BajaNomad - Salmon in Baja?

Salmon in Baja?

Gypsy Jan - 9-5-2008 at 02:39 PM

This is probably a duh! question, but two of our favorite restaurants in Rosarito, Tapanco and La Estancia, serve mesquite grilled salmon.

They both proclaim that they are steakhouses, and offer a huge menu with several red meat, poultry and traditional Mexican entrees available, along with other more common seafood offerings; sea bass, shrimp and squid served in various styles of preparation.

But, I always gravitate back to the mesquite grilled salmon fillet, delivered perfectly moist, with a crispy skin underlining for the perfect crunch.

So, here comes the duh! question. The salmon must come from U.S. suppliers, right? There ain't no salmon runs in Baja, yes?

BTW (by the way), both restaurants serve excellent house made tartar sauce, but it's gone before I've eaten half of my serving. Clemente Jacques Cesar Salad bottled dressing (made in Mexico), is an excellent addition to the next day leftovers.

Cardon Man - 9-5-2008 at 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan

So, here comes the duh! question. The salmon must come from U.S. suppliers, right? There ain't no salmon runs in Baja, yes?

No, there are no salmon runs in Baja. That is to say, there are no salmon bearing streams on the peninsula. However, salmon are caught in Baja's nothernmost Pacific waters from time to time.

DanO - 9-5-2008 at 03:07 PM

They may be getting it from Costco. Last year we spent a night at Adobe Guadalupe and had a fantastic salmon dinner. The owner said he gets it from Costco in Ensenada.

Cardon Man - 9-5-2008 at 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DanO
They may be getting it from Costco. Last year we spent a night at Adobe Guadalupe and had a fantastic salmon dinner. The owner said he gets it from Costco in Ensenada.

Is that costco salmon farm raised? In my opinion, there is no comparison between farm raised and wild salmon.

bajabound2005 - 9-5-2008 at 03:10 PM

Costco and Walmart both carry salmon.

elizabeth - 9-5-2008 at 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cardon Man

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan

So, here comes the duh! question. The salmon must come from U.S. suppliers, right? There ain't no salmon runs in Baja, yes?

No, there are no salmon runs in Baja. That is to say, there are no salmon bearing streams on the peninsula. However, salmon are caught in Baja's nothernmost Pacific waters from time to time.

Not now, but historically, there is evidence of salmon runs as far south as Rio Santo Domingo.

Cardon Man - 9-5-2008 at 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elizabeth
[Not now, but historically, there is evidence of salmon runs as far south as Rio Santo Domingo.

That is amazing isn't it! I've heard that fact but what exactly is meant by 'historically'? 100 years ago....5,000 years ago? I do know that So. Cal. had salmon and steelhead not so long ago.

LancairDriver - 9-5-2008 at 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cardon Man

Quote:

Originally posted by DanO
They may be getting it from Costco. Last year we spent a night at Adobe Guadalupe and had a fantastic salmon dinner. The owner said he gets it from Costco in Ensenada.

Is that costco salmon farm raised? In my opinion, there is no comparison between farm raised and wild salmon.

Costco has both farm raised and Sockeye Salmon from Alaska. No comparison- go for the Sockeye.

rhintransit - 9-5-2008 at 03:41 PM

City Club, too. no idea re wild/farmed import. but good and a nice change occasionally.

larry - 9-5-2008 at 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LancairDriver

Quote:

Originally posted by Cardon Man

Quote:

Originally posted by DanO
They may be getting it from Costco. Last year we spent a night at Adobe Guadalupe and had a fantastic salmon dinner. The owner said he gets it from Costco in Ensenada.

Is that costco salmon farm raised? In my opinion, there is no comparison between farm raised and wild salmon.

Costco has both farm raised and Sockeye Salmon from Alaska. No comparison- go for the Sockeye.

Here in Northern California, I have only seen farm raised salmon at Costco--and it is not very good. But wild salmon at other stores is now in the $15-25 per pound range.

elizabeth - 9-5-2008 at 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cardon Man

Quote:

Originally posted by elizabeth
[Not now, but historically, there is evidence of salmon runs as far south as Rio Santo Domingo.

That is amazing isn't it! I've heard that fact but what exactly is meant by 'historically'? 100 years ago....5,000 years ago? I do know that So. Cal. had salmon and steelhead not so long ago.

I think we're talking closer to within 100 years, but I'm just guessing that and remembering from maps I've seen in a salmon slide show...I'll ask my salmon expert friend and get back!

CaboRon - 9-5-2008 at 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rhintransit
City Club, too. no idea re wild/farmed import. but good and a nice change occasionally.

Farm raised has far less of the Omega-3 fatty acids which are so beneficial for your cardiac health.

CaboRon

woody with a view - 9-5-2008 at 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

Quote:

Originally posted by rhintransit
City Club, too. no idea re wild/farmed import. but good and a nice change occasionally.

Farm raised has far less of the Omega-3 fatty acids which are so beneficial for your cardiac health.

CaboRon

BUT, don't discount the benefits of "COLOR ADDED". :barf:

Pepsi or Coke?

Gypsy Jan - 9-5-2008 at 06:03 PM

If you were blindfolded and asked to choose which plate was wild salmon and which was the farm raised, how would you tell the difference? Please factor in the skill of the chef with his preparation and presentation.

Also, let's discuss sushi/sashimi serving quality/taste differences, as well,

I am sincerely interested in this debate and I have had both versions and can't remember anything outstanding between the two - I just love good salmon, raw and properly cooked.

woody with a view - 9-5-2008 at 06:35 PM

wait! let's say you go to the supermarket (or where ever you get salmon) and on the package of one side of salmon it says, "farm raised (hopefully not in china/vietnam/etc...), color added". this package cost $5/pound.

over there you see a similar looking package that says on the label, "wild caught, product of canada/usa" and it cost $10-$15/pound.

which do you reach for? i have tried them both and can't/don't really remember any difference but i can imagine that the wild caught spring run salmon it far superior to the crap they sell by the mega-ton and claim it is really salmon.

the problem becomes, where does it end? wild caught chicken, beef? there are trade off to every decision you make. i am by no means trying to say i'm a health nut, heh-heh, yeah, right.

check this out and cringe..........

:barf:

http://www.purezing.com/living/food_articles/living_articles...

Pescador - 9-5-2008 at 07:47 PM

True salmon lovers, who catch it straight out of the stream or ocean, can truly tell a difference between wild and farm raised, and can easily tell the difference between King, Chinook, Pink, and Coho. Farm raised salmon comes in real close to Chum Salmon (which is also known as dog salmon)

To imply otherwise would be the same as saying you could not tell the difference between hamburger and Filet Mignon.

Udo - 9-5-2008 at 08:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pescador

Quote:
True salmon lovers, who catch it straight out of the stream or ocean, can truly tell a difference between wild and farm raised, and can easily tell the difference between King, Chinook, Pink, and Coho.

Quote:
I am wholeheartedly agree with pescador on fresh vs. farm raised salmon. Fresh caught stays pink (a strong pink) when cooked. The color fades from the farmed when cooked. I have several Alaska salmon purveyors I use in my catering. I have dibs when there is a run. Plus, I made several more friends when I was up there in June. Try this: get your favorite pork dry rub (one that includes brown sugar-U2U me & I'll forward my all-time favorite, it's got a lot of ingredients but worth the time, plus you can get all the items in Baja) and rub it on the fresh fish about two hours before cooking, get a pan hot to about 400 degrees, add a dab of peanut oil, fry the fish for about two minutes on one side and about 1-1/2 on the other...YUMMO!
Farm raised salmon comes in real close to Chum Salmon (which is also known as dog salmon)

To imply otherwise would be the same as saying you could not tell the difference between hamburger and Filet Mignon.

Skipjack Joe - 9-5-2008 at 08:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LancairDriver
... No comparison- go for the Sockeye.

We do:

Skipjack Joe - 9-5-2008 at 08:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pescador
Farm raised salmon comes in real close to Chum Salmon (which is also known as dog salmon)

We had chum salmon only once.

It was like that post you made years ago on the old amigos board, Jim. Prepare the fish on a slab of wood and when it's ready throw away the fish and eat the wood.

Thanks Pescador
Sharksbaja - 9-5-2008 at 09:17 PM

I concur, there is a big diff between aquacultured salmon and wild. Pescador summed it up, some species of salmon are inferior in taste, appearance, texture and fish oil content.

Since large wholesalers need to move product rapidly, especially seafood it only makes economic sense to offer fish that is reasonably priced. They just can't move as much salmon priced as high as it is these days.

My anger is directed at the Canadian govt for allowing unrestricted salmon farming in the inside passage.

It's been discovered that Atlantic salmon bring sea lice to not only the adjacent waters but also are wreakinh havoc on laboratory-reared oyster spawn.

Although new filtration systems are addressing the problem, two years from today we will experience a shortage of adult oysters due to this problem.

You are probably wondering how sea lice affect oysters. They secrete an enzyme that is fatal to emerging oyster larvae. The problem has been known by researchers for years tho only more recently has it become of epidemic proportions.

The Canadian govt endorses the Norwegian concerns and has not addressed the situation. Only because the oyster farmers instituted measures themselves has acion been taken to save future generations of oysters.

Quote:

If you were blindfolded and asked to choose which plate was wild salmon and which was the farm raised, how would you tell the difference? Please factor in the skill of the chef with his preparation and presentation.

Well, depending on the chef, and plenty can ruin a wild chinook w/o trying.

Now as far as a blind taste test goes, I would have to have choices prepared exactly the same and frankly I haven't the resources here to guage them all in advance.

Sockeye, chum, coho have imo a flat taste comparatively speaking. If you look at the tissue it's readily obvious which salmon contains more fatty oils.

I have tried farmed salmon, not bad the way I do it but still not the same animal. Pacific and Atlantic species are not the same.

Moving on;

Quote:

Also, let's discuss sushi/sashimi serving quality/taste differences, as well,

Since I found out that all that "fresh" sushi is "previously" frozen, I lost my appetite for it.

Didn't you ever wonder how they kept their uni fresh?

Fresh tuna ahi or lox/raw salmon is great. I just like knowing my/your knife put it on the table.

Never ask a seafood snob what color he likes his salmon!

Don Alley - 9-5-2008 at 09:23 PM

We caught a few silver salmon in the 1960s on a party boat out of Oxnard. They seemed to have schooled up off the Santa Clara River there. Biologist Milton Love (UCSB) puts their southernmost range to Punta Camalu in Baja California. But they are uncommon south of Monterrey, where the southernmost spawning stream is.

mtgoat666 - 9-5-2008 at 09:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by woody in ob

which do you reach for? i have tried them both and can't/don't really remember any difference

Texture of wild vs farm is the first give away. Odd color of farm raised is second clue. Taste is noticably different.

My mistake
Sharksbaja - 9-6-2008 at 12:30 AM

Oops sorry, I do like sockeye , that should have read "pink salmon" in my last post. (sigh) Anyhoo, the reddest salmon tissue yields the best flavor imo.
Some Kings(chinook) become mottled with white areas of tissue.

Very interesting and while some claim this not-so-common occurance makes for a better tasting fish, I would debate that.

Carotenoids are the responsible factor determining a fishes tissue coloration tho genetics play a role.

The tissue as noted is induced in farmed salmon. Nobody would eat gray salmon.
---------
I am intrigued by the range south that salmon sometimes visit. As dorado and billfish sometimes stray into the PNW, one can assume that salmon can be found in odd regions as well occasionally.

It's a curious scenario. I can't image how salmon could fare in the lower latitudes where river water temperature runs considerably higher. Perhaps that was their demise in Mexico so many years ago.

-------------
The talk about sush in restaurants is something many folks just assume is a wholesome product. Maybe it is. It surely won't kill you immediately.
I guess I've lost faith in the processors to deliver something other than preserved or treated foodstuffs. If you dig deep into that realm you may be quite suprised

MSG in sushi?

So it gets a little complicated. People are getting or have been, hooked on foods containing MSG. Other ingedients include benzoates, sorbitol, other chemicals as well that help maintain the product.

You should be the judge. Just thought you should know.
MSG

whew....

DENNIS - 9-6-2008 at 07:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Don Alley
We caught a few silver salmon in the 1960s on a party boat out of Oxnard. They seemed to have schooled up off the Santa Clara River there. Biologist Milton Love (UCSB) puts their southernmost range to Punta Camalu in Baja California. But they are uncommon south of Monterrey, where the southernmost spawning stream is.

I didn't want to mention what I wasn't sure I had remembered but, I have heard of the rare occurance of salmon being caught in local waters. I'll talk with Ivan Villarino today and see what he knows.

David K - 9-6-2008 at 08:39 AM

Guys, if you have a fish question... check out Gene Kira's 'MexFish.com' site... He has a list of all fish found off Baja, with photos...

Under Chinook Salmon:

Chinook Salmon, Oncorhynchus tshawytscha: Baja California salmon catch report, from Castro's Camp, at Erendira, south of Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico, by Chris Kugel: "I just got back today from Castro's Camp...Oscar Barrios who is the skipper of the Don Castro, caught the first king salmon of the season...The man on the right, holding the salmon, is Oscar Barrios...There is no real season for salmon, that I know of, but during the winter and up to and through April, salmon are caught at Castro's. I would have to guess on the number, but from what I have seen and what the skippers tell me, about two dozen fish are caught during a season "winter." I caught one last year, throwing a Krocodile at breaking white seabass. It was about the same size as the one pictured, 10 to 12 pounds. I caught that fish in Feb. of 2004. The salmon in the picture and the one I caught where the same, and all the ones I have seen caught at Castro's looked the same. I am not a salmon expert, but was told that these fish are kings.

Chinook Salmon, Oncorhynchus tshawytscha: Cutter Clotfelter with a salmon caught midsummer 1998, at San Quintin, Baja California, Mexico halfway between the punta and Isla San Martin. Clotfelter said the rare salmon hit a trolled Rapala, on a windy day while the boat was enroute to the island. Photo courtesy Gregg Stapp.

Santiago - 9-6-2008 at 08:41 AM

Didn't someone post a picture of a salmon being caught off Cabo a few years ago? Locals couldn't identify it. Same year as the Dorado caught in Alaska.

Don Alley - 9-6-2008 at 09:05 AM

In the 1960s, Channel Islands Sportshing in Oxnard (CISCO) added a new sportfishing boat that came south from, if I remember correctly, Westport Oregon. I can't remember the boats name but I think the Captain was named Howard Hood. For a while he specifically targeted salmon off Ventura, instructing anglers in the "mooching" technique used up north, and for a few weeks (memory fails me here) salmon were caught in modest numbers but with regularity. The captain suggested that perhaps that was not a fluke, it just took an effort to target these fish with the right techniques n the right place.

However, the fishery does not seem to have been sustained-although I don't closely follow fishing in that area I have heard nothing of salmon catches on the message boards.

Waters off northern Baja are cold, often colder than water farther north, and would be suitable for feeding salmon, but they would have to journey far to the north at spawning time to reproduce. Although I have read here on BN about some kind of stream flowing into the ocean near the Trump Resort?

DENNIS - 9-6-2008 at 09:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Don Alley
Although I have read here on BN about some kind of stream flowing into the ocean near the Trump Resort?

They stock that one with brown trout. yummy

Udo - 9-6-2008 at 10:27 AM

Isn't the farm that is close to the TRUMP resort also close to the two sewage effluents coming out of Tijuana?

vacaenbaja - 9-6-2008 at 11:54 AM

The confluence of the Rio Orin and the Rio Cacamucho? That would be the Donalds resort at "Cerote City" I believe.

jeans - 9-6-2008 at 12:29 PM

Ok...so I went to the freezer and got out the bag of frozen Costco Salmon we picked up last week. The Bar-B-Qued fillets, marinated in lemon pepper, olive oil & various spices were muy delisioso...firm & flavorful (and good cold the next morning) The bag says on the front
ATLANTIC SALMON with 4% salt and water solution.

On the back, in much smaller print:
Ingredients:
Farm-raised Atlantic Salmon. Water, Salt color added.
Product of Chile.

Salmon/tuna trivia: My mom says that when canned tuna was first introduced, the buying public, accustomed to pink canned salmon, were skeptical. Advertisers claimed their tuna was "guaranteed not to turn pink in the can"

Disclaimer: I have no idea if that story is true

Cypress - 9-6-2008 at 12:50 PM

Baja Salmon? 'Bout like finding a needle in a haystack. Jeez, the resident fish are nearly gone, might as well fish for Salmon. I'd be looking a tad futher north for Salmon. Alaska maybe?

Sharksbaja - 9-6-2008 at 01:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jeans
Ok...so I went to the freezer and got out the bag of frozen Costco Salmon we picked up last week. The Bar-B-Qued fillets, marinated in lemon pepper, olive oil & various spices were muy delisioso...firm & flavorful (and good cold the next morning) The bag says on the front
ATLANTIC SALMON with 4% salt and water solution.

On the back, in much smaller print:
Ingredients:
Farm-raised Atlantic Salmon. Water, Salt color added.
Product of Chile.

and.......

Udo - 9-6-2008 at 01:05 PM

SEE!

jeans - 9-6-2008 at 01:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja

Quote:
Originally posted by jeans
Ok...so I went to the freezer and got out the bag of frozen Costco Salmon we picked up last week. The Bar-B-Qued fillets, marinated in lemon pepper, olive oil & various spices were muy delisioso...firm & flavorful (and good cold the next morning) The bag says on the front
ATLANTIC SALMON with 4% salt and water solution.

On the back, in much smaller print:
Ingredients:
Farm-raised Atlantic Salmon. Water, Salt color added.
Product of Chile.

and.......

nothing else....

Just stating the facts about Costco salmon...As I commented...it was delicious...I will buy it again, but the "Product of Chile" surprised me.

DENNIS - 9-6-2008 at 03:01 PM

There is a ton of info on farmed salmon on Google. Here's just one:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/01/040109072244.ht...

Von - 9-6-2008 at 03:10 PM

When I went backpacking a few years ago in San Pedro martir up in the mountains I cought rainbow trout and saw turtoise in the streams up there it was amazing.

Never did see any Salmon runs mmmmmmm

Sharksbaja - 9-6-2008 at 03:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jeans

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja

Quote:
Originally posted by jeans
Ok...so I went to the freezer and got out the bag of frozen Costco Salmon we picked up last week. The Bar-B-Qued fillets, marinated in lemon pepper, olive oil & various spices were muy delisioso...firm & flavorful (and good cold the next morning) The bag says on the front
ATLANTIC SALMON with 4% salt and water solution.

On the back, in much smaller print:
Ingredients:
Farm-raised Atlantic Salmon. Water, Salt color added.
Product of Chile.

and.......

nothing else....

Just stating the facts about Costco salmon...As I commented...it was delicious...I will buy it again, but the "Product of Chile" surprised me.

Okey doke, just curious.

Q: Do you know what a Patagonian toothfish is?

A: Chilean seabass

Please do not buy this fish.

Udo - 9-6-2008 at 03:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja

Quote:
Originally posted by jeans
Ok...so I went to the freezer and got out the bag of frozen Costco Salmon we picked up last week. The Bar-B-Qued fillets, marinated in lemon pepper, olive oil & various spices were muy delisioso...firm & flavorful (and good cold the next morning) The bag says on the front
ATLANTIC SALMON with 4% salt and water solution.

On the back, in much smaller print:
Ingredients:
Farm-raised Atlantic Salmon. Water, Salt color added.
Product of Chile.

and.......

Quote:
The only sea bass I buy any more I usualy get at the Ensenada fish market. It is commonly known as MERO. Muy Muy bueno. Have the fish monger cut out the center bone so you end up with four loins. Leave the skins on. Once home, cut out the skins and marinate them for 6 hours in lime juice and chipotle pepper sauce. Add to 375 degree oil for a few seconds and you have deep fried seafood chicharrones. Do the same with freshly shucked abalone. After the first taste you won't care what they cost!

UDO

Hook - 9-6-2008 at 07:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Santiago
Didn't someone post a picture of a salmon being caught off Cabo a few years ago? Locals couldn't identify it. Same year as the Dorado caught in Alaska.

I clearly remember the story in Western Outdoor News about a guy who caught a salmon off Cabo San Lucas. I think he was on a long range boat out of SD. Seems to me it was about 10 years ago, or so.

Pink Salmon
Skipjack Joe - 9-6-2008 at 10:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jeans
Salmon/tuna trivia: My mom says that when canned tuna was first introduced, the buying public, accustomed to pink canned salmon, were skeptical.

I'm told that all canned salmon from Alaska is pink salmon. Pink salmon are also called 'humpies'.

'Humpies from hell'. The locals disdain them. All species of salmon other than chums are considered better table fare. They're extremely numerous in rivers during even years in northern waters. They're name humpies for obvious reasons.

--------------------------

The baja rainbow trout was once considered a subspecies due to morphological differences. That tells me that they rarely made it out to the seas to mix their genes with other trout. Which means that there is rarely enough water flow to allow this to happen. Hence no salmon runs were likely to occur in baja's past.

Sharksbaja - 9-7-2008 at 02:40 AM

Makes sense Skipjack,thanks.

Timo1 - 9-7-2008 at 06:39 AM

When I was a wee bit younger....growing up in Terrace B.C....We caught "humpies" for
their roe to fish for springs
Springs...Kings..Tyee..Silver...Chinook....All the same
Terrace owns the world record for Chinook caught on rod and reel
I tried Pink salmon in my smoker
Don't EVER try it....Just about ruined my smoker with too much fat
Ok....I'll quit ramblin on

Salmon Counts for Fisherman's Landing
tripledigitken - 9-8-2008 at 10:17 AM

This thread reminded me of some spotty Salmon fish counts that pop up occasionly in the San Diego Union. I went to Fisherman's Landing website and found the following:

King Salmon (the only classification) counts back to 2001

2007 nada
2006 1
2005 12
2004 nada
2003 10
2002 6
2001 1

The information doesn't tell you where these were caught, could have been in US waters or Mexico.

Ken