Juan starting rock hot tub!

Juan has the day off from diving for caracoles and started building the hot tub rock wall today. One of the few things I miss about Canada is a TUB! So my honey is building me one...what a guy! Finally the foggy mornings have disappeared and it's been clear the last few days. I hope Boris pushes some warmer water our way though...yesterday it was bloody freezing!

The island looks so close today and the sealion chatter is very loud as the breeze is coming from the south from the island. One of those chamber of commerce days here for sure. The trotters will be glad they are home!

That is going to be sweet! Is it your own private tub or can visiting Nomads take a dip if they bring the beer?

Too many questions Bob; no skeptics allowed in the tub !!

Shari,
Looks like a great addition to your ever-improving homesite !
The view will be amazing, especially at sunset !

Recirculating warm water and no chemicals

Location is beautiful

muy interesante..we have 110 here too...power that is...not temperature! NO worries mstrotter....the "unwashed" nomads won't use the tub anyway! We wanted to go deeper but it's sheer rock there and no blasting caps to be found here...maybe a small earthquake would suffice? NOT!

WE plan to have it covered...possibly with black roll up type cover that would help heat it too. Much of the year, we want it for a cool off pool too. We don't need it hot all the time. Of course we will figure out how to keep it clean...maybe it won't work out, maybe it will with some good ole mexican engenuity...we can always use it for water storage and a kiddie pool for the unwashed nomads who don't mind the grimey side of life

Bob,yer taking all the fun out of it! Let them build it and if there is a guy who can get er done right, then so be it.

I can imagine a solar heated tub....in Summer.

Consider downsizing and using UV to treat the water . Oh, it must be fresh water? Might be a waste of a precious resource imho. Of course that would make me a hypocrit with our large tub. Then again, I only fill it once and a while.

Damn, ya just can't be PC and have fun at the same time anymore! Unless of course, you are a Republican.

i'd get a pre-fab unit...

now lets see...
100 degrees
shallow water and
capt mike

i don't know

shari

water tanks and storage tanks use a different cement that doesn't leak

they ALSO use rebar

the pressure inside a water tank or YOUR spa without rebar reinforcment will EXPLODE the walls

water weighs 8 pounds a gallon (thats 3.64 kilos in canadian)
that's ALOT of weight in a "hot tob"

imagine sitting in the "tank" ...
it explodes...
you get "blown" over the wall in the washout
WOW!!! What a ride!!!

Shari,

I bet a small 12v or 110 pump with an in-line filter and a UV cylinder like Miquel's would work for a small tub !!
And a dash of Chlorox once in a while will also help.

Sorry Bob.
I only have 25 years professional experience in water treatment.
We have used chlorox to disinfect city water systems.
I have also used chlorox to disinfect water basins used for other purposes like pilas.

I am under the impression that Shari is not building the gold-plated gringo hot tub !!
One step up from an outdoor bathtub; but much nicer with stone walls.

Ok Bob, so I checked the internet to see what the experts say.
A few say not to use bleach because it is corrosive and toxic to humans.
I find this to be very funny.

Funny because almost all public pools use chlorine for pool disinfection and have for many years. It is the same sodium hypochlorite but in a stronger concentration. Just don't buy the scented stuff.
Our city pool is currently using sodium hypochlorite as is our water department - go figure !!

Granted, chlorine is slightly more corrosive to metals than bromide but who said Juan was going to use any metal pipes, heaters or filters anyway?
A few hundred feet of polypipe used to make a great solar heater before they came up with solar units ! And filters come in plastic housings these days.

GO JUAN !!

.

guadalupe hot tubs clean?? what an oxymarooon. i bet the only cleaning they get is because they are probably on a constant inflow outflow piped system from the springs that feed them.
only a guess tho, never been there just read about it and saw the incriminating pix posted here for years.
looked pretty un sanitary to me.

is it sulpher based water? does sulphuric acid act as a cleaning agent?

Nope, just wanted to see where you got your info and what the hot tub industry was saying. I wanted to see if you had a point before I responded rather than blabber cautions and inuendo about things you are no expert in; postman.

Juan will build what Juan wants to build and if you knew him you would understand; it will be fine.
I would guess that Shari was not looking for judgement when she started this post.
But maybe you have a spare hot tub, pump or filter she can use ?

Relax Bob, you're in Baja !!

Shari, May I say, I will most certainly join you in your spa, chemical's no chemical's, green slime, no slime, pink slime, I can't wait!!!! Good thing we didn't invite anyone to our spa treatments now that I read this post!!!



I know that Juan is going to build a beautiful work of art, and you will have a lovely hot tub.

" can have guests sign a waiver if they want to join us "

don't waste time with that, there is no tort liability in mexico like in states.
thank deus Mevin Belli didn't have a branch office full of abogados in mexico

i am looking forward to seeing this as it comes together. please continue to post status progress with good pics.
there is also a method of heating with a wood fired stove. redwood hot tubs of california used to sell complete kits and for wood fired heaters, cool stuff but you need a good supply of hard wood.
if propane is avail cheap enough get a propane spa heater of 250K BTU and you can heat a 6 person spa pretty well. i get 6 - 7 good uses out of a 100 lb botttle here, 3 -4 hours a session .

Shari, I wrote yesterday suggesting one of those aluminum snorkel stoves for heating the tub. Did you ever see those in BC? They submerge except for the air intake, the firebox door and the stove pipe and work fine as long as the fire box is always under water. If too many people get in and displace too much water over the edge and then all get out without filling the tub you can have a problem if the firebox is exposed - it can distort, melt, etc. The other disadvantage is that they are fuel hogs - not a problem in fuel rich BC but that's why I didn't send this yesterday - thinking where in the heck would they get enough fuel to run it economically. But perhaps there are viable alternatives - pressed bricks of Martillo's contributions?
anyways, just a thought...

>>> diver

"25 years professional experience" AND you had to look it up on the internet???? <<<

Bob and Susan... before getting any more down on Diver, why don't you put your own advice to work on that irrigation system and change it out to a quality one? Seems you went first class on everything else... but who did you get advice from when you used gate valves and fifty nine cent sprinklers?

It's not too late to correct it, and my help is free... On site consultation available too... Do you have an idea where we could stay in your part of Baja?

[Edited on 6-29-2008 by David K]

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike guadalupe hot tubs clean?? what an oxymarooon. i bet the only cleaning they get is because they are probably on a constant inflow outflow piped system from the springs that feed them. only a guess tho, never been there just read about it and saw the incriminating pix posted here for years. looked pretty un sanitary to me. is it sulpher based water? does sulphuric acid act as a cleaning agent?

Mike, please work with facts and common sense... Have you ever camped at Guadalupe Canyon? I think not since there's no airport or air conditioning there... Seriously, when a guest leaves, the tub is drained and scrubbed down with bleach then left empty to bake in the heat of the desert sun until refilled the day the next guest arrives... usually several days later. Do you think that people (women specially) would want to keep coming back if it wasn't sanitary? The water has no typical sulfur smell found at most hot springs.

The last time we were there, before we drove away, they were entering our camp with the bleach and brush bucket, and rake and trash bag.

We drain the tub before we leave... a nice addition we noticed last time was a ball valve on the drain pipe. Before a sand filled zip lock baggie served as a stopper!

[Edited on 6-29-2008 by David K]

Seems to me that Bob and Susan are just trying to be helpful.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress Seems to me that Bob and Susan are just trying to be helpful.

Helpful or critical

ok DK i stand corrected on their, GC's, "resort" facilities maintenance procedures, but if that constitutes a sanitary condition they'd never get a county health department operating permit as even a semi public (HOA type) operation let alone a full public facility at fee license.

and no - i haven't been there. and from the trip reports i have read i have no urgent desire to go either. but i am glad you and others enjoy it, why not?

as far as Bob Frambes' abilities re developing and engineering a self contained for the most part and off grid resort - most here couldn't carry his briefcase.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy Quote: Originally posted by Cypress Seems to me that Bob and Susan are just trying to be helpful. Helpful or critical

Hot tub/spa

Boy, I sure hope one of these shows up at the Golf Course pretty soon!!

Quote:

Originally posted by bajamigo Boy, I sure hope one of these shows up at the Golf Course pretty soon!!

Within the next two years.......

Cabin fever setting in ??

Relax Bob, you're in Baja ??
(Just thought I'd try again !)
.

David

"but who did you get advice from when you used gate valves and fifty nine cent sprinklers?"

you are an "expert" and if i've done something wrong i NEED to know

but...

i've ALWAYS put some kind of shut-off valve (gate valve) before the electric anti-shipon valves....otherwise how do you fix them when you have a problem without shuting down the entire complex

you DON"T !!!!
how do your customers repair the units later????

plastic glue needs 24 hours to cure when you glue parts together otherwise you get "leaks"

what is better????

oh yea i ONLY spent 57 cents each on my plastic sprinklers...not 59 cents

are you still mad that i think a $12 anti siphon valve will work as well as a $29 commercial unit with normal household use???
______________________________

place to stay????...
here on the internet with ALL nomads as a witness...

for you ONLY david...

if you get married here in mulege to your "angel"....
your stay is FREE (up to 5 days)
and all available casitas are yours with breakfast

ok???

Before I came to La Paz, I had a spa for 22 consecutive years....I gotta say I totally agree with Bob, and I didn't read any of his posts as anything but factual & trying to save Shari & Juan a lot of cost, labor & miserable surprises!! If you have no plans to use chlorine or bromine tables to sanitize the water and don't plan to have a filtration system which filters all the water in the tub once every 24-hours, you're going to end up with really foul unsanitary water....UNLESS you plan on replacing all the water each use. The more bodies in it, the faster the water will go bad...all the dead skin sloughing off all those people stays in the water, along with lotions, deodorant, hairspray, perfumes....anything anyone might have on their body, including BO & other dirt or filth....you & anyone using the tub will be getting the full effect!! Then it splashes in your face or you rub your eyes or wipe your mouth....I think you get the picture. Not to mention being a mosquito breeding ground!

IMHO, Bob's not dumping on you or being negative, he's trying to be a good friend by attempting to advise you of the pitfalls in your plan!!

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy Quote: Originally posted by Cypress Seems to me that Bob and Susan are just trying to be helpful. Helpful or critical

I would say, helpful----not critical. I agree with his advice --- all of it.

If anyone has ever seem what can happen to a swimming pool in a few days without filtration and chemicals, or to a hot tub----it is really awful, and dangerous to one's health. It quickly becomes a concrete swamp.


If it is drained every day---that is different.

And frankly, I don't think it is a difference between gringo and Mexican standards, or being cool. Just common health considerations.

Diane

[Edited on 6-29-2008 by jdtrotter]

[Edited on 6-29-2008 by jdtrotter]

Bob and Susan... that sounds great... Thanks... Angel and I are close to that point.

>>> "you are an "expert" and if i've done something wrong i NEED to know

but...

i've ALWAYS put some kind of shut-off valve (gate valve) before the electric anti-shipon valves....otherwise how do you fix them when you have a problem without shuting down the entire complex

you DON"T !!!!
how do your customers repair the units later????

plastic glue needs 24 hours to cure when you glue parts together otherwise you get "leaks"

what is better????" <<<

Bob: I always install a BALL VALVE before the irrigation control valves if there isn't one there or easily accessable... because there could be a reason to seperate the system from the property water supply... for a repair or addition. What gave you the idea I didn't?

Some Nomads may not agree with my politics or how I like to enjoy Baja or my choice in trucks... but be assured, I am very good with my irrigation work... and I do believe in using the best products for the need, without going overboard. A $15-18 valve is worth the extra to pay for than your $12.00 valve... and I told you where to get it, cheaper than the big parking lot building home stores (that sell them for over $25)!

I can turn on the water often in as little as 10 minutes when the joints are coated correctly and bottomed out, and using a strong blue cement.. never have leaks... even when the water won't totally shut off. I use Christy's Red Hot Blue Glue... never has failed me... when other's brand wet 'r dry glue has.

Again, I am happy to help... even without a Honeymoon casita!

Hola Bob,

The difference is that a gate valve will leak... sooner or later (not completely shut off the water)

OR it will fail... usually in the closed position... ie. you tighten down the gate to shut off the water and then you try to open it and all that round wheel does is turn around and around... The shaft breaks where it attaches to the gate.

A ball valve is only ~2 dollars more and will not fail in that manner... The worst that can happen is the handle will break (on a PVC ball valve) or rust off (on a brass/ bronze ball valve if left in contact with the soil). It still can be opened or closed with plyers if the handle ever breaks. Valves should not be in dirt, but inside a valve box to keep dirt from contacting it, if installed below grade.

Red Hot Blue Glue works fine without primer on new pipe up to 2" diameter (you should use primer if the pipe has been exposed to sunlight for very long and feels oxydized (powdery). Up to 100 PSI lines, I have pressurized in 10 minutes... an hour if the pressure is higher. Note: I am only relaying my experiences in using that brand for the past 10 years, please follow the directions on the can, if they differ!

The most important part of cementing PVC successfully is a clean, square cut... applying the cement to both the inside/ socket fitting AND around the pipe diameter ~ 1" from the end or the depth of the socket fitting, if more. Pushing the pipe into the fitting with a slight rotation, if possible... then hold the pipe and fitting together for about 10 seconds so the pipe does not hydraulic back out of the socket before the cement can grip them together.

(doesn't this info belong in my How to thread?)

how come the city uses gate valves for the water lines at the street for residental use???

if both kinds of valves fail over time then what is the real differance?

the gate valve cheaper?

the moderator should move this to dk's other thread

and you don't use primer???
aren't you required by code to use primer???

what about the connectors???

aren't they kinda hard and shiny and need primer to assure a pressure seal???

[Edited on 6-30-2008 by Bob and Susan]

Bob: That's why the city is always digging up the streets....

Twenty years ago things were different. Most plumbing supplies and parts were made here and to a better degree of quality than todays tagahashi crap.

I can't believe how lousy the ball-valves are in Baja. I don't know where they are made but they suck. Some leak, some are stiff, sunlight destroys them fast. etc.

Now a good U.S. brass gate valve will last along time given it is operated occasionally. Don't get one with cast handles or steel shafts. Buy solid brass.

David, when did ball-valves exceed gate-valves in terms of cost? I find they cost substantially more that pvc???

One more thang.
You might be a good irrigation tech but your pompous attitude about being great is bad.

btw, a good gate valve is TOTALLY rebuildable. You need not cut the line to repair. Pvc does offer sch 80 ball-valve unions but they are real pricey.

Quote:

the moderator should move this to dk's other thread

no!! this is about hot tubbin' not sprinklers.

now i know everything i ever wanted to know about frickin irrigation valves...........

the water in your tub will always be as clean as the butt cracks of the people you invite to set in it with you.

sooo...

"Only use a primer if it is a spec job and an inspector will be checking"....

so if no one is looking and you can "hide" it just glue

a professional should primer EVERYTHING!!! imho

Thinking maybe the fishing is a little slow over on the Pacific side? If the fish aren't biting it's time for "Home Improvements".Or, the fish are biting too well?Only takes a little time to catch 'em and head home.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan sooo... "Only use a primer if it is a spec job and an inspector will be checking".... so if no one is looking and you can "hide" it just glue a professional should primer EVERYTHING!!! imho

what's this??

the Emily Post "post"
on proper manners??

get out of the kitchen. it's too hot for you in here. Building is never pretty until it's finished and done RIGHT!!
the comments here were in furtherance of getting it done right!!