BajaNomad - Ow-Ow-Ow-----OUCH!!

Ow-Ow-Ow-----OUCH!!

Capt. George - 6-9-2008 at 11:43 AM

Just got my MRI and the results:

A large herniated disc L4-L5

Further info: Neuro Foraminal Pinching

Any of my fellow Nomads dealt with anything similar to this?? :light:

App't with Neurosurgeon on Thursday..gotta get fixed up and head home to Abreojos........SOOOOOONN!

Ken Bondy - 6-9-2008 at 12:06 PM

George
My sympathies. I had the same thing, large herniated disc L4-L5 (1/2" bulge pressing directly on the sciatic nerve). Pain was excruciating, could hardly walk. After unsuccessful treatment with chiropractic, accupuncture, epidural injections (3), I finally had a laminectomy in 2003. The operation was completely successful, I have never had a recurrance. I had a GREAT neurosurgeon!
++Ken++

postholedigger - 6-9-2008 at 12:35 PM

I have 3 herniated discs L2, 3, and 4. I haven't had surgery on them but regular exercise and strengthening of the core muscles keep the spine from having to bear the brunt of the work and it keeps the nerve from being P-nche(d).

Barry A. - 6-9-2008 at 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by postholedigger
I have 3 herniated discs L2, 3, and 4. I haven't had surgery on them but regular exercise and strengthening of the core muscles keep the spine from having to bear the brunt of the work and it keeps the nerve from being P-nche(d).

Me too, but only one disc, and not sure which one (technically speaking). Happened about 6 years ago with a very heavy lift (stupid). Excercise has been the answer for me, also. But I know that is not the answer for many, but it has got to help----I do several recommended back excercises 4 times a week----if I stop for a month, or so, it gets really bad----so I only stopped once----never again. :lol:

Back injuries are just horrible-------my sympathies to you Captain.

Barry

Cypress - 6-9-2008 at 01:03 PM

Capt. George, Walking a bit might help. :yes:

Have had a kink or two in my back.

Getting out of bed on my knees, sneezing hurts, etc. :spingrin:

If you can walk for a while, not far, just a bit, it seems to give me some relief. :tumble:

Try it.

A lot better than surgery.

ncampion - 6-9-2008 at 01:51 PM

Don't go for a laminectomy unless that's the only choice. Newer procedures are better and less invasive. Had one done last Dec. 100% fix and walked out of the hospital same day. Check this out:

http://www.espine.com/lumbar-microdiscectomy.htm

Need an up to date neurosurgeon. Good luck.

DianaT - 6-9-2008 at 02:42 PM

Gees---not good----John also has pretty much the same thing. His back hurts most of the time, especially if he twists the wrong way, and I have seen him so bad that he could not walk at all--- that was when he had the MRI

For him, walking on a regular basis on the beach in Baja helps. (We are much better about walking everyday when in Baja) A good chiropracter has helped a lot.

A good Also, for some relief when it is acting up, this works for both of us (my back problems are different) Stretch out on you back on the floor. Put your lower legs on a dinning type chair with knees bent and let your back settle. Just relax, don't try to force anything, but wait until the small of your back relaxes down to the floor---can take 1/2 hour sometimes. It relaxes the tight muscles that can cause some of the pain.

Just a suggestion---helps us. For us, surgery would be the VERY last resort.

Good luck
Diane

longlegsinlapaz - 6-9-2008 at 02:43 PM

Hmmmmmm....strange it's only men sharing info! I too had a herniated L5 disk for 4 years. I'd never had surgery in my entire life & my spine was the last place I wanted to start, so I tried all the non-invasive recommendations I got....exercise, physical therapy, cortizone injections directly into the disk....in the hope of getting the inflammation down & get it to pull back into my spinal column. No such luck! Mine also was pressing directly into my sciatic nerve & I'd be under total bed rest for a week every 6-12 months from flareups. After 4 years, it ruptured & I couldn't walk, stand, crawl, lived in fear of sneezing & even my dog or cat jumping on the bed.

George, there were several things that I discovered helped me....either a spa or a tub of the hottest water you can stand & when you sleep, lay on your side & curl up in into a tight fetal position; this allows your spine to open up & frequently the herniated disk will relax a little & pull back into your spinal column. Don't twist at the waist & don't lift anything heavier than a cerveza! Anything you do life, lift it as close to your body as possible, don't lift anything at arms length. What made mine go from herniated to ruptured in 1/100th of a second flat was me lifting a 5lb electric chainsaw over the tailgate of my truck! I drove from Portland back to Seattle & had to call my neighbors to get me from my truck into the house! Couldn't stand, couldn't walk, couldn't straighten up! The pain of any movement whatsoever, including breathing, was so excruciating it took 2 EMT's 45 minutes to get me from the seated position they found me in onto a gurney. I was taken to ER Saturday 8 PM, admitted Sunday 3 AM afterNOTHING they gave me during those 7 hours in ER even thought about touching the pain! They did a current MRI Monday AM & operated on me Wednesday evening around 7PM. I made it to the bathroom in my room under my own power that evening & the nurse had to make me stop on my first "mandatory hall walk" the following morning because I was willing & able to walk much farther than she felt I should have been able to! Granted I was still loaded with painkillers from surgery, but I begged the doc to let me go home Thursday. He told me if I still felt like dancing Friday AM, he'd release me. Friday AM when he stuck his head in the door & asked if I wanted to dance, I muttered a very emphatic & heartfelt "Go to hell!" :lol:

I was released Saturday!

So I was in the hospital a full week & on medical leave for 2 full months. I lucked out big time....the neurosurgeon I got was the one who did all the neurosurgery for the [then] Seattle Seahawks. But I still ended up with a small degree of permanent nerve & muscle damage because of the 4 days it took to find a slot to schedule my surgery into.

George, you only think you know what pain is now :no:

....schedule surgery soon, because if it ruptures, you'll have a whole new definition of pain.

Capt. George - 6-9-2008 at 03:14 PM

Thanks all!

Certainly more informed then I was this morning.

Without meds the pain is excruciating and I have a relatively high pain tolerance. Will see the Neurosurgeon on Thursday and know more.

ncampion, I will definately look into this procedure.

Gotta love the Nomads!! cap'n g

Capt. George - 6-9-2008 at 03:18 PM

legs

maybe we'll get to see you in Abreojos this summer?? too hot in La Paz

how long ago was your operation?

george

Osprey - 6-9-2008 at 03:29 PM

Capt, sorry about your problems. I learned something today too. I thought you were talking about hurricane season. I thought a laminectomy was removing the plywood from the windows and doors after the storm (what didn't blow away).

bajajudy - 6-9-2008 at 04:37 PM

One more hint. If you sleep on your side put a pillow between your knees and when you sleep on your back, put two pillows under your knees. I have been sleeping this way for over 30 years and am hoping to continue without surgery for 30 more. I am very adept at transferring the pillows around but try to sleep on my back most of the time.
Hope you will be better soon. one way or another

Russ - 6-9-2008 at 04:43 PM

Mine just went out yesterday. First time in about 7 years. I think it won't be the normal 5 to6 weeks this time. Already doing a few stretches and walking. Getting out of bed was painful this morning. I had it bad before I moved down here and became more careful. But like so many other things in my life here I became very lazy and stopped doing some simple stretches every day. Payback time! Good luck and a speedy recovery Capt. George!

Gadget - 6-9-2008 at 05:14 PM

I have degenerative disks L2-3 bone on bone, 3-4 50%, from a fall through a roof on a job site 20+ years ago.
Told them in emergency I broke my back.
They didn't see all the soft tissue damage only looking for fractures in the vertebrea.
Found out about the "castastrophic motorcycle accident look" of my spine 2 years ago when I had a good X-ray done looking for broken ribs after I got kicked by a young black belt sparring in the dojo, who didn't like getting showed up by an old guy.

The whole vertebrea mess is fused together with scar tissue and bone bridging and is pretty darn stable. I'm lucky its high and bulgeing misses the nerves.

As others posted, core strength, weight control and exercise are all key both before and after you do have anything done to keep pain down.

I do Qi-Gong martials arts which is a slow stretching workout routine. Specifically a routine for low back pain which mirrors the fluid movements of water. It takes about 30min. and you feel like gumby when done.
http://www.pacifichealingarts.com
I don't buy into the Senseis nature worship mumbo jumbo, just do the workout with the volumn off.
Prayers are with you George and all you other Nomads with bum backs.

Mexitron - 6-9-2008 at 05:37 PM

My back finally gave out a few years ago after 25 years of landscaping. All the exercises didn't seem to help. Same thing happened to my brother and he said even swimming didn't help--it was only after he started distance running again that the pain went away. So I gave it a try and it really worked! Go figure. My only guess is that running somehow settles things back into place. I realize this isn't indicated for severe cases requiring surgery.

longlegsinlapaz - 6-9-2008 at 07:23 PM

George, my surgery was nearly 12 years ago.

Depending on your specific condition & what the neurosurgeon recommends, you'll have to make a decision on what's right for you. I was so freaked because I knew I'd lost all options of avoiding surgery any longer, that I can't tell you the name of the procedure I had, but I can tell ya that my scar is about 1" and I left the operating room 1/4" shorter than I went in! :lol:

Mexitron, your suggestion to run makes me cringe, I have no portion of that disk left, so running actually causes pain from no longer having a "shock absorber" in that portion of my spine.

Sorry Diane, you hit the post button just before I did! I retract my comment about only guys responding!

Judy, the pillow between the knees is one I'd forgotten! That one does help, but not on my back with pillows under knees....just goes to show that we are all unique individuals & no two of our injuries or recoveries will be the same.

What I can say with assurance is that if I'd known how successful my surgery was going to be, I'd have had it 4 years sooner when it was diagnosed as immediately operable, rather than living in pain & fear of an invasive procedure. In all the years since my surgery, I've only gone back to the doctor walking like an inverted "L" ONCE!! And it was my own fault....I overdid with heavy stuff!!

rogerj1 - 6-9-2008 at 08:54 PM

After many years of varied treatment and after talking to a neurosurgeon, I stumbled onto a stretching technique that has changed my life. Here's a link that looks helpful.

http://www.easyvigour.net.nz/fitness/h_MckenzieExt.htm

By the way, the microdiskectomy is ideal for someone with sciatic pain, radiating down the leg. Less so for just back pain.

Paulina - 6-9-2008 at 09:57 PM

I have degenerative disc disease. After going through all the hoops and jumps that insurance made me go through without any relief I was finally granted permission for surgery. The procedure was done by the head of Neurosurgery in Pasadena 13 years ago. He told me I would probably have to do it again in 10 years. It is creeping back again, so I have to be very careful and do most of what everyone who posted above does re lifting, stretching, twisting, pillow sleeping, etc.
Dern had the same surgery 5 years ago with my same neurosurgeon and is doing great.
Our doctor said, "walk, walk and walk." So we do.
Good luck!

P<*)))><

toneart - 6-9-2008 at 10:43 PM

I think most of us have had back problems. I consider myself very lucky so far. When I was a child I threw my sacroiliac out by swinging one leg. A chiropractor fixed it. As an adult, my lower back goes out about twice a year and puts the muscles into spasm.

One time I was completely immobile; the pain was so great I couldn't turn over in bed. I couldn't get off my back and onto my side, the pain was so great. I had just moved into my house and didn't have my phone hooked up yet. It gets worse: The little kids next door had tried to set my house on fire, first by building
and lighting a stack of sticks and paper under the house. The Gas & Electric co. man discovered it when he turned on the power and gas. The next day they set fire to the tall dry weeds in my back yard. It gets even worse: I didn't have the foresight to take a jar to bed with me. Needless to say, I was lying in a soaked mattress.

After 48 hours with no way to get help I thought I would die in there. I knew that if those kids were successful in setting my house on fire, I would be BBQ. I meditated on levitating off the bed and landing on my hands and knees on the floor. I knew I had only one chance at it and that it would be very painful. Don't ask my how I did it. I just visualized being on my hands and knees on the floor and that is how I landed. It was excruciating.
I crawled to the wall and lifted myself up by my fingers in the door jamb. I inched along the wall and made it outside where a passerby helped me to the hospital.

There have been many other times where I could hardly walk, but that was the worst.

As I get older the time it takes to heal is longer. But it does get well in time. I have never injured my back. It always goes out with some passive activity, like reaching for my shoes or bending over the sink.

The good news is when I'm well, I'm well! I ski, backpack, dance, maneuver in after dark escapades, and never seem to hurt my back. Chiropractors have helped me, but the last one hurt me. Mostly I let time take care of it. I am a physically active person and exercise, stretch and walk regularly. I am always conscience of protecting my back and get up out of chairs slowly. Once I am up.....no problem. I find that, when the back starts to go out and throw the muscles into spasm, I try to remain very still until the first spasm passes. I put an ice pack on the affected area for about 15 or 20 minutes. That almost always give a little relief from pain. The next day, when the inflammation has somewhat subsided, I alternate ice and heat packs.

As I said, I think I am lucky. It doesn't seem to be a herniated disk.

Capt. George,
I wish you the the best of luck in your treatment and hope you can get back to Abreojos this winter. :coolup:

Iflyfish - 6-9-2008 at 10:57 PM

I had a c5/c6 discectomy and fusion. Neck. Great surgery, easy recovery, relieved the pain and it has not come back. Be sure and see your MRI images, be sure and ask all the questions that you have. Scar tissue can cause problems post surgery. Ask what is the likelihood of this.

My best to you.

Iflyfish

Capt. George - 6-10-2008 at 05:12 AM

What a great thread for all of us. Lots of info for all Nomads, young and "older"

Have dealt with back pain and injuries most my adult life..Many bumps and falls in the FDNY over twenty years...Well, apparently, the chickens have come home to roost.

This time is beyond the normal back pain. Without the pain meds right now, simply unbearable (especially for a man= cry baby). Will see the surgeon on Thursday and have the procedure done ASAP

MRI diagnosed "Large Herniated Disc" L4-L5 only one way to fix that. After surgery I will be using all the other info, suggestion aquired on this thread.

Thanks Nomads...we might bicker a little but we sure do come to each others assistance when the chips are down..Kudos for us.

George

Capt. George - 6-10-2008 at 05:14 AM

Osprey

When do you think we'll get to share a room at the "Institution?"

capitolkat - 6-10-2008 at 05:49 AM

George - others have said it but my neurosurgeon said it best- a ruptured or severly herniated disk is a mechanical problem, and I sufferd your kind of pain for months looking for other solutions, exercise, therapy, stretching, chiropractic, and some days all I could see was the tops of other peoples shoes- partial discetomy- and I was fine in a few days and now stretch every morning, do some leg lifts, pelvic tilts, and I'm ready to go.

I literally feel your pain as I've been in the same position- the sciatic nerve is the largest nerve in the body and when it is P-nched it is excruciating and can cause spasms, legs twiches and it's torture. I watch people walking and can tell who has a bad back versus a bad knee or feet problem- It's not the same gate for a back injury.

So the happy ending- 10 years ago surgery- and I'm fine. Really no limitations except age keeps me from bungi jumping, or break dancing. Ask the surgeon how many he's done and his success rate- he's obligated to tell you and best wishes on what I'm sure will be an improved condition.

Norm

DianaT - 6-10-2008 at 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by capitolkat

So the happy ending- 10 years ago surgery- and I'm fine. Really no limitations except age keeps me from bungi jumping, or break dancing. Norm

What, no break dancing? I should have told my knee surgeon that if I could not break dance after surgery, no surgery--but then again, I never could break dance. :lol:

I guess I am a little sour on surgery right now because my very simple common knee surgery, from a "very good doctor" has caused me lots of problems.

Which ever way you go George, GOOD LUCK and when you are better, Baja awaits. Hate to hear any one being in that kind of pain.

Diane

Capt. George - 6-12-2008 at 09:01 AM

MRI to new surgeon MY FDNY INsurance closest Nuersurgeons accepting such is 120 miles away in St Petersburg. But a great facility there, Bayfront Medical Center..Tampa Bay

Will have more info in a couple days...hoping to get operated on quickly.

Thanks all, for your concern

Home to Baja in no time!!

Paulina - 6-12-2008 at 09:15 AM

Capt. George,

I'm glad the process is going through, you'll be pain free in no time. When Dern had his surgery, we were living in Punta Banda. We drove from there to the neurosurgeon in Pasadena, back and forth for follow up check ups, etc. The drive wasn't that bad for him, nothing compared to the sciatica he was dealing with prior to surgery.

We're hoping the best for you.

P y D

Russ - 6-12-2008 at 09:55 AM

For those with back pain. - FYI - A neighbor just gave me a box of "Backaid" and it really worked for me. At least now I can move around a bit and the muscles have relaxed enough to hopefully speed up the healing process.---- Capt. George, good luck! And a speedy recovery.

baitcast - 6-12-2008 at 10:40 AM

Not knowing the shape your in its hard to make a suggestion,first and formost if your over weight lose it!!!! makes a world of difference.

Walk if possible alot!! get in shape,older people tend to be way out of shape,I just turned 74 and just got back from a quick five miler.

I had back problems for years but getting in shape and staying that way took care of that problem :biggrin:

Rob

Capt. George - 6-12-2008 at 10:53 AM

baitcast

was it a large herniated disc? I have had FDNY induced back trouble over twenty years..

This time is way beyond back problems...I will take your advice, which I appreciate, after the operation..

Russ, been taking prescription muscle relaxers, little comfort there.

Paulina, appreciate the support and comforting words of encouragement.

Might be a set back to coming home to Baja...can't drive back and forth to St Petersburg Florida! San Diego, Deborah and I could do that in reverse.

thanks Nomads

Russ - 6-12-2008 at 03:59 PM

Good health Capt. I know what you're talking about. Have had problems for about 30 yrs but the last 10 or so have been just minor incidents ... 'till now.

BajaGringo - 6-12-2008 at 06:13 PM

I was in severe pain to the point that I could hardly get up out of a chair without assistance and diagnosed with a herniated disc. The doc told me I would need surgery. I had several friends/family go through the procedure with many of them telling me they wished they hadn't done it. Not saying a definite "no", I decided to look at some alternatives to see if at the very least it could be put off.

I dieted - losing 30 pounds, started walking and exercise and began hanging upside down in one of those inversion chairs that everybody loves to tell you won't help. That was in 1995 and I still have zero back pain.

May not work for everybody but may help some...

fusing a

[Edited on 6-13-2008 by BajaGringo]

baitcast - 6-13-2008 at 03:59 AM

Forgot I had one of those inversion set up loved that thing,flip up and listen to all the poppin goin on,felt great.
Rob

Capt. George - 6-13-2008 at 04:40 AM

Baja Gringo

Is that a photo of you hanging upside down or a photo of herniated disc pain.. Did you have an MRI to confirm a "herniated disc"?

I have been told by a few doctors, not the surgeond, my MRI shows need of more then therapy. I hope there right...But after over va month of this, get out the ax!

Hey you two inversion chair guys, ever get an urge to hang out (no pun intended) with bats every once in a while? :lol:

cap'n g

gotta keep a sense of humor!

Iflyfish - 6-14-2008 at 08:13 AM

Capn G

A word of warning regarding pain meds. I was put on Oxycontin 10mg time released tablets three times per day for three years. My hip replacement was a miracle, after 15 years of pain, it was GONE! Instantly. I took a month to titrate off the drug, mine was a very low doseage, and I slept only two nights in the two weeks following total withdrawal. It is a wonderful drug for pain, it really works, but if you have to take it, take it sparingly and get off it as soon as you can. I have been reading horror stories about people hooked on that drug. If you need it, take it, just get off pronto.

Iflyfish

BajaGringo - 6-14-2008 at 08:26 AM

The photo was taken the moment the doc said....

"No more pain medication for you!!!"

lizard lips - 6-14-2008 at 11:48 AM

I also have degenerative disk problems and my orthopedic surgeon told me he has the same problem as me. He told me that even surgery would not help. I have been to pt and that really didn't do anything as well.

My pain gets so bad that I cant even get out of bed but when I muster up the confidence to deal with the pain I will walk around for about an hour and it usually gets better.

I have now been dealing with sever pain this past week and I think it may be because I just returned from a very long plane trip and even though I was in first class with the seats much bigger I still cant seem to get any relief.

My doctor gave me Vicodin and believe me it works well but it really scares me because I know the problem is still there and I am just masking it with drugs and I don't want to get hooked on this drug. Damed if I do and pain if I don't!

BajaGringo - 6-14-2008 at 12:08 PM

I will take the pills you don't want liz.

For some strange reason my doctor won't give me any more. I probably made a mistake by going into his office the last time, pounding on the reception area glass partition and demanding more dru... I mean, pills.

It might have helped too if I had bathed, shaved, combed my hair and put on some clean clothes first. I wasn't as clean-cut and professional looking like I am in my avatar photo.

I am hoping he is a member here, reads this post, sees my photo and realizes that I need some of that "special" help he can give me.

DAMMIT I WANT SOME DRUGS!!!!!

OK, I feel better after getting that off my chest.

We now return you to regular programming...

lizard lips - 6-14-2008 at 01:41 PM

B Gringo-You can have every one I have left except the ones I will take on the golf course to easily beat you!

I am leaving for Mexico City this week but will return after the first of the month if you want to smack the small ball around at Baja Mar.

BajaGringo - 6-14-2008 at 01:56 PM

Bring your drugs and you have a deal!!!

Capt. George - 6-14-2008 at 02:06 PM

BajaGringo

Thanks for a good belly laugh! I had a similar look after being told "no more bagels for you" by the bagel N-zi.

flyfish: I'm being very careful with the dru, uh meds, I could look like BajaGringo if I don't watch out...

I think the pain meds I have are a toned down version..

oxycodone/APAP 5Mg-325mg I believe the 5mg is oxycodonr and the 325 mg is a form of Tylenol...

lips: don't know if this is a degenerative problem or simply a herniated disc, will know more come Wednesday..Suprised if it ain't "degenerative", cause I sure am.

cap'n g

BajaGringo - 6-14-2008 at 02:16 PM

I am here to serve...

lizard lips - 6-14-2008 at 02:21 PM

Good luck Cap'n. I saw my doctor last month and again complained about this and he asked just how much pain are you having? I told him it was just tooo much and have even considered telling my wife to kick me in the small ones just to take the pain from my back. He told me to try it! I bet it works...

Skeet/Loreto - 6-14-2008 at 06:10 PM

Good Luck George: Hope all goes well with you as it has with me the past Month.

Sometimes it is good to take a Risk with no Fear?

Your Friend

skeeter Peter

Iflyfish - 6-14-2008 at 07:00 PM

I was on the oxycontin 10mg time released for three years. You are on the 5mg non time released. You are on a low doseage and will be off it soon after your surgery. I don't want to discourage you from taking this medication, it is a miracle drug for pain. It also lifts ones mood and that can be useful under these circumstances. It is helpful to "stay ahead" of the pain and not chase it. So take your meds and don't worry. It is very fortunate that we have these drugs for extreme pain. I was attempting to provide you and others with a cautionary message, be aware that Oxycodontin and Oxycodone are addictive and the withdrawals from it are simply awful.

I am glad that medication was available to me, it allowed me to go about normal activities for years that I would not have been able to do. I just never expected to discover how horrible withdrawal can be,

I have met people in the past who have used Medical Marijuana for pain relief. Oregon is one of many states that have laws allowing it's prescription and use. I am told that it is helpful to many with severe arthritic pain. I don't use it myself cause all I ever did with it caused me to just stare blankly into space and grin stupidly at people. It also causes extreme food cravings, particularly sweets. A person can also become habituated to Marijuana use. I am not making any medical recommendations here, just sharing what I know.

Again, like any pain medication there is a price to pay, there is no free lunch as far as chronic use of pain medications go.

I too appreciate the generosity of this group as shown in this thread.

Iflyfish

oladulce - 6-14-2008 at 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Capt. George
...I think the pain meds I have are a toned down version..

oxycodone/APAP 5Mg-325mg I believe the 5mg is oxycodonr and the 325 mg is a form of Tylenol...

cap'n g

Capt, the Oxycodone you're taking ("Percocet") is a medium/strong pain pill. It does have the equivalent of 1 regular strength Tylenol in each pill also so be mindful if you take any extra Tylenol on the side for other unrelated pain. Tally up your total daily Tylenol intake because your liver is your friend.

Iflyfish's OxyContin is the same thing (Oxycodone, without the Tylenol) only in a sustained release form that comes in much higher concentrations and lasts 8-12 hours and is about the strongest med you can get in pill form. OxyContin is most often used in severe chronic ,or Cancer pain when someone has built up such a tolerance to medication that nothing else will work.

I am sooo happy that you got relief and that your hip was successful Flyfish! That kind of stuff gives goosebumps to an ol nurse like me.

Captain, take your pain medicine, and anti-inflammatories and augment the effect of the Percocet with your muscle relaxer! Use a good cold therapy ice pack to get a handle on real acute flare ups. But don't be afraid to take your medicine young man or i'll have to give you another lecture.

It sounds like there may be a surgical option for you in the future so take the pain pills if you need them to get you thru this discomfort. I don't know when your pain started but unfortunately it doen't take long to build up tolerance to pain medicine so be honest with your anesthesiologist and tell him how much and what meds you were taking during the time leading up to your surgery so they can adjust your post-operative doses accordingly. You may require more than an "average" dose and sometimes you have to remind your professional caregivers of this.

Also remind your surgeon which pain med and how much you've been taking so he can prescribe your post op meds accordingly. The more relaxed and comfortable you are after surgery, the more blood flow you'll have to the area to promote healing and the easier it'll be to get up and start moving like you should.

My advise about surgery is: The root of all back pain is pressure on the nerves. But fellow back-pain sufferers may have a myriad of different reasons for their pain which can be different than yours. Find a surgeon with a good reputation , who works a facility with a good reputation. If he recommends surgery, have him explain why he thinks it'll help you. If he doesn't explain the risks, benefits, and offer if there are any other options for you then keep looking until you find a surgeon that will.

I'll occasionally hear someone say that they're worse off after their back surgery but wihtout knowing the specifics, who knows what their deal was. And sometimes, no matter how good your surgeon is, the outcome isn't as successful as everyone hoped for.

But more often, I'll look at a patient's surgical history of a lumbar laminectomy (young & old) and be surprised, because they gave no indication of any limitations.

And I can't count how many times I've seen the zipper on a patient's lower back and say "hey, you didn't tell me you've had back surgery" to which they'll reply, "oh, I forgot all about it".

So I'm hoping that whatever you decide, you're "forgetting all about it" real soon.

Iflyfish - 6-14-2008 at 11:54 PM

Thanks oladulce

Great summary and advice!

Iflyfish

Capt. George - 6-15-2008 at 05:53 AM

This site is still the best! From Amigos de Baja to Nomads, always entertaining, informative and filled with friends, seen and unseen. I am very glad to be a part of it.

Baja Gringo, you are certainly serving well.

Skeet, I'm almost as stubborn as you, things will work out. How is Todd?

Lips, Deborah has already kicked me there, many times, don't work!

oladulce, great information, and nurses always get my attention. Especially St Paddy's Day in Manhattan...what parties, nurses and firefighters!!

iflyfish, me too with the grass, wander around and grin, eat anything that does not move and occasionally wonder who I am. Been a long time though, maybe too long?

thanks Nomads cap'n g

Skeet/Loreto - 6-15-2008 at 06:56 AM

George: my experience with Pain/Drugs tells me that Get Rid of the Perocet as soon as you can and Go for the Surgery.

Since I am of the Old School and think all Narcotics are "Bad" including DOPE called Weed etc. Please understand where I am coming From.

In 03 I was the Victum of a "Bad Operation" from one supposedly good Doctor Hanson out of Fresno. He was in a Hurry, left the Cuff on the Right Leg, cut a Ligement, nipped a Nerve.
I used only Tylenol until05 when I went to the Vets Hospital in Amarillo, where a rather tall and Skinny Women Chinses Doctor prescribed Tylenol/Codiene and Valaium with Nexlocam. My pain went away in 3 days times so I stopped the Pain Medicine, still take the Nexlocam. No more Pain.

Next Pain Problem; Coming Awake after a Triple ByPass on May the 28th I sufferred the worst Pain I have ever Known--Catherther Tube_ It is like Torture!!! But necessary to keep you Alive.

After the Tube was removed I was given one Vicadan, which made me Goofy as a March Hare. After that Tylenol extra Strength was enough.

Todd is Looking for a School for his Daughter who is Majoring in Japanese International Business. His New Job is Great, He Travels Houston, Austin, San Antonio.

Debroah; Keep Him Safe.

Skeeter

Don't screw around---

beercan - 6-15-2008 at 09:39 AM

as one firefighter to another , do the same as Ken and I did, a good neurosurgeon and git it done !!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

By Ken
My sympathies. I had the same thing, large herniated disc L4-L5 (1/2" bulge pressing directly on the sciatic nerve). Pain was excruciating, could hardly walk. After unsuccessful treatment with chiropractic, accupuncture, epidural injections (3), I finally had a laminectomy in 2003. The operation was completely successful, I have never had a recurrance. I had a GREAT neurosurgeon!

[Edited on 6-15-2008 by beercan]

Capt. George - 6-15-2008 at 09:54 AM

Thanks Brother

you still "on the job"...........I been out since '89

my major back injury in the FDNY, was doing a search and falling through a floor and landing flat on my feet on a cross beam, dropped from the sixth to the fifth floor. Think I lost 3 inches of height..

Was in a "booby trapped" (common in the seventies) abandoned building in the South Bronx. Left Nam and went to the Bronx, thought I was back in Nam (without a weapon, just a hose.)

surgery for me? the sooner the better!

George, I sent you an email !!

beercan - 6-15-2008 at 03:23 PM

Phil S - 6-16-2008 at 08:13 AM

Hi George & 'hugs' to Deborah!!
I'm sorry to hear about your 'pain'. I've been there done that. Even to the point that the "bone bender" almost 'killed me' one time. If I'd been carrying a pistol, he'd be dead today!!!!!!!!!! Did the laying in bed for three months with very little activity. Finally, referred to a specialist in Eugene Oregon.!!!!++++++ Was L3/L4 Was 2000 that I had the operation. Thought at first after awakening, I'd never be able to straighten up again. BUT. Thanks to this "gorgeous" (yes guys there are still gorgeous nurses out there, though I think they are becoming scarce these days). who encouraged me to walk the halls most of the time I was in recovery. It worked. Today I've still not had any problems. I try to walk at least a mile a day. Looking back at those "pain days", I can remember a lot of the "ten" days. Ten is when you pick up the phone and dial g o d and say, It's time to come & get me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's to a speedy recovery, and future years of enjoying your most (second most??) sport of fishing.!!!! See you in Baja somewhere.
Phil & Wendy

mulegemichael - 6-16-2008 at 09:03 AM

For those of us where another surgery is not an option, try the medication lyrica....I'm using it now and have been for over a year...It's not addicting and was actually developed to treat seizures but they discovered it treats sciatica pain very effectively...all the pain goes away in my lower back and down my leg...ask your doctor about it as i find it miraculous.

Capt. George - 6-16-2008 at 10:58 AM

phil/wendy

L3-L4 pretty sure that is where mine is. Seen the MRI pictures and notes, now don't remember...percocet! No problem the surgeon has them now. The road to Ojos has gotten a little better..maybe ten miles left? We will be there as soon as my back allows travel, 3600 miles.

michael, the info went in my notebook re pain med...thanks

gracias

Cypress - 6-16-2008 at 11:54 AM

Capt. George, Walk! :bounce:

It's painful and you'll be listing to one side or the other, but walking will do more for you than any drugs and it won't fry your kidneys and liver.

I sent you an Email, CG.

djh - 6-16-2008 at 12:37 PM

Sorry ~ I'd totally missed your thread George.
I hope you are feeling much better and landing fish soon!
David and Shing in Idaho.

El Jefe - 6-16-2008 at 06:34 PM

Another surgery success tale. My wife Paula had the microdiscectomy surgery in February this year. Prior to that her ruptured L-5 had her totally disabled and in extreme pain. You can only imagine what our 12 mile dirt road did to here every time she went to town. And she as allergic to the really good drugs so there was not ever enough relief.

I'm very happy to say the surgery was a great success and she is almost pain free today. She is back to her old self and life is good. We highly recommend her doctor. For you west coasters he is Dr. Frazee at UCLA Medical center. One of the top in his field, he has performed many, many of these.

Good Luck Captain George from another retired FD guy (three years out and loving it). Jefe

Capt. George - 6-17-2008 at 04:54 AM

Thanks Brother

Certainly your wifes success is great news and another boost to my morale.

I was suprised to note that micrdiscectomy has been around for quite some time, more good news. Consukt with surgeon tomorrow.

I've been off "The Job" since '89. Twenty years and out, at over eight thousand runs a year I had enough!

Capt. George - 6-19-2008 at 06:46 AM

Seen the surgeon. July 1 microdiscectomy. The herniation, unfortuneately occurred is a location that is not typical. The operation is a little more involved but still a microdiscectomy.

Really no other choice but to go ahead, this is not going to fix itself. Hopefully a rapid recovery and back to Abreojos before August!

Thanks Nomads for all the info, advice and good wishes..

Glad to be a Nomad

longlegsinlapaz - 6-19-2008 at 07:45 AM

George, did you TELL the surgeon you're hoping to be making a bazillion mile drive (because that's what it's going to SEEM like!) that soon after surgery? :?:

The reason I'm asking is because I was banned from driving PERIOD for 30 days for 2 reasons, first, if you get into an accident before your body has fully healed, you'll be worse off than before your surgery & secondly, driving puts a lot of strain on your lower back; sitting in one position for hours/days at a time, and having all four of your appendages (both arms & both legs) extended at the same time is a killer! You'll learn rapidly, to just use one side at a time rather than a right & left side combination.

Have you discussed your post-op follow-up appoint schedule with your doc? I think it might extend into your anticipated hitting the road time-frame! Although each person's surgery & recovery is unique!

Even if Deborah drives 3/4's of the time & distance, you're going to be one weary, hurting puppy. I know 30-45 days SOUNDS like a long time for full recovery, but I think you might want to ask your doc what he recommends/predicts the time-line for your resuming the full range of activities you want to get back to. IMHO & personal experience, I believe you have over-optimistic expectations of when you might once again qualify to apply for a job with the Flying Wallendas! Not to mention hooking a trailer up, stocking it, getting your rigs road-ready, changing a tire on the road if need be, or simply stocking it with beer!

I KNOW Deborah can do all this with one hand tied behind her back, but....doing all that AND playing nurse to one hurting whining puppy at the same time, just might be putting a tad bit of strain on your relationship!

From a much more optimistic viewpoint, you might just leave the hospital doing cartwheels! :lol:

Capt. George - 6-20-2008 at 04:29 AM

hi C

I won't leave before (at least) three weeks after surgery. That is about the amount of time for a return visit to surgeon, providing all things go well. Like you said even the packing for the trip will be stressing, Abreojos will have to wait, but we sure do miss it. Maybe you can drive up for a visit this summer? Hope so.

Thought it might have been an out patient procedure, however due to the location of the herniation, a night or two in the hospital will be necessary. Flying Wallendas, I like that!

You're right about Deborah handling a lot of this stuff but it would be tough. However, we will wait a good amount of time and then take a "slow" drive cross country, can stop for a couple of days here and there if necessary. Most times going to Baja I'm like a whirling dervish, completely nuts!

If we stop, it will give Deborah a place to hide from the sniveling and whining that will be going on.

Thanks Legs, how's the house coming? finished yet? hope so.

su amigos George & Deborah

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
George, did you TELL the surgeon you're hoping to be making a bazillion mile drive (because that's what it's going to SEEM like!) that soon after surgery? :?:

From a much more optimistic viewpoint, you might just leave the hospital doing cartwheels! :lol:

capitolkat - 6-20-2008 at 11:12 AM

George -- it's been 10 years since my surgery. Be sure to listen to your therapist- do your pelvice tilt exercises, build your core muscles to take the load off your back, don't think this reverts you to a teenager no matter how good it feels after the surgery because the previous pain makes any improvement sooooo good and it's the same back you had before with the same weaknesses- you just got the burr removed from your saddle.

like I said it's been 10 years and when I woke up from surgery I cried because the excruciating pain was gone, I could hold my head up and didn't have to walk stooped over.

Best wishes amigo-- Norm

Capt. George - 6-20-2008 at 06:01 PM

Thanks Norm, that's reassuring and great advice.

I think this episode will change the way I've done some things in the past....like thinking I'm 30 when I'm 62...

pelvic exercises, I like the sound of that!

July 1 will tell the tale...will keep you all posted. you have all been a great help, as usual..

A Fellow Nomad

Skeet/Loreto - 6-23-2008 at 03:26 AM

Good Morning George: good Luck on your surgery!
May 28th 2008
Ttriple ByPass in Calif.
Doctors told me it would! take at least 6 months for Recovery,would add 29 years to my LIFE to my Life! It feels like it !

Slow down, walk every day, take your Meds . i AM FEELING LIKE I was 20 years old again~
sKEET
In Kansas City Mo. for the Extreme Race
see you in Basja in 6 months

vandenberg - 6-23-2008 at 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

Slow down, walk every day, take your Meds . i AM FEELING LIKE I was 20 years old again~
sKEET

see you in Basja in 6 months

Glad your surgery was so succesful Skeeter.

Viva " THE BASJA ". :biggrin: