BajaNomad - Vehicle Registration - Catch 22

Vehicle Registration - Catch 22

phoenix2121 - 8-16-2008 at 10:55 PM

Hello everyone, my first post here.

After 4 trips to the Baja in the past year, and many trips before that, my girlfriend and I decided that we are going to take the plunge and move south in May of next year. We're looking for places from Playas de Tijuana all the way down to Puerto Nuevo. We're excited, and freaked a bit at the same time... but more excited than anything.

I have a question though. We planned to sell her car, and then take just mine down to Mexico. The problem is this... in our state (Illinois) you have to get a new registration sticker yearly for your car. I know that Mexican police don't care if your plates are valid (or I've read at least), but my girlfriend will be transferring to the San Diego branch of her office. So that means she'll be crossing the border daily.

My question. How do I keep my car legal in the US, without a US address to renew the plates? I've heard that I can't register a car in Mexico that I've bought in the states, so that's out. Plus I'm not positive that they'd allowed Mexican plates in the states if you could (although I read that they do, I think). And I'm sure I'll have the same concerns for insurance. I have already accepted the fact that I'll be paying for Mexican and American insurance, but do I need a US address for the US insurance?

So, to recap... What do I do about a US address for plate renewals, and insurance?

So my car being legal in Mexico isn't a concern, if what I've read is true (about them not caring about expired plates as long as you have US plates). But, obviously I can't keep my Illinois address and live in Mexico, it'd be more than a bit un-affordable. So what do I do? Any states allow a PO box as an address for vehicle registration? Can I register in Mexico somehow? I'm lost, confused, and I think I need a hug.

Oh, by the way... I'm Bryan, nice to meet all of you. I've been lurking on your forum for quite some time.

MX doesn't care -- unless you're a gringo

Lee - 8-16-2008 at 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phoenix2121
So my car being legal in Mexico isn't a concern, if what I've read is true (about them not caring about expired plates as long as you have US plates).

You'll find info on insurance and vehicles in MX thread by scrolling down posted last week about this subject.

Just my opinion: an attitude that ''illegal'' is OK in MX will come back to bite you.

gnukid - 8-16-2008 at 11:38 PM

This has been covered-use the the search tool to find related posts.

Your car can be from illinois but your residence in mexico, stickers can be mailed to your residence in mexico once you have one.

tsgarcia69 - 8-17-2008 at 12:01 AM

Lee and gnukid:

You've been reading the same questions so many times that you just responded without really reading Bryan's post carefully. Had you taken the time to read Bryan's post a little closer, you would have seen that his girlfriend is taking a job in San Diego. Mexican law is not really the issue here, California law is.

Bryan, in California, a person becomes a resident of the state when he/she takes gainful employment in California. That means your girlfriend will have to get a California driver's license. I don't have all the answers, but I am fairly certain she runs the risk of getting ticketed in California for driving a car with expired Illinois plates, and for not having a California drivers license.

My best guess would be that you should register the car in California using her work address and get a PO Box as a mailing address. California DMV will let you do this. There are companies in San Ysidro that provide PO boxes and forward mail to Mexico. Otherwise, she will be explaining her expired tags to the CHP all the time.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/howto/htvr9.htm#feesdue

phoenix2121 - 8-17-2008 at 12:33 AM

Lee - My attitude isn't that illegal is ok in Mexico, quite the contrary. I had read that it ISN'T illegal in Mexico to drive a car with EXPIRED US PLATES. If this isn't true, then I simply got bad information. My question was actually asked so that I didn't have to have illegal plates in either Mexico, or California. I just didn't know that you can register a PO Box in California as a legal residence for registration renewal.

gnukid - "Your car can be from illinois but your residence in mexico, stickers can be mailed to your residence in mexico once you have one. " - That's not the issue. The issue is that Illinois wouldn't allow me to RENEW my plates once they expired without an Illinois address. I had briefly experienced this with a temporary move to Missouri a few years ago. I tried explaining that I'd be back in Illinois in less than a month, but I still had to register in Missouri, and then re-register in Illinois.

tsgarcia69 - Thanks for taking the time to read my question before jumping to conclusions that I hadn't already researched the topic. I've searched the forums, a lot. Thanks for your great answer!

Thanks for the answer, I'll dive a bit deeper and perhaps call the California DMV. In Illinois you have to have a physical address to renew a registration, so if California accepts renewals with just a PO Box, I think we're all set. Thanks to all!

tsgarcia69 - 8-17-2008 at 12:43 AM

Bryan: California requires a physical address, which would be your girlfriend's work address. But, they also allow you to give them an alternative mailing address which can be a PO Box. That way any DMV mail would come to your PO Box, not your girlfriends work.

They do this because there are still places in small towns and out in the country which have a physical address, but no mail delivery, only to the nearest local post office.

phoenix2121 - 8-17-2008 at 12:50 AM

I think I understand, but the bit that holds me up is the work address as the physical address. I guess she'd have to check with her job first to make sure it's ok, but after that, wouldn't she have to prove that she lived at her physical address? Once again, I'm basing this off of Illinois law which requires a utility bill proving your physical address. My first thought would be to use a paycheck, but these are sent from a corporate office in Charlotte, NC and they'd have her MX address on them if anything.

Does anyone make the commute to San Diego? What do you do?

[Edited on 8-17-2008 by phoenix2121]

Bob and Susan - 8-17-2008 at 05:48 AM

phoenix2121

using a business address to obtain a po box for an individual as their residence is against postal regulations

tsgarcia69 is giving you BAD legal advice
you might want to get a real lawyers advice regarding this issue

consult the the local post office or the postal inspection service if you have questions about the legality of obtaining a po box

remember you are signing a legal document when applying for a poat office box
obtaining a po box fruaduntly IS illegal

the post office has a really weird list of items to prove identity
and then....the mailman has to sign off....

there's alot of fruad out there today

the dmv has other rules

flyfishinPam - 8-17-2008 at 06:26 AM

hi there I aplogize for not reading through this entire thread but i lived in CA for almost 10 years, 10 years ago and my friends who came in from out of state talked about how costly it was to register their car because of lack of CA emissions standards. I think she should sell the car in IL and buy another one in CA.

register it in South Dakota

Keri - 8-17-2008 at 07:18 AM

and I think you don't have that problem.k

oxxo - 8-17-2008 at 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by phoenix2121
I had read that it ISN'T illegal in Mexico to drive a car with EXPIRED US PLATES. If this isn't true, then I simply got bad information.

Yes, it IS illegal to drive a US plated car (of any State) without current registration in Mexico. The Mexican police DO check. I went through a general traffic stop a while back and the police were checking for current registration for both Mexican and US plated cars. Fortunately, my California plated car was current.

Quote:

Illinois wouldn't allow me to RENEW my plates once they expired without an Illinois address. In Illinois you have to have a physical address to renew a registration, so if California accepts renewals with just a PO Box, I think we're all set.

California requires a physical address too. Most private mail boxes (for example Kinkos or MBE) will give you a physical address. But as I recall, you must sign an affidavit, under oath, that the physical address is your residence to get the CA auto registration. You will also have to purchase CA auto insurance and have your car smogged every two years. It MAY be expensive to have your IL car smogged in CA. It just depends.

You're in a tough spot. Don't you have a friend or relative in IL who will let you use their address as your physcial address? But realize that CA will require CA registration on your car, once you have been working in San Diego, I think it is 6 months.

losfrailes - 8-17-2008 at 08:22 AM

Another solution might be to import the vehicle into Mexico. It must be at least 5 years old (latest info I have) and no more than 15 years old.

There have been some recent changes that further restrict the age of the vehicle, but if it fits, it might solve the problem.

It is not against the law for a north american to drive a mexican registered vehicle and you can get insurance coverage from Qualitas in Mexico.

However this would not provide insurance coverage while north of the border.

So the catch-22 still exists.

Best to get the vehicle registered in CA if possible, then insure with carrier of choice up north and Lewis & Lewis to get coverage with Qualitas while south.

[Edited on 8-17-2008 by losfrailes]

palmeto99 - 8-17-2008 at 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by losfrailes
You just have to have the last word don't you!

Why take an overall shot at the USPS employees, and even more specifically one at Bob Frambes.

He was offering good legal advice, not suggesting the use of the USPS services.

I might suggest you post something that adds to the solution for the original thread starter, instead of taking off on a tangent regarding rules of an agency that you probably do not have too much expertise on.

Just telling it like it is. Its not a shot at Bob but at the institution itself. For you to read anything else in it is foolish at best.
Now thats the last word :cool:

Random Thoughts

MrBillM - 8-17-2008 at 10:05 AM

The thing to keep in mind regarding a Physical Address in California is that the stated purpose for that requirement is that it is an address where you may legally be served. They want to know where YOU can be found.

Driving an out-of-state vehicle while working in California can be fraught with problems depending on the local law enforcement. As stated, IF you are employed in California, your vehicle is required to be registered in California OR (unless it's changed) be fined each time you're ticketed.

Down in Palm Springs, the local cops used to stake out the construction sites at quitting time and then nab the construction workers pulling off the sites with out-of-state plates. At that time, you had the option of registering and then paying a fine or NOT registering and paying a penalty on top of the fine.

tsgarcia69 - 8-17-2008 at 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
phoenix2121

using a business address to obtain a po box for an individual as their residence is against postal regulations

tsgarcia69 is giving you BAD legal advice
you might want to get a real lawyers advice regarding this issue

Apparently, poor reading comprehension has reached epidemic levels on this message board. This is exactly what I said, verbatum:

"There are companies in San Ysidro that provide PO boxes and forward mail to Mexico."

Now, I have to ask Bob, how can you read that and then conclude that I was telling Bryan to get a USPS PO Box? Does the USPS forward mail from its mailboxes to Mexico?

Sorry Bryan, Bob is giving you BAD advice. There are thousands of ex-pats in Baja who live there full time, who do not have a US residence, and who have a private PO Box in San Ysidro.

Bob and Susan - 8-17-2008 at 10:59 AM

i don't know if you know this but...

the ONLY people that can use the term "PO BOX" are renters of post office boxes in a regualr post office

those rental places are different
those boxes are refered to PMB's (private mail boxes)

and yes when you move out the postal service will forward 1st class mail to mexico...but...you MAY never see it

some things i do know...
maybe...mr garcia...
if you had written it correctly i could have understood what you were trying to say :lol:

Car reg

tehag - 8-17-2008 at 11:11 AM

Maybe a better source of info would be: http://cadmv.org/ or http://www.dmv.ca.gov/ They may know the regs better than this board does.

Also, friends I've known have registered cars in Mexico only to find that those Mex plates attract unwanted attention from the US agents at the border. Can be a big waste of time explaining and/or visiting secondary to explain.

[Edited on 8-17-2008 by tehag]

Bob and Susan - 8-17-2008 at 11:26 AM

tehag

is that really that bad at the border

i wanted to import my truck soon to avoid all that registration stuff in california

when i had utah plates the police DID take a second look at me EVERY trip to upland ca

that is true

i've been watching the mexican plate cars cross alot lately
i've been up and down 3 times last month
alot of driving...and crossing

the passport really helps at the border

gnukid - 8-17-2008 at 11:35 AM

Excuse me if I misunderstood the questions, however I believe I do.

There is no value in a california reg nor mexican reg in this case. Those are costly and highly problematic unnecessary solutions in this case.

All is well. Keep it simple. Simply change the illinois vehicles mailing address for the vehicle registration to your new baja address or a friends in baja where the stickers can be delivered. Complete the registration changes and payments on line. No problem.

Bob and Susan - 8-17-2008 at 12:23 PM

how would you get the stickers for the plates in baja?

paying would be easy...
does ill. have safety or smog inspections?
that might be a problem...
the dmv won't mail to mexico

registering the car in california is very costly
you have to import it to california PLUS smog
i've done this on colector cars and it costs money

IMHO
sell both cars
buy a mexican car in tj
register it there
get a mexican license

Just do it!

Lee - 8-17-2008 at 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tsgarcia69
Lee and gnukid:

You've been reading the same questions so many times that you just responded without really reading Bryan's post carefully. Had you taken the time to read Bryan's post a little closer, you would have seen that his girlfriend is taking a job in San Diego. Mexican law is not really the issue here, California law is.

How the F do you know what I read? Don't need a lecture if you haven't researched this subject yourself.

Quote:

Originally posted by phoenix2121
So my car being legal in Mexico isn't a concern, if what I've read is true (about them not caring about expired plates as long as you have US plates).

So, tell me again how this comment ISN'T about MX law? Whatever you two have been reading, and BELIEVING, is wrong. Read Oxxo's post again since you don't believe me.

Personally, I don't care where your vehicle is registered. There's no way around it -- you'll pay to have a US car in Baja -- one way or another. Just do it -- be legal.

[quote oxxo]But realize that CA will require CA registration on your car, once you have been working in San Diego, I think it is 6 months.

It's 90 days from start of employment in CA.

Woooosh - 8-17-2008 at 01:27 PM

After reading the above responses are you sure you want to move to where these people live... And these are the smart ones in the neighborhood!

Here's my un-needed advice on he car...

Do it clean and do it legal if you are using it for regular cross border trips. Since your wife will work in CA, it will need to be registered/insured there by law. It can be done in Mexico once you have the right Visa, but it's thousands of dollars versus hundreds in CA. I know- you'd think Mexican plates would be easier and cheaper. Nope.

I had my motorcycle registered to a UPS Store address (pricey at $30/month) in San Diego with no problems. It also provides the necessary physical address for on-line shopping at the same time.

If you lease or owe money on the car- the lienholder in 99% of the contracts won't allow you to move it out of the country, so you'd have to register it in CA and say it was garaged in CA half the time.

Insure it in CA and then get an annual Mexican liability-only policy. You are going to park it in your locked garage at night. If you don't have a garage- don't bring it. It's hard to keep a catalytic converter on a car parked on the street these days.

gnukid - 8-17-2008 at 01:52 PM

Just to be a stickler:

If you are from the State of Illinois and you move to Baja for semi-permanent residence and travel to work in San Diego in a shared vehicle, you are legally allowed to maintain your legal address as Illinois and your residence and mailing address as Baja. The BF is valid with Illinois plates and the GF is valid sharing the vehicle in SD because she is only traveling there to work not to live. She is not a resident of California. Her home state is Illinois and her residence is Baja.

If she replied oh I live in SD now, that would trigger the "oh how long have you lived here" period of time requiring her to get a new license and plates, smog, taxes etc... Of course this event is going to be lingering on the horizon but she has time and plenty of it in this case which warrants reduced costs etc...

My suggestion is based on the fact that new things tend to change, so go slowly, if after time things look permanent then you will want to purchase a California hoochy car and become permanent, blond, uptight etc... In this case, one would maintain the Illinois license as primary and Illinois plates and reg until a later date or demand requires change. Personally I would get a Mexico license, Ca License and Illinois license for most flexibility depending on your circumstance and let the car thing wait a bit.

wornout - 8-17-2008 at 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tsgarcia69
Bryan: California requires a physical address, which would be your girlfriend's work address. But, they also allow you to give them an alternative mailing address which can be a PO Box. That way any DMV mail would come to your PO Box, not your girlfriends work.

They do this because there are still places in small towns and out in the country which have a physical address, but no mail delivery, only to the nearest local post office.

Not True (about the California Physical Address) I have lived in San Felipe, Baja, for 10 years. For the first 5, I registered my car with a mail place address and bought 1 day insurance (Imperial County does NOT have smog testing or requirement). Then one time I went in to the DMV and said, 'Can I be honest here?' The reply was 'Yes'. I explained that the car NEVER comes to California or the old country. She said where is it? I said, San Felipe. She typed in El Dorado Ranch, San Felipe, Baja, CA. Then took 5 dollars off the registration (County tax) because the car was NOT in a California county. This went on for 3 years until California quit taking 1 day insurance policies. The new insurance law went in to effect last year. So, on to South Dakota I went. :-)

Bob and Susan - 8-17-2008 at 06:47 PM

i did that too to avoid smog...

the law changed last year...

wornout - 8-17-2008 at 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
i did that too to avoid smog...

the law changed last year...

I know the insurance law changed, but I didn't know the smog changed. At any rate, South Dakota is the place of choice now but I am sure that will change before we ever see a national registration for snow birds.

phoenix2121 - 8-18-2008 at 08:34 PM

I'm more confused than when I started. The UPS Store address sounds like the best bet if it is actually counted as a physical address. But I don't want to break the law or anything if it's illegal.

Doesn't anyone live in the baja that makes the commute to San Diego? What do you guys do?

palmeto99 - 8-18-2008 at 08:37 PM

I drive up once a month to Point Loma` and get my mail and packages at a private mailbox company.. Its` a long day drive. :cool:

Whatever happened to....?

MrBillM - 8-18-2008 at 09:04 PM

The proposed rule to require that any vehicle (Mex or U.S.) crossing the Border more than three times monthly show proof of California Smog Emissions compliance ?

It was a couple of years back that San Diego was arguing that their failure to meet Air Quality standards was due to the high number of persons in Non-California registered vehicles crossing the border on a daily work commute.

As far as I'm aware, the proposed plan never went anywhere, but it would seem likely to come up again.

Quien Sabe ?

Bob and Susan - 8-19-2008 at 06:01 AM

i crossed 3 times recently and no mention of that...

they DO ask why i cross ALL the time

only one time was i sent to secondary

k-rico - 8-19-2008 at 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by phoenix2121
I'm more confused than when I started. The UPS Store address sounds like the best bet if it is actually counted as a physical address. But I don't want to break the law or anything if it's illegal.

Doesn't anyone live in the baja that makes the commute to San Diego? What do you guys do?

There's no easy solution, especially when you add in US car insurance (don't tell them you live in Mexico). I use a friend's house address in San Diego for DMV and insurance purposes. I do stay there occasionally. I was using a PMB address but switched to try to keep a step ahead of the authorities. I know, it's not right, but............

I also buy Mexican car insurance from a travel club (minimum liability only). It's for tourists, which I'm not, so that's a ruse too.

A real residential US address is the best. A private mail box (PMB) at a UPS store is second best. I also have one of those within walking distance of the border in San Ysidro that I use for all other mail.

Get the UPS PMB first, then try to find a real US residential address to use. When you switch to the PMB address do not use PMB xxx for DMV purposes. I used #xxx instead and it worked for the two years I used it for DMV and insurance. I figured using "PMB" in the address might tip them off.

Good luck, governments and insurance companies make it real hard to keep your feet on both sides of the border.

Also, IMHO, commuting daily across the border is going to be a real grind, even with a Sentri pass, which is a huge can of worms I bet for an American with no US address, but I don't know.

I would not live in Mexico and commute to the US on a daily basis. Fortunately the Internet allows me to telecommute.

[Edited on 8-19-2008 by k-rico]

oxxo - 8-19-2008 at 08:30 AM

Quote:

I don't think a post box, either PMB or USPS is a legal address as far as establising CA residency to register a car. I hate to make ths complicated, but you may want to check with a CA attorney.

Quote:

Doesn't anyone live in the baja that makes the commute to San Diego? What do you guys do?

Some legal Mexican nationals commute from Mexico to CA on a daily or weekly basis to work. If they have a Mexican plated car, they hope they don't get caught. But a Mexican plated car in CA is a magnate for the Border Patrol and eventually they get caught for not having a properly registered car.

Other legal Mexican nationals commute to work in CA with a CA plated car and purchase the CA insurance and have the car smogged every two years. They use a relative's or friend's address in CA as their "residence."

CaboHenry - 1-12-2009 at 08:08 PM

OK Guys..... don't get mad at me for entering this forum to ask what could be a silly question. Please point me to the proper forum if one exist.

What is the easiest way to get a currently CA plated car (not expired and insured) a Mex plate (BCS)? It's a '97 and it spends all its time in BCS. I prefer not to drive it back up to TJ and deal with an importer. The Mexican residents in my area tell me this can all be handled down south (La Paz?).

Where can I get proper info? Any websites?

Katiejay99 - 1-12-2009 at 08:32 PM

You can have it done in La Paz. I'll u2u the info to you.

Phil S - 1-13-2009 at 07:41 AM

k-rico. A red light flashed when I read about your statement regarding a travel club providing you with insurance as a tourist!!!!!!! but you aren't.
have you had the policy read by an attorney as to it's legality in event of an accident in Mexico where you 'reside' as a full time resident?? Wouldn't surprise me if there was a 'weasel' provision that would exclude payment if you were 'full time resident' of Mexico. Because rates are based on probablility factors. I presume that you are buying insurance this way because it is 'cheaper'. Cheaper sometimes has strings attached to it in cases of automobile insurance. Just food for though!!

[Edited on 1-13-2009 by Phil S]

oxxo - 1-13-2009 at 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phil S
A red light flashed when I read about your statement regarding a travel club providing you with insurance as a tourist!!!!!!! but you aren't.
have you had the policy read by an attorney as to it's legality in event of an accident in Mexico where you 'reside' as a full time resident?? Wouldn't surprise me if there was a 'weasle' provision that would exclude payment if you were 'full time resident' of Mexico.

I checked with Vagabundos del Mar about this very question. The office in San Diego told me that their insurance is void if the insured vehicle spends over 180 days in Mexico.

Fatboy - 1-13-2009 at 08:07 PM

A lot of replies here so some of this may be said...

1. You do NOT have to register your car in California just because you work here.

2. Once you do meet the residence requirements for California you have 20 days to get the vehicle legal.

Here is part of Ca. Vehicle Code...

6700.2. (a) Notwithstanding Section 4000.4, subdivision (a) of Section 6700, or Section 6702, a nonresident daily commuter may operate a motor vehicle on the highways of this state only if all of the following conditions are met:

(1) The motor vehicle is a passenger vehicle or a commercial vehicle of less than 8,001 pounds unladen weight with not more than two axles of the type commonly referred to as a pickup truck.

(2) The motor vehicle is used regularly to transport passengers on the highways of this state principally between, and to and from, the place of residence in a contiguous state and the place of employment in this state by the owner of the motor vehicle and for no other business purpose.

(3) The motor vehicle is not used in the course of a business within this state, including the transportation of property other than incidental personal property between, and to or from, the place of residence in a contiguous state and the place of employment of the motor vehicle owner in this state.

(4) Nothing in paragraphs (2) and (3) prohibits a nonresident daily commuter operating a motor vehicle that displays currently valid external vehicle identification indicia and who possess a corresponding identification card issued pursuant to Section 6700.25 from using that vehicle for other lawful purposes.

(b) The exception to registration of a motor vehicle under the conditions specified in this section does not supersede any other exception to registration under other conditions provided by law.

(c) This section does not apply to a resident of a foreign country.

Of course that last line is the kicker for you. There is another section of the vehicle that touches on the Foreign issue some more.

So if you are a TRUE resident of Mexico...Now if your residence is still in the states also...?

Take some time reading the California Vehicle Code(yeah, lot's of fun!!!)

Either way good luck!