BajaNomad

4 Los Cabos police arrested for murder of American

Coatlallope - 8-30-2008 at 11:31 PM

An American from oregon, Sam Botner, was arrested at the La Jolla condominimums in Cabo. The cops took him to the police station, handcuffed him, and beat the crap out of him, leaving him on the jailhouse floor where he drowned in his own blood. Videotapes at the jailhouse have been erased or blocked out. Some evidence was destroyed. The state attorney general's office is investigating and the US Embassy has asked for information on the matter.

http://www.tribunadeloscabos.com.mx/newpage/index.cfm?op=por...

And The Hits Just Keep On Commin'

CaboRon - 8-31-2008 at 06:01 AM

I am just contunuely amazed at the low lifes that inhabit the police departments in Mexico.

Was there ever any attempt to train or screen these cave men BEFORE they were hired ??

Where is the accountability ?

CAboRon

woody with a view - 8-31-2008 at 06:52 AM

becoming a cop in mexico is a surefire way to double the size of your chilito. you know, machismo...

Hooker33 - 8-31-2008 at 07:36 AM

From the article in the Tribuna I was not able to translate the cause for the arrest of Mr. Botner. Can you help me out? This is another example of the problems we face as residents in Los Cabos.

Cardon Man - 8-31-2008 at 07:43 AM

I have yet to have a problem with the small town cops in Baja Sur. But the police in La Paz or Los Cabos are to avioded at all cost in my experience. Interactions with them often result in mordida...or worse. The last thing decent folk in Los Cabos need is a horror story like this. "Low Season" will be hitting all time low's.

[Edited on 8-31-2008 by Cardon Man]

Cardon Man - 8-31-2008 at 07:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hooker33
From the article in the Tribuna I was not able to translate the cause for the arrest of Mr. Botner. Can you help me out? This is another example of the problems we face as residents in Los Cabos.


As I translate it...Botner was involved in a fight with another guest at La Jolla resulting in arrest.

bajajudy - 8-31-2008 at 09:12 AM

I am trying to get more info on this incident
And, yes, this is all we need. Can you say "mas bajo de todo"?

baja Steve - 8-31-2008 at 09:48 AM

Sam is a known drug dealer in his home town in southern Oregn. I feel sorry for his family but maybe the cops should get a promotion

oxxo - 8-31-2008 at 09:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by baja Steve
Sam is a known drug dealer in his home town in southern Oregn.


I believe you, but how do you know this?

It was Ronald Reagan who said, "trust but verify."

[Edited on 8-31-2008 by oxxo]

More defense of the MX cops doing their job

Lee - 8-31-2008 at 10:01 AM

When cops are painted in ''broad strokes'' and sweeping generalizations and stereotypes, especially Mexican cops, I'm always puzzled. Who are the people making these inaccurate and unfair accusations?

In EVERY police department, including the New Orleans police department, there are a handful of bad cops -- guys who will take money, turn their back on someone needing help, and even using their authority and power to line their pockets.

I've heard the number is 10%. At the LAPD, that's about 1,000 ''badges''. Being F-over by one of these scumbags is luck of the draw.

Generally, and I write that word in loose terms, there are more honest and decent cops in Mexico (Baja) than there are bad ones. There might be some ''stations'' that have MORE than 10% bad cops, but that too is luck of the draw.

The problems might be ''regional'' as well. DF being one of the problem areas -- just as New Orleans has had it's problems.

I think it's the nature of police business. Good guys move on or up (lateral moves) and bad guys stay on and get hardened and calloused.

When you're in trouble and/or need help, who you gonna call?

If you're innocent and have committed no crimes, you have nothing to worry about.

Woooosh - 8-31-2008 at 10:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
When cops are painted in ''broad strokes'' and sweeping generalizations and stereotypes, especially Mexican cops, I'm always puzzled. Who are the people making these inaccurate and unfair accusations?

In EVERY police department, including the New Orleans police department, there are a handful of bad cops -- guys who will take money, turn their back on someone needing help, and even using their authority and power to line their pockets.

I've heard the number is 10%. At the LAPD, that's about 1,000 ''badges''. Being F-over by one of these scumbags is luck of the draw.

Generally, and I write that word in loose terms, there are more honest and decent cops in Mexico (Baja) than there are bad ones. There might be some ''stations'' that have MORE than 10% bad cops, but that too is luck of the draw.

The problems might be ''regional'' as well. DF being one of the problem areas -- just as New Orleans has had it's problems.

I think it's the nature of police business. Good guys move on or up (lateral moves) and bad guys stay on and get hardened and calloused.

When you're in trouble and/or need help, who you gonna call?

If you're innocent and have committed no crimes, you have nothing to worry about.



It's the vitims fault... It's a media problem... The security problem is only in Baja Norte... Tourists aren't the intended victims...

Mexico indeed has a death penaty- just no trials leading up to them. There must be a box on the police application that asks if they tortured their pets when they were young. It's the same sick menatality that is pervasive in the police, army and narcos.

After the decaps near Cancun, the shootouts in TJ and now police murders in Cabo- there's little reason for tourists to visit Mexico.

Mexico is just stuck on stupid- it's the only explanantion. It needs to wipe itself and flush twice.

bajajudy - 8-31-2008 at 10:23 AM

Mexican authorities investigate death of Oregon man

By Serena Markstrom

The Register-Guard

Published: August 31, 2008 12:00AM


The Mexican equivalent of the Attorney General’s office is investigating the death of an Oregon tourist who was beaten by local police while vacationing in San Jose del Cabo, a beach town near Cabo San Lucas on the Baja Peninsula, according to Mexican media reports.

Mexican news outlets have reported that the death appears to be aggravated murder, and the United States consulate in Mexico has intervened on behalf of the tourist, Sam Botner, who died Aug. 27 at a jail.

Botner died after four officers allegedly beat him, an assault that a local paper, Tribuna de los Cabos, says was caught on jail video and witnessed by other police and inmates.

No English language accounts of the death or subsequent investigation were available, but according to Spanish language papers, police involved in the death are being investigated for negligence and “golpe,” which translates to “beating.”

Classmates.com lists a Sam Botner as attending Yoncalla High School from 1984 to 1988. Mexican newspapers report that Botner was 38 and was from Oregon. Attempts to reach Portland resident Kim Botner, which one newspaper said was the name of the victim’s wife, were unsuccessful Saturday.

El Sudcaliforniano, another paper in Baja California, reported on Aug. 29 that Sam Botner’s wife, Kim Botner, identified the body.

The pair apparently was staying at a condo where police responded to a woman’s call that she was being robbed by a man. Three agents and a commander arrived and beat Botner, the presumed robber, both at the condo and later at the jail, the newspaper reports. Botner was pronounced dead on arrival at a Mexican clinic.

The four police involved were detained the night of the incident, but three disappeared by Friday, the Tribuno reported.

The paper reported Saturday that the jail surveillance tapes had been tampered with, prompting investigators to quickly secure other evidence from the scene.

Witnesses said that after the jail beating, Botner tried to sit up, but started to convulse then appeared to choke on his own blood, the newspaper reported.

Other detainees called out for the police to help, and they came immediately but the man was already dead, the newspaper reported. Investigators found the surveillance tapes tampered with and the cell Botner was in had been cleaned, the newspaper reported.

Areyoufrigginkiddinme?

Dave - 8-31-2008 at 11:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
If you're innocent and have committed no crimes, you have nothing to worry about.


I don't know if you could say that with 100% certainty anywhere but certainly not ever in Mexico. If that were the case this place would be overrun with tourists...And all the police would starve.

As to your, "more honest and decent than bad cops" comment:

Percentage of Mexican authority taking, or has taken a bribe. What's your best guess?

[Edited on 8-31-2008 by Dave]

There are no honest cops

Bajajack - 8-31-2008 at 11:54 AM

in mexico, half of em are just plain bad and the other half either ignore it or look the other way.

Redefining ''is''

Lee - 8-31-2008 at 01:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
If you're innocent and have committed no crimes, you have nothing to worry about.


That's MY belief system and how I think. I've been around the block -- no reason for me to think things are going to change -- in my belief system of cops.
Quote:
If that were the case this place would be overrun with tourists...And all the police would starve.


Baja and MX isn't for everyone. Some would argue that Baja/MX is already overrun by tourists. I wouldn't.
Quote:

Percentage of Mexican authority taking, or has taken a bribe. What's your best guess?


I can't guess a percentage and there's no way to accurately put a number on my statement. Everything is subjective -- so if you think all cops are corrupt, that's how it is for you.

I don't consider a cop taking a bribe as corruption. Cartel activities and decapitated people would be corruption.

Obviously

Dave - 8-31-2008 at 01:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
I don't consider a cop taking a bribe as corruption.


But it is.

Plain and simple.

stanburn - 8-31-2008 at 01:58 PM

I am just wondering, am I the only one to ever compare present day Mexico to the United States 80 - 100 years ago?

Mexican revolution ended in 1917, 91 years ago.

Think about the United States in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

Why would you think the Mexican society can advance more rapidly than the United States?

Proudly living full-time in Mexico and safer here than NOB!

Stan in Santiago

woody with a view - 8-31-2008 at 02:05 PM

they have a great blueprint to go by NOB. they're too dumb to want to advance any faster, obviously. the wild west is no more. 3rd world cops with first world tourists......not a good combo.

My final answer

Lee - 8-31-2008 at 03:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
I don't consider a cop taking a bribe as corruption.


But it is.

Plain and simple.


Plain and simple for you. I'm happy for you.

It's not plain or simple to me, and I have my own opinion. A bribe is not corruption to me.

Woooosh - 8-31-2008 at 04:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by stanburn
I am just wondering, am I the only one to ever compare present day Mexico to the United States 80 - 100 years ago?

Mexican revolution ended in 1917, 91 years ago.

Think about the United States in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

Why would you think the Mexican society can advance more rapidly than the United States?

Proudly living full-time in Mexico and safer here than NOB!

Stan in Santiago


Mexico didn't get a clean start like the US did. Mexico carried on the corrupt ways of the Spanish because they didn't have the leadership to do anything else.

stanburn - 8-31-2008 at 05:14 PM

whoooosh,

thanks for strengthening my argument. If everyone is pretty much in agreement that from an evolutionary standpoint (government & society, not people) Mexico is behind the the United States, then why is so much gum flapping spent on applying the NOB standards to the Mexican society?

At least they haven't overthrown any sovereign foreign governments and then have been unable to keep basic services at the same level of the evil government that was overthrown. Oh wait I went off topic again!

Coatlallope - 8-31-2008 at 06:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by stanburn
thanks for strengthening my argument. If everyone is pretty much in agreement that from an evolutionary standpoint (government & society, not people) Mexico is behind the the United States, then why is so much gum flapping spent on applying the NOB standards to the Mexican society?


I don't think I understand your comment. Having an honest and functioning police force is a standard expectation of all civilized societies, not just NOB. It is not a NOB standard, it is a civilized standard found in all advanced societies.

I would also like to point out that society is people. Your statement defining society as something different than people is all but gibberish.
Quote:
Originally posted by stanburn
At least they haven't overthrown any sovereign foreign governments and then have been unable to keep basic services at the same level of the evil government that was overthrown. Oh wait I went off topic again!


Study your history. The Spanish overthrew the Aztec empire to conquer Mexico. Along the way they wiped out 90% of the indigenous population. In a way, the indios of Mexico are still a conquered people as they have not been incorporated into society.

You started counting Mexico's life from the revolution in the early 1900's. But Mexico is the oldest country in the Americas; it's over 500 years old, two centuries older than the US. Mexico was not comprised of a bunch of Neanderthal's living in caves before the Revolution. The Revolution was just about land reform. That alone does not explain the lawlessness in Mexico today. And I think you have watched a few too many Western's in your life. The US in the 1800's was not lawless and crime was relatively low. The Wild West is just a creative fiction. The only killings were usually among single drifters in barfights.

Mexico should be way ahead of where it is today. It's per capita GDP is only 1/4th of the US and it managed to avoid all the disasters in the 20th Century. No WWI, no WWII, no Cold War. Take a look at Japan as an example. In 1946, after WWII, Japan was stripped down to bare metal. It had squandered all its capital prosecuting the war. Japan had virtually nothing, it was poorer than Mexico. Look where it has come in the 60 years since the war. Japan's per capita GDP is now three times that of Mexico.

You can apologize for Mexico all you want, it does not change the facts on the ground. Mexico has only a 9% European population, 30% pure indio and 61% mestizo, yet there has not been an indio president in 70 years. Take a look at the pictures of Mexican presidents -- al gueros.

CaboRon - 8-31-2008 at 07:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Coatlallope


Study your history. The Spanish overthrew the Aztec empire to conquer Mexico.

Mexico is the oldest country in the Americas; it's over 500 years old, two centuries older than the US.



Just wanted to point out what can happen during the heat of a rant .... and the lack of the preview button for screening these before publishing ...

While I agree with much of what you say, I just had to point out a couple of things from a history perspective.

BTW - IMHO:

Oldest Country in the Americas probably should go to the Incas ...

moldyboldy - 8-31-2008 at 08:20 PM

so now the cops in cabo cant be trusted anymore.bodies all over cancun
.its not just tj anymore.its starting to happen in the resort towns.dont get drunk at cabo wabo and walk home or the cops might shake you down

Paulina - 8-31-2008 at 08:30 PM

Moldyboldy,

Tell me that you're being facetious.

It's always been that way.

Si?

P<*)))>{

oxxo - 9-1-2008 at 04:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by moldyboldydont get drunk at cabo wabo and walk home or the cops might shake you down


Public drunkeness is illegal in Los Cabos. I think it should be. If you want to get drunk in public, you might want to consider going someplace else.....like downtown LA. Cops won't shake you down there, but who knows what else might happen.

From the Tribunal

bajajudy - 9-1-2008 at 06:56 AM

Portada - 01 / 09 / 2008
Abuso de autoridad, tortura y homicidio, entre los cargos contra policías involucrados en muerte de turista

San José del Cabo.

La Procuraduría General de Justicia del Estado -PGJE-, considera que los policías municipales arraigados y relacionados con la muerte del extranjero Sam Botner, podrían ser responsables de los delitos de: abuso de autoridad, tortura y homicidio, por lo que continúan integrando la averiguación previa.
La PGJE que dirige Fernando González Rubio Cerecer, confirmó que ayer fueron trasladados a La Paz, bajo estrictas medidas de seguridad, los policías municipales: José Luis Flores, Ariosto Gómez Vázquez y Francisco Javier Martínez; el Oficial de Barandilla, Emilio Ramírez Teodosio; el radio operador, Luis Norberto Rosas Rosas y el comandante de grupo Martín Burgoin Olachea, todos los anteriores permanecerán por 30 días en la casa de arraigo.
Un elemento de prueba más en contra de los agentes de Seguridad Pública, es la versión del médico legista de la misma institución municipal, mismo que el día de la detención certificó a Sam Botner con sólo una lesión contusa en nariz y boca, pero al mostrarle las fotos del cuerpo encontrado ya sin vida y las lesiones que éste presentaba, el galeno negó categóricamente que esas fueran las que llevara al momento de haberlo él auscultado la noche del miércoles 27 de agosto.
También en la declaración de uno de los policías detenidos, éste aceptó haber golpeado al turista americano estando el hoy occiso esposado de las manos y tirado al piso, propinándole más de una patada.
La PGJE sigue en espera por el momento de los resultados de algunas pruebas periciales muy importantes, como el dictamen histopatológico y el del video.
Hasta el momento la PGJE, ha enfatizado que han trabajado en el marco normativo de sus facultades, investigando e
integrando la averiguación previa, para aportar al Juez todos los elementos para que determine la culpabilidad o inocencia de los policías relacionados con la muerte del turista Sam Botner.

En las investigaciones para esclarecer las condiciones en que falleció un extranjero en las celdas de la cárcel municipal, la Dirección General de Seguridad Pública y Tránsito Municipal ha brindado todas las facilidades y coadyuvado con las autoridades del Ministerio Público del Fuero Común para que se aclaren los hechos y se deslinden las responsabilidades en contra de quién o quiénes resulten responsables, aunque es importante aclarar que por derecho constitucional nadie puede ser condenado de un hecho sin antes ser oído y vencido en juicio.
El titular de la Dirección General de Seguridad Pública y Tránsito Municipal, Apolinar Ledesma Arréola, mantiene una estrecha comunicación con el Procurador General de Justicia en la entidad, Fernando González Rubio Cerecer, para aportar toda información o documentación que se requiera para integrar la averiguación previa en torno a las condiciones en que falleció el extranjero Sam Botner.
Prueba de ello es que la misma noche del miércoles 27 de agosto en que sucedió el lamentable suceso los 6 elementos participantes en la detención, traslado y reclusión del extranjero, de manera voluntaria se presentaron ante el Ministerio Público del Fuero Común para declarar en torno a los hechos y se deslindará la responsabilidad de cada uno de ellos.
De igual forma se giraron las instrucciones de cooperación y presentación de cualquier documento o indicio que esté en áreas de competencia de la Dirección General de Seguridad Pública y Tránsito Municipal ha sido una orden reiterada a los mandos y personal que esa noche estuvieron de turno.
Contrario a los rumores que se han dejado esparcir, los expedientes de los 6 policías -presuntamente involucrados en los lamentables hechos- se encuentran en los archivos de la Dirección General de Seguridad Pública y Tránsito Municipal y a disposición de la autoridad competente que lo requiera, sin embargo es importante aclarar que hasta el momento ni por oficio ni de manera verbal tales documentos han sido solicitados.
Asimismo es importante precisar que las cámaras de video instaladas en el interior de la cárcel municipal su total control lo tienen las autoridades de la Contraloría Municipal y nadie ni mandos policiacos, medios y superiores, tienen acceso a los materiales que en forma diaria se graban, por lo que en tales condiciones la Dirección General de Seguridad Pública y Tránsito Municipal no puede acceder a la manipulación de las imágenes de video.
Como trabajadores de la corporación policiaca, los 6 elementos que se encuentran a disposición del Ministerio Público y presuntamente involucrados en la muerte del extranjero, José Luis Flores, Ariosto Gómez Vázquez, Francisco Javier Martínez, Emilio Ramírez Teodosio, Luis Norberto Rosas Rosas y Martín Burgoin Burgoin, han tenido todo el apoyo para su defensa jurídica sin embargo es importante precisar que si de las investigaciones que se realizan alguno o varios resultan responsables, la Dirección General de Seguridad Pública y Tránsito Municipal refrendará su compromiso de que todo aquel elemento que se aparte de ley debe asumir su responsabilidad a título personal y por las conductas que se desplieguen en el ejercicio de su función.
En este X Ayuntamiento que encabeza René Núñez Cosío se han girado instrucciones precisas para que el estado de derecho no se vulnere y el actuar de la Policía Municipal este apegado a la legalidad. No habrá disimulo ni tolerancia contra quien infrinja la ley, trátese de quién se trate.
La Dirección General de Seguridad Pública y Tránsito Municipal reitera su compromiso y disposición de brindar toda la información que se tenga al alcance para el cabal esclarecimiento de los hechos, así como seguir trabajando para lograr tener una policía profesional y capacitada, que se conduzca con disciplina, orden y respeto.
Es importante destacar, que en el informe de los 100 días, se destaco que en estos primeros 3 meses de la administración fueron puestos fuera de circulación 103 presuntos distribuidores de droga, evitando que lleguen, a la población juvenil y adulta, 2,162 dosis de cocaína, marihuana y crystal, coadyuvando con ello en la erradicación de éste cáncer social que lacera a las familias mexicanas y en particular a la de Los Cabos.



From what I can translate
The 4 policemen have been moved to La Paz, their files intact and the video tape not tampered with.
They are awaiting an autopsy, I think, and review of the video tapes.
The last paragraph is a pat on the back for all the drug dealers they have apprehended in the month of august.
Maybe someone more fluent can elaborate.

capt. mike - 9-1-2008 at 07:04 AM

Coatlallope

very cogent. good points. you should post more, you nailed it man! good show.

By "plain and simple" I meant that:

Dave - 9-1-2008 at 12:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
It's not plain or simple to me, and I have my own opinion. A bribe is not corruption to me.


Offer or acceptance of a bribe is against the law.

You know what laws are, don't you? Aren't they written rules that police are sworn to uphold?

Or is that just my opinion? :rolleyes:

whalemeat - 9-1-2008 at 01:31 PM

Since when is a bribe not against the law. Thats whats wrong with Mexico and other third world countries that look the other way when this happens. Robbery and kidnapping and just one rung up the ladder for these crooks that pretend to serve the public. Its no wonder people are concerned.

Exactly!!!

Dave - 9-1-2008 at 01:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by whalemeat
Since when is a bribe not against the law. Thats whats wrong with Mexico and other third world countries that look the other way when this happens. Robbery and kidnapping and just one rung up the ladder for these crooks that pretend to serve the public. Its no wonder people are concerned.

When is a law not a law. When it's a bad law.

Lee - 9-1-2008 at 02:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Offer or acceptance of a bribe is against the law.

Yes, in MX and US.

Quote:
You know what laws are, don't you? Aren't they written rules that police are sworn to uphold?


I'm well aware of the laws moreso from an enforcement POV. Yes to the 2nd question.
Quote:
Or is that just my opinion? :rolleyes:


A bribe in the US is a bribe. Depends on the circumstances of the ''bribe'' and who is making the bribe.

In MX, things are different. Yes, a bribe is against the law but that doesn't mean anything. If a law (bribery in MX) is unenforceable, or selectively enforced, then it's a bad law. To me, bad laws are not laws.

If you're gringo in MX, bribery is (probably) a necessary evil. If you're MX, bribery is something else. Ask a MX if they consider bribery ''against the law'' in MX.

If my point isn't made or understood, there's little more I can say. Maybe u2u would be better.

I've already said this issue is not ''pure and simple.'' EVERYBODY here is entitled to their opinion. Including me.

I do consider the Cabo cops in this thread as corrupt.

Later news in English

Coatlallope - 9-2-2008 at 09:54 AM

http://www.nwcn.com/statenews/oregon/stories/NW_090208ORN_or...

"EUGENE, Ore. - An Oregon tourist is dead after being taken to a Mexican jail, and six Mexican officers are under house arrest in the death.

Sam Botner, a crab fisherman from Yoncalla, Oregon and his wife Kim went on vacation last week in San Jose del Cabo, near Cabo San Lucas. The trip was to celebrate Sam's return from fishing season in Alaska.

But the trip didn't go well, according to Botner's wife, who told KGW after four days they felt taken advantage of because they did not speak Spanish. They were planning to return home early.

On August 27th, the couple had returned from dinner around 8:30 p.m. Kim Botner said they both went for a swim in the ocean. Her husband went up to their rented condo to change while she stayed on the beach.

A short time later, she said she heard her husband shouting angrily. She ran to the parking lot and saw a man sitting on the ground. She said Sam had gotten into a confrontation with a security officer working at the condo.

Police arrived, handcuffed Sam Botner and took him to jail.

Kim Botner said he was resisting the officers, but did not deserve to die in the Mexican jail.

“I’m sure he was resisting,” she said. " But he was handcuffed the whole time, they told me that. And within one hour after they arrested him, he was dead. I’ve seen 29 pictures after they arrested him and they beat him to death."

"No matter what, the people know what they did. I'd like some justice, but they're going to have to live the rest of their lives knowing that they killed somebody," said Paul Botner, victim's brother.

Six Mexican officers have been placed under house arrest on suspicion of homicide, according to Baja California Sur state deputy prosecutor Omar Bajaras. At least one of those guards admitted kicking Botner in the face, according to authorities.

A medical examiner recorded minor bruises on Botner's face at the time of his arrest, but more were found on his body after his death, the prosecutor said.

Barajas said the police officers gave contradictory statements about the man's incarceration. One confessed to kicking him in the face. Others said the victim hit his face on the ground when they pushed him to the floor to subdue him.

Surveillance video and witness statements indicate that officers struck the victim, Barajas said.

The U.S. Consulate said it was working with Mexican authorities on this investigation. "

Coatlallope - 9-2-2008 at 10:24 AM

Another article on this. The poor guy left three childred in Oregon.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/09/dead_yoncal...

bajajudy - 9-2-2008 at 10:37 AM

Thanks for the update
After this thread went south, I was afraid that we would get no more details
My deepest sympathy goes out to this family.

tripledigitken - 9-2-2008 at 02:56 PM

Coatlallope,

Clever handle! Am I correct with the translation of "to tread on snakes?" Sounds dangerous, not a hobby I hope?

Welcome to BN.


Ken

Bajalover - 9-2-2008 at 05:59 PM

Cops - House arrest - YEAH RIGHT! Believe that and .........! A hitman should be found to take out these cops "permanently". That's the right thing to do.
I rest my case.

DENNIS - 9-2-2008 at 06:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajalover
- House arrest -


In my day I've been in a couple of "houses" which I was sorry I ever had to leave.

More news on this incident.

bajajudy - 9-6-2008 at 02:37 PM

From The News:

Jailed tourist died due to spleen injury

ASSOCIATED PRESS

CABO SAN LUCAS, B.C.S. - A state prosecutor says a U.S. tourist drowned in his own blood while in police custody.

Sam Botner of Yancalla, Oregon, was arrested on Aug. 27 in the resort of San José del Cabo and was later found dead in a jail cell. Prosecutors say a surveillance video shows officers beating Botner.

In an interview Thursday, Baja California Sur state prosecutor Fernando González said Botner suffered a ruptured spleen and then died of asphyxiation after internal bleeding blocked his airway.

Six police officers are under house arrest in the death. Prosecutors have two weeks to determine whether they will bring charges in the case.

HOME | SECTION


From Tribuna de Los Cabos


Portada - 06 / 09 / 2008
Confía Procuraduría que Juez cuente con elementos para proceder contra policías por homicidio

San José del Cabo.

Cumplen una semana los seis elementos uniformados de arraigo en La Paz. Mientras tanto en Yoncalla, Oregón, Estados Unidos, familiares y amigos lo despedirán en una ceremonia religiosa, donde estarán presentes sus cenizas.

A semana y media de la muerte del turista americano Sam Botner, en las instalaciones de la Dirección General de Seguridad Pública de esta ciudad, hoy en su pueblo natal de Yoncalla, Oregon, Estados Unidos, familiares y amigos lo despedirán en una ceremonia religiosa, donde estarán presentes sus cenizas.
Mientras esto ocurrirá hoy en Estados Unidos, en La Paz, los agentes de Seguridad Pública de Los Cabos: José Luis Flores, Ariosto Gómez Vázquez y Francisco Javier Martínez; el Oficial de Barandilla, Emilio Ramírez Teodosio; el Radio Operador, Luis Norberto Rosas Rosas y el comandante de grupo Martín Burgoín Olachea, cumplirán apenas una semana de arraigo autorizado por el Juez.
Por su parte la Procuraduría General de Justicia del Estado -PGJE- confirmó que la integración de la averiguación previa por la muerte del estadounidense Sam Botner, esta por concluirse, y confían que con las pruebas aportadas, declaraciones y testimoniales, el Juez tenga los elementos suficientes para proceder en contra de los policías.
La Dirección General de Seguridad Pública y Tránsito Municipal de Los Cabos, a cargo de Apolinar Ledesma Arreola, distribuyo entre los mandos superiores de la corporación un Manual de Procedimientos para la Detención y Traslado de los Detenidos, esto para evitar más hechos de sangre.
"Después del niño ahogado, tapan el pozo"
Fernando Castillo Domínguez

This article is about a service in Oregon for Mr. Botner
It states that the policemen are in La Paz.
It also says that the judge has enough evidence to proceed against the policemen.
The last saying is interesting.
"After the child has drowned, they cover the well."

cabokid - 9-8-2008 at 03:21 PM

Talked to a person that saw this man Botner running around the complex in which he was staying acting crazy yelling and screaming with a knife in his hand . He cut or stabbed another renter and wanted to fight anyone in his path .Police were called in which Botner still having knife in hand refused to comply with police. The poliice managed to jump on him but not without a fight first and resisted arrest.

Don't know what took place after in jail and surely he didn't deserve to die but the whole story is not what you read.

I've seen here in the states where in this situtation the police shoot first and then ask questions. I wonder if they had to do over again if they would take a different approch

gnukid - 9-8-2008 at 03:44 PM

Funny, Cabokid, there is only one CaboKid? Now, later, suddenly you? have the insight to what happened which suggests that the victim was reckless and violent but this isn't mentioned by the cops or anyone else previously? Its possible he was resisting arrest, I bet anyone with courage would resist being dragged away from your holiday by corrupt rogue Cabo Cops knowing what will happen. Hmmm do you work in Bien Raices? Promote Real Estate? Are you really The CaboKid? Do you know The CaboKing?

Not knowing more, since you weren't on site, we can take the official report and admissions as partially factual, the victim was taken into custody and was alive and well prior to being taken into custody, he was later found killed in prison at the hands of the cops. Your hearsay is of no help, is not applicable, and is no way helpful as evidence which makes your comments suspicious in their attempt to distract from the crime--a murder. This is an admitted abuse of power and unjustified. The cops themselves have problems with their own story among themselves and have turned on each other, the timeline puts the man in custody at the time of his injuries and death. The cops took action to hide evidence and tamper with video to hide the abuse.

We seek the prosecution of the cops who did this to a innocent person in prison. We will not forget nor deny what happened, again. These cops are criminal and murderous and they have destroyed the fabric of our community. We stand together for the rule of law in all the land. We will fight to end Police corruption and abuse, aggression and violence! We will prosecute these criminal cops to the full extent possible on both sides of the border.

oxxo - 9-8-2008 at 04:08 PM

Easy GnuKid. You are jumping to a lot of conclusions without all the facts. Here is a more complete account of the incident:

From The Oregonian of Sunday, Sept. 7, 2008 -- Police beat Oregon man to death, says prosecutor
By Susan Goldsmith

SAN JOSE DEL CABO, Mexico -- The prosecutor investigating an Oregon man's Aug. 27 death in a Mexican jail says evidence gathered over the past week has left him convinced that Sam Botner was beaten to death at the hands of police officers.

And that somebody should pay for the crime.

"We are not going to permit this and not going to have our hands trembling in this investigation," prosecutor Omar Barajas said Friday during a 90-minute interview in his nondescript government office. "We will pursue this investigation until the responsible people are in prison."

Botner had traces of marijuana, cocaine and methamphetamine in his system, although the medical examiner's report did not determine when those drugs were ingested, Barajas said.

Botner's father said it was immaterial to his son's tragic end.

"It's possible he may have taken something, but that doesn't excuse them for murdering him," Nicholas Botner said.

Six police officials are in custody, including the commander of the tiny San Jose del Cabo jail. Barajas said his investigation will try to unravel who delivered the fatal blows.

Botner, a 38-year-old Yoncalla native, was vacationing in San Jose del Cabo with his wife, Kym, after returning from a commercial fishing trip to Alaska.

Postmortem photos of Botner, which have not been made public but were shown to reporters from The Oregonian, show he sustained a black eye, fractured nose and bruises on his face, shoulders, knees and arms. Although the autopsy concluded Botner died of asphyxiation, Barajas said, officials will conduct a detailed analysis of the medical examiner's findings to determine what happened in the 40 minutes between Botner's arrival at the jail and his death.

"We're investigating a homicide," Barajas said. "We want Kym Botner to know we are doing everything we can to obtain justice."

Police officials say they detained Sam Botner after he attacked Ramon del Rio, another resident of the beachfront condominiums where Botner was staying. Botner pulled a knife and slashed del Rio in the torso and neck, police said. Barajas said Del Rio slugged Botner in the face.

In his first interview with the news media, Del Rio, a Mexican national, said Saturday that he arrived home and opened his apartment door and was attacked from behind. Botner pushed him inside and began stabbing him with a knife, del Rio said. He described Botner as "crazy out of his mind on drugs."

Del Rio said he was stabbed six times, suffering one wound in the neck and several in the torso. The wounds required 25 stitches, del Rio said. Hospital records show he was kept overnight.

Del Rio said he did not fight back but did manage to push Botner out the door and close it. He went for help and found a security guard.

Del Rio called the encounter a "nightmare."

The security guard called paramedics and police. Botner was taken to a tiny two-cell jail nearby. He arrived at the jail at about 8:50 p.m.

Doctor looks at Botner
A doctor at the jail examined Botner before he was booked, which officials said was standard procedure, and concluded that he'd sustained minor facial injuries in the fight at the condominium complex. No other injuries were documented, records show.
Surveillance videotape from that evening shows that police officials struggled to get Botner into a holding cell, Barajas said.

Two video cameras in the jail's entryway recorded several police officials attempting to move him inside. But what happened in the next half-hour was not caught on tape.

Whatever happened, an inmate in one of the cells was screaming by 9:27 p.m. that Botner had stopped moving and needed help. A jail official could find no pulse. Paramedics were called, but Botner was already dead.

Jorge Castaneda, a spokesman for the jail, said Friday that Botner was never moved into a cell and died in the jail's entryway. Some other reports have conflicted with that account.

According to Castaneda, one of the detained police officials has been on the force for a year, and the others have been with the department between eight and 12 years. Castaneda said he didn't know which, if any, of the arrested officials had disciplinary records, because such records are kept elsewhere.

Botner's killing is the talk of this upscale coastal community that caters to tourists, many from the United States. News about the Yoncalla man's beating and death has been on the front pages of the local newspapers for days.

Barajas said all six of the arrested police officials are being held in the state capital of La Paz and are unable to speak with one another.

Conflicting accounts
In his interviews with the police officials, Barajas said the arrested men told contradictory statements about what occurred the night Botner died. One of the officers admitted kicking Botner, Barajas said.
Although some Mexican press accounts of Botner's death said the surveillance videotape was tampered with, Barajas said that those reports are inaccurate.

"The police station videotape was not edited or messed with in any way," he said.

Unfortunately, he added, "the video shows only part of what happened that night."

Nicholas Botner described his son as a hard-working and easy-going man who cut wood in his spare time for elderly Yoncalla residents who'd known him for years.

"He would not charge them," Botner said. "He was so generous that way."

Botner said his son was taken into custody with his wallet and $4,000 in cash in an envelope, because he didn't want to leave the money in the condo unit. When Kym Botner went to the police station the day after her husband was killed, both the wallet and money were missing, Nicholas Botner said.

"Besides killing him, they robbed him," Nicholas Botner said. "His clothing had been destroyed, too, because it had evidence."

Before his son was prepared for burial, Botner said, he viewed the body.

"They only had his face exposed. It was horrible," Botner recalled. "He was black and blue all over and had blood in his ear."

-- Susan Goldsmith; susangoldsmith@news.oregonian.com

gnukid - 9-8-2008 at 04:36 PM

wow thanks for the update... it seems all in all that the case is being handled fairly and reported well with follow through, as least to date. Scary business.

oxxo - 9-8-2008 at 04:54 PM

I think you are going to find, when all is said and done, that everyone is at fault, from perps to victim.

I think the message is very clear, don't screw with the police in Mexico. If you can't abide by that, then you probably shouldn't come here.

cabokid - 9-8-2008 at 05:00 PM

Yep , the real one and only Cabo kid, no don't know Cabo King ( should I?) and don't work for anyone except myself.

Courage you say to resist the police after assaulting another person with a knife then not doing as ordered. I say stupid or maybe crazy .

I do not judge the police and surly Mr. Botner did not deserve to die at the hands of the police. I am just stateing some facts that were told to me by an I witness. Yes it is hear say which I know will not hold up in any court . I did have some inside information that I thought I would share with the readers that I belive it is relevant to the story.
"Official Report" really ,didn't know the papers could do that kind of reporting . If It's in the paper it must be true. Having been involved in many news worthy stories and seeing them in print I often thought ,where they talking about the same story.

It appears to me people are quick to make judgement and think we should hold or opinions to ourself before we know the facts.





.



C

gnukid - 9-8-2008 at 09:36 PM

Its very sad. I am sorry for the families involved.

TMW - 9-9-2008 at 07:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by cabokid
I've seen here in the states where in this situtation the police shoot first and then ask questions. I wonder if they had to do over again if they would take a different approch


Exactly, if he had a knife and wouldn't drop it and made any kind of move toward the cops, in Bakersfield, he would be shot and killed. The cop would be placed on paid administrative leave while it is investigated. Happens several times a year around here, usually with drug addicts. We had a case last year where a cop was arresting a guy and he went for a cell phone in his pocket and the cop shot and killed him. The police board said the cop did nothing wrong.

slimshady - 9-9-2008 at 09:24 AM

He was either high on Meth or highly intoxicated on alcohol. The Police would have been justifed in shootig him in the beginning, however they were able to subdue him. He probably got the beat down at the station for resisting there or as punishment for the evenings event. Either way the cops should have been trained to subdue a violent individual high on drugs a little quicker without beating him to a pulp.
Sounds like this individual found trouble in mexico and paid for it.

DENNIS - 9-9-2008 at 09:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by slimshady
He was either high on Meth or highly intoxicated on alcohol. The Police would have been justifed in shootig him in the beginning

That's nonsense. Killing a man is not the first resort of law enforcement. They overpowered him and took him into custody. How could they lose control at that point? The lethal beating was a power trip and you don't have to be an eye witness to know that.
What's with these servers and protectors? Don't they have Taser?

oxxo - 9-9-2008 at 10:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNISWhat's with these servers and protectors? Don't they have Taser?


Uhhhh, no. They have two fists, one called 'lightening' the other called 'thunder.' None of that sanitary Taser stuff for them.

"Protect and Serve?" That's a US concept. You're in Mexico buddy. Accept it.

DENNIS - 9-9-2008 at 10:36 AM

Then maybe they should take the slogan off the door of their police cars.

oxxo - 9-9-2008 at 10:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Then maybe they should take the slogan off the door of their police cars.




Just eye candy.

[Edited on 9-9-2008 by oxxo]

slimshady - 9-9-2008 at 03:19 PM

Since he was high and a number of drugs. It is possible that he died of Custody Death Syndrome. It is occurs within 24 hours of arrest when the inmate is high on drugs, agitated, and exerting enegry(fighting). Its the high heart rate due to the drugs and resisting coupled with increase in body temperature that leads to sudden death.

Sounds like this individual paid the ultimate price for his drug use.

Mango - 9-9-2008 at 06:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo
I think the message is very clear, don't screw with the police in Mexico. If you can't abide by that, then you probably shouldn't come here.


I'd agree. I once saw a fight break out between some high school aged kids in a plaza in a large town in central Mexico. Within about 5 seconds of the trouble breaking out two large Mexican police brushed past my shoulder as they bounded across the plaza and straight into the crowd of about 50 to 70 youths.

Several youths were knocked down as the police made their way to the center of the melee... and just as quickly.. the two police emerged from the rapidly scatting crowd each with a pair of troublemakers. The police had hold of the kids by the collar of their shirt, like a mother cat would pick up a kitten, as they dragged all four of the kids across the plaza, over some benches, bushes, iron fencing etc..

The whole incident was over in less than 20 seconds, order was restored, and some bruised kids got what they came looking for.

I was impressed. :light:

slimshady - 9-12-2008 at 10:06 PM

Corruption is getting a traffic ticket in California. Pay the fine plus court costs, plus traffic school and if your unlucky a penalty assessment making a 150 dollar ticket turn into a 1000 affair.

20 bucks for bribe should be considered a gift.

bajajudy - 10-2-2008 at 11:02 AM

In today's paper

http://www.tribunadeloscabos.com.mx/newpage/index.cfm?op=por...

dtbushpilot - 10-2-2008 at 01:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajajudy
In today's paper

http://www.tribunadeloscabos.com.mx/newpage/index.cfm?op=por...


What does it say in English?....dt

Shark18 - 10-2-2008 at 01:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dtbushpilot
What does it say in English?....dt


It basically sayss those cops who killed Sam Botner are plea bargaining the charges down to lower level offenses.

dtbushpilot - 10-2-2008 at 02:04 PM

Thanks for the translation....dt

bajajudy - 10-2-2008 at 02:28 PM

It also says that the pictured are in jail, that one defendent paid a 15,000 peso bail and is out of jail.
One of these men admitted to hitting the guy but said that he did not intend to kill him.

At least that is what I think it says.

This appears to be the final verdict in this case

Cajones - 10-12-2008 at 12:44 AM

http://www.tribunadeloscabos.com.mx/newpage/index.cfm?op=por...

One man was released for lack of evidence, one was convicted of abuse of authority and paid a 15,000 peso fine, and remains "subject to further judicial process". Four others were convicted of premeditated murder, and three of those four also were convicted of abuse of authority.

In another story, which I didn't link, it says that Sam Botner was a little stoned or confused when he went up to his hotel room and mistakenly opened the wrong door, which caused the person in the room to call the police.

Phil S - 10-12-2008 at 12:36 PM

Sams father has been keeping the local (Douglas County/Yoncalla-Sutherlin-Roseburg Oregon) area newspaper informed. They have been printing articles about it.Something was mentioned that Sam stabbed the occupant of the apartment??????? Must have been some heck of a bruhagh that he would pull a knife. Paper quoted wife refused to comment on what occurred.?????