BajaNomad

La Paz ray massacre

55steve - 8-26-2008 at 03:58 PM

I usually try not to cross-post stuff but this got my attention - anyone know about this?

Terrible stuff

[Edited on 8-26-2008 by 55steve]

[Edited on 8-27-2008 by 55steve]

comitan - 8-26-2008 at 04:10 PM

Nothing new, been going on for years. I really thought they slaughtered them all years ago, Most of the street taco stands have tacos with Manta Raya you have to ask, by the way their low fat not deep fried.

tripledigitken - 8-26-2008 at 04:26 PM

That is outragious. To lose that many Manta Rays in one location is beyond words!


Ken

bajajazz - 8-26-2008 at 04:34 PM

People who do things like this are defective. They should be subject to a factory recall.

tripledigitken - 8-26-2008 at 04:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
...... I really thought they slaughtered them all years ago.......


Comitan,

I haven't been out on the water in La Paz, but every year I am out in either BOLA, or Mulege. Most trips down I will see Manta Raya's. Last July saw a couple in one day off Mulege. They are magnificent to see and many times will jump out of the water. Sorry you are not getting to experience the sight of these creatures.

Ken

Ken Bondy - 8-26-2008 at 04:44 PM

Those are mobulas, not manta rays. They are smaller and travel throughout the Sea of Cortez in large groups. They are the ones that are commonly seen doing fantastic aerobatics in their leaps out of the water. They are a true marine treasure and their slaughter is very tragic.
++Ken++

palmeto99 - 8-26-2008 at 04:48 PM

Are you really surprized. Most Mexican do not think in terms of the future or saving for a rainy day.
There is always a chorus on this board who say let them do whatever they want as it is their country.
After 19 years of Baja and many stories such as this. I have decided to look the other way and let them destroy the country and not get involved.
I am now in Baja just for the good weather and the sandy beaches and have given up on the majority of people in Baja
who are comitted to destroying the ecosystem as fast as they can.:cool:

gnukid - 8-26-2008 at 04:48 PM

If you look at the bahia de la ventana there are nets that are placed along the shoreline toward Punta Arenas to catch everything that passes along the shoreline current. The fisherman catch shark and keep the fins only and catch manta raya.

They don't want to stop because it is what they have always done. Its how they have always earned their living and they have no other options. There are less and less Rays and Sharks every year.

It could be great to mount a campaign to stop the nets that catch and kill so many fish and the finning of sharks, but how?



If you have the energy and can work with reasonable approaches it could help.

Ken Bondy - 8-26-2008 at 04:50 PM

Manta ray:



Mobula:

shari - 8-26-2008 at 04:55 PM

can someone please give these guys the address of whatever enviro group might help...they have good evidence....Pam?

tripledigitken - 8-26-2008 at 04:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by palmeto99
Are you really surprized. Most Mexican do not think in terms of the future or saving for a rainy day.
There is always a chorus on this board who say let them do whatever they want as it is their country.
After 19 years of Baja and many stories such as this. I have decided to look the other way and let them destroy the country and not get involved.
I am now in Baja just for the good weather and the sandy beaches and have given up on the majority of people in Baja
who are comitted to destroying the ecosystem as fast as they can.:cool:


I am outraged everytime I hear of incidents like this. Surprized was a long time ago I'm sorry to say.

And thanks Ken for the pictures of the two different Rayas. I seem to recall now that distinction made over some pictures of them jumping awhile back.

Ken

cabobaja - 8-26-2008 at 05:04 PM

Ditto Shari!!!!!!!!!!

gnukid - 8-26-2008 at 05:45 PM

There are quite a few smart people here, perhaps there are some suggestions for political approaches to reduce the amount of nets and reduce the finning?

I think a multiple pronged campaign approach is good, logical, emotional, empathetic which speaks to the fisherman and the community while also working as a group toward political solutions... which in turn will help replenish resources, improve business for tourism and guarantee future resources and work in tourism and fishing.

The issue is one which almost can not be discussed in the surrounding community because it is so divisive, thats a big problem which could possibly be overcome with education about benefits of reasonable conservation for the future. %@#&!

Jack Swords - 8-26-2008 at 06:14 PM

There is always a daily catch of mobulas on the Magote off La Paz after the fishermen clean their catch. Also small sharks are there too. The University is continually sending a boat out to measure the remains and take a skin patch (species identification) to ascertain the catch and keep statistical data. I have talked to them at length and they are aware of the problem and are documenting it. Attempts are being made to retrain fishermen into other endeavors to some success. Similar problems are occurring off the CA coast with few rockfish, no abalone, New Jersey sized dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico, etc.

A valid contact in La Paz would be Florence Cassassuce
Project Coordinator on water
cassassuce@hotmail.com
(52) 612 122 1171
Sociedad de Historia Natural Niparajá, A.C.
La Paz, Baja California Sur, MEXICO

Niparajá is a strong environmental force in La Paz and environs. Flo would be my first contact. Good luck!

Jack Swords

4baja - 8-26-2008 at 06:20 PM

actually jack there is more rockfish off our coast now then there was ten years ago as reported by cal poly and several others but thats besides the point. welcome to mex is all i have to say, walk along the shores on the pacific side and the beaches are coverd with them and hammer head shark heads..

Don Alley - 8-26-2008 at 06:20 PM

One strategy is not to focus strictly on species (mobulas, turtles, etc) but on the fishing gear used. Gill nets and drift gill nets are a big problem, and any attempt to protect a particular species is worthless as long as these nets are in use.

Possible contacts include Seawatch

The East Cape hotel/fishing resorts have had some success (and recent setbacks) in limiting nets. Their experience currently is that nets are largely being set by pangas working for a wholesale company with connections with CONAPESCA. There is no incentive to set these nets without the cooperation of the wholesalers; it may make sense to begin any negotiations/regulations/enforcement there.

While little is being done, there are Mexicans who are aware of the problem and interested in solutions. I wouldn't hold my breath, but I haven't quite given up.

Paulina - 8-26-2008 at 06:45 PM

We've found that many times when we've ordered scallops off of a menu, we are actually eating Mobula. They usually use a cookie cutter, but the last time we took a chance, the plate of scallops came to the table triangle shaped....Hmmmm? when's the last time you saw a scallop with three sharp corners?

P<*)))>{

elgatoloco - 8-26-2008 at 07:14 PM

Sad :(

Ken Bondy - 8-26-2008 at 07:26 PM

In California waters angel sharks (fairly large, bottom dwelling, docile spade-shaped sharks) used to be taken by the thousands so their "wings" could be cut up with cookie cutters and the meat sold as "sea scallops" (it was illegal in the US to call them "scallops" but "sea scallops" was ok). When I started diving in California 30 years ago I used to see angel sharks on almost every dive at the Channel Islands. At a few spots at Catalina I would see fifty or more on a single dive. It has now been about five years since I have seen a single angel shark.
++Ken++

Angel shark:




[Edited on 8-27-2008 by Ken Bondy]

BMG - 8-26-2008 at 08:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Bondy[/i

]It has now been about five years since I have seen a single angel shark.
++Ken++


That is incredibly depressing. I am not optimistic when it comes to the future of many of Mexico's fisheries.

Alan - 8-26-2008 at 09:49 PM

Heck, you can buy manta ray at CCC. I understand all of this hand wringing over this practice in Baja because it hits so close to home for us but it continues to happen everywhere. As long as fish are allowed to be harvested by indiscriminate means such as gill nets and long lines, fisheries will continue to be destroyed. The photos showed piles of ray carcasses but that is only what they were harvesting. Typically gill nets kill 80-90% of unmarketable by-catch.

All of the Louisiana long line boats are now operating out of CA because they have already depleted the Gulf yet it seems that no one other than sportfishermen seem to care. Do people really think that only the marketable swordfish are eating those baits?