 06:47 PM

Slow times on Nomads huh? :biggrin:

toneart - 5-24-2008 at 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UnoMas
Slow times on Nomads huh? :biggrin:

Uh-h-h-h-h-h-h-h.........................Yup! :yawn:

capt. mike - 5-25-2008 at 08:31 AM

Paula - quite simply put - you ROCK girl!!

hope to meet you some time and we can listen to to Frank on the baja..... :lol:

Bruce R Leech - 5-25-2008 at 09:19 AM

how about.............. the United States of America.

no big deal right :light:

what I don't like is when people come here and make up there own names for places like Scorpion Bay. :?:

that sucks

[Edited on 5-25-2008 by Bruce R Leech]

Oso - 5-25-2008 at 10:13 AM

The United States is correct because it's plural, as is Los Estados Unidos Mexicanos, the correct full name of Mexico, whereas "El Mexico" and "The America" are incorrect usages. If one were referring to both BC and BCS in the same sentence, it would be correct to say "The Baja Californias" or even "The Bajas", just as "Los Cabos" is ok.

Barry A. - 5-25-2008 at 11:30 AM

my 2 cents------

I believe that "the Baja" arose when folks were trying to impress their presumably more timid friends of how macho they were, in that they "went to the Baja" because it was thought to be a wild and wooley place that only the courages and daring would dare visit------THE BAJA------like it was forbidden ground reserved only for the adventurous.

I remember that I sorta promoted that idea because I did not want every Tom, Dick, and Eloise coming down and crowding me out of the best beach camp spots. :lol:

Probably Nomad "Vince" thought I was "affected", and maybe he was right. :lol:

(but of course I personally NEVER used that term)

Barry

bent-rim - 5-25-2008 at 11:37 AM

I would consider anyone who used the term "The Baja" a rookie.

Barry A. - 5-25-2008 at 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bent-rim
I would consider anyone who used the term "The Baja" a rookie.

-----define "rookie" please. (tho this does NOT apply to me, of course)

wilderone - 5-27-2008 at 08:46 AM

"The Baja" is simply meaningless. "The Lower"?? Wha???
I've noticed on the ThornTree travel forum that some people are calling California, "Cali." I hate that!!!

bajaguy - 5-27-2008 at 08:53 AM

Cloudy and rain here in "the" Carson City. I think I will drive to "the" Reno and see if the weather is better. If not, I may take a trip to "the" Sacramento or even "the" San Francisco.

Foe sunshine, I will probably just go to Baja!!!!

Pompano - 5-27-2008 at 09:00 AM

..and this?...Kalifornia.

Enough already.

"Every individual or national degeneration is immediately revealed by a directly proportional degradation in language."

Joseph-Marie de Maistre la Frog 1753-1821...wow, wadda guy.

DK- I love it when I can correct you...

thebajarunner - 5-27-2008 at 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Yah, we used 'The Baja' back in the 70's all the time... long before we ever heard Canadians saying it. High Karate Aftershave had a commercial showing an eskimo running down the dirt main Baja road, passing broken race buggies, prospectors, cactus... saying that their new aftershave kept the eskimo so cool, it was the aftershave that 'BEAT THE BAJA'!

The Baja 1000 was a pretty exciting race in the early days, when they raced Hwy. 1 from Ensenada south... and the pavement ended before Colonet.

David, the race you describe, "Ensenada down the pavement to Camalu" was not the Baja 1000.
It was the Mexican 1000.
Come on man, you knew that....
Just joshing you,
but you will remember that Ed Pearlman would not give the name to SCORE or the Baja Sports Committee (may they rest in peace)

****Sorry to chime in so late with this, we just got back from the Coca Cola 600 where our RGordon again finished dead last***

jack - 5-27-2008 at 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
"The Baja" is simply meaningless. "The Lower"?? Wha???

Hmm, let's see..."I'm going to The Lower". That doesn't seem right. Now lets try "I'm going Lower". That doesn't seem right either, it sounds like something from a porno movie.:Lil:

DENNIS - 5-27-2008 at 01:37 PM

Who cares? I'm going to the Sharkys and drink the beer. Actually, a few.

Cypress - 5-27-2008 at 01:46 PM

Call it what you want.

It's neat country. :bounce:

ElFaro - 5-27-2008 at 02:34 PM

The Baja is what it is...The Baja. The "the" in The Baja gives The Baja added character.
It's like my recipe for "The Baja" Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwich incl. here.
You simply cannot enjoy the real taste of "The Baja Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwich" without being on "The Baja".

1 jar of Peanut Butter
1 jar of Jelly (Your choice of flavor)
Small loaf of bread
Spreading knife
Knapkins for spills
Bag
Car

Place peanut butter, jelly, bread, and knapkins in bag.
Put bag in car.
Drive car across border from U.S. into The Baja, Mexico.
Once on The Baja, Mexico pull over and park on the side of the road.
Open jars and spread peanut butter and jelly on two slices of bread.
Make bread slices into sandwich and proceed to eat.
Enjoy...

Barry A. - 5-27-2008 at 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ElFaro
The Baja is what it is...The Baja. The "the" in The Baja gives The Baja added character.
It's like my recipe for "The Baja" Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwich incl. here.
You simply cannot enjoy the real taste of "The Baja Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwich" without being on "The Baja".

1 jar of Peanut Butter
1 jar of Jelly (Your choice of flavor)
Small loaf of bread
Spreading knife
Knapkins for spills
Bag
Car

Place peanut butter, jelly, bread, and knapkins in bag.
Put bag in car.
Drive car across border from U.S. into The Baja, Mexico.
Once on The Baja, Mexico pull over and park on the side of the road.
Open jars and spread peanut butter and jelly on two slices of bread.
Make bread slices into sandwich and proceed to eat.
Enjoy...

Yep!!!! Barry

wilderone - 5-27-2008 at 03:17 PM

PB&J? with Knapkins? Baja amateur. tortillas, queso, salsa. that's a Baja California sandwich.

David K - 5-28-2008 at 07:43 AM

Yes, Thebajarunner... It was The Mexican 1000... but we all called it The Baja 1000 even before NORRA was outted.

Even the Baja 500 was NOT the 'Baja 500' when SCORE started running the shorter race, it was The Baja Internacional, starting in July, 1974 when Mickey Thompson convinced the Mexicans to let his new organization run Baja races.... eventually changing to the traditional early June date after BSC crashed as an organization following their '74 Baja 500 race in June.

SCORE continued calling it the Baja Internacional was because of Ed Pearlman holding onto the trademarke name 'Baja 500'. Everyone still called it the Baja 500 and not 'Baja Internacional', as well.

Eventaully, Pearlman and SCORE came to an agreement and allowed SCORE to call the short race 'Baja 500' officially.

[Edited on 5-28-2008 by David K]

toneart - 5-28-2008 at 11:09 AM

Purists would never say "The Baja"! Not the old timers and certainly not residents. And for that matter, not the informed travelers.

There are those however, who don't care to be correct. It is not important to them. That's OK too.

"The Baja..." is incorrectly used as a noun (whereas it is really an adjective, dependant on a noun).

If you insist on saying "The Baja" it is screaming for an answer:
The Baja what :?:

The Nomad (me) is cranky this morning.
:rolleyes:

elgatoloco - 5-28-2008 at 11:16 AM

I will stop calling it "The Baja" when people stop saying that "The REAL Baja" starts at El Rosario or some other made up location other then the ACTUAL border. :mad:

tripledigitken - 5-28-2008 at 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by elgatoloco
I will stop calling it "The Baja" when people stop saying that "The REAL Baja" starts at El Rosario or some other made up location other then the ACTUAL border. :mad:

You really don't use the term "The Baja" do you El Gato? :smug:

Ken

jack - 5-28-2008 at 12:08 PM

We should be calling Baja California the same as what the Mexican people who live there call it. Do they shorten the name to Baja or The Baja (Le or La Baja)? Or do they use the full name Baja California? Can anyone on the forum answer these questions?

toneart - 5-28-2008 at 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jack
We should be calling Baja California the same as what the Mexican people who live there call it. Do they shorten the name to Baja or The Baja (Le or La Baja)? Or do they use the full name Baja California? Can anyone on the forum answer these questions?

B.C.N. = Baja California Norte,
or
B.C.S. = Baja California Sur

toneart - 5-28-2008 at 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTI8
When I am talking to someone in English not familiar with Baja California I will say
“I am going to Baja California.” If speaking to someone in English who is familiar with Baja California I will say “I am going to Baja.”

Conversely, when speaking to someone in Spanish who is not familiar with Baja California I will say “Me voy a Baja California.” If speaking to someone in Spanish who is familiar with Baja California I will say “Me voy a La Baja.”

When I say “La Baja” in Spanish I say it with love and affection (Carino y Amor) like I am talking about a woman I am in love with. I have never heard anyone give a “Rats Behind” how It was stated until this thread came up.

[Edited on 5-28-2008 by ELINVESTI8]

This works for me. :yes:

Cypress - 5-28-2008 at 02:09 PM

Me too :bounce:

Packoderm - 5-28-2008 at 02:18 PM

Quote:

Wow, now I'd like to change my vote from "No opinion" to "Love it."

There is no B.C.N.

thebajarunner - 5-28-2008 at 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart

Quote:

B.C.N. = Baja California Norte,
or
B.C.S. = Baja California Sur

If you are in the Southern half it is properly called B.C.S.

In the Northerly half it is simply (and only) Baja California.

tripledigitken - 5-28-2008 at 04:38 PM

Quote:

If you are in the Southern half it is properly called B.C.S.

In the Northerly half it is simply (and only) Baja California.

Or......................as some would say " The Baja California" :lol:

toneart - 5-28-2008 at 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thebajarunner

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart

Quote:

B.C.N. = Baja California Norte,
or
B.C.S. = Baja California Sur

If you are in the Southern half it is properly called B.C.S.

In the Northerly half it is simply (and only) Baja California.

We in the southern portion of Baja need to make the distinction, even if we have to make it up(B.C.N.).

cool response... I like it

thebajarunner - 5-28-2008 at 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart

Quote:

Originally posted by thebajarunner

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart

Quote:

B.C.N. = Baja California Norte,
or
B.C.S. = Baja California Sur

If you are in the Southern half it is properly called B.C.S.

In the Northerly half it is simply (and only) Baja California.

We in the southern portion of Baja need to make the distinction, even if we have to make it up(B.C.N.).

We in B.C.A. (as in Alta)
can agree with that distinction

Oso - 5-28-2008 at 07:56 PM

You can call it whateevr you expat gringos want to call it but officially it's BC and BCS. There is officially no such state as Baja California Norte.

[Edited on 5-29-2008 by Oso]

David K - 5-28-2008 at 07:58 PM

Antonio of Baja Cactus says it perfectly fine to call it 'La Baja' (when I questioned his use of that term) and he has in some of his literature... That's a Mexican from Baja, with a travel business in Baja...

LA BAJA 1968 - NORRA MEXICAN 1000

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-28-2008 at 09:04 PM

[Edited on 5-30-2008 by ELINVESTI8]

Packoderm - 5-28-2008 at 11:06 PM

Maybe we will hear the name Baja used in a song. For instance, I didn't know how to pronounce New Orleans until I heard from a song that it rhymes with evergreens.

Pompano - 5-29-2008 at 02:21 PM

Quote:

Exactamente, yo tambien. I awoke needing a mission..and read this thread. (Meaning, it's too damn windy here to be out on the Cortez fishing!) I got to thinking..What would my Mulege amigos say about this..if anything? Whether one should say Baja...The Baja ... or Baja California Sur...or Baja Norte...la Baja...gringolandia..opps, not that one.

Anyway, I decided A POLL was my excuse to go into town this morning..plus I could have breakfast at Scottys. Later, on the scene in Mulege, I went about my shopping and asked many friends what THEY commonly said when describing and yakking about this 'Baja' place where we all live..Mulege.

Here's a rundown on 18 random locals who agreed to take the question poll: (They are used to me now, and seldom get scared anymore.)

1 - Ramon - tours and hot dogs
2 - Pancho - grocery store owner said..(my translation)...Es más común decir Baja California Sur.
3 - Bart (Jungla owner)
4 - Demos (zocalo tacos)
5 - Koki (restaurant owner)
6 - Antonio (Ramon's carnitas)
7 - Ignacio (taxi #19 - my ride home at times)
8 - Manuel (grocery store)
9 - Ranulto (mariachi player)
10 - Claudia (La Tienda)
11 - Miguel (La Tienda)
12 - Ruben (pharmacy)
13 - Saul (Saul's groceries)
14 - Lupe (checkout)
15 - Zulema (construction mgt.)
16 - Carmen (housekeeper)
17 - Areli (grocery store)
18 - Lorena (carnitas)

I asked all a hypothetical question...like when a Mulegeno was asking a fellow countryman to: "Come visit me in ___?"

17 of the above persons said Baja California Sur would be how they say it.

None said ...Baja. (That should tell you something.)

Only one solitary person said La Baja is okay.....but you have to know Miguel has a wry sense of humor. Claudia said he means, 'Come visit me in the Lower Region.'

[Edited on 5-30-2008 by Pompano]

-.jpg - 49kB

DENNIS - 5-29-2008 at 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
the Cortez

OHMYGOD..gasp...choke...gasp again.....
Do my eyes and ears deceive me or....gasp...
That's it. I'm going to Sharkys. I can't take any more.

Pompano - 5-29-2008 at 02:35 PM

yup, Dennis...it is now official...the Cortez. The end of an era is at hand.

DENNIS - 5-29-2008 at 02:39 PM

Nothing is forever, is it, Roger.

Oso - 5-29-2008 at 03:59 PM

This is definitely a subject worth getting really drunk and fighting over.

CaboRon - 5-29-2008 at 05:22 PM

It has been a lot of fun watching this thread ...

toneart - 5-29-2008 at 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oso
This is definitely a subject worth getting really drunk and fighting over.

Put up your longnecks and we'll knock 'em down! :lol:

(I don't think we can say the same about cans). :no:

Pompano - 5-29-2008 at 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart

Quote:

Originally posted by Oso
This is definitely a subject worth getting really drunk and fighting over.

Put up your longnecks and we'll knock 'em down! :lol:

(I don't think we can say the same about cans). :no:

Okay, Dennis, toneart..Oso. Who knows the words to the song..'The Baja?' We are ready to improvise!

-.jpg - 44kB

THE TITLE IS "CUIDA LA BAJA." THE MAN SAYS "LA BAJA" A COUPLE OF TIMES.

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-29-2008 at 07:17 PM

[Edited on 5-30-2008 by ELINVESTI8]

Pompano - 5-29-2008 at 07:19 PM

Muchas Gracias!

toneart - 5-29-2008 at 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart

Quote:

Originally posted by Oso
This is definitely a subject worth getting really drunk and fighting over.

Put up your longnecks and we'll knock 'em down! :lol:

(I don't think we can say the same about cans). :no:

Okay, Dennis, toneart..Oso. Who knows the words to the song..'The Baja?' We are ready to improvise!

I know the chorus: (sung to the tune, La Paloma)-

"Ai yi yi yi yiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii, La Baaa-jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Ai yi yi yi yi yi yaiyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy (take a breath , then a swig) La Ba-jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!" :bounce:

Uh............oh oh.............. :barf:

elgatoloco - 5-29-2008 at 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken

Quote:

You really don't use the term "The Baja" do you El Gato? :smug:

Ken

That depends. Where do you say the "REAL" Baja starts? :smug:

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-30-2008 at 05:10 AM

Toneart you are a great composer. I love the song :lol:

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
I know the chorus: (sung to the tune, La Paloma)-

"Ai yi yi yi yiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii, La Baaa-jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Ai yi yi yi yi yi yaiyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy (take a breath , then a swig) La Ba-jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!" :bounce:

Uh............oh oh.............. :barf:

POMPANO AND FRIEND SINGING TONEART'S NEW LA BAJA SONG

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-30-2008 at 05:46 AM

Pompano sorry for hijacking your photo but I could not resist. :lol:

A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY NEVER HURTS

Marla Daily - 5-30-2008 at 06:38 AM

New Spain's province of California was divided into Alta California and Baja California on May 19, 1773 near San Juan Bautista Creek by Fray Francisco Palóu. A marker is erected in the place where the dividing committee began the measurements for the province's partition. The marker is behind the Misión San Miguel Arcángel de la Frontera, near Ensenada, Baja California.

Translated into English, the inscription on the marker reads:
San Juan Bautista Creek (Crespi, May 1769) This was the starting point for the setting of the first international division line between Old or Lower California (Dominicans) and New or Upper California (Franciscans) five leagues to the north (Valley of the Medanos) being established by: Priest Francisco Palou on 19 August 1773 (Mojonera of Palou) in compliance with the instructions put forth on the April 7 1772 Concordato.

Territory of Baja California:
A former Spanish/Mexican territory from 1804 until 1931 which comprised the whole peninsula of Baja California.

1821: Mexico gains independence from Spain. Spain's Alta California and Baja California become Mexican.

1850: Alta California becomes the state of California, USA (as a result of the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo)

1930: Baja California, MX is further divided into Northern and Southern territories.

1952: The North Territory of Baja California becomes the 29th state of Mexico, Baja California. The southern portion, below 28°N, remains a federally administered territory.

1974: The South Territory of Baja California becomes the 31st state, Baja California Sur. (This because of the completion of the highway in 1973.)

Geographically, historically, and factually speaking, there is no such place as "the Baja."

Accuracy vs. sloppy slang— YOUR CHOICE.

David K - 5-30-2008 at 07:07 AM

'The Baja' ... it's more than a place... it's an attitude, a feeling, an emotion... like love! :saint:

AH "LA BAJA" COMO LA AMO CON TODO MI CORAZON Y ALMA. CASI IGUAL COMO AMO A MAMA ESPINOZA.

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-30-2008 at 07:44 AM

Que viva el "Accuracy" y el "Sloppy Slang." Hay algo para todos. :lol:

[Edited on 5-30-2008 by ELINVESTI8]

Pompano - 5-30-2008 at 09:11 AM

Elinvest18, I like it! Gracias again.

I'll copy your lyrics photo and send it to my friend, Joe. He'll get quite a kick out of it.

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-30-2008 at 10:04 AM

toneart - 5-30-2008 at 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
'The Baja' ... it's more than a place... it's an attitude, a feeling, an emotion... like love! :saint:

Ahhh La Baja, Kumbaya! Como amor, que sera, sera!

Vince - 5-30-2008 at 11:08 AM

Roger- I recognize Joe on your couch. He's quite the musician, I have been to several of his jazz concerts in SD. Very entertaining. Can he say THE Baja in Czech?

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-30-2008 at 03:14 PM

Skipjack Joe - 5-30-2008 at 03:38 PM

"Tengo mucho hambre para un hombre"

Pompano - 5-30-2008 at 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vince
Roger- I recognize Joe on your couch. He's quite the musician, I have been to several of his jazz concerts in SD. Very entertaining. Can he say THE Baja in Czech?

Vince, I have some great photos taken about 4 years ago in the Gaslight district, SD. Joe and some other jazz player buds. Great music and fine company.

All I can recall from Joe talking about Baja that night was his usual comment about Baja life...teorie zamstnaneckého ehuštní!! or something like that. Pretty sure he would not call it THE Baja, though. Also a good hand at chess, his moves are wonders to behold. He has quite a history behind him.

[Edited on 5-30-2008 by Pompano]

DENNIS - 5-30-2008 at 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
"Tengo mucho hambre para un hombre"

[edited by Hose B]
Sorry Igor....No gay solicitations allowed. We're gonna have to dump your above post when we have time. Maybe tomorrow.......or later. You don't mind, do you?

toneart - 5-30-2008 at 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
"Tengo mucho hambre para un hombre"

[edited by Hose B]
Sorry Igor....No gay solicitations allowed. We're gonna have to dump your above post when we have time. Maybe tomorrow.......or later. You don't mind, do you?

Lol edit added by Hose (can you) C.

Skipjack Joe - 5-30-2008 at 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
"Tengo mucho hambre para un hombre"

[edited by Hose B]
Sorry Igor....No gay solicitations allowed. We're gonna have to dump your above post when we have time. Maybe tomorrow.......or later. You don't mind, do you?

The reference was to the man-eater. A clever play on words that went south. Ouch!

The Polls Have Closed

CaboRon - 6-1-2008 at 06:20 PM

Well, this was indead a lively discussion ... The results of the poll are :

I like it / I love it 32 votes

I hate it 44 votes

Neutral 12 votes

Not a definitive result ....

But, a common thread came through, and that was the love and passion for Baja California whatever you choose to call it.

Thanks for particapating, And I want you to know because of the incredable response with over thirty nine hundred views and over one hundred ten posts ..... I won first prize this week and Doug and Hose A, in a private ceremony this afternoon, presented me with a brand new toaster oven !!

Thanks guys,

CaboRon

[Edited on 6-3-2008 by CaboRon]

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