Scorpimon - 6-18-2008 at 02:47 PM
We have several skinny 13 m wide lots south of Liguii. Due to close proximity to arroyos we need to build our house with a footprint on 2 or 3 lots.
I have read a few comments about this in other threads but nothing definative.
Has anyone had experience doing this or know of potential problems that could occur, such as being illegal, building permit issues, needing multiple
Environmental Plans, property tax issues, etc?
I am still trying to figure out how I am going to do this since the lots are approx. 1,350 sq. mt. each and fusing them gets me into the "improvement
clause" which I would rather not have to deal with. We plan to bite the bullet and get fidis for each lot (ouch) since we plan to be year round
residents for many years to come. We want to minimize hassles (is that possible) since it is adjacent to the Federal Zone on the beach in a
developing area, the Loreto suburbs.
Just trying to do the right thing. Any help is appreciated. Oh, did I mention I was a newbie on this site!
DENNIS - 6-18-2008 at 02:50 PM
Is your area considered "Rural"?
Are you now on leased land?
Did you buy without getting a bank trust?
[Edited on 6-18-2008 by DENNIS]
Diver - 6-18-2008 at 02:53 PM
Welcome newbie !!
Why not adjust the lot borders so the part you will build on will be one lot under 2500 sf ?
Then do 2 fidis for the buiildable lot and the unbuildable lot, both under 2500 sf.
bajajudy - 6-18-2008 at 03:07 PM
I would get some professional help on this one.
No matter what, do not do any clearing on your lot....the fines are extremely high for removing plants. Get the environmental impact done
immediately. Here you cannot get a building permit without one if you are near the Federal Zone. do not take this to be correct information for you
area.
I have a friend combining two lots and she has had problems but I am not sure if they are from the combining of the lots or from removing plants. If
I see her, I will ask her.
I dont look at fideos as a choice....why would you build on property that you do not have title to
So that is my professional opinion
...
Bienvenidos to the Nomads
[Edited on 6-18-2008 by bajajudy]
Diver - 6-18-2008 at 03:17 PM
Find the Catastro's office for your area and they will tell you how much to switch the lot borders and make new titles for recording. Set up your
fidis so the titles can be completed into the fidis. The bank should be able to help with the titles as well.
If you are not fluent in spanish, an agent is a good idea.
U2 if you want the name of the agent we have used in Baja Sur. (hit the U2 button on my post and send me a message)
[Edited on 6-18-2008 by Diver]
Scorpimon - 6-18-2008 at 03:58 PM
Land is rural now since there are no roads to access it at this time. The lots have Titulo's, just going slow on how to get it all properly done
since you have to take a boat to get there right now. I have made initial inquiries into getting fideicomisos but again I didn't want to rush into
doing the wrong thing. Still looking at moving down next year and building as soon after (access would be nice)
The adjusting the border thing sounds interesting. How tuff is that to do and is it done very often? Can I still do some improvements on the rest of
the land like plant fruit trees, use for septic system?
I have not touched the land yet, since I am still north of the border, but I am taking the no touchie approach until I get the Env. Plan.
Is there a Catastro's office in Loreto? I am a beginner in spanish but am making progress. Diver I will U2U ya, thanks for telling me how.
Great input so far, thanks.
Diver - 6-18-2008 at 04:02 PM
Lot border are fairly easy to adjust and yes it is done often. (Our place was re-divided into 3 lots from 2). I think you want to redo the titles
before getting the fidi completed so the new titles will be on the fidis.
DENNIS - 6-18-2008 at 04:12 PM
I don't know what's going on down there but, here in the Ensenada area, specifically the area around and near La Bufadora which is considered rural,
there is none of this government stuff. Not even building permits are required.
You should take Judy's advice and get lawyered up. Find out where you stand.
I just built a house in the above described area and after extensive research, my info ended up as described. No permits of any kind required. I
sometimes get the feeling that bureaucracy has run amok down south.
Cypress - 6-18-2008 at 04:53 PM
Improvement clause?
You own all the lots. Combine the property with a new
plat/ survey. Is that illegal or prohibited?
toneart - 6-18-2008 at 05:34 PM
Scorpimon, Welcome!
As you can see from the different posters' replies here on The BajaNomad, there is a wealth of experience and knowledge.
A word of caution: use their information as a departure point from which to do your own first-hand research, in person. While there may be laws on
the books pertaining to your issues, the laws are subject to wide and varied regional interpretation. You can even get assurances from one bureaucrat
and he/she can be overruled or countermanded by another, even in the same department. My cynical solution is: "there are no issues that money can't
fix". Having said that facetiously, you will need to do it all legally through a Notario.
Dennis said that in the northern areas where he lives, you don't have to jump through all those hoops. I won't or can't refute that. But I can tell
you through experience, in Baja Sur they are learning fast from us that titles, land use and the environment are important. These are issues that
we care about, either philosophically and/or because of our litigious culture. They care about them too, if not philosophically, they
sure know revenue producing red tape. They can be quite officious. Many can be very nice and helpful.
If you are throwing money at the situation and want to cover yourself so as to not lose your investment, you do need to anticipate the issues and
possible pitfalls as you have already stated.
You said the lots are titled. Were they bought and titled by an Ejido? If so, they may be legal in a limited way, but you need to find out at the
Catastro office if you really own them free and clear. Will the Catastro let you pay taxes on your parcels?
You are on the right track by doing lots of research. What you need to do, of course, is to go there and take all your paperwork to a Notario and see
if the parcels are eligible for Fideocomisos. He will work with a bank to draw them up. They now cost about $6,000 U.S.
By all means, before you incur those expenses, research the land use issues. You are already familiar with the property's proximity to the Federal
Zone. You are already anticipating environmental and zoning issues and building permits.
If your Spanish is not very good, you would be advised to hire a Mexican National who speaks English well and who can interpret documents and laws.
There are many who are competent and are in that business. They are experienced and connected. They can even be given a limited Power of Attorney to
act in your behalf (at your direction) when you are not there.<<<< Can any Nomad reading this recommend one in Loreto from positive
personal experience?>>>>
Don't let any local tell you not to bother with all of this red tape. If they tell you, "nobody does it that way. This is the way we have always done
it", walk away.
I have been through it successfully, but not without some bumps in the road. I have a great real estate lawyer in La Paz that I can recommend. (I
know....the "great real estate lawyer" sounds like an oxymarooon). This one has worked miracles. He will travel and is well connected in Loreto. Let
me know if you want his name and number. He speaks English well!
Follow your dream. It is doable. Good luck!
Saludos,
T.
msteve1014 - 6-18-2008 at 06:40 PM
diver said 2500 meter lots to skip the improvement clause, but it seems like 2000 meters is the number I have seen quoted other times. any
clarification on that would be great. I own a 1000 meter, and a 1500, would love to tie them together under 1 fidio. Mike
oladulce - 6-18-2008 at 08:14 PM
You're smart to consider the future repercussions of the decisions you'll be making during this phase. You'll save yourself a lot of money by thinking
this thru .
One suggestion I'd make before getting in to fusing your lots etc, is to start towards the end of the paperwork/permit processes and work backward. If
you keep the footprint of your buildings under a certain size, it's possible you may not require an environmental impact study from SEMARNAT ( saving
you about $15,000 dollars).
If you'd like a name of an attorney specializing in Impact studies with whom you can consult with, send me a u2u.
If you decide you will be building your home under the EIS required size so you can be eligible to skip that permit, maybe you'll have a better idea
of how to divide up your lots for that property. If that size home isn't big enough for you, you may feel it's worth the cost of having an EIS done so
you can build larger.
If I understood correctly, you were thinking about keeping the lots small with multiple fideicomisos. But were you going to keep your home and any
other structures on just one of the lots that would be less than the 2000 sq meter cut off for an investment clause?
Here's part of the very helpful chart made by Marla in this thread
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=31447&pag...
which spells out the formula the Foreign Relations minister uses for the investment requirement for properties:
Land Size/Square Meters Amount to be Spent on Development in Two Years
2001-3000 $250,000 USD
3001-4000 $300,000 USD
4001-5000 $350,000 USD
5001-6000 $400,000 USD
6001-7000 $450,000 USD
7001-8000 $500,000 USD
I don't know how grandiose you plan to make your casa but I can say from personal experience , it doesn't take long for even a little casita to
approach the lowest figure on this chart when you factor in Excavation, material delivery, septic installation, solar and water pumping etc. It's not
cheap to build in the boonies. To try and avoid the investment requirement by doing something screwy may end up being more of a nightmare in the long
run. Another important reason to have an advisor, or 2 on these various issues.
The Foreign Relations Secretary's Investment requirement issue is a murky one and it's difficult to find out who would enforce it, how they would
review your expenditures, and the penalties,etc. We've asked notarios and attorneys over the years and it's like an information void on the subject
because nobody could say because they'd never heard of it being enforced.
I would recommend utilizing specialists for the different issues you'll encounter. We've spent a fortune trying undo messes due to poor guidance by
"professionals".
You'll find many of these topics have also been discussed in the Nomad "Baja Home building" subtopic.
Buena suerte
Pescador - 6-18-2008 at 08:21 PM
toneart is giving great advice and your first step is to talk to the Notario in your area, which will be Loreto. Mexico is rife with he said, she
said, and none of it amounts to anything because if your title is disputed and you go to court and you ask me to come help, my advice is not going to
help at all. There are great problems with ejido privitization in the Ligui / Ensenada Blanca area and the ejido has staged sit ins and occupations.
Just like in the United States, when a liberal judge gets to feeling sorry for the people who you have underpaid and misplaced, it is amazing how
quickly they can throw out all of the paperwork and find you in some sort of non-compliance and award the land and all improvements to the "rightful
owners". The other issue which has been dealt with here on the forum is the PROFEPA environmental permits. I would suggest that you do not do
anything like plant non-native species like fruit trees, dig a septic, move a bush, or do anything without having a clear PROFEPA permit in your hand
as well as the Notarios. I thought that I understood the process and had a very capable Notario involved last year but came to learn that he did not
understand the privitization of ejido land much better than I did. In the process I became very informed and well educated and was able to follow
what he was learning at the same time. It was not that anyone ever tried to mislead me, it was just that they ran into things that they had never run
into before.
You can put more square foot into a fideo, but if you change the lots and they become bigger than the amount allowed then they will do a fideo but
you have to agree to a development clause which can force you to spend a lot of money in development that you may not have planned to spend.
So just remember this is not the United States and what works for land laws in the US has little or no application to what transpires in Mexico. Be
very careful, take no shortcuts, try to get numerous interpretations of the law and facts, and finally don't ever invest more than you can comfortably
loose.
I would read the following report carefully which has a lot of information and would consider contacting Marla Daily who has a real handle on things
in the Loreto area. http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=31447#pid3204...
[Edited on 6-19-2008 by Pescador]
Diver - 6-18-2008 at 08:25 PM
Hmm, I thought it was 2500. Thanks for correcting me.
Good thing I didn't charge for that advice !! 
Looks like you bought 50 meters too much - total of 4050 meters !!?
toneart - 6-18-2008 at 09:01 PM
There is another concern I have: You said you want to straddle parcels when building because it is so close to an arroyo. Have you, or how do you find
out truthfully the history of your property under flood conditions?
ElFaro - 6-18-2008 at 09:18 PM
Everybody here is talking about environmental assessments of lots in regards to native plants, etc.? In the East County of San Diego I know of one
Indian Reservation who needed to get an Environmental Impact Report (EIS) of their land. I was told they simply allowed a herd of cows to graze on
the land for several months if not years thereby stripping most if not all the plants / shrubs that were growing on the property. After the cows
thoroughly stomped and chewed up everything, I'm sure the EIS would'nt turn up a whole lot. Have you considered this for you lots? Get some local
rancher to run his cattle on your property for a spell !!
Scorpimon - 6-19-2008 at 08:55 AM
Thanks all, good stuff, and I am trying to get all possible solutions to this problem. What, no do a corporation comment yet? Of course more
specific situations of how things have and are working in the Loreto area will help the best.
The property was Santa Domingo Ejido land developed and privatized, and the stamped titles are now in the name of a Mexicano friend who is helping in
the purchase until I get it all figured out.
I have worked with Theresa at Loreto Solution on some different things and really like her but I have not heard great things about Notaries and
lawyers in Loreto, so good contacts at a reasonable price are appreciated.
No one has said yet that it is illegal to build on your own property line but the insinuation is that it cannot be done, true? I will sent U2U to
several of you. Thanks
bajatorres - 6-19-2008 at 10:21 AM
Building inspector told us that 7 meter height is maximum for residential purposes, and that there is a 1 meter setback from property line for 1 story
and 2 meter setback for 2 story. If you do build on the property line, there cannot be any windows or openings looking into the property next door. If
you do build with openings, be prepared to close them up in the future.
Bob and jane - 6-19-2008 at 02:52 PM
Just curious, scorpimom: are your lots on the coast south of Ensenada Blanca? That is one of my favorite places in all of Baja. I would second
someone's post here, to be very careful about building anywhere near washes. The water really gushes out of those mountains behind there. And
because there is no road access, are you going to bring all building materials in by boat? And your water and other household items? And you're
aware that we've got sometimes a week at a time here in the winter when it is not advisable to put your boat in the water? I've thought about how it
would be to live there. I love the desert, the beaches, the solitude (though that will likely be changing), good shore fishing and lots of
snorkeling. Great views. But having to depend on a boat for absolutely everything would be just too difficult for me. Maybe I'm lacking a sense of
adventure in my old age. Tere is good help. She got us through some gnarly paperwork---but it took a loooooooooooong time. Good luck!
Scorpimon - 6-19-2008 at 04:19 PM
Yes that is the place. It is beautiful.
I am also very concerned about the arroyos and will have to take many extra precautions.
Not going to do the boat thing at all. Thought about it for all of 1 minute and said no (and yes I have been shore bound on the beach there in the
winter waiting for the winds to calm for up to 8 days. The area is under development, and mostly sold, just go to any reality place in loreto to see.
Some manana a road will be built, and until then I am still working to pay for it all.