BajaNomad - What would be your #1 positive change?

What would be your #1 positive change?

Paula - 7-22-2008 at 05:53 PM

What would be your #1 positive change in Baja?

Shari has an interesting thread/poll about how Nomads feel about living in and visiting Baja, and whether we welcome change or prefer it to stay as it is. So lets take it a little further by trying to define what "positive change" means to us. I hope we can focus on our ideas for the best possible place that this peninsula can be.

CortezBlue - 7-22-2008 at 06:08 PM

I would add Fee Simple real estate sales to gringos so the 99 year lease and Fidicomiso would not be required. :bounce:

palmeto99 - 7-22-2008 at 06:13 PM

Its not a lease. Its ownership held in a bank trust... :cool:

Al G - 7-22-2008 at 06:25 PM

Nothing should change in Baja that the normal Mexican process allows...period.
The one thing I would be happy to see happen, is cutting the head off the snake of police corruption. I will never leave Baja, (not many years anyway) but I fear one day some stupid cop is going to push the issue too far and he will die. You know what will happen to me then.
The Mexican culture is proceeding at the speed/level as the US did in the 50's...it will happen and we as gringos will have little effect if any.

[Edited on 7-23-2008 by Al G]

gibson - 7-22-2008 at 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CortezBlue
I would add Fee Simple real estate sales to gringos so the 99 year lease and Fidicomiso would not be required. :bounce:

??? nothing is 99 year (except for the suckers that fell for it)

Skeet/Loreto - 7-22-2008 at 06:49 PM

More Direct Help with the Children: Helping them get a good Mexican Education, going onto to their own Higher Education. Learning to to be proud of their hertiage,

Being a Mexicano and being Proud of it!

elizabeth - 7-22-2008 at 07:09 PM

Paula,

This is a very thought provoking subject.

I went back and forth between improved standard of living and political and judicial changes...but, ultimately went with improved standard of living. I think it will take an improved standard of living for people to make the appropriate decisions about how they want their political and judicial systems to work. And changes have to be made by Mexicans utilizing systems that work culturally. The problem most North Americans have (mostly estadounidense) is that they believe that the US system is the best, and should be emulated by all. Both the political and judicial systems of Mexico have been improved over the years...the Mexican criminal code has written into it many safeguards. It's the implemention that is the problem, and that will only change when people have a better standard of living and more education.

The improvement of the standard of living needs to take into account that any investment and industry needs to be mostly Mexican owned or well regulated, so that the majority of profits stay in the country to help improve infrastructure. It's not much help to the economy to have foreign corporations build huge resorts that hire people at low wages, encourage emigration and slums, and send the money out of the country. Maquilas that hire people at minimum wage, encourage them to emigrate to maquila zones, send the profits out of the country, and then close the maquilas to open them in China are not a solution.

Just my initial thoughts on the subject...I look forward to other thoughts.

gibson - 7-22-2008 at 07:12 PM

less 'crema' in the 'gwakamole'

fishbuck - 7-22-2008 at 07:15 PM

More "Ladies Bars" with cheap beer!

fulano - 7-22-2008 at 07:24 PM

Your list is incomplete. If you eliminated corruption so there was a level playing field, all the rest would take care of itself.

shari - 7-22-2008 at 07:29 PM

My dream is to see a well trained, well paid police force who respond to crime quickly...a new judicial system with court trials and
and improved wages for all so people dont have to risk their lives to cross over the border for highes wages....and an end to the sexism in hiring policy.

Change starts within

Lee - 7-22-2008 at 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elizabeth
I went back and forth between improved standard of living and political and judicial changes...but, ultimately went with improved standard of living.

Me too! And then I went with political/judicial changes. But your choice might be more right.

Quote:

Originally posted by fulano
Your list is incomplete. If you eliminated corruption so there was a level playing field, all the rest would take care of itself.

Got that right. Still might not vote for that first, but certainly it should be on the list.

Salute!

bacquito - 7-22-2008 at 07:51 PM

I went with environmental- Mexico has many beautiful palces but many people think nothing of tossing plastic items, tires, cans and other items in their countryside. Much of this trash does not break down.
Also, how about improving driving habits!!

This may be a new record

thebajarunner - 7-22-2008 at 08:24 PM

So far you only have two "STUPID RESPONSES"

Easy answer....
Improved level of life for everyone, especially the poor,
but perhaps the key to open that door is a reformed system of justice and government.

Don Alley - 7-22-2008 at 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by Paula
What would be your #1 positive change in Baja?

Perhaps the elimination of the fideicomiso system, ie supporting the original intent of Article 27.

Honestly now, is selling off all the prime land to outsiders, of real long term benefit to the Mexican population? :?:

--Larry

It is a shame to see eijdos liquidate prime land for a relative pittance. Leases would have been better, imo, especially if the limit could be raised to 20 years; ample time for most retired-in-Baja spans, after which the leased land could revert back to the ejidos. In the short term, there would be less foreign investment dollars, but in the long run, as the perceived value of the land increases, the revenues for the ejidos would continually increase.

As for non-ejido land, prime waterfront land will be bought up, if not by foreigners then by wealthy Mexicans and Mexican corporations for development and/or leases. And the very wealthy, regardless of nationality, are all foreign to most of the regular folks.

gibson - 7-22-2008 at 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thebajarunner
So far you only have two "STUPID RESPONSES"

Easy answer....
Improved level of life for everyone, especially the poor,
but perhaps the key to open that door is a reformed system of justice and government.

obviously in need of baja time!!

Paula - 7-22-2008 at 08:56 PM

It seems we have a thoughtful conversation going here!

Elizabeth and Bajarunner, you express the two sides of the coin. I haven't voted yet myself, but one of these would be my top choice, and I think that I'm leaning toward the the increased standard of living side first.

Lencho and Don and Elizabeth make good points about keeping the resources Baja has under localownership and control.

Fulano, corruption does need to be addressed, and I thought it might be implied under judicial and political improvements, but maybe it is an issue unto itself.

It is encouraging to me to see that many of us agree that the well-being of the local population is foremost, and that environmental quality is also high on the list.

CortezBlue - 7-22-2008 at 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by palmeto99
Its not a lease. Its ownership held in a bank trust... :cool:

Read it again, that is why I state lease and Fidi.

palmeto99 - 7-23-2008 at 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CortezBlue

Quote:

Originally posted by palmeto99
Its not a lease. Its ownership held in a bank trust... :cool:

Read it again, that is why I state lease and Fidi.

I did read it. There is no 99 year lease in Mexico. :cool:

CaboRon - 7-23-2008 at 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CortezBlue

Quote:

Originally posted by palmeto99
Its not a lease. Its ownership held in a bank trust... :cool:

Read it again, that is why I state lease and Fidi.

You may think a Fidi is ownership .... BUT .... you will NEVER hold title in you hand ..... a Fdi is NOT ownership if you never receive title ..... you just THINK you are in control of what is supposidly your land .....

CaboRon

[Edited on 7-23-2008 by CaboRon]

palmeto99 - 7-23-2008 at 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

Quote:

Originally posted by CortezBlue

Quote:

Originally posted by palmeto99
Its not a lease. Its ownership held in a bank trust... :cool:

Read it again, that is why I state lease and Fidi.

Your up rather early Ron. It just happens to be the law of the land and is light years away in terms of protection from these so called leases. It can be willed to our children and sold and transfered. Its all about protection of ones rights which vaporize pretty fast in any dispute with the holder of any lease.
Have a blessed day.... :cool:

k-rico - 7-23-2008 at 07:44 AM

CaboRon's point shouldn't be entirely dismissed. I'm a beneficiary of a Fideicomiso and sometimes wonder if the trust can somehow be changed by Government or bank action in such a manner where I lose out, in other words not honor the contract. It's a very slim chance I think. The laws have been changed before, but to the benefit of beneficiaries.

Plus, if a fidei beneficary is really worried about such an event, after several years of FM-3 renewals (I think 5), there's an immigration process that can be followed after which you can get your name on the title. I'm sure someone will correct me on that if I'm wrong.

comitan - 7-23-2008 at 07:57 AM

K-rico

You are not correct after the FM-2 you get Inmigrado so you don't have to report to Immigration every year, and have most rights of a Mexican Except Voting and Land ownership. The only way to get your name on the title is full Mexican citizenship.

bonanza bucko - 7-23-2008 at 08:03 AM

There is a canyon west of Gonzaga Bay that we call "The Gonzaga Bay National Forest." It gets water from the mountains behind it. It is full of very large Cardon cactus...some over 60 feet high. There are winter streams running through it and there are many, many desert plants of all kinds....it is a very, very beautiful place. You can see the ocean from there about five miles away down the hill.

If it were developed with a few golf courses, some hotels and shopping centers it would make Palm Springs look like a dump.

It ain't gonna happen! Good! Yer basic Palm Springs mentality would turn the place into a strip mall in about five years.

In the US we are used to subsidized utilities (at least as they were being built), good roads, clean water, sewers and all the infrastructure that makes us rich......you can't have a store or a hotel in a place that doesn't have a good road and the support stuff above.........The Mexican government, and corrupt officials, have ignored this reality for years. If Mexico had our system of subsidized infrastructure and a different legal system it would be one of the richest countries on earth.....millions of hard working, clean, religious people, natural resources by the batch, thousand of miles of warm water ports and beaches....on and on.

But it is the way it is....and the way we love it...because of those failings. We go there because we are fed up with greed, dirt, noise and the rush of modern "society.".....I would trade about five kids from Papa Fernandez's village near us for about 5000 spoiled brats with tattoos and rings in their noses any day.

I am a little hesitant to say it....but it just may be that the salvation of US society, culture and economy will be illegal and legal immigrants from Mexico. Newly arrived Mexicans are the just about the only on time, ready to work and trustworthy business people and workers I see around here.

Cypress - 7-23-2008 at 08:07 AM

bonanza bucko, That's telling it like it is! :spingrin:

shari - 7-23-2008 at 08:18 AM

I would like to take the opportunity to present some of the positive changes I have seen in my 20 years here.
The garbage issue IS being addressed...there are new garbage cans everywhere and the highways have been cleaned up and in our village the school kids do big clean ups as well as a team of "financially challenged citizens" have been hired by government to do clean ups too.

There is now a written test for a drivers license so they are more difficult to get now and police are enforcing the law of having to have a drivers license. Cars are now required to have plates and be registered.

Men who beat their wives and children are now put in jail and fined!!!!

there is a new tolerance for other religions.

Whole wheat tortillas are now available in stores...there is a rising health awareness and nutrition is improving.

Protection of marine mammals is much better here than in other parts of the world, as well as many reserves have been established to protect wildlife like the pronghorn antelope.

civil rights are improving, there are now many offices around where you can report offenses.

We have a new fantastic electricity service as well as are getting a new water line in as well improving our quality of life.

Roads are being improved...
So I do see lots of changes happening for the good.

CortezBlue - 7-23-2008 at 08:18 AM

Ron
Some people get it and some people don't. So let me type really slow.
The question is, What would we change in Baja. I would like to see Fee Simple Real Estate Transactions, like what is available in Mexico's interior. I never said I hold title with a Fidi or a 99,22 or 10 year lease.
PS, my home is paid for in the US and I don't have a title either, I have a deed, but my car has a title. :lol:

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

Quote:

Originally posted by CortezBlue

Quote:

Originally posted by palmeto99
Its not a lease. Its ownership held in a bank trust... :cool:

Read it again, that is why I state lease and Fidi.

Martyman - 7-23-2008 at 08:31 AM

I vote for more protection of the ocean resources. Gill netting and seine trawlers are the big culprit in this degradation. Use sustainable practices to keep commercial fisherman in business. Educate to see the big picture so that their grandkids could continue to be pescadores.

k-rico - 7-23-2008 at 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
K-rico

You are not correct after the FM-2 you get Inmigrado so you don't have to report to Immigration every year, and have most rights of a Mexican Except Voting and Land ownership. The only way to get your name on the title is full Mexican citizenship.

Really! Thanks comitan, I'll dig into it deeper. But as you say you can get title in the restricted zone if you obtain citizenship. I guess the question is can a person not born in Mexico obtain citizenship? If they can, then they can get title and cancel the fideicomiso?

Sorry folks this is off topic and I'm sure land ownership issues have been beat to death before. Comitan, if you care to, reply using U2U.

[Edited on 7-23-2008 by k-rico]

k-rico - 7-23-2008 at 08:59 AM

My number #1 positive change would be teaching the street musicians to tune their instruments, play in the same key, and turn down the volume. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're there, but IMHO there is certainly room for improvement.

woody with a view - 7-23-2008 at 09:02 AM

what is the opposite of choice number 2? that'd be my choice.

i know it's selfish, and yes, i am too!

Pompano - 7-23-2008 at 09:18 AM

outlaw CILANTRO, CANNED PEAS, AND COOKED COCONUT...teach lutefisk cookery.

comitan - 7-23-2008 at 09:49 AM

Shari is Canadian and she just got citizenship.

bonanza bucko - 7-23-2008 at 09:53 AM

There is a canyon west of Gonzaga Bay that we call "The Gonzaga Bay National Forest." It gets water from the mountains behind it. It is full of very large Cardon cactus...some over 60 feet high. There are winter streams running through it and there are many, many desert plants of all kinds....it is a very, very beautiful place. You can see the ocean from there about five miles away down the hill.

If it were developed with a few golf courses, some hotels and shopping centers it would make Palm Springs look like a dump.

It ain't gonna happen! Good! Yer basic Palm Springs mentality would turn the place into a strip mall in about five years.

In the US we are used to subsidized utilities (at least as they were being built), good roads, clean water, sewers and all the infrastructure that makes us rich......you can't have a store or a hotel in a place that doesn't have a good road and the support stuff above.........The Mexican government, and corrupt officials, have ignored this reality for years. If Mexico had our system of subsidized infrastructure and a different legal system it would be one of the richest countries on earth.....millions of hard working, clean, religious people, natural resources by the batch, thousand of miles of warm water ports and beaches....on and on.

But it is the way it is....and the way we love it...because of those failings. We go there because we are fed up with greed, dirt, noise and the rush of modern "society.".....I would trade about five kids from Papa Fernandez's village near us for about 5000 spoiled brats with tattoos and rings in their noses any day.

I am a little hesitant to say it....but it just may be that the salvation of US society, culture and economy will be illegal and legal immigrants from Mexico. Newly arrived Mexicans are the just about the only on time, ready to work and trustworthy business people and workers I see around here.

comitan - 7-23-2008 at 10:10 AM

Morgain7,

Expresses my view completely. No amendments or addendums!!!

DianaT - 7-23-2008 at 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
outlaw CILANTRO, CANNED PEAS, AND COOKED COCONUT...teach lutefisk cookery.

Any lutefisk cooking, and we are GONE. :barf:

Not sure where I want to vote, but improving the highway is a big one for EVERYONE. So many of the locals have family spread up and down Baja and travel on that highway; the highway is my least favorite part of being there.

So, for selfish reasons, and to maybe cut down on the number of new crosses that appear along that highway, I may vote for that one.

Also, an improved highway along with other infrastucture could help improve the lives of many.

Good news is that there is quite a bit of work being done on the highway especially not too far below El Rosario---well needed safety improvements.

Diane

The Gull - 7-23-2008 at 11:31 AM

The list was meant to represent POSITIVE change?

comitan - 7-23-2008 at 11:41 AM

Why do we keep going through this, Nothing that this board comes up with is going to change anything, its their country and they will make changes as fits their need. I think the majority of this should go to the off topic and discus the changes in the country you living in, you are suppose to be able to makes changes in the USA :rolleyes:

for sure there needs to be some. :yes:

I for one am all for

Bajajack - 7-23-2008 at 12:06 PM

positive change, so if any of you Missionary types down there could see your way into introducing the concept of Soap & Water and perhaps a dab of Deodorant now and then to the natives it would be greatly appreciated.

palmeto99 - 7-23-2008 at 04:33 PM

:lol:

Corky - 7-23-2008 at 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
The list was meant to represent POSITIVE change?

Corky - 7-23-2008 at 06:25 PM

Get rid of more of the "know it all" whining Gringos!

That would be GREAT!!

Paula - 7-23-2008 at 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody in ob
what is the opposite of choice number 2? that'd be my choice.

i know it's selfish, and yes, i am too!

I'm with you on that one Woody. That would maybe be my best change-- no new paved roads :lol:

My favorite thing to do down here is go on obscure roads into the mountains. The road to San Javier is being paved now, and they say they will finish it-- all the way. As I understand from people up there that I've talked with about half of the residents are happy about it, and half would prefer it stay as it is. I think that road will be more dangerous with people traveling faster, and the surface falling into disrepair. And the town will certainly change. But I can see how many of the people, especially those who drive into Loreto for work, will benefit from faster travel.
I'd like to see Mex 1 improved, as it is a danerous drive, but I love the mystery of a good bad road, and the reward of a remote place at the end.

postholedigger - 7-23-2008 at 08:36 PM

I'd like to see the drug traffic give up on the Baja border and go through the mainland only. :lol:

Paula - 7-23-2008 at 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
outlaw CILANTRO, CANNED PEAS, AND COOKED COCONUT...teach lutefisk cookery.

Life without cilantro??????

Bruce R Leech - 7-24-2008 at 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
Why do we keep going through this, Nothing that this board comes up with is going to change anything, its their country and they will make changes as fits their need. I think the majority of this should go to the off topic and discus the changes in the country you living in, you are suppose to be able to makes changes in the USA :rolleyes:

for sure there needs to be some. :yes:

I agree

gnukid - 7-24-2008 at 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech

Quote:

for sure there needs to be some. :yes:

I agree

Whoa. Imagine if immigrants to USA said we can't affect our lives and negotiate change? Mexico is no different. Now, why do we keep having this agrument? Mexico is like all nations, made up of various minded people, various backgrounds who through their individual and group efforts make it what it is. The idea that one should sit back and let others do the work is absurd, proven to be a self-defeating position and has no validity so let's drop it as a discussion point. Everyone here who lives in Baja has a role and their involvement is huge, by their contribution and example. Stop making excuses and get to the hard part and start getting involved.

comitan - 7-24-2008 at 04:20 PM

Gnukid

Why do you not understand that we are without the rights of a Mexican National and if we interfere in the political process we put our status in Mexico in jeopardy, We can make police reports as you suggest but I can't think of anything else other than Living in a Colonus like Comitan you can hold a position on the board, with a letter explaining to Immigration that it is a non paying position. You can also help with children s programs, and Pet programs which a lot of gringoes are doing so don't say the gringoes don't do anything.