Turtles for food

At family events all over Baja... it is a delicacy (so I am told)!

I know there's a well-known restaurant in La Paz that's served my friends turtle soup every time they've asked for it. But it's an under the table thing, not on the menu. If I know of ONE place, then it's got to be happening at a lot of places.

Sadly, for many, cultural traditions are more important than endangered species...or the law!

Turtle have been taken on a regular basis since day one,don,t look for that to stop any time soon!

Its a part of the culture,pass all the laws you want just don,t except them to stop.

I spent a great deal of time with the finest turtle hunter in Baja Norte PaPa Fernandez,he was a hunter first and fisherman secound.

He and his family took turtles to be eaten and sold,when I first met the old man he had a couple of goats,a casa,boat nothing more,no panga,s for hire,nothing but turtles and fish.

My family ate turtle tacos,steaks,stew, when visiting PaPa,s campo,great stuff,I,m doing a poor job trying to get the message out about these things but people have been hunting all kinds of critters to eat since we showed up,deer,pig,elk,I hear nothing about,Save the pig,Save the deer and so on.

When taken they are not mounted to be admired just to be eaten as many are,why are they so much more important.

I can just feel the heat building out there /Rob

Have eaten turtle many times. But, they're legal. Fact is there are plenty of 'em down in the bayou country. Meats sorta stringy. They'll eat you if aren't careful.

Pigs hummm......not a good choice Hunger and the ability to provide for ones family remains the same today as it did in the 70,s.

I,m for saving what we can if it makes sence,turtles included,we are all caught up in saving everything reguardless,spotted owls,snail darters and the like with no end in sight,which leads me to drilling but won,t go there
Rob

My daughter Tess on her first ride at the caguama rodeo.

Cypress, many sp. of fresh-water turtles are also gone or rare these days. They are just too damned slow and their shell cannot protect them from humans.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress Have eaten turtle many times. But, they're legal. Fact is there are plenty of 'em down in the bayou country. Meats sorta stringy. They'll eat you if aren't careful.

Ate turtle twice in La Paz many moons ago. Reason I tried it a second time, I thought the first time must have been a bad cook.
Tastes like an old rooster's breast that has been laying in fishguts for a few hours.

Ignorance know's no boundaries

Sharksbaja, Yea. Turtles, fresh or salt, are no longer on my grocery list.

Sea turtle soup

I agree - it is a sad thing that it still happens:

http://www.bajatrekker.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=527



greg

DAM! THOSE ARE GRUESOME PICTURES!

THAT SUCKS WE HUMANS KILL EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY!

What kind of talk is that?"Fricking marooons" "Ignorance knows no boundaries"

Good lord fella you need a nap,perhaps a valium will help or a big deep breath,try something /Rob

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Originally posted by baitcast What kind of talk is that?"Fricking marooons" "Ignorance knows no boundaries" Good lord fella you need a nap,perhaps a valium will help or a big deep breath,try something /Rob

only marooons would eat a turtle after having heard about efforts to save turtles from decimation -- anybody who defends turtle poachers is no better than someone who would defend Robert Mugabe.

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666 anybody who defends turtle poachers is no better than someone who would defend Robert Mugabe.

I have never fully understood the Mexican fascination, almost obsession, with sea turtles. About 22 years ago my daughter Coleen and I were diving at Isla Partida on the wonderful old liveaboard dive boat Baja Explorador. We were on a rocky wall at about 60 feet when we saw a green sea turtle which appeared to be resting on a ledge. As we approached closely we realized that the turtle was dead. It had become wedged into the rocks and was unable to free itself before drowning.

When we got back to the boat, which was anchored across the channel at Los Islotes, we told the crew about the turtle. They became very excited and got us to spot the turtle's location as precisely as we could. After the day's work was done, all divers back on board, four of the crew headed over to Partida to find the turtle. Amazingly, they did. They dislodged it, loaded it on their panga, brought it back to the Explorador, butchered and barbecued it on the small beach at Los Islotes, and had a helluva fiesta. It seemed like an awful lot of effort, especially since there were fresh wahoo and yellowfin tuna on board.

Here are some photos I made when Coleen and I found the turtle. Apologies for the quality, it was a LONG time ago and I have learned much in the last 22 years

Wedged into the rocks:


Coleen gently touches the dead turtle's head:


[Edited on 6-23-2008 by Ken Bondy]

Yes I too know local people on the East Cape who still eat Turtle, and have been invited to partake in the meal which is like an honor to included, but have alway's been unable to attend. I am just a visiter here and this is their culture and Country, not about to start telling them how to live like the fortunate from the North.

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Originally posted by UnoMas I am just a visiter here and this is their culture and Country, not about to start telling them how to live like the fortunate from the North.

We guess it is a matter of picking and choosing which laws one wants to follow and picking and choosing which endangered species to support.

Rhinos and Tigers are almost extinct, but maybe we should respect and accept their demise because of some Asian cultural tradtitions.

Well, tonight we are having a condor egg omlett for dinner---one egg will be enough --- don't want to deplete the condor egg supply.

Diane and John

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter Quote: Originally posted by shari Gee Lee, good thing you don't live in a small village on the coast or you'd have NO friggin friends at all! It's against the law to drive with a beer too etc.etc ad nauseum...the first caguama I tried was one a boat had hit and killed...fed about 25 very happy people. While I'm an endangered species hugger...I respect cultural food gathering for the families. We guess it is a matter of picking and choosing which laws one wants to follow and picking and choosing which endangered species to support. Rhinos and Tigers are almost extinct, but maybe we should respect and accept their demise because of some Asian cultural tradtitions. Well, tonight we are having a condor egg omlett for dinner---one egg will be enough --- don't want to deplete the condor egg supply. Diane and John

Well put! Isn't it sooooo sad that that mindset persists. You wouldn't want to offend people enjoying cultural traditions regardless of the toll it exacts collectively. Very selffish behavior.

Shari, some of those families are,well, very extended.

Anyone for sharkfin soup??



[Edited on 6-23-2008 by Sharksbaja]

Shari,
Think global, act local.
Really, there is no excuse for drinking and driving, and harvesting/eating endangered species. Tradition will never make either activity "correct." Drinking and driving has led to many deaths and maimings, rural drinking and driving is really not any different than urban drinking and driving. Traditional hunting of endangered species has caused many species to go extinct. Problem with encouraging one small group to harvest endangered species is that then all groups feel justified in eating endangered species.

Regarding the boat killed turtle. It's dead, why waste it? Road kill on the high seas!

Sea turtles have a hard enough time as it is, dodging boat props, gill nets, long lines, trawls, plastic bags, and the assorted crowd that wants to eat them or their eggs. They need a break.

Really? Wow! You can't believe everythang you hear........like sharks feeding on hordes of sea turtles.


Estimates of sea turtle mortality from poaching and bycatch in Bahía Magdalena, Baja California Sur, Mexico

Volker Kocha, , , Wallace J. Nicholsb, c, Hoyt Peckhamb, d and Victor de la Tobae

aThe School for Field Studies, Center for Coastal Studies, Puerto San Carlos, Mexico

bPropeninsula, P.O. Box 324, Davenport, CA 95017, USA

cDepartment of Herpetology, California Academy of Sciences, San Francisco, CA, USA

dDepartment of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, University of California at Santa Cruz, Santa Cruz, CA 95060, USA

eGrupo Tortuguero, Domicilio conocido, Puerto Adolfo Lopez Mateos, Baja California Sur, Mexico


Received 18 April 2005; revised 18 September 2005; accepted 28 September 2005. Available online 29 November 2005.

Abstract
Bahia Magdalena on the Pacific coast of Baja California Sur, Mexico, is an important feeding and nursery ground for black turtles Chelonia mydas, loggerhead turtles Caretta caretta, olive ridley turtles Lepidochelys olivacea, and hawksbill turtles Eretmochelys imbricata. Despite international and national protection, sea turtles continue to be caught incidentally and hunted for consumption in large numbers. This study examines the mortality of sea turtles in Bahia Magdalena, focusing on (1) species distribution and number of carcasses found, (2) causes of death, (3) size frequency distribution and % juveniles in the catch, and (4) changes in average size over the past years. A total of 1945 turtle carcasses were found from April 2000 to July 2003 along beaches and in towns of the region with loggerhead (44.1%) and black turtles (36.9%) being the dominant species. Slaughter for human consumption was the primary cause of death of carcasses found in towns (95–100%), while carcasses on beaches mostly died of unknown causes (76–100%). Circumstantial evidence suggests however, that incidental bycatch was the main mortality cause on beaches. Black turtles suffered the highest consumption mortality overall (91%), followed by olive ridley (84%), hawksbill (83%) and loggerhead turtles (63%). Over 90% of all turtles found were juveniles or subadults. Carapace length of black turtles declined consistently over the sampling period, while that of loggerhead turtles increased. Our results strongly suggest that turtles are being taken at high and unsustainable rates; this may partially explain why the populations have not recovered despite widespread protection on nesting beaches

That's really funny! Is the theory that the sharks mistake the people for sea turtles?

ElFaro, Regarding Hawains being afraid to go in the water due to being afraid of turtle eating sharks.Who the heck told you that? Don't believe 'em.

That is so ignorant, it bears worth repeating in total! It’s one thing to be uneducated; it’s another to prove it to the whole world on the Internet!

Yes, it has been estimated that the survival rate is around 1% to adult reproductive maturity. You are correct, not proven to the nth degree and three decimal points, but estimated to be around 1%. You see, a lot of financial resources have not been committed to Sea Turtle research and there is still much to learn about their habitat and lifestyle. But, female sea turtles are like salmon in a way, they return to the same beaches to lay their eggs anywhere from every 1 to 3 years after reproductive maturity. There have been several tagging programs that have suggested that the survival rate was around 1% supported by an actual count of nesting sites over many years. The number of sea turtles in the 8 species has dwindled to the point that 7 species have been protected as endangered. They are 7 species that are indigenous to various parts of Baja California. All 7 species are in the endangered category. But it is relatively easy to count the number of sea turtle nests along the Baja beaches for the last several years and the numbers are way down. The reasons for this are varied and complex, but among the reasons are over harvesting and poaching by local people, long line and net commercial fishing, depletion of food supply, changes in environmental habitat including siltation and pollution at the upper end of the SOC and changes in water temperature, increasing encroachment on traditional nesting sites with housing, atv's, horses, dogs, increase in population and greater use of beach, etc.

However, now for some good news. As the result of programs like the Sea Turtle Hatching Program, we have been getting survival rates of over 10% to reproductive maturity in some species, which ranges between 3 and 50 years depending on species and location and food supply. In fact, the Olive Ridley species is making a dramatic comeback in the Baja region. Scientists and volunteers working across cultural lines have cooperated on a "grassroots" program that is easy, fun, and very effective. Even some of the resort hotels in Los Cabos are promoting Sea Turtle eco-tourism as an adjunct to Whale watching eco-tourism. Interestingly, Sea Turtle and whale watching season run at opposite times of the year. The Sea Turtle nesting season starts in June and runs through November here in Baja

I don't know anything about people afraid to go into the water in Hawai'i as a result of increased shark populations. I do know that shark attacks in Hawai’i are very low compared to other locations in the world. I do know that the sea turtle count in Hawai'i has declined about the same extent as it has in Mexico.

With regards to the other question about eating sea turtles that are already dead. Well, nothing is wrong with that, except when you see someone bring them in, how do you know they were already dead when caught? It is like the Mexican fishing license law, everyone on the boat needs to have a license, otherwise you just point at someone else and say, "I thought he had the license." So anyone with a dead Sea Turtle might be suspect.

I would like to see the sea turtle population increase to the point where they can be taken off the endangered list. Then we could allow people to harvest Sea Turtles for their consumption with limits on catch, seasons, and resultant management of resources.

So ElFaro, I challenge you to join me in one of the local programs in Los Cabos. I am a novice at this and you, ElFaro, and I can learn a lot together. You will learn a great deal about Sea Turtles, you will have a very rewarding time knowing that you are doing something proactive about a very vulnerable creature, and you can bring your children/grand children along and watch them become lifelong advocates of Sea Turtles. To start, here is a website that is easy to read and understand about Sea Turtles: http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/info-books/sea-turtle/in... If you wish to become even more knowledgeable about Sea Turtles, there are several sites on the Internet with much more technical information and data.

With everyone's cooperation, we can make this work.

I hope this little Olive Ridley made it into the 1%:

:

Oxxo, I did read a couple of articles---and I will find them if necessary for the "fact" police---that there is one place in Hawaii where the turtles are coming back strong---BUT, it is only because they were put on the endangered species list and REGULATIONS have been enforced for lots of years.

Keep up the good volunteer work---it is worthwhile.

Thanks

BTW, John said he ate turtle soup in southern Mexico about 40 years ago when it was legal---he said it was not very good, in his opinion. The Iguana was better.

Diane

Eating dead turtles in order to keep 'em from going to waste? Glad to hear that they're not eating 'em alive and kicking. There're a bunch of goats down in Baja. They're not endangered.

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Originally posted by Ken Bondy That's really funny! Is the theory that the sharks mistake the people for sea turtles?

Ken, that's not too far fetched I was attacked in the water once by a jellyfish, he must have thought I was a whaleshark. You ought to see me in the water, I won't even tell you how many pounds of weight to get me under.

All together now (all together now) All together now

Save the Sea Turtles...

Save the druggies

For Nomads who want turtle soup

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Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz I know there's a well-known restaurant in La Paz that's served my friends turtle soup every time they've asked for it. But it's an under the table thing, not on the menu. If I know of ONE place, then it's got to be happening at a lot of places.

Turtle "Under the table." is probably pork. Could you really tell the difference?Who would you complain to?