Mulege Flash Flood 8/25/08

More news of Mulege

sharron i know Tom and Patty well

All very accurate info posted so far....

Just did a town loop this morning and seems everything said so far is as I saw it as well. The town itself is a mess and still no power or gasoline as of 1PM. The road from El Burro/Posada to town has many road blockages-




and just as you get to the PEMEX on Mex1, there is a little missing section-



As stated earlier, water was not as high as with John. In the Orchard most water marks were at the door tops-






[IMG]

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m208/casamanzana/Julio6.jpg[/IMG]



One has to wonder what this will do to the Mulege river housing market. One lady said "Hard to believe...two One Hundred Year Storms just two years apart".

add small downtown report

Electricty yet????

Anyone know if power is back on in Mulege?

flooding in guaymas

Lets hope thats the last of these storms but the season has a month left. I would clean but not rebuild until Oct.

Mulege during Julio

Mulege during Julio



A good example of why it is not good to build in a river's flood plain.

As the only summer resident at Posada, I can say....

CasaManzana, Thanks for the info.

Some Damage on the Hill

I imagine they got hit too Bob. Very sad for all of us.

According to some, we pretty much deserved it. I don't know about them but I must have!

It will be up and running in no time I'm sure.

Thanks for your concern. Corky

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja I imagine they got hit too Bob. Very sad for all of us. According to some, we pretty much deserved it. I don't know about them but I must have! It will be up and running in no time I'm sure. Thanks for your concern. Corky

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja I imagine they got hit too Bob. Very sad for all of us. According to some, we pretty much deserved it. I don't know about them but I must have! It will be up and running in no time I'm sure. Thanks for your concern. Corky

Shark,

No one thinks you deserved the flooding .
If you were in the states and got wiped out three years out of five because of high water,.People would wonder why you did not build somewhere else, on higher ground or at the very least build on stanchions (posts)to at least the new established high water mark.

There will be no shortage of clothing, supplies and other sundries as required and donated if it floods again this year or the next, People will just shake their head at those who did not heed mother natures warning.

Yell if you want to...this was a small TS...it came over the top of me and rained for 3 days
what is up with that...we have many ruts...Mulege is wiped out???
After passing Todos Santos it dropped in power by 30-40%. This was nothing compared to what may come...or John.
Someone said 2, 50-100 year storms in two years????????????
This was a small tropical "nothing" storm. Someone needs to ask what is up?
I feel for the losses, but still have to ask WHY?


Cypress...sorry, cannot restrain myself to one liners for post count...for god sakes say something that means something.
edit: spell checker worst then me... well maybe in 50-100 year perfect storm



[Edited on 8-29-2008 by Al G]

I won't resort to name calling.......

Nobody likes a Pollyanna except maybe a few like-minded saps.

Let me repeat something and ask you this stupid question because you DID read it before.

Question: (w/o hitting any search engine)

How many people in the world live in places vunerable to the effects of water and why?

clue: The Earths' surface is 7/8 water.

And one more thang Mr Prophecy, don't expect me to invite you to our semi-annual flood sale or dinner float party!!!

Oh & btw , if you knew our place you would understand why it still stands and why it can be cleaned up with relative ease.


Al, maybe it's just an evil god at work and some of his minions gather here. Cuidadoso!



[Edited on 8-29-2008 by Sharksbaja]

[Edited on 8-29-2008 by Sharksbaja]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja Nobody likes a Pollyanna except maybe a few like-minded saps. Let me repeat something and ask you this stupid question because you DID read it before. Question: (w/o hitting any search engine) How many people in the world live in places vunerable to the effects of water and why? clue: The Earths' surface is 7/8 water. And one more thang Mr Prophecy, don't expect me to invite you to our semi-annual flood sale or dinner float party!!! Oh & btw , if you knew our place you would understand why it still stands and why it can be cleaned up with relative ease. Al, maybe it's just an evil god at work and some of his minions gather here. Cuidadoso! [Edited on 8-29-2008 by Sharksbaja] [Edited on 8-29-2008 by Sharksbaja]

Shark,

If shoveling out the mud and power washing your "weatherproof" concrete house every 1 to 2 years is Baja living at its best, good luck to you. I would head up to Wal-mart and pick up some plastic furniture and a styrofoam cooler for a fridge as well as a outdoor BBQ in place of a stove.

There are other who I am sure will take the steps required
to ensure they do not have to go through this again.
This was a minor storm and when the big one hits, It might even be a hurricane and not a tropical depression.

Not everyone in Mulege was "wiped out".
Just the die hards on the river.

And what would be your sage advice for people living in, say, Florida, or tornado alley, or San Francisco and anywhere else along the San Andreas fault?

Quote:

Originally posted by bajamigo Quote: Originally posted by palmeto99 I would head up to Wal-mart and pick up some plastic furniture and a styrofoam cooler for a fridge as well as a outdoor BBQ in place of a stove. And what would be your sage advice for people living in, say, Florida, or tornado alley, or San Francisco and anywhere else along the San Andreas fault?

Aren't you kind of contradicting yourself here.

And..Fishhawk...you're spot on.

[Edited on 8-29-2008 by vandenberg]

This is getting really juicy

Quote:

Quote: Originally posted by vandenberg Hurricanes and earthquakes are chance happenings. Residual river flooding is predictable with rainfall and does not qualify as a freak happening. Aren't you kind of contradicting yourself here. And..Fishhawk...you're spot on. [Edited on 8-29-2008 by vandenberg]

NO.

I feel good I edited all the nasty stuff out of my last post. Frankly I could care less what this individual and his pure safe life has to offer up.

Still you did not answer that easy question, why??


Laugh of the day:

Mil gracias for that!!

I have not been posting here because of the recent tone. Who needs it? So, now you've got the "tone" without the "art".

However, because this string affects me personally, I had to jump in. Yes, I have a beautiful, (brand new in 2006) casita in The Orchard. And yes, it got flooded again.

Rationale for building there: There had been a small flood a couple of years before, which flooded a few feet inside low lying houses along the river and some low lying houses set back from the river too. We can deal with that. Until then, there hadn't been a flood of any magnitude since 1957.

Our newer houses were built with solid foundations, walls of cinderblock with rebar. The floors are 4' above ANY historical flood line since 1957. They can't be moved or raised on stilts.

When Hurricane John struck, it was downgraded to tropical storm status before hitting Mulege. As far as I know, all hurricanes downgrade to tropical storms by the time they reach that far north. What made John so unique (freakish, if you will), was that it traveled up the spine of the mountains and then stalled out over Mulege, dropping 20" of rain in 24 hours. As you can imagine, it all rushed down the mountain arroyos, flooded the whole valley behind Mulege and then dropped into the Mulege River in a surge.

The surge carried with it, decapitated palm trees, debris from up river, cows, pigs, fish, sewage and stinky toxic mud. Not only was the floodline over the eaves of our houses. The water came with such a force as to shear off the lanterns that were bolted to the exterior walls by the front door, punched big chunks of out of the stucco, took out landscaping including palm trees. It took out gates and gate posts, log fences, water pumps/motors, propane tanks, hot water heaters, a/c units, filled in septic tanks and pilas. It also knocked over the concrete pillar that held the electric meters, electrical main, and water mains. It was all ripped right out of the ground and replaced with 5 feet of mud piles and debris.

Again, this was the first flood of that magnitude since 1957, and then there weren't many houses along the river. Oh yes, it was a calculated risk; a risk we lost, but we all figured, well....that's it for another 50-100 years, as per historical records. We had made large investments there(large for me, anyway). Yes, yes, yes...."Never invest in Mexico more than you can afford to lose". You can't just walk away from it. You have to restore it. ("Rebuild" was not required and is a misnomer).These are NOT palapas! And, we have Fideocomisos.

Now comes "Julio". Well, call it what you will but it is quite apparent that something is causing changes in the modern weather patterns. We are discovering this along with New Orleans, Indonesia, our midwest and you. Julio came up the western Sea of Cortez coastline and carried tons of water. It moved more quickly but not before flooding our river, the city of Constitution and others, roads, and then it roared across the SOC causing devastating floods in Guaymas. Were they stupid to build a city there?? Who knew?

So, as Sharks does, so will we! We will shovel mud, scrub walls with fresh water and bleach, and re purchase lost appliances and furniture. I don't really think that I will restore it for a second time to its original beauty. I don't think I will spend much money on comfortable furniture and decorations; at least none that I can't move out as I close it up for the summer and fall.

One other thing: Hurricane season isn't over until late October. It could happen again next week. We are wiser now. I am only going to have a crew do a rough cleaning and then do the detail work when I return in the late fall. This plan is already being implemented.

As far as I am concerned, this is our paradise. I wouldn't trade my paradise for any of yours. Unless you have spent time in Mulege, you are not qualified to judge.You don't know what you are talking about. In fact, I am very happy with my neighbors, the local Mexican Nationals, the town and where it is located. I am also happy that the people who ignorantly criticize haven't moved to Mulege and aren't my neighbors. We don't want you polluting our paradise like you have polluted Bajanomad.

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart I have not been posting here because of the recent tone. Who needs it? So, now you've got the "tone" without the "art". However, because this string affects me personally, I had to jump in. Yes, I have a beautiful, (brand new in 2006) casita in The Orchard. And yes, it got flooded again. Rationale for building there: There had been a small flood a couple of years before, which flooded a few feet inside low lying houses along the river and some low lying houses set back from the river too. We can deal with that. Until then, there hadn't been a flood of any magnitude since 1957. Our newer houses were built with solid foundations, walls of cinderblock with rebar. The floors are 4' above ANY historical flood line since 1957. They can't be moved or raised on stilts. When Hurricane John struck, it was downgraded to tropical storm status before hitting Mulege. As far as I know, all hurricanes downgrade to tropical storms by the time they reach that far north. What made John so unique (freakish, if you will), was that it traveled up the spine of the mountains and then stalled out over Mulege, dropping 20" of rain in 24 hours. As you can imagine, it all rushed down the mountain arroyos, flooded the whole valley behind Mulege and then dropped into the Mulege River in a surge. The surge carried with it, decapitated palm trees, debris from up river, cows, pigs, fish, sewage and stinky toxic mud. Not only was the floodline over the eaves of our houses. The water came with such a force as to shear off the lanterns that were bolted to the exterior walls by the front door, punched big chunks of out of the stucco, took out landscaping including palm trees. It took out gates and gate posts, log fences, water pumps/motors, propane tanks, hot water heaters, a/c units, filled in septic tanks and pilas. It also knocked over the concrete pillar that held the electric meters, electrical main, and water mains. It was all ripped right out of the ground and replaced with 5 feet of mud piles and debris. Again, this was the first flood of that magnitude since 1957, and then there weren't many houses along the river. Oh yes, it was a calculated risk; a risk we lost, but we all figured, well....that's it for another 50-100 years, as per historical records. We had made large investments there(large for me, anyway). Yes, yes, yes...."Never invest in Mexico more than you can afford to lose". You can't just walk away from it. You have to restore it. ("Rebuild" was not required and is a misnomer).These are NOT palapas! And, we have Fideocomisos. Now comes "Julio". Well, call it what you will but it is quite apparent that something is causing changes in the modern weather patterns. We are discovering this along with New Orleans, Indonesia, our midwest and you. Julio came up the western Sea of Cortez coastline and carried tons of water. It moved more quickly but not before flooding our river, the city of Constitution and others, roads, and then it roared across the SOC causing devastating floods in Guaymas. Were they stupid to build a city there?? Who knew? So, as Sharks does, so will we! We will shovel mud, scrub walls with fresh water and bleach, and re purchase lost appliances and furniture. I don't really think that I will restore it for a second time to its original beauty. I don't think I will spend much money on comfortable furniture and decorations; at least none that I can't move out as I close it up for the summer and fall. One other thing: Hurricane season isn't over until late October. It could happen again next week. We are wiser now. I am only going to have a crew do a rough cleaning and then do the detail work when I return in the late fall. This plan is already being implemented. As far as I am concerned, this is our paradise. I wouldn't trade my paradise for any of yours. Unless you have spent time in Mulege, you are not qualified to judge.You don't know what you are talking about. In fact, I am very happy with my neighbors, the local Mexican Nationals, the town and where it is located. I am also happy that the people who ignorantly criticize haven't moved to Mulege and aren't my neighbors. We don't want you polluting our paradise like you have polluted Bajanomad.

The Jungle

Palmnut, you've made it blatantly clear that you don't come from sturdy pioneer stock & that you'll always play it safe rather than follow your dreams. The people who chose to have casas along the river in Mulege do so for reasons that are beyond your comprehension. I haven't seen any "Oh, woe is me!" posts begging for sympathy, what I have seen is you rubbing their noses in the fact that they're facing another setback, financial lost & possibly a temporary setback in their dreams.

Whether you UNDERSTAND their choices or not is a moot point, they DO understand the full potential & choose to follow their dreams. Financially I feel sorry for people like Sharks & Toneart & many others, but emotionally, I applaud their spirit in following their dreams; they have what it takes to succeed!! IMHO, it's you with a superior attitude who feels the need to criticize their choices & their intelligence when you have no dog in their fight & you who will always take a "safe" route....that I feel sorry for.

You've made your point, so please stop maligning them & their choices & take your negativity elsewhere! They have what it takes to persevere & live their dreams, even in the face of occasional adversity! Stop kicking them when they're down!!

Edit typo

[Edited on 8-29-2008 by longlegsinlapaz]

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz Palmnut, you've made it blatantly clear that you don't come from sturdy pioneer stock & that you'll always play it safe rather than follow your dreams. The people who chose to have casas along the river in Mulege do so for reasons that are beyond your comprehension. I haven't seen any "Oh, woe is me!" posts begging for sympathy, what I have seen is you rubbing their noses in the fact that they're facing another setback, financial lost & possibly a temporary setback in their dreams. Whether you UNDERSTAND their choices or not is a moot point, they DO understand the full potential & choose to follow their dreams. Financially I feel sorry for people like Sharks & Toneart & many others, but emotionally, I applaud their spirit in following their dreams; they have what it takes to succeed!! IMHO, it's you with a superior attitude who feels the need to criticize their choices & their intelligence when you have no dog in their fight & you who will always take a "safe" route....that I feel sorry for. You've made your point, so please stop maligning them & their choices & take your negativity elsewhere! They have what it takes to persevere & live their dreams, even in the face of occasional adversity! Stop kicking them when they're down!! Edit typo [Edited on 8-29-2008 by longlegsinlapaz]

Is it being negative to suggest to people they use common sense. If that is true,I am guilty of that.

Do what you want in Mulege but stop the whining. Tony and the river people should take steps as was pointed out to them.
As for being a pioneer. I checked out where I bought in the early 90s and made sure I was not in harms way.Am I safe from storms? Not completely but I have taken precautions after every storm incident and have reduced my financial and emotional exposure.

Tony, I would assume you will be lowering your price on your house and give full disclosure to any potential buyers.
I just saw it on a Mulege real estate web site that has it listed for $145,000.00 US

If being a pioneer is living as mud people on the river, I am not of good enough stock for that lifestyle.

I do not live on a flooding river.
Even a hillbilly would be able to figure out that flooding rivers could be a problem.
Loreto floods and has been hit but no one in Loreto builds in or around an arroyo .

The only good thing to come out of this storm will be that any newbies interested in purchasing in Mulege might get the full disclosure on the river flooding potential that they are due.
There seems to be a lack of communication in that department in the hamlet of Mulege.

palmeto99, Many of the folks in Mulege impacted by Julio haven't fully recovered from John, maybe some of 'em will walk away, put their place on the market and move on, or possibly just abandon it. Others will clean up the mess and enjoy Mulege. If I was fortunate enough to have a place in Mulege, I'd clean it up and enjoy it.You want to talk about storms? I'm listening.

Toneart,

I just read in a previous post that Pam and Randy who you mentioned sold their place near you and rebuilt somewhere else. I also just read that their new home was high and dry.

Interesting. Sell the old place in the flood area and build a new place on higher ground. What a brainstorm that was.

Maybe when you and the rest of your friends get down there for your cleanup, you can ask Pam and Randy how they did it.

That describes Mulege river folk to a T.

palmeto99, You know all about Mulege River folk? Have you ever lived along the Mulege River?These guys have been hammered.They don't need to be kicked while they're down. How 'bout some encouragement? They're hanging in there and showing some serious backbone.

Quote:

Originally posted by palmeto99 That describes Mulege river folk to a T.

Please earmark all your donations for the Mexicans. The americans on the river do not need donations.

Remember when you said no one deserves it? Well, you may wrong, again!

I'd put the storm plywood up there pretty soon there Palm. Who knows what's gonna happen in Florida. Where did you say your place was? Even saintly folks like yerself can be humbled. Believe it or not.


Still waiting for your answers to my simple questions. What, you can't play that game? Purely and thoroughly troll.

Sorry,

Oh, about being in harms way. Where is your place and tell me how safe it is in Florida. God forbid you are near the sea.


btw, I'll take a rant over a troll any day, they tend to stick in yer teeth


edit for punchline

[Edited on 8-29-2008 by Sharksbaja]

I am on an island just north of the GA. SC. border on the east coast.
We deal with storms all the time here so its not an emotional issue for some of us.

Well ok then, Iam completely satisfied with your honest reply. You are a real nut-case. nuff said

Thank you my little finned friend.

Dude- Give it a rest, por favor!!

Sure is not I.Q.!!

Personal attacks are the norm for you "veterans"

Heres a little info for you really smart and holier than thou crowd.
I do not feed on anything but post rebuttal to what I see on this forum.
I believe Sharks Baja is a big boy and can stand up for himself without your help.
I will continue to point out the obvious to some of you dingalings when it comes to subjects that need to be addressed.
I think what bothers some of you"veterans" is that some members of this board call a spade a shovel and some of you just are not capable of that.
Have a blessed weekend

We raised almost 5 thousand dollars right here for pumps, hoses and apparatus for the Mulege bomberos> Do you know anything about that??Have you found the photos?
It's a long post, it might behoove you to read it.

We also made suggestions that were positive and well thought out should we be struck again.

Nobody sticks up for me. Why would they have to? They or rather most of them are capable thinkers, and doers.


Your whole point is moot why do you insist on continuing your diatribe?


[Edited on 8-30-2008 by Sharksbaja]

Shark, Let me swim into your little pond for a minute.

Most if not all of anything donated to the bomberos in Mulege happened because Jim Christopher and the Rotary there make and made it happen with the help of other Rotary clubs in the states.They also run the clinic with great success there.
They are the ones that replaced all the water pumps for Muleges water system with the help of the Rotarions out of Washington state.
I saw during John that you were requesting funds on this board but stop blowing your horn because there were many ,many others who do not need to inflate their egos by bragging about their efforts to help with the aftermath.

During the hurricane John flooding, it was Julieta and the Santa Rosalia Rotary that dealt with the donations for Mulege and Santa Rosalia .

[Edited on 8-30-2008 by palmeto99]

I totally agree... just ingnore him/her, whatever IT is.
Bob H

Cancer feeds on a consistent blood supply

Keep doing what you are good at. Pump out the u2u messages .

No, don't stop me now!!!

I will now direct my words to the Nomads.


Here is what I know..


I want Pierce palmeto99 to fess up to who he is. His legacy is well known in Mulege/BOC. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to find him out.

If you want juicy stuff on this guy it's out there, replete with his death threats.

His motis operndi, take money and provide nada except promises. His word is mud, no person this side of hades trusts him.

Many of us have met him albeit in other places. He's a very mad unstable individual with a personality disorder. He's fooled many because he accels at what he does.


He's been kicked out of Baja because of his disdain for Mexico and all things therein.

He's been reading this forum for a long time. He has no home on the east coast or Baja. He's a full-on pathological liar and feeds his disease here and resents our ability to enjoy all Baja has to offer.

This guy is a whacko.


This is no rant.:

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja I will now direct my words to the Nomads. Here is what I know.. I want Pierce palmeto99 to fess up to who he is. His legacy is well known in Mulege/BOC. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to find him out. If you want juicy stuff on this guy it's out there, replete with his death threats. His motis operndi, take money and provide nada except promises. His word is mud, no person this side of hades trusts him. Many of us have met him albeit in other places. He's a very mad unstable individual with a personality disorder. He's fooled many because he accels at what he does. He's been kicked out of Baja because of his disdain for Mexico and all things therein. He's been reading this forum for a long time. He has no home on the east coast or Baja. He's a full-on pathological liar and feeds his disease here and resents our ability to enjoy all Baja has to offer. This guy is a whacko. This is no rant.:

Look who has lost his mind .Everything I have posted is fact. I have not a clue what you are ranting about.

For your viewing pleasure.......

......and just to toot our horn, here is the stuff we supposedly did not donate to the bomberos.











[Edited on 8-30-2008 by Sharksbaja]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja ......and just to toot our horn, here is the stuff we supposedly did not donate to the bomberos. [Edited on 8-30-2008 by Sharksbaja]

You really are a looneytoon

Gee....uh....thanks Larry....I guess!

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho Quote: Originally posted by Sharksbaja Yep! The question here is credibility... one can be a loon and merit respect. --Larry

South Side of River?