BajaNomad - Border patrol agent held at gunpoint, Officers fear Mexican military encounters will turn violent

Border patrol agent held at gunpoint, Officers fear Mexican military encounters will turn violent

Woooosh - 8-6-2008 at 12:06 PM

More tit-for-tat until someone gets killed (again) I guess...

Washington Times
Wednesday, August 6, 2008

A U.S. Border Patrol agent was held at gunpoint Sunday night by members of the Mexican military who had crossed the border into Arizona, but the soldiers returned to Mexico without incident when backup agents responded to assist.

Agents assigned to the Border Patrol station at Ajo, Ariz., said the Mexican soldiers crossed the international border in an isolated area about 100 miles southwest of Tucson and pointed rifles at the agent, who was not identified.

It was unclear what the soldiers were doing in the United States, but U.S. law enforcement authorities have long said that current and former Mexican military personnel have been hired to protect drug and migrant smugglers.

"Unfortunately, this sort of behavior by Mexican military personnel has been going on for years," union Local 2544 of the National Border Patrol Council (NBPC) said on its Web page. "They are never held accountable, and the United States government will undoubtedly brush this off as another case of 'Oh well, they didn't know they were in the United States.'

"It is fortunate that this incident didn't end in a very ugly gunfight," said the local's posting.

The NBPC represents all nonsupervisory personnel among the agency's 16,000 agents.

Border Patrol spokesman Michael Friel did not return calls for comment Tuesday.

State Department spokeswoman Nicole Thompson said Tuesday that the department had no information on the incident, and referred further questions to the Border Patrol. "It is not an incident that we are aware of," she said.

Ricardo Alday, spokesman at the Mexican Embassy in Washington, said Tuesday that Mexico and the United States are engaged in "an all-out struggle to deter criminal organizations from operating on both sides of our common border."

"Law enforcement operations have led, from time to time, to innocent incursions by both U.S. and Mexican law enforcement personnel and military units into the territory of both nations, and in particular along non-demarcated areas of our border," he said.

"We always try to solve these incidents in a cooperative fashion, and as acknowledged by the Border Patrol, this was the case in the episode at Ajo," he said.

Since 1996, there have been more than 200 confirmed incursions by the Mexican military into the United States.

Local 2544, the largest in the NBPC, is headed by veteran Border Patrol agent Edward "Bud" Tuffly II. He noted on the Web page that the local's leadership would "withhold further comment on this incident until we see how our leaders handle it."

"We don't have much confidence in most of them," the local's posting said.

Sunday night's incident bears similarities to other incursions by armed men in Mexican military gear in recent years:

The incident occurred in the same area where heavily armed Mexican soldiers riding in a Humvee shot at a Border Patrol agent in 2002. A .50-caliber bullet ripped through the agent's rear window as he sped away.

Mexican officials denied at the time that the shooters were Mexican soldiers, saying they were criminals using military uniforms. It is a position they steadfastly have maintained.

But the agent who reported encountering the gunfire was certain he saw soldiers, said Mr. Tuffly. He said at the time that the agent was able to identify their attire "down to a T, and it matched exactly what they [Mexican soldiers] wear."

That purported incursion began after a Tohono O'odham Indian Reservation police ranger reported being chased by men in a Humvee.

A year ago, U.S. law enforcement authorities were confronted by gunfire from automatic weapons as they chased and caught a drug-smuggling suspect in Texas trying to flee back into Mexico, the Hudspeth County (Texas) Sheriff's Office said.

No one was hurt in that incident, and the gunmen were not identified, although the area has been the scene of similar incidents over several months, including a confrontation in January 2007, when heavily armed men in Mexican military uniforms fired on Texas officers with a .50-caliber machine gun mounted on a camouflaged Humvee.

The men were identified at the time by Hudspeth County Sheriff Arvin West as "soldiers."

In that incident, Hudspeth County deputies pursued three sport utility vehicles back to Mexico after spotting them driving north from the Rio Grande. The pursuit ended on the U.S. side of the border when the deputies encountered 10 heavily armed men in what they described as battle-dress uniforms.

At that time, deputies found 1,400 pounds of marijuana in one of the vehicles abandoned after it blew a tire early in the pursuit. Another made it into Mexico and a third got stuck in the Rio Grande and was burned by the "soldiers" after it was unloaded.

cIn November 2007, the Border Patrol chased a dump truck full of marijuana in the same area when it also got stuck in the river while trying to return to Mexico. While agents sought to unload 3 tons of marijuana, the driver - who had fled - returned with a heavily armed group of men wearing Mexican military uniforms and carrying military-style weapons.

The soldiers backed the agents away and bulldozed the truck back into Mexico.

"Nothing was ever done," Local 2544 said. "Nobody was ever held accountable. Particularly galling is the fact that the Mexican military often pulls these stunts in Humvees donated to them by the American taxpayers. We note that Border Patrol agents have historically driven worn-out, junk vehicles."

A coalition of Texas border sheriffs has demanded that the U.S. and Mexican governments investigate incursions into the United States by heavily armed drug escorts dressed in Mexican military uniforms "before someone gets killed."

Sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez Jr. of Zapata County, Texas, who founded the coalition, said a growing number of suspected incursions and violence aimed at the area's law enforcement officers is making the border "a pretty dangerous place."

Sheriff Gonzalez said three of his deputies in 2006 spotted 25 men dressed in military uniforms in the U.S. during a late-night patrol. He said the men marched two abreast and carried duffel bags and automatic weapons, and that his "outmanned and outgunned deputies" were forced to retreat.

"The only thing you can do in that kind of situation is seek cover," Sheriff Gonzalez said. "I'm not going to lose someone in an unfair fight."

The State Department on Tuesday also confirmed a separate case in which two California police officers were arrested at the border Friday on charges of attempting to smuggle guns, ammunition and training materials into Mexico.

A Mexican court is expected to decide Wednesday whether the two Monterey County officers will remain in jail or be released on bail.

The U.S. Consulate in Tijuana said Mexico holds the largest population of U.S. prisoners outside the United States.

[Edited on 8-6-2008 by Woooosh]

CaboRon - 8-6-2008 at 12:14 PM

Maybe it is time to kick some burro ...

I almost wish it had erupted into a firefight .....

Then neither the US or the Mexican gov't could sweep these incursions under the carpet.

CaboRon

Woooosh - 8-6-2008 at 12:18 PM

I was thinking the same thing. Let it boil over to a spirited gunbattle and then let the embasies deny it.

DENNIS - 8-6-2008 at 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
"It is fortunate that this incident didn't end in a very ugly gunfight,"

Mexican officials denied at the time that the shooters were Mexican soldiers, saying they were criminals using military uniforms. It is a position they steadfastly have maintained.

A very ugly gunfight is all that will stop this crap. It's just a matter of time.

The government always denies knowledge of these incursions, as well they should. At the time, the soldiers are working for a different boss, military or otherwise, that doesn't keep records of activities.

How many times do we have to watch the "Time For Beany Show" before we fully understand the complexities of it?

[Edited on 8-6-2008 by DENNIS]

Woooosh - 8-6-2008 at 12:51 PM

We all know the Military/Police/AFI uniforms are widely available and are used by all sorts of criminals in Mexico. Not even the real military/police/afi know each others uniforms. They all hate each other and would fear an encounter with real ones, let alone zetas/drug runners dressed as someone else.

Back to the point- it is possible these weren't Mexican army, but imposters. The last thing the drug cartel wants is to have a gunfight at the border and close their drug and human smuggling corridors.

DENNIS - 8-6-2008 at 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Back to the point- it is possible these weren't Mexican army, but imposters. The last thing the drug cartel wants is to have a gunfight at the border and close their drug and human smuggling corridors.

Not buying it. If it wasn't the military or the cartels, who else has the funds to enter at this level?

You can bet it was

Bajajack - 8-6-2008 at 01:44 PM

the Military, they crossed over into reservation land on a known smuggling route and I'm sure they knew exactly where they were.

They were probably there waiting for a load going north that they could hijack for themselves.

Cypress - 8-6-2008 at 02:41 PM

The Mexican Military? :?:

Mostly a bunch of high school kids that go where they're hauled and do what they're told.

For the most part, a friendly, helpful and polite crowd.

They don't deserve to be caught up in some sort of border incident.

Woooosh - 8-6-2008 at 07:31 PM

So we're back to the culprits being the narcos dressed in military uniforms crossing to complete tansaction?

DENNIS - 8-6-2008 at 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
So we're back to the culprits being the narcos dressed in military uniforms crossing to complete tansaction?

Who knows why? In the meantime, rather than just kissing it off, we should at least call it an invasion of soveriegn territory and begin carpet bombing until we get an answer and free fish tacos for life.

CaboRon - 8-6-2008 at 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
So we're back to the culprits being the narcos dressed in military uniforms crossing to complete tansaction?

Yea !!!! Free Fish Tacos For Life !!!

sanluquëna - 8-6-2008 at 09:16 PM

Both the US and Mexico have issued press releases saying it was all a big misunderstanding and that the two countries stand shoulder-to-shoulder in their battle against the drug trade.

The Mexicans did have the decency to admit that it was their soldiers who where over the border, which is unmarked in the area. That would make more sense where it not for the fact that you can get a GPS device for $99 that tells you where the border is within 10 meters of accuracy.

Woooosh - 8-7-2008 at 09:29 AM

OK- let's start with a small baby wall first, then work up to the double fencing. No border markings or wall at all? geesh

The UT reports 8/7/2008...

Four Mexi- can soldiers crossed into Arizona and held a U.S. Border Patrol agent at gunpoint before realizing where they were and returning to Mexico, federal authorities said yesterday.

The confrontation occurred early Sunday on the Tohono O'odham Indian Reservation, 85 miles southwest of Tucson, in an area fenced with barbed wire, said Border Patrol spokeswoman Dove Crawford.

The soldiers, outfitted in desert camouflage, pointed their rifles at the agent and shouted at him not to move, Crawford said. They lowered their weapons four minutes later when the agent convinced them of who he was and where they were, she said. The soldiers then retreated into Mexico.

The Mexican government has sent soldiers north along sections of the border in efforts to tamp down drug-related violence.

State Department spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos in Washington said the encounter "stemmed from a momentary misunderstanding as to the exact location of the U.S.-Mexican border." Portions of the Tohono O'odham reservation's 75mile border with Mexico have been reinforced with vehicle barriers or other fencing to keep out illegal immigrants and drug smugglers. Other areas only have barbed wire or no markers at all, making it hard to distinguish the boundary.

"There are places where there are no markers, at least not easily found," said Lloyd Easterling, a Border Patrol spokesman in Washington. "We're working with the Mexican government to make sure that this doesn't happen again. This can't be happening." Both countries are investigating, Mexican Embassy spokesman Ricardo Alday in Washington said in a statement.

ELINVESTIG8R - 8-7-2008 at 09:37 AM

This sounds like a legitimate/honest mistake. You can bet I would have done the same. Had this been some illegal operation someone would have ended up dead or at least shot up. I bet both sides were scared.

CaboRon - 8-7-2008 at 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTI8
This sounds like a legitimate/honest mistake. You can bet I would have done the same. Had this been some illegal operation someone would have ended up dead or at least shot up. I bet both sides were scared.

Anyone would do well to be scared when looking at the business end of a weapon.

CaboRon

fdt - 8-7-2008 at 09:45 AM

It seems interesting that none of you have coments on the bottom part of the news report. Just interesting :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

The State Department on Tuesday also confirmed a separate case in which two California police officers were arrested at the border Friday on charges of attempting to smuggle guns, ammunition and training materials into Mexico.

A Mexican court is expected to decide Wednesday whether the two Monterey County officers will remain in jail or be released on bail.

2 California cops arrested in Tijuana
TIJUANA – Two Northern California police officers could face up to 20 years in a Mexican prison after being caught in Tijuana with firearms and about 6,000 rounds of ammunition, authorities said.
The officers, identified as Hermonegenes Llanos and Jorge Luis Matos, were arrested Friday afternoon by Mexican authorities. Both are from the Monterey area.

Advertisement Llanos is a patrol officer and eight-year veteran of the Soledad Police Department in Monterey County. Police Chief Richard Cox confirmed the arrest yesterday and said an internal affairs probe is under way.
Matos was identified as a civilian police sergeant at the Presidio of Monterey, an Army installation.

A U.S. consular official in Tijuana, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case, said the officers could face a variety of charges, most of them involving the possession of weapons and equipment restricted under Mexican law to military use.

The official said the charges carry penalties ranging from three to 20 years in prison.

Lauren Mack, a spokeswoman for U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, said Llanos and Matos were in custody at the La Mesa Penitentiary in Tijuana. However, the consular official said a Mexican federal judge ordered Llanos released on bail yesterday.

The two officers had just crossed the border at the San Ysidro port of entry when their SUV was pulled over by Mexican customs officers for a random inspection, Mack said.

The officers found two handguns and “well over 5,000 rounds of ammo” in the vehicle, one official said. A later estimate put the ammunition at 6,000 rounds, Mack said.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20080807-9...

Woooosh - 8-7-2008 at 10:05 AM

Sorry fdt, I had just started a new thread on that one.

fdt - 8-7-2008 at 10:17 AM