BajaNomad - Antivenin update

Antivenin update

astrobaja - 7-28-2008 at 10:38 AM

Hi all,
An update to my post on the Mexican antivenin made by Bioclon. We found a reliable source in Ensenada, you can buy it at any Del Sol farmacia. It cost us 880 pesos per dose, pretty cheap considering the vastly inferior stuff available on the American market is 10X's the price and has a very short shelf life!
This stuff is considered to be the best on any market it is a 3rd generation antivenin, with none of the risk of anaphylaxis that conventional antivenin has. I have some freinds who are herpatologists and this is the stuff they swear by! It is powered and needs no refigeration, also it is administered intramuscularly which is much easier!

just an FYI post for those who live far from medical attention

antivenin.jpg - 32kB

Debra - 7-28-2008 at 10:43 AM

Thanks for the info.

Do you happen to know the shelf life?

astrobaja - 7-28-2008 at 10:48 AM

Hi Debra, I think the company states one year but my herpatologist contact said it remains effective up to 3 years!

Debra - 7-28-2008 at 10:51 AM

Great! Thanks

Bruce R Leech - 7-28-2008 at 11:01 AM

you might tell everyone what it is for. they might not have caught your other posts.

thanks for the up date

Antivenin

CaboRon - 7-28-2008 at 11:29 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antivenin

astrobaja - 7-28-2008 at 11:29 AM

Good point Bruce,

Right well its an antivenin to be used in case of rattlesnake bite. They also have a product specifically for coral snake bite (I would imagine the chance of getting bitten by one is much lower than by a rattler, although their venom is highly poisonous!)

Heres the link to the company:

http://www.bioclon.com.mx/ingles.html

Russ - 7-28-2008 at 12:14 PM

This is really Great news! Most of our dogs here in Pt. Chivato are inoculated and get booster shots every year. The anti venom is a two part and needed an IV push and there aren't many folks here that can do that so this is a real blessing. Not to mention the price. Thanks a lot!

Sharksbaja - 7-28-2008 at 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by astrobaja
It is powered and needs no refigeration, also it is administered intramuscularly which is much easier!

You know the recommended dosage? I'm under the impression that it's a sequence, not just a single shot...

--Larry

That's right Larry. Some victims could require multiple injections depending on venom potency, victim size and weight and age and also the location of the bite.
I received multiple antivenom shots. That was decades ago so I imagine the stuff is probably better now. From what I've heard and read one dose usually is all a dog needs. Also, quick administration of the injection may give the victim an advantage.

$80 a dose still seems pricey but I'd still like some in my kit!
Thanks for the tip Astro.

Russ - 7-28-2008 at 01:26 PM

We're paying $400 per dose in the States.

Are there any vets out there that can elaborate on this

bancoduo - 7-28-2008 at 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Russ
This is really Great news! Most of our dogs here in Pt. Chivato are inoculated and get booster shots every year. The anti venom is a two part and needed an IV push and there aren't many folks here that can do that so this is a real blessing. Not to mention the price. Thanks a lot!

I was told that if you vaccinate your dog against snake bite and your dog is bitten and you administer the anti venom serum , it will probably kill the dog. It was also mentioned in Gun Dog magazine, that no one has a good take on this subject.

DianaT - 7-28-2008 at 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bancoduo

Quote:

I do hope someone who is in the know responds---our dogs are vacinated and a year ago, our Vet told us that if they were bit, they would probably still need the anti-venom.

Diane

Russ - 7-28-2008 at 05:07 PM

Diane, I was told the same thing. by the gal that is giving all our dogs their boosters And by my niece that is a vet tech. What both have said is that the dog has about a third or less symptoms and the anti venom works much faster. As for this new anti venom I don't have a clue how it works with the annual vaccinations. I'll send a copy off to my niece and she can run it thru the Vets at her hospital.

DianaT - 7-28-2008 at 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Russ
Diane, I was told the same thing. by the gal that is giving all our dogs their boosters And by my niece that is a vet tech. What both have said is that the dog has about a third or less symptoms and the anti venom works much faster. As for this new anti venom I don't have a clue how it works with the annual vaccinations. I'll send a copy off to my niece and she can run it thru the Vets at her hospital.

Thanks--will be very valuable information for many of us. :yes:

Diane

Russ - 7-28-2008 at 05:39 PM

Did a search and here is one article about this drug. Guess it's a people drug too. http://www.venomousreptiles.org/forums/Experts/17774
I'm a little confuse now but it does sound effective. More later.
Another article: http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/health/83554.php definitely for humans.

[Edited on 7-29-2008 by Russ]
Just noticed the date on the second article 7/11/05 I'll keep looking.

[Edited on 7-29-2008 by Russ]

DrTom - 7-29-2008 at 01:40 PM

whoa.....the current way to protect dogs is with Red Rock Biological's vaccine for rattlesnakes......the antivenom approach is outdated, except in humans for all i know....so we dont use it in vet med anymore....most are now using the vaccine.....2 doses.....My clinic in san jose del cabo has enough for about 15 dogs.....call there and talk to Dr. Bravo.....for stateside, have your vet get the vaccine before you travel. Now as far as im concerned.....id want some antivenom if im nailed by a croatalid.....i hate em actually, the one thing i didnt do in vet school was rattler handling....creeped me out, though they make great boots. :biggrin:

[Edited on 7-29-2008 by DrTom]

Russ - 7-29-2008 at 02:27 PM

Dr. Tom, Thanks. I was getting pretty excited about the antivenom for the dogs. And passed on a lot of miss information. Our dogs have been vaccinated but I'm not sure what vaccine was used. The gal that gives them is somewhere in the States now. If I understood correctly with this vaccine you're using if your dog got bit you would not administer an antivenom. Is that right? What would be the first aid after a bite? ... found the lable of the vaccine Mason was given, "Crotalus Atox Toxoid. What can you tell me about this? He's been on it for three years.

bajaguy - 7-29-2008 at 02:28 PM

If you can, and it is available in your area, take your dogs to Rattlesnake avoidance training. Check with your vet, or local outdoor sports groups (bird dogs). Also get them a vaccine each year. Slows down the effests of a snake strike.

The avoidance training really works, gets the dogs conditioned to not approach and to stay away from the snakes.

bancoduo - 7-29-2008 at 02:28 PM

http://www.hvjournal.com/articles.php?id=1794

Russ - 7-29-2008 at 03:13 PM

bancoduo, Great article! I just sent it off to all those I sent the antivenom article to.
bajaguy, Very good advice! "An ounce of prevention is worth ......"
Dr.Tom, I guess the article answered most of my concerns but I'd still like to hear your thoughts.
THANKS, everyone! Russ

DrTom - 7-29-2008 at 04:43 PM

yes the rattler aversion therapy is a good idea.....but i had a lab that hated em and skunks....would not leave skunks alone....wanted to send him to the betty ford center for skunk addiction.....anyway, i digress....first aid for rattler bite is wound treatment (soap, water, antiinfamatory and antibiotic) if theyre vaccinated, more aggressive if theyre not.....most mexican vets can deal with snake bites, but get them on antibiotics for sure....the problem is the tissue necrosis.....again, if youre cabo, see my partner and he talks tome daily about cases until i get there....

DianaT - 7-29-2008 at 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DrTom
yes the rattler aversion therapy is a good idea.....but i had a lab that hated em and skunks....would not leave skunks alone....wanted to send him to the betty ford center for skunk addiction.....anyway, i digress....first aid for rattler bite is wound treatment (soap, water, antiinfamatory and antibiotic) if theyre vaccinated, more aggressive if theyre not.....most mexican vets can deal with snake bites, but get them on antibiotics for sure....the problem is the tissue necrosis.....again, if youre cabo, see my partner and he talks tome daily about cases until i get there....

OK, our dogs had the adversion training---worked better for one than the other.

They have had the vaccinations and booster. However, we are a long 70 miles (part on dirt road) from any VET and it is not a trip we would want to take at night.

So, if we had to buy antibiotics for the dogs at the local pharmacy, what would you reccommend? One dog weighs about 65 lbs and the other 30.

Thanks
Diane

DrTom - 7-29-2008 at 07:27 PM

my recommendation is to have your veterinarian stateside, or your local vet in baja, prescribe the antibiotics that you may need, and then you will have them on hand. For me to prescribe a treatment for an animal i havent seen is actually considered negligent/malpractice.....who knows, antibiotic allergy?, kidney disease, etc....so in good conscience, see your vet, get a prescription and have it on hand.....they should be seen anually anyway....and dont forge to have them tested with the 4dx test for ehrlichia, heartworm, anaplasma and lymes.....and heartworm prevention

DianaT - 7-29-2008 at 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DrTom
my recommendation is to have your veterinarian stateside, or your local vet in baja, prescribe the antibiotics that you may need, and then you will have them on hand. For me to prescribe a treatment for an animal i havent seen is actually considered negligent/malpractice.....who knows, antibiotic allergy?, kidney disease, etc....so in good conscience, see your vet, get a prescription and have it on hand.....they should be seen anually anyway....and dont forge to have them tested with the 4dx test for ehrlichia, heartworm, anaplasma and lymes.....and heartworm prevention

I really apologize. After I asked the question, I knew it was not an OK thing to ask and it would be unprofessional for you to answer. I really intended to remove it. Again, I do apoligize.

We will ask our vet here; she knows both of them well! Your heartworm prevention advice is really great. Since we used to live in Calexico and often visit my mother-in-law in the Sierra foothills, we are very faithful with the heartworm prevention, frontline, etc. Good advice for everyone

Thanks
Diane

DrTom - 7-30-2008 at 09:20 AM

no apology needed......and again, theres so much ehrlichia (my own dog got it and almost died), its important to test and theres a good test now for it.....
again, no problema

DianaT - 7-30-2008 at 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DrTom
no apology needed......and again, theres so much ehrlichia (my own dog got it and almost died), its important to test and theres a good test now for it.....
again, no problema

Isn't that one of the tick borne diseases? I know we had our little rescure tested for everything when we got her because she was covered with ticks and fleas.

We seem to have good luck with the frontline in keeping ticks off the dogs, but will consider more tests.

Thanks.
Diane

DrTom - 7-30-2008 at 09:54 AM

hi diane,
annually ask for the 4 dx test from idexx.....it has all the vector borne illness that would be seen usually in mexico....heartworm, ehrlicha, anaplasma, lymes....(really only 3 of 4, dont see much lymes) that way one test does all....if there is a positive on the ehrlichia your vet will want to put them on doxycycline...
tom

ilimetal - 8-27-2008 at 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by astrobaja
Hi all,
An update to my post on the Mexican antivenin made by Bioclon. We found a reliable source in Ensenada, you can buy it at any Del Sol farmacia. It cost us 880 pesos per dose, pretty cheap considering the vastly inferior stuff available on the American market is 10X's the price and has a very short shelf life!
This stuff is considered to be the best on any market it is a 3rd generation antivenin, with none of the risk of anaphylaxis that conventional antivenin has. I have some freinds who are herpatologists and this is the stuff they swear by! It is powered and needs no refigeration, also it is administered intramuscularly which is much easier!

just an FYI post for those who live far from medical attention

Hi, I'm looking for antivenin, I've been calling all pharmacies, and recently called the Del Sol farmacia in Ensenada and they told me that it was the vaccine, not the antivenin, the antivenin costs 400 dlls each getting it directly from the Bioclon corporation.

But if you can find it else where for cheaper I would greatly appreciate the info.

I'm in search for some because I work at a vet emergency hospital and we need some to treat patients and apparently no one has any.

Thx in advance