BajaNomad - Well, it looks like the other shoe has dropped on Mexican gasoline

Well, it looks like the other shoe has dropped on Mexican gasoline

fulano - 6-21-2008 at 11:16 AM

"Piden no vender gasolina a turistas"
[Asks to stop selling gasoline to tourists]

"MÉXICO, D.F., 20 de Junio. El director general de Petróleos Mexicanos, Jesús Reyes Heroles, señaló que es necesario limitar la venta de gasolina a los estadounidenses que cargan el combustible en las gasolineras de las ciudades de la frontera norte del país, para que el combustible no se termine. "

[Mexico City, June 20. The director general of Petroleos Mexicanos, Jesus Reyes Heroles, said that it was necessary to restrict the sale of gasoline to Americans who purchase fuel in gas stations in the northern border cities, so that the fuel is not depleted. ]

The Mexican people who make a living from the tourist trade along the border must be thrilled to read this one.
:rolleyes:

http://el-mexicano.info/nota.aspx?idNota=308974&esSecc=t...

THEY HAVE FINALLY LOST THEIR MINDS IN MEXICO

ELINVESTIG8R - 6-21-2008 at 11:20 AM

bajaguy - 6-21-2008 at 11:24 AM

Fulano...."restrict" as in limit the amount sold, or "restrict" as in no sales to tourists????

Udo - 6-21-2008 at 11:29 AM

WELL, AT LEAST IT'S IN THE NORTHERN CITIES OF BAJA (TIJUANA, ROSARITO, TECATE, MEXICALI). HOPEFULLY IT WON'T AFFECT THOSE WHO TRAVEL SOUTH OF THERE. AND AT THE VERY LEAST WE WON'T BE GETTING CHEATED BY THE ATTENDANTS IN THOSE NORTHERN CITIES.[/B]

DianaT - 6-21-2008 at 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Fulano...."restrict" as in limit the amount sold, or "restrict" as in no sales to tourists????

It is not clear----hope Baja Cactus knows something about this lastest development and can clarify what is happening.

fulano - 6-21-2008 at 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Fulano...."restrict" as in limit the amount sold, or "restrict" as in no sales to tourists????

Quien sabe?

Let me tell you some thing about Mexico, in case nobody has figured it out...and I am not trying to be disparaging of the Mexican people -- who are good people for the most part.

The United States is a meritocracy. In a meritocracy, usually appointments are made and responsibilities are given based on demonstrated talent and ability. Mexico is not a meritocracy. It is a mixture of a plutocracy (wealth), oligarchy (class privilege) and nepotism (family connections). So in Mexico, you find that people in very high place of authority tend to be very mediocre...yeomen at best.

So, you get these people putting their feet in their mouths all the time, because they are not smart. That is why you have the head of PEMEX saying in public that Mexico should stop selling gas to tourists or, like in my other post, the Attorney General of Baja telling the US to stop deporting Mexican criminals back to Mexico.

To answer your question, there is no rule restricting sales of gasoline to tourists. It is just another marooon talking.

Woooosh - 6-21-2008 at 11:56 AM

Wow. You don't see bold caps too often on this board.

Well gas this weekend at the border is a moot point.

The sole tanker this week (that pulled in this morning) went away without unloading. It was sitting low at the waterline showing it was full of something but left the same way and no other has come since.

Maybe that PeMex idiot (nod to fulano) wants the shortage to get a little worse so they can justify cutting off tourist gas. There were actually people pointing at the tanker as it pulled away- so it's hastyy departure did go unnoticed by the mexican locals.

[Edited on 6-21-2008 by Woooosh]

DianaT - 6-21-2008 at 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fulano
[ It is a mixture of a plutocracy (wealth), oligarchy (class privilege) and nepotism (family connections). So in Mexico, you find that people in very high place of authority tend to be very mediocre...yeomen at best.

Sounds like the United States for the last seven years. :lol:

Will still be interesting to hear from Baja Cactus even if this guy is just blowing smoke.

Diane

comitan - 6-21-2008 at 12:09 PM

I think that person used a poor choice of words when he said tourist what he is trying to do is stop the people from the US coming over and buying cheap gas, he also said limit not stop!!!!!!!!!!!!

Woooosh - 6-21-2008 at 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

Quote:

Sounds like the United States for the last seven years. :lol:

Will still be interesting to hear from Baja Cactus even if this guy is just blowing smoke.

Diane

That was great Diane! Dead on. .

It's going to get worse on the U.S. side once food prices adjust to the Great Midwest Flood of 2008 and as Israel follows its histroy and blows up Iran- which will push gas to $10 or more

What will Mexico do when wholesale food and fuel prices double? They have fixed the prices on some items for six months- but can they afford it and what happens when that runs out?

Mexico just figured out it can't afford to subsidize gas at the pump to everyone. It's going to figure out it can't do it with food too.

fulano - 6-21-2008 at 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
I think that person used a poor choice of words when he said tourist what he is trying to do is stop the people from the US coming over and buying cheap gas, he also said limit not stop!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm curious how you could possibly understand from what he said precisely what he is trying to do....and limit could mean limit to zero. However, by saying he used a "poor choice of words", that only supports my discussion on mediocrity.

I'll tell you WHAT he is trying to do. He is trying to pass on the responsibilty for the gasoline shortage fiasco to somebody other than himself. That much is obvious.

comitan - 6-21-2008 at 12:32 PM

First of all its not enforceable, I presume they would be looking for foreign license plates. Half the autos in northern BC have foreign plates either because they haven't imported or they have two residences one being in the US or a US address for the plates.

fulano - 6-21-2008 at 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
First of all its not enforceable, I presume they would be looking for foreign license plates. Half the autos in northern BC have foreign plates either because they haven't imported or they have two residences one being in the US or a US address for the plates.

Precisely. It would require having gas station attendants check visas and passports. Now go back to my post about marooons in high places talking.

ELINVESTIG8R - 6-21-2008 at 12:53 PM

I am sure someone from on high put their foot in the area of his body where the sun does not shine after saying what he is alleged to have said. He is a "Maroon" If he thought up the statement and even a bigger one for saying it.

CaboRon - 6-21-2008 at 12:58 PM

Quote:

Wouldn't this be a NAFTA violation ?

CaboRon

bancoduo - 6-21-2008 at 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

Quote:

Wouldn't this be a NAFTA violation ?

CaboRon

DENNIS - 6-21-2008 at 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fulano

Precisely. It would require having gas station attendants check visas and passports.

More likely they would be checking the portrature on the bills they are slipped as a pre-tip.

DENNIS - 6-21-2008 at 01:47 PM

I actually think they will end up with a "guest allowance".

Funny, strange thing though.....What with all these hordes of gas buyers crossing the border, we haven't heard of extraordinary waits at the borderto return. It seems unchanged.
I'm not buying all this crap yet. There's something wrong.

Cypress - 6-21-2008 at 02:15 PM

fulano, You've got a good take on the current situation.

Sharksbaja - 6-21-2008 at 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I actually think they will end up with a "guest allowance".

Funny, strange thing though.....What with all these hordes of gas buyers crossing the border, we haven't heard of extraordinary waits at the borderto return. It seems unchanged.
I'm not buying all this crap yet. There's something wrong.

Ya think? Maybe they, the media, are really jealous of you crafty border people and this is a good way to instill fear. You know how that works!

Otherwise I blame the folks(whatever their names are) generating the global oil profiteering should be darn proud and happy. With their earnings that is and not a real shortage or oil crisis.

comitan - 6-21-2008 at 02:40 PM

Sharks this should be another thread, but are you feeling the pinch because of the fuel prices?

DENNIS - 6-21-2008 at 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Ya think? Maybe they, the media, are really jealous of you crafty border people and this is a good way to instill fear. You know how that works!

OOPS...You're on the wrong side of the border. This is a Mexico thing. I can't begin to imagine the Mexican media being jealous of "us crafty border people". Oh, and thanks for not saying "Ilk". I hate that word. It reminds me of the word,"Puke" and, you know how that works.

MexicoGringoGuy - 6-21-2008 at 04:26 PM

I'm Not sure the Mexico Subsidises it's gas as much as the fact that its a state ran oil company so Billions of Dollars arent going to Oil companies..thats why the price is cheaper...??? Granted, It would probably be even cheaper if the government didnt steal the money from what little profits they do get! I have heard that Pemex has been the governments cash co for years, BUT instead of putting profits back into the compnay, Now its so outdated they cant improve themself

bill erhardt - 6-21-2008 at 04:27 PM

fulano........ You obviously have not spent much time in Washington, D.C.

Quote:

Originally posted by fulano

"The United States is a meritocracy. In a meritocracy, usually appointments are made and responsibilities are given based on demonstrated talent and ability."

Jack Swords - 6-21-2008 at 04:42 PM

Mexico does subsidize gasoline along with some other commodities; see

http://banderasnews.com/0805/edat-mexgamble.htm

fulano - 6-21-2008 at 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bill erhardt
fulano........ You obviously have not spent much time in Washington, D.C.

I'm talking about appointed administrators. The great sea of technocrats that run the country day-to-day. In Washington you find mainly elected politicians. The good thing is that the politicians get voted out of office every few years. The bad thing is that new politicians get voted into office every few years.

:lol:

bill erhardt - 6-21-2008 at 07:26 PM

fulano..... If you think that the appointed administrators, the "great sea of technocrats", as you would have it, that run the US of A day-to-day are appointed solely based on merit, to the exclusion of wealth, class, and connections then you live in a dream world. They are appointed, after all, by the very elected politicians that you disparage. Many, as you describe their Mexican counterparts, ".....tend to be very mediocre". And as to throwing stones at government bureaucrats "putting their feet in their mouth all the time, because they are not smart", where did you say you are from?

mtgoat666 - 6-21-2008 at 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bill erhardt
fulano..... If you think that the appointed administrators, the "great sea of technocrats", as you would have it, that run the US of A day-to-day are appointed solely based on merit, to the exclusion of wealth, class, and connections then you live in a dream world. They are appointed, after all, by the very elected politicians that you disparage. Many, as you describe their Mexican counterparts, ".....tend to be very mediocre". And as to throwing stones at government bureaucrats "putting their feet in their mouth all the time, because they are not smart", where did you say you are from?

the "best" appointees/cronies come with nicknames, such as Brownie, Skooter, Turd Blossom, Big Time and Rummy

Bajaboy - 6-21-2008 at 09:46 PM

Ah, if you're not getting market value for a commodity then you're are subsidizing it...end of story.

Zac

fulano - 6-21-2008 at 11:49 PM

Quote:

I come from that place where we debate with facts, not sweeping, unsupported generalizations. If you would care to provide support for your assertions, we would welcome it. If you just want to tell us the system works the way you say it does because everybody but me knows it, you will not get very far with me.

To start you down the path of enlightenment, here is a study by some Mexican graduate students which compares and contrasts the US and Mexican Civil Service Systems:

http://www.cmq.edu.mx/docinvest/document/DI80301.pdf

Kindly present some kind of authoritative support for your rebuttal arguments. Thanks in advance.

bill erhardt - 6-22-2008 at 01:23 AM

Ah, fulano...... guide to the path of enlightenment.

"You are doing a heckuva job, Brownie."

bill erhardt - 6-22-2008 at 06:38 AM

And, certainly no sweeping generalizations from you.

Quote:

Originally posted by fulano

"Let me tell you some thing about Mexico, in case nobody has figured it out...and I am not trying to be disparaging of the Mexican people -- who are good people for the most part.

The United States is a meritocracy. In a meritocracy, usually appointments are made and responsibilities are given based on demonstrated talent and ability. Mexico is not a meritocracy. It is a mixture of a plutocracy (wealth), oligarchy (class privilege) and nepotism (family connections). So in Mexico, you find that people in very high place of authority tend to be very mediocre...yeomen at best.

So, you get these people putting their feet in their mouths all the time........."

DianaT - 6-22-2008 at 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fulano

Quote:

Fulano,
That is an interesting paper---compares Mexico to one county in Ohio. And, it could be easily used to support both sides of the argument---it is like most academic papers written by grad students along with professors --

A thesis is set forth----one that the professors know is probably "true"

Reseach is done and "relavant" research is used. The research that supports the thesis. The same original documents and research can be and is read differently by different people---interpreted differently.

Grad students do not disagree with professors, not if they want their advanced degree.

In this study, it talks about politics being in both systems. And, again, it is talking about the basic Civil Service programs at a county level.

It does NOT talk about the political appointees who ARE appointed to be the heads of these Civil Service agencies. They are very different from the career civil servant who stays for years.

Besides, the focus of the paper is the PROBLEMS with both systems. Again, it could be used in many different ways.

Back to looking for poison meds from China.

Diane

[Edited on 6-22-2008 by jdtrotter]

fulano - 6-22-2008 at 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bill erhardt
And, certainly no sweeping generalizations from you.

...and I also posted a supporting document. Meanwhile, you have posted nothing on subject, just an ad hominem attack on me. Do you intend to post anything to support your position, Bill?

I can wait forever.

In the meantime, here is some more reading from a think tank , e.g. not graduate students:

"In Mexico, although the majority of the organizations possess formal procedures to publicize recruitment, in actual practice it is personal contacts and informal channels that constitute the dominant paths toward access to public employment. Membership in cliques located close to power ends up being the determining factor."

"In Mexico, a formal system exists for the evaluation of performance, which includes planning, follow-up and performance evaluation, as well as feedback to the employee, but it is not applied in an even minimally systematic manner."

"In Mexico, post descriptions clearly define the activities and technical capability requirements they involve, but are rarely employed to hire or promote individuals."

"In Mexico, the most important criteria for hiring and promoting staff, when these decisions aren’t purely arbitrary, are the number of years of seniority, knowledge of the Administration and loyalty. Considerations of technical capability and mastery of skills and aptitudes are secondary. At the same time, the politicalization of public employment produces a high rotation, with the consequent decapitalization effect."

"In Mexico, the allocation of economic incentives is highly subjective and linked to discretionary decisions of the superior, without appearing, in general, to be aimed at stimulating performance. The dominant incentives for trusted staffers are related to membership in cliques and to maintaining the confidence of the chief. For the lower staff, there is a prevalence of the labor organization logic that relates professional stability and progress to membership, rather than to performance or learning."

http://idbdocs.iadb.org/wsdocs/getdocument.aspx?docnum=62366...

fulano - 6-22-2008 at 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter
Fulano,
That is an interesting paper---compares Mexico to one county in Ohio. And, it could be easily used to support both sides of the argument---it is like most academic papers written by grad students along with professors --

Diane, I hope by now you noticed you have created a list of items that could be wrong with the referenced material, but you did not actually provide any specific facts as to where it is actually wrong.

Do you have any facts to present?

toneart - 6-22-2008 at 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fulano

Quote:

How about experience in reading academic papers? Common, relax a little on your fact requirement, Fulano. It is good when facts are presented, but in this forum there is room for opinions expressed. If you back all your statements by "fact", then you hold that superior opinion of yourself. Some others may be impressed. :smug:

DianaT - 6-22-2008 at 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart

Quote:

Originally posted by fulano

Quote:

Toneart, you are so correct.

"Facts" yes those illusive little things. Even in writing about history, maybe 5% facts---

Regarding this thread, the only "fact" is that the official in Mexico City said something about the need to limit the selling of gas to -----

well, wait a minute. Did he really say exactly what was written? Was there other meaning behind his words? Was it translated perfectly with all intent intact?

Only other possible fact in this thread is that politics are alive and well in the US and in Mexico.

And, as far as using "Think Tanks" for facts, well, which "Think Tank" is correct?

Opinion? Yes, we have lots of that around here.

Diane

[Edited on 6-22-2008 by jdtrotter]

toneart - 6-22-2008 at 12:19 PM

Quote:

[

Thanks, Diane.
I already have too many facts crowding my addled brain. I am now going outside and bang my head against the house. I hope to come back to this forum free of the clutter.

:spingrin:

Gadget - 6-22-2008 at 12:23 PM

Quote:

[
Sounds like the United States for the last seven years. :lol:

Diane

You got that right, on both sides of the isle.

We can't claim to have the sharpest tools in the shed running things at any level of the gov anymore.

But heh, WE keep electing them :?:

fulano - 6-22-2008 at 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter
well, wait a minute. Did he really say exactly what was written? Was there other meaning behind his words? Was it translated perfectly with all intent intact?

Gee, maybe we can further obfuscate the realization that you can only post innuendos as responses by further debating the meaning of "meaning"?

Do you guys have any other red herrings you want to run through this thread to hide your lack of depth? Perhaps we can debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? The true meaning of the "immaculate conception"? Global warming?

DianaT - 6-22-2008 at 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fulano

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter
well, wait a minute. Did he really say exactly what was written? Was there other meaning behind his words? Was it translated perfectly with all intent intact?

Yes, you are correct, and obviously far superior to everyone else---all of what you wrote is 100% correct, and all of it based on facts. :rolleyes:

Now it will be interesting to watch what Pemex and the Mexican Government do about their oil and gas problems.

Still looking for Baja Cactus to chime in with his take on this matter.

Diane

fulano - 6-22-2008 at 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter
Yes, you are correct, and obviously far superior to everyone else---all of what you wrote is 100% correct, and all of it based on facts.

It's good to be the king.

Zei gezundt!!
:lol:

toneart - 6-22-2008 at 05:34 PM

Fusano,

Well........yes! An obfuscatory debate on the meaning of meaning would be a Koan that would delight my Zen Master. However, just when I think I've got it, he would laugh and show me what an idiot I am. :spingrin:

I'm sure you would be kinder in your response. :saint:

As for your other suggested topics, please begin with facts to back up your opening statements. What if one doesn't believe in Angels? Please elucidate (or illuminate). How about pinheads? Surely there is more than one meaning for that word. Do Angels dance on pinheads? I knew an Angel once who danced naked and left her hat on. I couldn't back that statement up, but I did give the story to Randy Newman and he wrote a song about it.

toneart - 6-22-2008 at 05:44 PM

More....

"Immaculate Conception" would have to be performed with latex and that would defeat the concept. I'll have to take The Good Book's word on that one....a lotta fact in there.

"Global Warming"? Naw.................what was I thinking? I was damned cold this winter.....(to borrow from the Republican book of factual retorts). Yep! Jeez, we really couldn't get much going in that debate. Can't manipulate that ol' book of facts. :rolleyes: