BajaNomad - 5-year old zapped by a Scorpion in bed last night....

5-year old zapped by a Scorpion in bed last night....

joel - 6-19-2008 at 09:38 AM

Ok, it's finally happened. After years of spending time in Baja Sur, one of my family got zapped last night by a scorpion.

We were all sound asleep and awoke to my 5 year old son screaming and crying. It took a bit for us to figure out what it was and it wasn't until we found the scorpion that we knew for sure. Fortunately I had a blacklight relatively handy otherwise we would never have found the bugger and it would have been an even more sleepless night.

Given that we've got most of the rest of the summer ahead of us and that's a lot of nights in bed for my 5 year old, I have a few scorpion related questions.

Anyone know what the local, Baja scorpion is called?

Can they climb up bed posts? Anyone heard of the bed legs in water trick? What about duct tape inside out around the posts?

Anyone have any experience with treating the pain? Does ice work to reduce the potency of the venom the way it does with a bee sting?

Thanks,

Joel

bajajazz - 6-19-2008 at 10:17 AM

How is the child? Was medical assistance necessary or sought? I think we'd all like to know what to do in this circumstance.

I have heard that certain scorpions on the mainland can be fatal to children.

The inside-out duct tape ploy sounds good but it might just provide the scorpion with a sticky surface that makes vertical climbing easier.

DianaT - 6-19-2008 at 10:19 AM

Where in Baja are you? That should help someone who knows about these little buggers give you reliable information.

I know that where we are in Baja there are two types of scorpions, one small and one quite large. But, they are not the same as ones elsewhere---not as bad.

I got hit by a small one and it was only a little ow---I think it didn't fully get me, I don't know.

John was nailed by one of the big ones and said a bee sting hurts worse---little swelling and itching for a week.

So, we know there are different types, so I think location is important. I do know the ones in Honduras climb quite well---many slept under nets as they could and did fall from the ceiling.

Sorry about your little guy----hate to see little ones hurt. Ice does help, IMHO as can antihistamines----but for one so young, I would check with a doctor.

Diane

[Edited on 6-19-2008 by jdtrotter]

[Edited on 6-19-2008 by jdtrotter]

joel - 6-19-2008 at 10:22 AM

He seems to be fine. The area of the sting is sensitive. We had to put a bandage over it just to keep his very light shorts from rubbing -- it was too much for him. No other medical attention. There's not much nearby to us. We're in Scorpion Bay.

I have one of those bee sting/snake bite suction kits that are in small yellow boxes at a lot of camping stores. We used that on the bite about 3 or 4 minutes afterwards and then ice followed by a cortizone anti-itch cream. Don't know if it made any difference.

We know a few people who have been stung and said no medical attention was necessary, but in the middle of the night we didn't want to wake anyone up just to find out if/how to lessen the pain from the venom.

[Edited on 6-19-2008 by joel]

[Edited on 6-19-2008 by joel]

rhintransit - 6-19-2008 at 10:29 AM

poor little guy! ouch!!! ice water/cold is recommended for the pain. also 'seek pain relief' try topical benzocaine/lidocaine, oral pain meds...I don't know what is safe for children, sorry. it may be very painful for several days.

I don't know the name of the local scorpions. they vary in size, color, and potency. they tend to get into beds by falling off ceilings, especially thatch type but can crawl up any) and walls, I don't know if they can make it up bedposts but the cans of water can't hurt. in scorpion season I tuck mosquito netting tightly all around/under the mattress and leave it in place day and night. shake out, inspect sheets frequently. it makes for hotter sleeping, but much safer. position beds for breeze and/or fans and away from walls. Home Defense is a good product, I use it monthly and find dead scorpions in almost any location, kitchen, showers, bedrooms, etc. I've also used a stronger product, only available on line in the states, called demand cs (www.doyourownpestcontrol.com) with great results. having a can of wasp/hornet spray handy...the kind that shoots 10-20 ft...is good for the occasional scorpion on the wall out of reach. of course with kids and pets and ecological concerns you have to weigh going the chemical route. that's a tough one.

also, if you don't have one already, get a venom extractor (suction cup thingie with plunger and various size 'heads' to fit over the bite)...mine is made by Sawyer, stocked at Walmart and pharmacies in the states, have someone bring one down for you if you can. good for all insect bites, sting rays, use as soon after bite as possible.

ELINVESTIG8R - 6-19-2008 at 10:31 AM

Joel I will not offer any advice but just know I feel for the little guy. I hope he recovers quickly.

NOTE: I just thought of something. How about some wide double sticky tape on the bed frame legs to trap the little boogers before they can climb up. Kind of like those sticky rat traps.

[Edited on 6-19-2008 by ELINVESTI8]

Pescador - 6-19-2008 at 10:39 AM

We used to have a few show in the house but when we did an extermination spray, and now we only have found a couple of dead ones. They seem to show up more when the warm weather starts again and we almost never see them in the winter.

Bob H - 6-19-2008 at 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by joel
There's not much nearby to us. We're in Scorpion Bay.

Poor little guy. I'm glad to hear he's feeling better. What a story he will have to tell all his friends.

I guess the name of the place fits!

Here's a nice web site I came across of your area... NICE!

http://www.scorpionbay.net/

Bob H

shari - 6-19-2008 at 10:54 AM

sorry for your niños pain but I think what is worse is the aftermath worrying about getting zapped again. When we find scorpions in the bed, I just set our tent up outside and sleep in it all summer...I find it hard to sleep imagining scorpions climbing up my legs at night...any little sand in the bed feels like a scorpion to me. the mosquito netting sounds like a good idea to me.

Bajagypsy - 6-19-2008 at 10:54 AM

Our oldest son got bit last time we were down with the kids, it stung his leg, and before he realized what it was he swatted it so it got his hand as well. It was one of those tiny yellowish white ones that got him.

Ice helped, we gave him antihistimines (sp??) as soon as we could. Tylenol for pain. It was tender for a few days. Unless he had trouble breathing right away, I would think he is ok.

Sharksbaja - 6-19-2008 at 11:18 AM

"When we find scorpions in the bed, I just set our tent up outside and sleep in it all summer"

:wow:

How many summers would that be??

Freebird - 6-19-2008 at 12:06 PM

These are not scorpions... this bugs are ALACRAN in spanish. They're smaller than scorpions... and for what I understand it's venom is not as deadly as of scorpions.

Better you should take your boy to a doctor :?:

[Edited on 6-19-2008 by Freebird]

[Edited on 6-19-2008 by Freebird]

DENNIS - 6-19-2008 at 12:52 PM

We have 'em all over the place. Almost grabbed one this morning. I'm assuming the one you are referring to is small, one inch or a bit longer in length, skinny, brownish gray.
I once put on my shoe and felt this hot, very slightly painful sensation on my foot. Sure enough, one was in my shoe. Like I said, the sensation was more heat than pain and it went away in about thirty minutes. They arn't a life threat.
Now, if you see one of those big fat yellow brown nasty Sonora Desert suckers, be careful. They will ruin your day.

DENNIS - 6-19-2008 at 12:54 PM

Freebird.....

Just for you..

http://www.spanishdict.com/translate/alacran

DianaT - 6-19-2008 at 01:09 PM

An interesting site about SCORPIONS

They say there are 1300 different species of which about 20 that can cause you real trouble. In the US, there are about 90 species and only one that is really nasty --- the one in Arizionia and northern Mexico.

It was also interesting to read about how they can produce two different venoms---one worse than the other, the first one being a warning. That might explain why the hit I took was really nothing---not that the ones in our area are really nasty, but our friend who works at the hospital said the little ones usually hurts a lot---

I imagine the ones in Scorpion Bay are pretty much the same as the ones in Bahia Asuncion.

Hope you son is MUCH better

Diane

[Edited on 6-19-2008 by jdtrotter]

Very Sorry About Your Son's Distress

Gypsy Jan - 6-19-2008 at 01:21 PM

Before we hired our monthly fumigadora service, we had a lot of problems with ant swarms, spider hatches and other insect invasions.

But, when it came to scorpions, the house cats and garage cats took care of them all on their own - we would find the remains all over the place.

Maybe, if you adopt a Baja cat or two they will do the job for your family.

[Edited on 6-19-2008 by Gypsy Jan]

marv sherrill - 6-19-2008 at 01:26 PM

Thats a real bummer for a little guy to get hit - I've had 3 stings, they do hurt but there really is no first aid but to avoid infection and watch for an anaphylactic reation - Big ones hurt a lot more than the little ones! We sleep out side with a mosquito net that hangs over the bed - it seems to keep out a lot of little creatures.

joel - 6-19-2008 at 01:57 PM

Thanks for all of the thoughts and advice.

He's feeling much better. We decided to celebrate his "coming of age" with a special trip around the town markets looking for some sweets. He's sort of proud of it now. His older brother is wondering if we will still celebrate if there is another sting and even if they get stung on purpose. It seems the pain and the fear have subsided.

Relevant and important information:

Sharksbaja - 6-19-2008 at 02:07 PM

http://www.emedicine.com/MED/topic2081.htm

bajamigo - 6-19-2008 at 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by joel

Can they climb up bed posts? Anyone heard of the bed legs in water trick? What about duct tape inside out around the posts?

Thanks,

Joel

I was once stationed in Biloxi, MS where the cucarachas get to be the size of Volkswagens. The leg of every bed in the BOQ was standing in a large coffee can filled with water. This at least prevented the buggers from climbing up the bedposts. Didn't stop them from falling off the ceiling, however.

Wingnut - 6-19-2008 at 04:58 PM

joel: I'm from Arizona and we have a lot of scorpions here, one little greenish/yellow bugger is very venomous. To help keep repeat offendors away from your domicile you need to take precautions outside the house as well as inside. First, outside, remove and dead vegetation within 5 feet of the residence, remove any dead wood piles or other trash areas more than 20 feet from the house. Scorpions like wet, damp cool places with lots of rotten vegetation or wood as cover. If you have plants like Ivy or such that climb or attach itself to the walls, spray the base and any large patches with insecticide.

Inside, check all doors, windows and anyother potential openings (like dryer vent or ceiling vents). Where possible, seal openings or place screening over opening to prevent access. Once done, completely go through the house moving anything they could hide in or behind and fumigate the house (take a day at the beach when fumigating). If you have an attic, pay special attention to the eaves, very often small openings may be in the eaves to vent the attic and they need to be sealed or screened.

Good luck, and I doubt the version of the scorpions you are dealing with are very venomous but they can still be painful stings, especially for children who don't understand it.

maspacifico - 6-19-2008 at 05:55 PM

Benadryl! Antihistamine. The magic drug for bites and stings. It doesn't help the initial pain but things go better afterward. 5 year old is tough though and not sure I'd give it to him without a hospital close in case of a bad reaction. After living 20 years with centipedes and scorpions in Hawaii and now in Baja with the same critters you just learn to look where you are putting your hands and feet! Lots of people do a bed check before crawling in though they do manage to get in afterwards! Make it a game when you put him down.

And, this is the kiss of death, I've never been hit! My wife seems to be the magnet. When my son was 10 he picked his trunks off the ground and got stung by a scorpion......I told him it was better than putting them on.

joel - 6-20-2008 at 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
http://www.emedicine.com/MED/topic2081.htm

This was very helpful.

Here is their recommended treatment:

# Local treatment is discussed as follows:
#

* A negative-pressure extraction device (ie, the extractor) may be useful, although the benefit is unproven. The extractor creates a negative pressure of 1 atm. Apply it to the sting site after incision. Oral extraction is contraindicated.
* Use ice bags to reduce pain and to slow the absorption of venom via vasoconstriction. This is most effective during the first 2 hours following the sting.
* Immobilize the affected part in a functional position below the level of the heart to delay venom absorption.
* Calm the patient to lower the heart rate and blood pressure, thus limiting the spread of the venom.
* For medical delay secondary to remoteness, consider applying a lymphatic-venous compression wrap 1 inch proximal to the sting site to reduce superficial venous and lymphatic flow of the venom but not to stop the arterial flow. Only remove this wrap when the provider is ready to administer systemic support. The drawback of this wrap is that it may intensify the local effects of the venom.
* Apply a topical or local anesthetic agent to the wound to decrease paresthesia; this tends to be more effective than opiates.
* Administer local wound care and topical antibiotic to the wound.
* Administer tetanus prophylaxis.
* Administer systemic antibiotics if signs of secondary infection occur.

DianaT - 6-20-2008 at 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by joel

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
http://www.emedicine.com/MED/topic2081.htm

Good information for those really dangerous ones like in Arizonia and northern Mexico, but some of it would be over-kill for many scorpions. But allergic reactions and infection are always a possibility.

Off-topic a little, IMHO, everyone should have a tetanus shot if you have not had one for a while---scorpions and cactus thorns are punture wounds.

Bob and Susan - 6-20-2008 at 09:09 AM

oladulce...
what about it...

tentanus shot????

i haven't been stung YET but...it's just a matter of time

DianaT - 6-20-2008 at 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
oladulce...
what about it...

tentanus shot????

i haven't been stung YET but...it's just a matter of time

I hope oladulce responds, but I know our doctor told us she thinks it is a good idea for everyone to have a booster every 10 years and another shot if really wounded.

Was really glad I had had mine when I stepped on a cactus in an area where there were lots of cows.

Diane

[Edited on 6-20-2008 by jdtrotter]

CaboRon - 6-20-2008 at 10:11 AM

Keeping up with your tetnus innoculations is a very wise idea. Last fall at the Club Crucerus flu clinic (at the Marina de La Paz) they also offered tetnus shots. Great club by the way !

CaboRon

Mango - 6-20-2008 at 10:24 AM

Wingnut, that is some good advice regarding limiting the things that draw Scorpions to your house and how to prevent them from getting in.

Generally, whenever I travel in southern Mexico I bring a mosquito net that hangs over my bed and about 30 feet of thin nylon cord to hang it with. Many mosquito nets include a hook to hang the thing from the ceiling; but, often ceilings can be too high to reach or a hook seems to permanent for a hotel. I usually wind up stringing the line across the room from a door hinge, curtain rod, etc.. and then hang the net from the middle of that line.

Make sure to tuck it in well under the mattress so bugs cant crawl or fly up the net at night. Shaking out the sheets before going to bed is another thing you want to do in buggy areas or times of the year.

You can find moquito nets from various sources. In tropical regions you will find that the models the hang off of the 4 bedposts tend to be popular. For traveling the single line/hang nets pack up small.

Here is a link to the net I have. It covers a queen/king (although a bigger net might be better for permanent use on a king) They also have one for a twin bed, etc...

http://www.rei.com/product/729005

A mosquito net might be a bit much for some; but, its handy to have around when that spider you saw just before going to bed escaped any you have know idea where it is. :lol:

oladulce - 6-20-2008 at 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
oladulce...
what about it...

tentanus shot????

i haven't been stung YET but...it's just a matter of time

Bob, I wouldn't run out and get a tetanus booster simply because you might get a scorpion sting someday. In your case, all of the hands-on projects you're doing at your resort on a daily basis puts you at risk for a wound that could be infected with the tetanus bacterial spores. For this reason, and the one mentioned below, Yes you and Susan want to keep up on your Tetanus boosters at least every 10 years.

Tetanus bacteria are anaerobic and require unoxygenated environments to grow in which is why you usually think of stepping on a rusty nail or other deep puncture wounds associated with tetanus infection. But scorpion stings, and stingray stabbings and almost any break in the skin can become contaminated if the conditions are right.

I think everybody who lives or travels in Baja or BCS should be extra conscientious about their preventative health measures. Whether it's a Rural clinic or a big city hospital in Mexico, I wouldn't want to chance that if i ended up there with something as unusual as tetanus symptoms, they would recognize it in time to prevent my demise. Absolutely important if you live in, or frequent remote areas where there would be a delay in transporting you to a medical facility.

Tetanus boosters (dT) for adults are actually a combination of a diphtheria and tetanus immunization in one shot. Kids get their childhood vaccines and then at age 5-7 should get a booster that includes Tetanus, Diptheria, and Pertussis (DPT ). After age 7, everyone should have a dT booster every 10 years.

[Edited on 6-21-2008 by oladulce]

joel - 6-20-2008 at 09:05 PM

Just to follow-up on preventative measures, I went outside with a blacklight last night after putting the kids to bed. I found 11 scorpions within a 15 foot radius of the room we're staying in. I suspect that the concrete walls, which retain heat so well, are a draw for the scorps.

oladulce - 6-20-2008 at 09:37 PM

Don't know if scorpions are as prevalent in other parts of the peninsula as they are in San Juanico but when we were on gringo hill we'd find a scorpion under every rock or just about anything that had been sitting on the ground. Leave a piece of plywood sitting out overnight and there'd be colony under there in the morning.

We'd do a flashlight "perimeter check" before laying in lounge chairs to stargaze on our roof deck and there'd always be scorpions on the garage walls.

We're now located about a mile away, outside of town . We still see them, but probably only half as many as there were closer to town.

scorp.jpg - 49kB

joel - 6-20-2008 at 09:41 PM

I've gone hunting with the blacklight out at the campground and there are very few relative to what I've found on Gringo Hill.

Bob and Susan - 6-21-2008 at 06:55 AM

allright!!!

where is the BEST place to get a good BLACKLIGHT ???

have to have one...you are making me a beliver :lol:

oladulce - 6-21-2008 at 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
allright!!!

where is the BEST place to get a good BLACKLIGHT ???

have to have one...you are making me a beliver :lol:

oh good. I can send BigWooo over to join you on nighttime bug expeditions. I'm sure he gets lonely when he takes off with a flashlight in search of cool bugs.

From inside the house or camper I'll often hear "Hey, come look at this!" coming from somewhere in the inky blackness.

me trying to sound enthusiastic "oh yes dear, that's a nice one :rolleyes:

"

Safe is one thing, but I really don't want to know what's lurking out there in the night or I'll be sitting indian-style in my chair all the time, instead of just some of the time.

DENNIS - 6-21-2008 at 08:11 AM

These little suckers up here are attracted to moisture as well. The one in my shoe was there because I'd just washed them and they were drying on a patio table. In hot weather, I've found a few hanging out below my garafón, hoping I'll spill a little on the floor. I've found them around toilets.
Again, these only hurt a little bit for a little while....nothing like that nasty POS in Ola's post above. That type of Scorpion has to be treated with lots of respect. Fear, in fact.

Bob and Susan - 6-21-2008 at 08:23 AM

i'm buying a blacklight flashlight RIGHT now on ebay!!!
$13.50 usa

fear is correct :lol:

bigjohn - 6-21-2008 at 08:58 AM

Joel,

How many of those eleven you found that night lived to be found another day?? :lol:

joel - 6-21-2008 at 09:05 AM

None of the 11 survived. I found another 4 last night.

I've got a LED dual UV and regular flashlight on eBay. I can't say I recommend it, but it works and it's nice to be able to go back and forth between UV and regular light.

CaboRon - 6-21-2008 at 09:08 AM

Here's a link to a really powerful LED blacklight ....

http://www.blacklightsusa.com/blacklights1.html?gclid=CIiJxK...

CaboRon

Does anyone have knowledge of where you can buy similer products in Baja Sur ? How about Home Despot ?

[Edited on 6-21-2008 by CaboRon]

ELINVESTIG8R - 6-21-2008 at 09:11 AM

Fear the Arizona Bark Scorpion! They say those can be fatal. Do they have those kind of deadly ones in La Baja? What type of scorpion is the one stinging people in La Baja that appears to be no big deal. Any pictures?

CaboRon - 6-21-2008 at 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTI8
Fear the Arizona Bark Scorpion! They say those can be fatal. Do they have those kind of deadly ones in La Baja? What type of scorpion is the one stinging people in La Baja that appears to be no big deal. Any pictures?

The only ones I have seen in Todos Santos are one to three inches long and the smaller they are, the more translucent.

Of course, I have not lived through an "insect season" .... yet .

CaboRon

DENNIS - 6-21-2008 at 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTI8
What type of scorpion is the one stinging people in La Baja that appears to be no big deal. Any pictures?

No pics, David. It's a scrawny, brown to gray little guy. I've seen small babies, I guess, but nothing longer than one and a half inches after being stepped on.

joel - 6-21-2008 at 09:33 AM

This is one that I zapped last night. It's about 2 inches long. The one that got my son was about 3 inches long and I've seen them 5 inches here before.

[Edited on 6-21-2008 by joel]

IMG_5691.JPG - 40kB

DianaT - 6-21-2008 at 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oladulce

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
allright!!!

where is the BEST place to get a good BLACKLIGHT ???

have to have one...you are making me a beliver :lol:

"

Safe is one thing, but I really don't want to know what's lurking out there in the night or I'll be sitting indian-style in my chair all the time, instead of just some of the time.

I agree! There are somethings I am better off not knowing or not only would I be sitting with my legs up, I would NEVER sleep.

We have two species in Bahia Asuncion, from what our friends tell us. It was one of the little ones that got me, and one of the big ones that got John. He ran to find me so I could see the one that got him---I was thrilled. :rolleyes:

Diane

ELINVESTIG8R - 6-21-2008 at 10:33 AM

Thanks everyone. But, just to get clarification! Does La Baja have scorpions as deadly as the Arizona Bark Scorpions that can kill you?

Even though I asked the question before getting the answer I popped over to the site Ron pointed out and bought a 14 LED Black Light for my next trip to see Mama.

Those are some nasty boogers aren't they. Where I live I have Black Widow Spiders the size of half dollars legs and all.

ELINVESTIG8R - 6-21-2008 at 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by grover

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTI8...just to get clarification! Does La Baja have scorpions as deadly as the Arizona Bark Scorpions that can kill you?...

Yes.

From the same site I posted above:

ARIZONA BARK SCORPION

In the USA the bark scorpion is found in southeastern California, Arizona, Nevada, southern Utah, and southwestern New Mexico. It is also found throughout the Baja Peninsula and western Sonora in Mexico.

Thank you Grover. I did not see that before you changed the color to blood red to catch my attention. Forgive me as I am an old man. :lol:

DENNIS - 6-21-2008 at 02:05 PM

All of those things above may be Gods Creatures but, they need to be stomped.

ELINVESTIG8R - 6-21-2008 at 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
All of those things above may be Gods Creatures but, they need to be stomped.

Agreed!

Halboo - 6-22-2008 at 08:17 AM

Regarding the bed posts in the cans; I have some friends who live in Cruz de Huanacaxtle mainland and as scorpion defense they have all their bedposts sitting in cans of Kerosene as opposed to water.........

DianaT - 6-22-2008 at 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halboo
Regarding the bed posts in the cans; I have some friends who live in Cruz de Huanacaxtle mainland and as scorpion defense they have all their bedposts sitting in cans of Kerosene as opposed to water.........

Yuk! Can't imagine.

ELINVESTIG8R - 6-22-2008 at 09:47 AM

Quote:

Ahhh, the uses of Kerosene or as I knew it in Mexico "Coal oil." It was used on us as kids as a delouser and I have seen it used as stated above. Just be careful not to smoke if you were recently deloused and never, ever smoke in bed or else...