BajaNomad - Rock Carvings...old or new...a job for Nomad Super Slueths

Rock Carvings...old or new...a job for Nomad Super Slueths

shari - 6-9-2008 at 06:16 PM

I have been searching the internet for days and can't seem to get anywhere so maybe this is a job for nomad super slueths. I would like to know if these stone sculptures are pre-hispanic or recently made carvings. Anyone out there know anything about this topic or can suggest where I might find out?

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bajalera - 6-9-2008 at 06:22 PM

Not indigenous to the peninsula or Jesuits would have mentioned them. Where do they come from?

the collection

shari - 6-9-2008 at 06:29 PM

there are 18 sculptures in all...verybeautiful...unique...mysterious...another real baja adventure. I look forward to your comments, conjecture, theories etc.

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shari - 6-9-2008 at 06:38 PM

Oh my word...the photos each got into their own thread...wow...maybe diabolical??? stranger things have happened on this board...hmmm...well, these sculptures were shown to me by a man who claims to have carved them...we spent the day together and I asked lots of questions which left me somewhat mystified as to their "real" origins. I guess I will have to go to the man's casa to find out...to see him carving in person before I can believe it. Before I saw them, I had heard some rumors about a secret underground mission storage place that may have been looted....which adds intrigue to the story! I would love to hear if anyone has ever seen anything like these. Juan seems to remember similar carvings at the mission in San Ignacio???? Anyone have any photos of such carvings??? I am simply fascinated by them and dream of them at night...I need to find out about them so I can rest!

shari - 6-9-2008 at 06:45 PM

I can visualize these fantastic pieces on display in a fancy gallery or museum on elaborate bases with track lighting etc...if the artist is for real...he would be a national treasure! I would love to help launch his career and see his pieces in an exhibition...he claims each piece takes more or less a couple weeks and he started carving when he was tending goats in the hills 7 years ago. I'm gonna put a slide show together of all the pieces from different angles. I LOVE them.

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bajalera - 6-9-2008 at 06:58 PM

Whoever carved them, they sure look worthwhile. Is he selling them, and if so, for how much?

Bajame - 6-9-2008 at 07:57 PM

Quanita has them for sale at Casa Leree and They have been seen at Nano Fongs. They are carved from a local here in San Ignaico. Will get more info for you as to who it is. They are great though!

Bajagypsy - 6-9-2008 at 08:01 PM

those are very beautiful, I love them

Frank - 6-9-2008 at 08:19 PM

My wife is in love.....

ELINVESTIG8R - 6-9-2008 at 08:30 PM

I'm not an expert Shari, but I would say the man is a creative artisan and needs someone like you to guide him along the way so he will not get “Ripped Off” by some unscrupulous person.

Paula - 6-9-2008 at 08:57 PM

Another Baja Sculptor

On our first trip to Comondu we met the sculptor who did the rock face. He said he saw the face of the virgin in this rock, and took it home and uncovered it. Second trip I bought the cane with the bird handpiece. Again he said the bird was always in there, he just brought him into view. He has also shown us pieces similar to the ones in your picture, Shari, but yours are nicer. I think Bajame is right, yours are by the San Ignacio sculptor. I've seen them at Casa Leree too.

Iflyfish - 6-9-2008 at 11:06 PM

The rock wall is obviously pre columbian, done by a gifted artist.

The sculptures, not so old, nice, but that wall....cheez...it is spectacular!

Iflyfish

Gadget - 6-10-2008 at 09:56 AM

The sculptures are fantastic.
I am very interested in one of them regardless of their origin.
I will follow info with interest.

shari - 6-10-2008 at 12:24 PM

If indeed the artist in question carved these, I would be honoured to help him...however as with many things here...some things are not as they appear...I need someone to go to Enrique's house in San Ignacio and actually see him carving one..one half done for example to eliminate the doubts lingering in my cabeza. The man asks $500 (dollars not pesos) for the small sculptures and 7-$800 for the bigger or more intricate ones. The price seemed high to me but I imagine they could sell for that in a fancy gallery.
I find it interesting that most look like ancient carvings, indian themes but he never mentioned any interest in indigenous art.
Some of the photos got deleted due to a human error so I will put them back here...parental guidance suggested on the diablito...any ideas why the horseshoe around his head?

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El Canaro

shari - 6-10-2008 at 12:27 PM

I loved this porous rock...this piece is called cantaro for the jug he is drinking out of...the back of the statue is awesome with his loincloth.

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expectant madre

shari - 6-10-2008 at 12:29 PM

I thought the braid on this woman was exquisite...simply lovely sculpture.

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resting

shari - 6-10-2008 at 12:32 PM

another porous rock one...

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tighten those cheeks!

shari - 6-10-2008 at 12:35 PM

mexican men sure love a large bottom!

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Paulina - 6-10-2008 at 01:01 PM

Shari,

If I remember correctly, you made a post a while ago with a similar carving of a mermaid? I liked it as well as these carvings. I think they are beautiful and appreciate the size of them.

In Bahia, chunks of pumice stone litter the beaches. I collect it, which drives Dern crazy, because I keep each one until it "tells me" what it wants to be.

Some of them are sea turtles, others turn into sealions chasing yellowtail through kelp. I never know what they are going to be until I sit in my chair with a carving knife and stare at the rock. I have a shark that I carved, then inserted the teeth from a dolphin I found washed on shore. I used black snails for it's eyeballs.

You asked what the horseshoe was all about on el diablo. Sometimes things appear where the artist had no intention of them being. It could have been something else entirely that he was "seeing" when a chip took away his intended object, thus all of a sudden his creation is wearing a horseshoe.

I've got dolphins with only one pectoral fin because at the last minute the other fin snapped off, so I had to alter them to look like they're swimming on their sides. I've thrown a headless sea turtle down the beach as well as a nearly completed whale because the tail broke away with too much pressure from my knife.

My favorite carving was made from a very old piece of whale bone that I found. It was very soft and easy to work with.

I've never tried anything so big as the pieces you've photographed. Maybe this summer...

I hope you get to the end of your mystery. If this carver wants to be seen, you're a great P.R. person to get the job done.

P<*)))>{

[Edited on 10-6-2008 by Paulina]

bajalera - 6-10-2008 at 01:47 PM

Aha! We have a real live sculptor in our midst.

Paulina, you have the experience to answer a question: Is it possible to turn out carvings like those in only a couple of weeks? Specifically, what kind of tools do you use?

DENNIS - 6-10-2008 at 02:03 PM

Shari....
If you take any more pictures, throw in a beer can to give the statues some size perspective........please.

the collection

shari - 6-10-2008 at 02:31 PM

Here is the whole shebang..the wall is about 20" high which gives you some idea of the size. The small carvings are about 10" high. Pretty impressive.

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embrace

shari - 6-10-2008 at 02:40 PM

this carving of a couple embracing is very intricate

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rapunzel

shari - 6-10-2008 at 02:41 PM

check out the hairdue on this lady!

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lovers

shari - 6-10-2008 at 02:43 PM

this guy is coppin a feel!

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shish-ka-bob

shari - 6-10-2008 at 02:45 PM

what time's dinner?

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waiting lady

shari - 6-10-2008 at 02:47 PM

this woman looks like she's waiting for the bus!

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dreadlock rasta

shari - 6-10-2008 at 02:48 PM

mexican/jamaican?

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Enrique with one of his sculptures

shari - 6-10-2008 at 02:52 PM

this is the biggest statue and it's creator...I think?? So what are your favorites? I'm interested in other's opinions and tastes. Wouldn't these be great in an exhibition!

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DianaT - 6-10-2008 at 03:01 PM

You were posting when I asked my question, so I deleted it and will ask again.

How much does he sell them for at Casa Leree?

shari - 6-10-2008 at 03:13 PM

It will be interesting to see what Juanita charges for them...the mermaid and indio I posted last year were brought by another man who claimed they were found in a cave and were pre-hispanic...he wanted 5 grand for it or a car!!! Someone told me later that a man in San Ignacio makes them and so we contacted him and he brought his works to sell. I nearly choked when he said he wanted $15,000 (dollars) for the whole collection. But they are impressive...too bad we're not moneybags.
Maybe Bob & Susan would like him to carve a replica of their lighthouse!! :lol:

ELINVESTIG8R - 6-10-2008 at 03:18 PM

Sheri I nearly spit out my false teeth (just kidding) my coke when I read 15 Grand for the collection. Wholly Toledo Lots of mula. But then again I am no expert.

Paulina - 6-10-2008 at 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalera
Aha! We have a real live sculptor in our midst.

Paulina, you have the experience to answer a question: Is it possible to turn out carvings like those in only a couple of weeks? Specifically, what kind of tools do you use?

I can only answer as to how long it takes me to complete something, and that could be a couple of days to the entire week or two. I rarely sit down and work on it till it's complete, a couple of hours here and there. I have an elephant and a big horned sheep that I'm not happy with, so I left them works in progress so I can stare at them every time I go down there until they look right, then I'll finish them. I also never jinx it by saying outloud what it's supposed to be. Sometime's I'll ask someone what they think it is, and if they are seeing the same thing I am, then I'm on the right track.

I started out with a regular kitchen carving knife, like you would use to skin an apple, because that's the smallest knife I could find in the drawer of our trailer. The blade is much smaller now, maybe 2 1/2 inches long and it's got a bend in it from the way I always hold it against the stone.

P<*)))>{

Bajame - 6-10-2008 at 04:34 PM

Depending on the piece $100 and up. She buys them for her garden ect. Wonderfull work!

shari - 6-10-2008 at 04:53 PM

I guess I'm one of those suckers born every minute...I'm gonna have a serious talk with Mr.Enrique next time I see him...when I asked him if he could come down a bit in price for an amigo he said his lowest price would be $300!!! :fire:

But they are worth every bit of the hundred bucks I figure. I guess ya cant' blame the guy for trying.

shari - 6-10-2008 at 06:29 PM

Here is a little slide show of the collection...see if this works??
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bajalera - 6-11-2008 at 12:01 PM

Thanks for the info, Paulina. Having the ability to do that kind of thing must really be satisfying. Your don't-give-it-a-name-until-it's-done approach is a practical one!

As for similar sculptures being created by peninsula Indians and secretly buried in some cage, etc., no way! Work of this quality would certainly have caught the attention of the Jesuits, who for the most part were pretty sophisticated guys, and there is no mention whatsoever of anything resembling it in mission documentation.