BajaNomad

Travelers' Laptops May Be Detained At Border

Gypsy Jan - 8-1-2008 at 04:01 PM

No Suspicion Required Under DHS Policies

By Ellen NakashimaWashington Post Staff Writer
Friday, August 1, 2008; Page A01

Federal agents may take a traveler's laptop computer or other electronic device to an off-site location for an unspecified period of time without any suspicion of wrongdoing, as part of border search policies the Department of Homeland Security recently disclosed.
Also, officials may share copies of the laptop's contents with other agencies and private entities for language translation, data decryption or other reasons, according to the policies, dated July 16 and issued by two DHS agencies, U.S. Customs and Border Protection and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

"The policies . . . are truly alarming," said Sen. Russell Feingold (D-Wis.), who is probing the government's border search practices. He said he intends to introduce legislation soon that would require reasonable suspicion for border searches, as well as prohibit profiling on race, religion or national origin.

DHS officials said the newly disclosed policies -- which apply to anyone entering the country, including U.S. citizens -- are reasonable and necessary to prevent terrorism. Officials said such procedures have long been in place but were disclosed last month because of public interest in the matter.

Civil liberties and business travel groups have pressed the government to disclose its procedures as an increasing number of international travelers have reported that their laptops, cellphones and other digital devices had been taken -- for months, in at least one case -- and their contents examined.

The policies state that officers may "detain" laptops "for a reasonable period of time" to "review and analyze information." This may take place "absent individualized suspicion."

The policies cover "any device capable of storing information in digital or analog form," including hard drives, flash drives, cellphones, iPods, pagers, beepers, and video and audio tapes. They also cover "all papers and other written documentation," including books, pamphlets and "written materials commonly referred to as 'pocket trash' or 'pocket litter.' "

Reasonable measures must be taken to protect business information and attorney-client privileged material, the policies say, but there is no specific mention of the handling of personal data such as medical and financial records.

When a review is completed and no probable cause exists to keep the information, any copies of the data must be destroyed. Copies sent to non-federal entities must be returned to DHS. But the documents specify that there is no limitation on authorities keeping written notes or reports about the materials.

"They're saying they can rifle through all the information in a traveler's laptop without having a smidgen of evidence that the traveler is breaking the law," said Greg Nojeim, senior counsel at the Center for Democracy and Technology. Notably, he said, the policies "don't establish any criteria for whose computer can be searched."

Customs Deputy Commissioner Jayson P. Ahern said the efforts "do not infringe on Americans' privacy." In a statement submitted to Feingold for a June hearing on the issue, he noted that the executive branch has long had "plenary authority to conduct routine searches and seizures at the border without probable cause or a warrant" to prevent drugs and other contraband from entering the country.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff wrote in an opinion piece published last month in USA Today that "the most dangerous contraband is often contained in laptop computers or other electronic devices." Searches have uncovered "violent jihadist materials" as well as images of child pornography, he wrote.

With about 400 million travelers entering the country each year, "as a practical matter, travelers only go to secondary [for a more thorough examination] when there is some level of suspicion," Chertoff wrote. "Yet legislation locking in a particular standard for searches would have a dangerous, chilling effect as officers' often split-second assessments are second-guessed."

In April, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit in San Francisco upheld the government's power to conduct searches of an international traveler's laptop without suspicion of wrongdoing.

The Customs policy can be viewed at: http:/ / www.cbp.gov/ linkhandler/ cgov/ travel/ admissability/ search_authority.ctt/ search_authority.pdf.

Iflyfish - 8-1-2008 at 04:05 PM

Looks like I need to dump all of my PEEPS science before crossing the border. Just in case my computer is confiscated you can find all the info you need at http://www.peepresearch.org/

Iflyfish

bancoduo - 8-1-2008 at 04:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
Looks like I need to dump all of my PEEPS science before crossing the border.

Iflyfish
I hope they getcha "Pilgrim". I thought you were a subversive from day one.:fire:

Iflyfish - 8-1-2008 at 04:32 PM

Guilty......... of enjoying a good PEEP show, especially with graham crackers and Symphony melted on top.

Iflyfishandampassionateaboutpeppermintpeeps'mores

bancoduo - 8-1-2008 at 04:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
Guilty......... of enjoying
We at DHS Don't tolerate "enjoying".

Oso - 8-1-2008 at 04:45 PM

Uh oh! Any recommendations for good "cleaner" software? Not that I would ever have anything improper in my registry...:saint:

flyfishinPam - 8-1-2008 at 04:52 PM

police state...submit :fire:

guadalupe - 8-1-2008 at 06:42 PM

My question is what if I have personal things on my computer like finances, banking, etc? What right do they have to do that? Next thing we know they will make us strip at the border and search us too.

This is ridiculous!

Bajabus - 8-1-2008 at 07:01 PM

It is a long and slippery slope isn't it........

DENNIS - 8-1-2008 at 07:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by guadalupe
Next thing we know they will make us strip at the border and search us too.



You'll just have to grin and bare it. Think of it as Gomer Pyle giving you a prostate exam.

guadalupe - 8-1-2008 at 07:47 PM

Well, if that Mr. Gomer Pyle looks like George Clooney I might think about it!

:lol:

I Propose Naked Border Crossing

Gypsy Jan - 8-1-2008 at 08:11 PM

No clothes, no electronics - no hassle.

bacquito - 8-1-2008 at 08:19 PM

In an effort to prevent terrorist activity we are losing our rights to privacy and freedom. If this continues then we will have lost a good deal of what makes the United States a great place to live.

Iflyfish - 8-1-2008 at 11:14 PM

"We shape our tools and then our tools shape us."
Marshall McLuhan in The Media is the Message

Iflyfish

rob - 8-2-2008 at 08:40 AM

Guadalupe - were you under the impression that this is not already a routine occurrence?

"Customs Deputy Commissioner Jayson P. Ahern said the efforts "do not infringe on Americans' privacy." In a statement submitted to Feingold for a June hearing on the issue, he noted that the executive branch has long had "plenary authority to conduct routine searches and seizures at the border without probable cause or a warrant".....

All orifices crossing the border are up for grabs, so to speak.

"The Gull" - if you want to ENSURE not seeing your laptop for the next 6-8 months, 256-bit encryption is an EXCELLENT route to take.

TMW - 8-2-2008 at 09:06 AM

I hate to bust your bubbles but the U.S. customs have always had the authority to search and seize. If you order computer equipment that comes from overseas it will be held up in customs including software and that has been in effect before 9/11. On the other side you need permission to sell computer equipment overseas and that too has been in effect before 9/11.

David K - 8-2-2008 at 09:10 AM

Thanks TW...

Providing for the Common Defense

MrBillM - 8-2-2008 at 09:48 AM

As previously stated, this has been policy for YEARS. Being unaware of it is a result of not paying attention.

All of this whining about loss of personal freedom is just that. Whining. We're not on a Slippery Slope. The one who thinks that may be worried because he's sitting on Bandini Mountain.

Given the "Terrorist" times we are living in, we can expect that concern for our privacy needs to take a backseat to the need to provide for our security which is a DUTY of the Federal Government. Limited Government means "Limited" to what is necessary to fulfill the obligations under the Constitution.

I've carried a Laptop on every trip for a hundred times and have never even been asked to boot it up. If asked, I have no concern that ANYTHING on the hard drive would be a problem or embarrassment. I doubt that I need worry about Identity theft from the Customs agents.

Anyone who is worried needs to reassess their priorities and choices.

We are living in a dangerous age akin to war. During WWII, my parents and grandparents put up with curtailment of liberties unimaginable to us and the country came out of it just fine.

BajaGringo - 8-2-2008 at 10:42 AM

We are losing many of our basic civil rights over the past few decades and the blame falls on both sides of the political aisle.

If I were to list the latest abuses just since 9/11 however, but credit them to a different country and government you would call them fascist.

Think about that for a moment before making a knee-jerk partisan response.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin



[Edited on 8-2-2008 by BajaGringo]

vgabndo - 8-2-2008 at 04:27 PM

BajaGringo...you live a charmed life. I used the word fascist and my post was deleted.

Bob and Susan - 8-2-2008 at 04:34 PM

i HATE to say this but...i agree with MrBill:spingrin::spingrin:

this is nothing...

DianaT - 8-2-2008 at 04:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
BajaGringo...you live a charmed life. I used the word fascist and my post was deleted.


Several were deleted probably because it strayed off topic and became quite political.

But if one thinks about, almost all of the replies are off topic as the Fourth Admendment does not apply to the border---has been tested many times.

Probably Mr Bills and Baja Gringos, to mention a couple. What they are talking about just does not apply.

Baja Gringo, you said it very well and I agree but the border is different.

And Mr Bill, you are correct---the country has recovered back to the center before, and hopefully it will again. Thanks to the current administration, we do live in dangerous times. But your reply had nothing to do with the topic since the loss of rights and abuse of power have nothing to do with the set of rules that cover border crossings.

Diane

TMW - 8-2-2008 at 05:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
We are losing many of our basic civil rights over the past few decades and the blame falls on both sides of the political aisle.

If I were to list the latest abuses just since 9/11 however, but credit them to a different country and government you would call them fascist.

Think about that for a moment before making a knee-jerk partisan response.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin



[Edited on 8-2-2008 by BajaGringo]


Name one right you have lost. Fact is you have not lost any rights granted in the constitution.

gnukid - 8-2-2008 at 05:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TW

Name one right you have lost. Fact is you have not lost any rights granted in the constitution.


1) We lost the right to illegal search and seizure with the FISA bill which allows warrantless wiretapping.

Illegal search and seizure also occurs in roadblocks.

Illegal search and seizure of your laptop means that without cause or suspicion you may have all of your data confiscated as well as your device and you may not it get back and you may be held without charges regardless of evidence of a crime.

2) We lost the right to freedom of speech in many locations such as public centers and party conventions with only designated zones far away from the events.

3) We lost the right to Habeus Corpus which means that you can be held without charge or evidence or any statement for extended periods.

4) You may be named an enemy combatant and held for ever with no charges and no trial while you are tortured.

Can you think of any other recently lost rights? There are a few more.

Its good that we are talking about the recent executive orders which have greatly affected our ability to participate in our republic.

Hook - 8-2-2008 at 07:10 PM

Here's one we discovered recently, after the sale of our house.

We wanted to move some of our proceeds into CDs at institutions paying more than our credit union.

But with the passage of the Patriot Act, a PO Box is not good enough as an established address. You must provide a physical address in the United States to deposit money into an account insured by the FDIC. As we are in the process of moving to Mexico, we dont have a US street address. All institutions denied us an account and pointed to the Patriot Act as the reason.

BTW, it's my understanding that you didnt qualify for the recent economic stimulus checks if you could only show a PO Box. I read of much dismay over this in RV mags from people living on the road and only using a box or mail drop.

Pretty 1984 sounding to me............

guadalupe - 8-2-2008 at 07:13 PM

gnukid beat me to making that point.

I have witnessed personally how government can abuse power and use the threat of national security to abuse personal libertys.

Because of that experience, perhaps I am just a bid jaded and overly sensitive. I will admit being that way and I think that it is important that one is always watching what the government is doing and don't just believe that all is for our own good, just because they say so.




[Edited on 8-3-2008 by guadalupe]

CaboRon - 8-2-2008 at 07:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TW


Name one right you have lost. Fact is you have not lost any rights granted in the constitution.


BajaGringo - 8-2-2008 at 08:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TW
Name one right you have lost. Fact is you have not lost any rights granted in the constitution.


Well, if you are saying that the first, second, fourth, fifth, sixth, eighth and tenth amendments to the constitution are not important, then you are right - we haven't lost any rights guaranteed to us in the constitution, nor are any of those under attack.

I for one would like to keep those rights as originally written and intended. You may be happy as long as you have nothing more than your big-screen TV and beer in the fridge. Some of us expect for our government to live up to and honor its own constitution.

Bajabus - 8-2-2008 at 08:29 PM

Speaking of rights:

AP is reporting today that even if detainees are acquitted by military tribunals they may be held indefinitely by the govt.

http://tinyurl.com/6apw6b
Quote:
"We would not house someone who has finished the military commissions process back ... with the general detainee population. They would be held separate from the other detainees," said Thomas, who added he would not build a new prison.

The tribunals' deputy chief defense counsel, Michael Berrigan, said the possibility of acquitted men remaining confined here reveals the proceedings as "show trials."

"What's the purpose here? Mr. Hamdan is going to be held until the government wants to release him," Berrigan said. "It really has no connection to the underlying reality."


I'm kinda thinking it was not the constitutions framers intent to indefinitely hold someone even after being acquitted in court.....I don't know...just a gut feeling

vgabndo - 8-2-2008 at 08:37 PM

Both Mexico and the USA have a legal separation of church and state. In the US, however, we have had a government imposed national religion since the 1860's. The worst of it coming when the Catholics got the Pledge of Allegience made into a statement of national religion in the 1950's.
The loss of our constitutional freedoms didn't start with the neo-fascists.

The Mexican pledge by contrast...

Flag of México!
Legacy of our heroes,
Symbol of the unity
of our parents
and of our siblings,
we promise you to be always faithful
to the principles of liberty and justice
that make of our Homeland,
the independent,
humane and generous nation,
to which we dedicate
our existence.

Bajaboy - 8-2-2008 at 08:51 PM

Quit being so unpatriotic....our Constitution is not important when it comes to the war on terror. Put on your flag lapel and don't question our grand leader....you might be thrown in jail.

zac