BajaNomad - Can I make a legal Claim

Can I make a legal Claim

tim40 - 9-3-2008 at 08:26 PM

I will try to hit the high notes and see if brighter minds than mine here at BajaNomad know the facts on this type of issue.

A little over a month ago my wife and I completed an 11 month lease of a home in Mexico from U.S. citizens. Although their leasing agent (a real estate company) completed an exit review and told us their were no issues with the condition of the home and we would receive our full deposit within 14 days directly from the owner it has not happened. Finally, today, I reached the owners directly and they are fabricating all kinds of pure B.S. claims as to damages to the home (not one is true nor were any raised by the agent on post lease inspection). Prior to today, all of our interactions have been with the leasing agent.

The net is the owner is refusing to return the deposit (sizeable) claiming a list of ficticious wrongs on our part. The leasing agent (Mexican real estate company) is now saying that they understand our position but really the issue is between the owner and us and they can not do much and are not responsible.

The questions:

1. Can the leasing agent legally step out of the middle and not have liability even though they have managed the relationship 100% until today?

2. Can we sue the leasing agent?

3. Because we are US citizens and the home owners are US citizens, can we sue them in small claims court (we both live in California although North and South)?

4. Any assistance from Profecta (not sure I have the Mex agency name correct)?

Until today, I was optimistic that I was going to be able to work this out as a misunderstanding as the claims were such B.S, but the person is a pathological lier.....factual ideas and guidance is greatly appreciated.

Thank you, Tim

lingililingili - 9-3-2008 at 08:45 PM

Just curious, did you get something in writing stating there were no damages?

Coatlallope - 9-3-2008 at 08:51 PM

You may one of the lucky few who can actually pursue a claim and collect. Forget about the leasing agent. He's out of it. You must sue your landlord. You should file a small claims case in the county where your landlord either resides or does business. The maximum allowed amount of the claim is $7,500. I say you are lucky because neither you nor the landlord can bring a lawyer to court, so the costs aren't too much, and you are not in Mexico.

Would you like to post the names of your landlords and the location of the property so others can beware?

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/smallclaims/findright.h...

tim40 - 9-3-2008 at 08:52 PM

No. But what we did have were 2 unrelated witnesses to the inspection and the agreement to return the total deposit. As I understand it, it is the requirement of the agent to make claim and document.

Coatlallope - 9-3-2008 at 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tim40
No. But what we did have were 2 unrelated witnesses to the inspection and the agreement to return the total deposit. As I understand it, it is the requirement of the agent to make claim and document.

In an agency agreement, the agent represents the landlord and makes the landlord legally obligated for whatever you and the agent agreed to. The landlord is the one who has the ultimate responsibility.

Besides, you cannot sue a foreign person in small claims court. The court has no jurisdiction over foreigners. Even if your served the agent, he wouldn't have to show up in court and any judgements against the agent would not be enforceable in Mexico.

fdt - 9-3-2008 at 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tim40
No.

No what? No, you have nothing in writing? Do you have rental receipts and a lease contract? If you do then yes, PROFECO can help you regardless of your citizenship (you did have an FMT at least, right?) because to lease or rent to you they must pay rental taxes and be registered.
You can also persue the small claims court in California but from seeing all these TV court shows if your "No" means no documentation you might be SOOL, don't know.

bajaguy - 9-3-2008 at 09:03 PM

Maybe get a written statement from the leasing agent????

Where are your witnesses located????

tim40 - 9-3-2008 at 09:18 PM

No, we did not get an in writing post rental clearance that nothing was damaged, missing, etc, etc.

We have FM3s, we have a written lease

Really seperate questions. 1. Sueing the landlords in the US small claims courts and 2. Sueing the leasing agent in Mexico.

Our witnesses live in Mexico and would provide written documents for use in US small claims and in person if we pursue in Mexico.

bajaguy - 9-3-2008 at 09:20 PM

I would get any written statements from witnesses, try and get written statement from leasing agent.....also any photos you might have, then take them to small claims.

I would also report them to PROFECO, as they are probably NOT complying with paying taxes and are probably not registered.

fdt - 9-3-2008 at 09:22 PM

I agree, do Profeco first. But then are you still in Mexico?

evidence

bajagrouper - 9-3-2008 at 10:17 PM

Just remember to bring the before and after photos of the house you leased to small claims court

Santiago - 9-4-2008 at 06:42 AM

I would think that a threat of turning the owners over to PROFECO would get your deposit returned. However, this is illegal (extortion) but that wouldn't stop me. By the way, is there damage now that occured after you left?

Bruce R Leech - 9-4-2008 at 07:34 AM

You can always make a clam in Mexico but I can tell you right now that your chances of collecting anything are nil. your only chance to settle anything is to talk to the folks involved.

as for filing in the USA. what part or parts of this transaction took place in the USA? and are the owners from the USA?

capt. mike - 9-4-2008 at 07:55 AM

sorry to hear this Tim but lessons learned.....

1. get it ALL in writing including the post inspection and release by owners or an authorized agent proxied in his hehalf.
2. before AND after pictures.
3. impartial 3rd party witness for affiant docs if needed in court.
4. did i say get it in writing and pictures? HUGE DEAL.
5. never sign a lease that does not provide release of encumbered deposit (or specified portions thereof) IMMEDIATELY upon end of lease period and following inspection by owner or approved agent. Waiting periods are an excuse to delay payment and plan the theft of your funds.
6. Escrow the deposits with a title company even if you have to pay the fee. if the lessor will not allow this then you can bet that his ultimate plan is to rip off the monies as most of them TRY to do.

and.........expect problems if it is mexico so if you can't accept loss of deposit then do not lease. otherwise, consider the deposit part of the rents - if you DO get it back it becomes a rebate and bonus!

David K - 9-4-2008 at 08:01 AM

Great advice from Capt. Mike...!

The home owners are scum for doing this to you... How short sighted!

I hope the next renters are mafia!

Videos......

bajaguy - 9-4-2008 at 08:06 AM

Just a thought, for all of you would be renters and those who lease........

When I was "working" and we served search warrants, we would video the whole house, outside and inside before we began our search........we would then video again after we completed our search......would also incluse shots of a clock each time, and also have a copy of that days newspaper in the videos.... better than photographs.......no complaints, no problems!!!!

rhintransit - 9-4-2008 at 08:12 AM

and there's always Judge Judy and all the daytime judge shows!

am only half kidding, there was an episode I saw recently of a case in Mexico...USA renter suing a USA owner for eviction from an Ensenada rental (due to tenants' drunken parties, etc...tenant lost).

wilderone - 9-4-2008 at 08:43 AM

For starters, you should tell us on the forum, in all caps, underlined and in bold, the name of the leasing company who will not stand up for you, who did the exit interview, who knows otherwise and will not do anything for you. They have no integrity and are very unprofessional and nobody should do business with them.

There is a check-in/check-out form used for California rentals - that is a two-page form with about 125 checkpoints for condition for every room in the house where you can make comments on existing damage, etc. When you check out, you use the same form - notating each and every thing, signed off by both parties. Use the form yourself regardless if the lessor says it's not necessary.

DENNIS - 9-4-2008 at 08:52 AM

When all else fails, pay someone to burn his house down to the ground after they plant a bunch of meth-lab equipment nearby.

CaboRon - 9-4-2008 at 09:00 AM

In a lifetime of being a renter there has been only one constant .....

I have been beat out of EVERY deposit I have ever put down for a rental .....

You wouldn't believe the BS excuses I have read , in the few cases where I was given any explaination.

When I moved out of my last stateside rental in Anaheim, I thought I was doing the final walk thru and had earlier arranged for them to take one hundred dollars for the final cleaning .... and then as I was ready to pull out and drive to Baja California, the manager said BTW they have 30 days to send the deposit. I finally got a check for $16.50 :fire:

Guess they knew that the chances of my protesting from Mexico were weak, and they were right.

Now, when the agent/owner asks for that deposit I feel as if I am just throwing that money down a hole.

CaboRon

[Edited on 9-4-2008 by CaboRon]

Dave - 9-4-2008 at 09:07 AM

When you paid the rent did you get a factura? Legal receipts with a tax id #?

If not, here's what I'd do:

Contact the rental agent and ask him/her for tax ID #'s. That you're thinking of retaining an attorney and inquiring at SAT (Mexico's IRS) to see if the landlord has paid taxes on income received.

I'll bet you get your deposit back.

Bob and Susan - 9-4-2008 at 09:08 AM

alot of landloards don't understand "wear and tear" and alot of renters don't understand "damage"

damage can be anything from holes in the walls for pictures to missing fixtures.

normal wear and tear is scratches and paint
without pictures you're screwed

whitout you telling us what the owner is actually saying you did during this year we cannot say weather you are getting screwed or not

telling us its just bs doesn't "cut it"

witness staments won't do any good in court
at least in the usa
thats can be deemed "hearsay"

where was the deposit paid USA or Mexico

if you mailed the deposit to the USA then the court stuff can be done in the USA
otherwise you're screwed
mexico...just walk away

remember in the USA you FIRST need to send the owner a letter of demand
certified mail with a signature required
if he doesnt sign that your proof you attempted to notify him
when that is not addressed you need to take him to court

we used to have rentals...pictures....

Dennis i love your style!

capt. mike - 9-4-2008 at 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
When all else fails, pay someone to burn his house down to the ground after they plant a bunch of meth-lab equipment nearby.

you really crack me up man.

hey - why is Coatlallope banned?? must have missed it.

tim40 - 9-4-2008 at 09:30 AM

Thank you for all of the input and advide.

A little more information.

1. Shame on us, but we were raised to trust people first, even in business. It has worked well most of the time in that we are happily retired in our mid-40's.

2. The red flags with the owners went up early when we moved in: a. many of the items that were in place during the pre-rental inspection were removed and locked in their storage closet (bedding, towels, microwave, TV, hammocks, shade umbrella.....etc). b. The swimming pool looked like it was part of the back lot for the filming of the next release of Swamp Thing. C. Inside of the house was so dirty and growing mold that we spent greater than 2 weeks cleaning the house (to include the use of a couple of assistants)......At the time we reported all to the real estate folks and mostly just rolled with it as we were desperate to begin some decompression....the real estate company ended up purchasing the bedding and TV and we purchased about 1.5K of items that were to be included with the home.

3. The types of things they are claiming I don't think we could have photographed.... a. House is full of bugs and ticks so they need to perform a complete fumigation (our dog has been an inside dog that receives bi-weekly baths and is treated monthly for flees and ticks....we have never seen a single flee or tick on him. b. we chipped the glass dining room table....shame on us, this small, less than 1/2 inch chip was there when we moved in, but with all of the other crap we took it as normal wear and tear. c. the pool has some black mold growing in some of the grout....this is possible as I personally spent 2 days in the pool when I moved in scrubbing it clean as possible....they claim we created this through the use of a pool cover. Here is the kicker, our lease is specific that our only responsibility to the pool was for the cost of chemicals....in our 11 month lease their pool up keep was so poor that we lost use of the pool for greater than 2 months. d. our dog scratched the bottom of the outside of the entrance door.....our dog was never on the outside to scratch the door....and to be honest our 15 year old dog is too lazy to scratch his own ass...let alone a door that he would not allow himself to be caught dead on the outside of. e. we wrecked 3 leather topped mexican style end tables....shame on us, but this must be the exact same that we had to buy table cloths for as they were in poor repair and eye sores when we moved in...... The net is the only thing we paid specific attention to on the pre-move-in inspection where those items listed on the inventory.....

Now, I repeat, we left the home in much better condition that we rented it in....but for discussion purposes even if we could be blamed for 100% of the above it does not even come close to 25% of the deposit.

We do have emails that we shared back and forth at the beginning and towards the end with the leasing agent that will assist us with our case. Our plan as of now is to use our Mexican attorney to write the leasing company a letter of demand, assist with the appropriate notification of Profecta, file near immediately in small claims court as we are all CA residents.....and then if something bad should happen to the home, we have no idea how it happened.

tim40 - 9-4-2008 at 09:39 AM

Bob and Susan, we definitely appreciate the inputs. We have made a great deal of money over the years on rentals...we understand wear and tear and the like. In fact our Manhattan Beach home was rented out while we were in Mexico.....lets see, broken piano bench leg, broken dresser, a few picture holes in the wall, stain on one of the sofas, and such a thick layer of dust and dog hair we hired two cleaning folks that spent 12 manhours cleaning a 1500 sq ft home.....total cost to the renters deposit 0, zip, nada....wear and tear in our liberal view........ In Mex we broke nothing and left the house spotless....paid for 2.5 days of deep cleaning so it would be left better than received.....

We are not certain at this minute how we will position our case.... It is too simple to us.....but I also know the 'legal' system is not simple... We believe with the evidence
we do have and the items the list on the inventory not being of issue, we should be fine after A MAJOR HEADACHE!

Bruce R Leech - 9-4-2008 at 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tim40
Thank you for all of the input and advide.

A little more information.

1. Shame on us, but we were raised to trust people first, even in business. It has worked well most of the time in that we are happily retired in our mid-40's.

2. The red flags with the owners went up early when we moved in: a. many of the items that were in place during the pre-rental inspection were removed and locked in their storage closet (bedding, towels, microwave, TV, hammocks, shade umbrella.....etc). b. The swimming pool looked like it was part of the back lot for the filming of the next release of Swamp Thing. C. Inside of the house was so dirty and growing mold that we spent greater than 2 weeks cleaning the house (to include the use of a couple of assistants)......At the time we reported all to the real estate folks and mostly just rolled with it as we were desperate to begin some decompression....the real estate company ended up purchasing the bedding and TV and we purchased about 1.5K of items that were to be included with the home.

3. The types of things they are claiming I don't think we could have photographed.... a. House is full of bugs and ticks so they need to perform a complete fumigation (our dog has been an inside dog that receives bi-weekly baths and is treated monthly for flees and ticks....we have never seen a single flee or tick on him. b. we chipped the glass dining room table....shame on us, this small, less than 1/2 inch chip was there when we moved in, but with all of the other crap we took it as normal wear and tear. c. the pool has some black mold growing in some of the grout....this is possible as I personally spent 2 days in the pool when I moved in scrubbing it clean as possible....they claim we created this through the use of a pool cover. Here is the kicker, our lease is specific that our only responsibility to the pool was for the cost of chemicals....in our 11 month lease their pool up keep was so poor that we lost use of the pool for greater than 2 months. d. our dog scratched the bottom of the outside of the entrance door.....our dog was never on the outside to scratch the door....and to be honest our 15 year old dog is too lazy to scratch his own burro...let alone a door that he would not allow himself to be caught dead on the outside of. e. we wrecked 3 leather topped mexican style end tables....shame on us, but this must be the exact same that we had to buy table cloths for as they were in poor repair and eye sores when we moved in...... The net is the only thing we paid specific attention to on the pre-move-in inspection where those items listed on the inventory.....

Now, I repeat, we left the home in much better condition that we rented it in....but for discussion purposes even if we could be blamed for 100% of the above it does not even come close to 25% of the deposit.

We do have emails that we shared back and forth at the beginning and towards the end with the leasing agent that will assist us with our case. Our plan as of now is to use our Mexican attorney to write the leasing company a letter of demand, assist with the appropriate notification of Profecta, file near immediately in small claims court as we are all CA residents.....and then if something bad should happen to the home, we have no idea how it happened.

you are not going to get anything out of these folks :no:

DENNIS - 9-4-2008 at 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
hey - why is Coatlallope banned?? must have missed it.

Wasn't aware of it. She was posting on this thread last night sounding very much the lawyer that she is. I'm keeping a safe and prudent distance.

Santiago - 9-4-2008 at 10:50 AM

I have a friend who often rents and he does not pay the last month's rent when he thinks the landlord is going to get stoopid. He claims he gets a prompt and reasonable walk-thru.

tim40 - 9-4-2008 at 11:13 AM

Believe we will have much more success that you some might think. I was delighted to confirm this morning that they can be brought to small claims court in California. I have emails that convey the post inspection with the leasing agent. It does indeed appear the government is interested in the tax paying hx of the agency and the owners for this property...... It may take months, but I am retired and sometimes f'heads need to be dealt with even when time and energy would make it easier to walk forward. Stay tuned and thank you all for the advice. I will share details at the appropriate time as so others can stay clear.

Bob and Susan - 9-4-2008 at 11:37 AM

so...now... will you be able to "serve" them in california???

broken piano bench leg... NOT normal you should have charged
broken dresser... NOT normal you should have charged
a few picture holes in the wall..normal (only drywall)
stain on one of the sofas... NOT normal you should have charged
such a thick layer of dust ...normal
dog hair... normal ONLY if you allowed pets

good luck...we're watching for the outcome

This is EXACTLY what I would do (NFM)

flyfishinPam - 9-4-2008 at 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
When you paid the rent did you get a factura? Legal receipts with a tax id #?

If not, here's what I'd do:

Contact the rental agent and ask him/her for tax ID #'s. That you're thinking of retaining an attorney and inquiring at SAT (Mexico's IRS) to see if the landlord has paid taxes on income received.

I'll bet you get your deposit back.

flyfishinPam - 9-4-2008 at 11:46 AM

Tim follow Dave's instructions go to Hacienda with this whey would be interested, also go to Migracion, the owners stand to lose everything if they're not 100% legal. You WILL get your deposit back and you WILL save the time, expense and stress of having to sue them wherever you end up sueing them. They want a fight, stand up for yourself and fight.

Quote:

Originally posted by tim40
Believe we will have much more success that you some might think. I was delighted to confirm this morning that they can be brought to small claims court in California. I have emails that convey the post inspection with the leasing agent. It does indeed appear the government is interested in the tax paying hx of the agency and the owners for this property...... It may take months, but I am retired and sometimes f'heads need to be dealt with even when time and energy would make it easier to walk forward. Stay tuned and thank you all for the advice. I will share details at the appropriate time as so others can stay clear.

richard nauman - 9-4-2008 at 12:08 PM

I was involved with a similar situation in La Paz with a short term rental. I mentioned Profeco to the property manager and my deposit was promptly returned.
Profeco in La Paz

In addition ot Hacienda, I think that the IRS might be interested in unreported income from rental properties in Mexico.

Good Luck!

wilderone - 9-4-2008 at 02:13 PM

Be sure to demand punitive damages (twice the amount of the deposit in punitive damages for bad faith retention of the security deposit). Also, if you're going to sue the owners in California your demand letter should be to them, not the leasing company (or both of them), but a prerequisite to suit is the demand letter. They will have to prove the expenses that they say they incurred (for instance, the fumigation, the price of the tables, minus depreciation for used furniture). You might cover yourself, and get some price estimates for the tables yourself. You have a good case. good luck.

Landlord must return the security deposit within three weeks of your vacating the premises. If the landlord deducts any money, Landlord must provide an itemized statement of charges within 3 weeks, and return any remaining unused balance of the deposit. Landlord can only withhold amounts necessary to pay for (1) repairing damages caused by the tenant (exclusive or ordinary wear and tear); (2) Paying overdue rent;
(3) Cleaning if necessary; and (4) Replacing personal property of the landlord (such as furniture) if the rental lease agreement allows it.
b. Civil Code Section 1950.5 (l): A judge can award up to twice the amount of the deposit in punitive damages for bad faith retention of the security deposit, in addition to what was actually withheld.

woody with a view - 9-4-2008 at 03:25 PM

doesn't the landlord have to pay interest equal to a passbook savings account on all security deposits?

Bob and Susan - 9-4-2008 at 04:22 PM

nope

and usually no double the damages

don't try

tim40 - 12-5-2008 at 07:32 PM

PROMISED UPDATE:

Starting with the end: We won our case at Superios Court Small Claims Court here in california.

What an ordeal.....because we are the type that go above and beyond to treat people, all people, with honor, honesty, and respect the 150 or so hours working on this case was worth it from a 'mental' point of view. The entire process drove home why so many will work, or at least attempt, outside the legal process. Trying to get straight answers, having paperwork lost, filing, a different "official" answer from almost every person we spoke to, on and on and on.

Still can not convey to you for certain that we "legally" had the ability to win this case in US courts.....could NEVER get this answer at any cost, and we did pay 3 different 'expert' attornies.

We believe we won because we had our ducks in a row. We had facts in triplicate that supported our case and showed how the owners were lying through their teeth.

At conclusion, we are not certain what we would have done differently to prevent this major league hassle. The only thing that possibly would have prevented the attempt from the owners would have been taking before and after videos, copied them, and then sent them immediately to the owners so they would think twice.

We are now going after their Mexican Real Estate company. We are filing with the Tax authorities and Profeca and then will be using some of the money we recovered to run an add in the gringo paper in the area listing purely the unquestioned facts or our experience. Companies like this, be them in Mexico, Manhattan, or Lisbon, damage the reputation of the other 99 out of a 100 wonderful honest businesses.

woody with a view - 12-5-2008 at 08:26 PM

glad to hear you're sleeping better. when can you give the details (names, etc...) here?

Paladin - 12-5-2008 at 09:08 PM

Tim

Congratulations on victory. Too many people are afraid of the "system" and therefore will not fight back.

I'm not an attorney but I love a good legal fight. Its like the last frontier.

Two more court fights and the California Bar Association will make me an honorary member.

Take no prisoners.

BajaNuts - 12-5-2008 at 10:26 PM

Congrats on the good outcome!

just FYI,
as far as I know ( and I will confirm this again with my parents who have been landlords for 40 years and members of Washington State Landlords Association)...
It is illegal for a landlord to ask for first, last, AND deposit in WA state. A landlord can ask for 2 out of 3 of these security deposits. I'm going to email Mom right now about something else so I'll include this question.

If the rent on a place is $2000 ( not an uncommon amount), the tenant could face coming up with $6K to get into a place if they have to come up with all 3!

Don't know about other states....

and now for the important question!!!

thebajarunner - 12-6-2008 at 08:55 AM

Good job- so far.
My question--- have you collected?
Getting a small claims judgement in our glorious state of Calif. is often a looooooong way from visiting the pay window.
I have several small claims judgements that I have won, but never been able to collect.

Hope you are successful, I feel your pain.

We operated a property management company, as an adjunct to our development company, for many years, and we always returned deposits, unless there was compelling reasons not to do so.

BajaNuts - 12-6-2008 at 05:44 PM

If the person you have won judgement against has any property, file a lien right away, even if you think you'll get the money out of them without further hassles. Liens on property are paid out in an order based on who filed their lien first. If they are of shady moral character, it is possible that more than one person would be after them.

Once the lien is in place, and as long as you don't need the money right away, just sit and wait. When they go to sell the property they will have a nice :fire:

surprise waiting from the title search company. The lien will have to be taken care of (meaning you get your money and remove the lien) before the property can be sold. Option B is to send them a copy of the lien, so they know about it and maybe they'll pay you sooner to get rid of it.

You may have to get creative as to finding their property. Aside from their house, do they own business property, vacation property, vacant lot somewhere? You may have to do some digging at the county courthouse.

If they don't have any property, persistance (in a non-threatening way) works. bajarunner probably has more trouble collecting from renter-type people as they don't have big items you can lien.

Good luck, keep us posted.

All well and good, except......

thebajarunner - 12-6-2008 at 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNuts
If the person you have won judgement against has any property, file a lien right away, even if you think you'll get the money out of them without further hassles. Liens on property are paid out in an order based on who filed their lien first. If they are of shady moral character, it is possible that more than one person would be after them.

Once the lien is in place, and as long as you don't need the money right away, just sit and wait. When they go to sell the property they will have a nice :fire:

This is all accurate info.
The trouble is.....
you cannot 'force' the sale of the property you have liened.
as long as they hold the property, you only hold paper.
I have seen liens sit in place for a verrrrrrrry looooooong time!

My judgements that I referenced were from flaky clients in the days that I had a public accounting practice,
never collected a single one,
alas...

BajaNuts - 12-6-2008 at 06:43 PM

Yes, bajarunner, you are quite correct in that the lien can sit for a looong time. Hopefully Tim40 picked up on the "if you don't need the money right away..." sentance.

Option B sometime consists of literally camping on their doorstep, but it takes the right personality to be able to do that. We are still trying to recover 6K from a bad real estate deal from someone in Canada, and they have nothing to go after.
I feel your pain...

capt. mike - 12-7-2008 at 12:42 PM

i agree judgments can be problematic and/or hard to collect.

i have only dealt with one type of lien, contractor liens on real property under AZ law.
a form of mechanics lien related to fair trade laws and the UCC rules.
i placed a lien on a land parcel under development because the owner reneged on his contract obligation to pay me the final amount due.

to start the process i had to have a 20 day prelim notice on file within 20 days of having started the job (AZ law) - which i did as part of routine docs prep when signing agreements.

i later "filed" the formal lien and claim against the owner and land, after he became a DEADBEAT. :mad:

i then "sued" to foreclose on the lien which totally peed off his lender who had a 1st postition deed of trust over the land as a function of his interim construction loans.

i won the suit because he was forced to settle and pay me plus my atty's fees en toto! had he not have paid the bank would have had to pay me or i might have taken the project at a fraction of its worth. in essence the bank forced his hand to protect their position.

that scenario might not relate to your issues but in my case collection turned out to be easy. oh... and the shady developer has since gone bankrupt and is being chased by a lot of VERY teed off people who are in the habit of doing not so nice things to people who cross them!! :lol:

if i was him i'd turn myself in and beg for police protection.

Problem solver!!!!!!

Bronco - 12-7-2008 at 02:07 PM

Jaime Palafox Toscano!!!!!! He is an abogado and has helped me. No nonsense, if you care to meet him contact me and I will make the call. He is in Ensenada and has a reputation for getting folks attention, as needed.

thebajarunner - 12-7-2008 at 06:04 PM

Mike
You are smarter than most California contractors.
The lien law is very specific,
and most contractors manage to screw up the works somewhere in the process.

Jaime Palafox???
We raced SCORE and NORRA with Jaime in the good old days,
Same guy, I presume?

wilderone - 12-10-2008 at 02:05 PM

Although you got a judgment, you need to ask them for the money before you file a lien or ask the Sheriff to go get it for you. If they have a business office, the Sheriff will go right in and tap the till. If either are salaried, you can garnish their wages. Depending on their response to your request for the judgment sum, you might be able to work out a payment schedule. If all looks dismal, you could negotiate a settlement for less than the judgment.

tim40 - 1-7-2009 at 12:08 PM

Sorry, for the delay in response. We did receive 100% of what was owed. They were one day late in the agreed upon payment date but they called two days prior to let me know it would be the case.

Who really knows why people act and perform as we do. I can tell you that after the court judgement was handed down I met immediately afterwards and made it clear that I would show zero tolerance should I have to go after them to collect the money (I used some very specific 'unprofessional' words). My wife tells me I was too threatening....but she too was as happy as I was when the deposited check cleared without issue.

We will be returning to Mexico in a few weeks to execute phase 2 of this issue with the leasing agent/company. We learned through disclosure as part of the hearing that these folks were a big part of the problem and now that I have a fresh budget to spend on making life hard on them.....I will.

Out of 30 years of real estate deals (buy, sell, lease, rent....etc) in Mexico this is only the second time we have had issue. The first was with another 'member' of this board on who represents himself as a realitor in La Paz who screwed us out of a piece of property that we had a contract on. The funny part is he probably believes he got away with it.....

comitan - 1-7-2009 at 12:34 PM

He got away with it unless you want to pursue it in Australia. :smug:

tim40 - 1-7-2009 at 06:53 PM

I can only hope we are talking about the same piece of slime Comitan and the wonderful residents of La Paz are rid of him....but, I repeat, it matters not where he went....Mexico utilizes 'leans and holds' that act much like judgements here in the states....except at times they are located/executed without prior awareness.

[Edited on 1-8-2009 by tim40]

BajaNuts - 1-7-2009 at 09:59 PM

We're very happy to hear you are victorious in phase 1!

It's good to hear that people who have been mucked about can get some recourse.

Feliz Ano Nuevo!