BajaNomad - The Mexicans are coming back home !

The Mexicans are coming back home !

CaboRon - 9-15-2008 at 04:38 PM

Courtesy of the Gringo Gazette:

Illegal immigrants are returning home to Mexico in droves. Numbers like these have not been seen for decades, and the country could experience a crush on its social services and depress wages once the immigrants arrive in their hometowns.

The Mexican Consulate's office in Dallas is seeing increasing numbers of Mexican nationals requesting paperwork to go home for good, especially parents who want to know what documentation they'll need to enroll their children in Mexican schools. That's a role reversal, no ?

"Those numbers have increased percentage-wise tremendously," said Enrique Hubbard, the Mexican consul general in Dallas. "In fact, it's almost double as many this year than it was the previous two years."

The illegal immigrant population in the US has dropped 11% since August of last year, according to the Center for Immigration Studies. It's research shows 1.3 millian illegal immigrants have returned to their home countries.

Some say illegal immigrants are leaving because a soft economy has led to fewer jobs, causing many laborers to seek work elsewhere. An unintended bonus in a recession, if you will. But, others argue that the US's tougher stance on immigration and border control is scaring immigrants back home. The Minutemen are helping, no doubt.

Mexican President FelipeCalderon plans to help returning nationals by providing food, medical care and temporary shelter if needed. But reports are already out in Mexico that the large number of illegal immigrants returning home could drive down wages and put pressure on social services - the same concerns many Americans have with illegals living and working in the US...

Payback Time ?

CaboRon

edited for spelling

[Edited on 9-15-2008 by CaboRon]

Terry28 - 9-15-2008 at 04:42 PM

You mean the G.G has room for a semi-serious article??? must have squeezed it in between all the slanted activles about how great the home sales are going and how well everyone is getting along....I think they should have a tag line on every issue that states " this is a paid advertisement"

The Gringo Gazette??

Dave - 9-15-2008 at 04:43 PM

How would they know? Do they even know what a Mexican looks like? :rolleyes:

CaboRon - 9-15-2008 at 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Terry28
You mean the G.G has room for a semi-serious article??? must have squeezed it in between all the slanted activles about how great the home sales are going and how well everyone is getting along....I think they should have a tag line on every issue that states " this is a paid advertisement"

You know, every magazine and newspaper is supported by advitisors .... to not read it because you don't like the advertizers is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The GG is the number one sourse of news in Baja Sur and I appreciate haveing it.

Most of the news on the BajaNomad forum seems to concern people who live in Baja California or north of there.

This gives us some news with relevance to Baja California Sur.

How about some comments about the article rather than about the source .... and I bet that you do not read the GG or your comments might be different.

CaboRon

[Edited on 9-15-2008 by CaboRon]

DENNIS - 9-15-2008 at 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
The Mexican Consulate's office in Dallas is seeing increasing numbers of Mexican nationals requesting paperwork to go home for good

I can't imagine what kind of paperwork they would need and I'm surprised at the news. I thought they all wanted to stay here and be good Americans, through thick and thin, just like La Raza said they would. Could it be that La Raza was wrong?

Just came to mind....Is the US still paying for those plane trips home for Mexican expats?

Edit for afterthought

[Edited on 9-15-2008 by DENNIS]

CaboRon - 9-15-2008 at 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
The Mexican Consulate's office in Dallas is seeing increasing numbers of Mexican nationals requesting paperwork to go home for good

La Raza is wrong .... most of the illegals do not want to assimilate with OUR culture in the USA. But at the same time they want the protection of our flag.

CaboRon

[Edited on 9-15-2008 by CaboRon]

Dave - 9-15-2008 at 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I can't imagine what kind of paperwork they would need

Lots of it. About 3"x 6" and green.

If this were true...

Dave - 9-15-2008 at 04:55 PM

It's Mexico who needs to build the fence.

DENNIS - 9-15-2008 at 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
La Raza is wrong .... most of the illegals do not want to assimilate with OUR culture in the USA. But at the same time they want the protection of our flag.

Thanks Ron. I should have put one of those laughing heads at the end of my question so people would know it was rhetorical.

DENNIS - 9-15-2008 at 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I can't imagine what kind of paperwork they would need

Lots of it. About 3"x 6" and green.

Now they need a green card to go back to Mexico? They can't get anything right.

No

Dave - 9-15-2008 at 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Now they need a green card to go back to Mexico? They can't get anything right.

This:

Hook - 9-15-2008 at 05:26 PM

I thought low wages was basically why they left in the first place?

Will they be replacing the ranks of the cartel members who's, uh, heads aren't into their work anymore? :smug:

CaboRon - 9-15-2008 at 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
I thought low wages was basically why they left in the first place?

Will they be replacing the ranks of the cartel members who's, uh, heads aren't into their work anymore? :smug:

........ ......

DENNIS - 9-15-2008 at 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
This:

Oh...That.

woody with a view - 9-15-2008 at 05:46 PM

am i reading this right that mexico is enforcing their own immigration laws against their own citizens? the ones who have been sending billions of dollars back each year? the gov't is really pulling out all of the stops to try to keep them here.....suckers!

greybaby - 9-15-2008 at 09:01 PM

I work in a community health center where we see lots of undocumented patients and it is heartbreaking. They come to the US believing the lies that this is the land of opportunity and find themselves in a prison where they are at the mercy of everyone in our system. Do I think they should come here illegally? NO!!!! But, many of them are here and have been for years and they need our help. I translated for a 52 year old man today who has been working in the US for 10 years (with a fake SSN). He has had a stroke, has no money, no job, nothing, especially no rights. My heart broke for him as he came here only to make money to help his family in Jalisco only to find himself trapped in a country that now treats him like dirt. In the county I work in the police are pulling over anyone that looks Mexican for any reason possible and then calling ICE immediately. You may say this is what they deserve, I say that it is very sad that we have come to this. Many "kids" were brought here years ago by their parents thinking they were making a better life for their family and now they are stuck here in a land that doesn't want them and treats them like dirt. The fact of the matter is, they are here, they need our help and we need to do something other than "escort" them out of the country. Now I'm going to log out and get off my high horse so I don't get hit with all the crap that is going to start flying my direction.

greybaby - 9-15-2008 at 09:09 PM

It started before I could even log off. Sorry, but my "place" is already reserved in heaven. I happen to have a heart. Just because I was fortunate enough to be born in the US I don't think I have the right to condemn others who are simply trying to make a better life for their children. I hope and pray you don't live in Baja because you don't deserve to live in a country that you so obviously hate. Good night!!

Bajaboy - 9-15-2008 at 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by greybaby
I work in a community health center where we see lots of undocumented patients and it is heartbreaking. They come to the US believing the lies that this is the land of opportunity and find themselves in a prison where they are at the mercy of everyone in our system. Do I think they should come here illegally? NO!!!! But, many of them are here and have been for years and they need our help. I translated for a 52 year old man today who has been working in the US for 10 years (with a fake SSN). He has had a stroke, has no money, no job, nothing, especially no rights. My heart broke for him as he came here only to make money to help his family in Jalisco only to find himself trapped in a country that now treats him like dirt. In the county I work in the police are pulling over anyone that looks Mexican for any reason possible and then calling ICE immediately. You may say this is what they deserve, I say that it is very sad that we have come to this. Many "kids" were brought here years ago by their parents thinking they were making a better life for their family and now they are stuck here in a land that doesn't want them and treats them like dirt. The fact of the matter is, they are here, they need our help and we need to do something other than "escort" them out of the country. Now I'm going to log out and get off my high horse so I don't get hit with all the crap that is going to start flying my direction.

I'm sympathetic to your tale but the law is the law. If I am in Baja illegally just how do you think the Mexican Government is going to react when I have a heart attack? Again, I said the Government and not the people. Those who come here illegally need to take into account situations such as the one you put forth. Just my thoughts...

Zac

LOSARIPES - 9-16-2008 at 03:21 AM

These -the so called illegal Mexicans- are now becoming a large floating population without roots, because they never actually settled anywhere, except this time they are dragging their children and their possessions. Ironically, they are not welcome in their own country because there are no jobs for them and they are resented in the US for various reasons, racism being one of them, disguised in many ways. It is easy: The righteous "My country"; Its the law; they have worms; The drag down OUR salaries; they don't assimilate; etc.... I've seen it, heard it and this forum is not offering anything new. Its the same old prejudice. The minute men Vs. "Greybaby" attitude ..... whose side are you on? Does it boil down to these two polarized positions?... it normally does. Did anybody pick up on Graybaby's patient who has worked all these years on a fake SSN? who is going to rip those benefits?... nobody and us all.... why?... because of the Law. the problem is complex and in my opinion, it takes a very open mind to address it. History proves that it has been the most vulnerable ethnic group (economic in this case...I hope) the one that falls victim (prey) of the ones in power who tend to become insensitive and blind. Humanity breaks apart in groups and classes... and colors... and races... and every group self-justifies its own attitude. We applaud the minute men? Of all the "Mexican oppressing" groups there are, after the biased intellectuals of course, this is the worst. They are an embarrassment to any decent law abiding citizen of any country. They should be banned by the UN. Sick fat rich boys playing Rambo, enjoying "Mexicans open season"...... is that sick or what... how can that be tolerated....
Anyway, I know this is a sour subject and very, very controverted. I perhaps already stepped on some toes and humbly apologize for doing so. That was not my intention (sounds like a disclaimer but it is not) This is more like an invitation to be empathic and understanding of those like "Juan and Lupita" who have not had a chance and opportunity like others and are still trying... trying... day after day.

This is not a "Baja Related" topic but I did not start it..

The Gull - 9-16-2008 at 05:47 AM

This is not Baja News. It has turned into what belongs in OT.

CaboRon - 9-16-2008 at 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
This is not Baja News. It has turned into what belongs in OT.

I disagree, this will have considerable impact on La Baja ..

DENNIS - 9-16-2008 at 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

The Mexican Consulate's office in Dallas is seeing increasing numbers of Mexican nationals requesting paperwork to go home for good

OK...Back on topic. I still don't understand what paperwork they are requesting to make the trip home.

CaboRon - 9-16-2008 at 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

The Mexican Consulate's office in Dallas is seeing increasing numbers of Mexican nationals requesting paperwork to go home for good

OK...Back on topic. I still don't understand what paperwork they are requesting to make the trip home.

I don't know either .... could it be that these illegals have not been filing income taxes in Mexico all the years they were gone ? I know I have to keep paying/ filing US taxes even though I live in La Baja ....

And maybe their US born children can't legally go to school in Mexico ?

Interesting turnaround of events isn't it ?

You know, it ALL catches back up with you :lol:

CaboRon

[Edited on 9-16-2008 by CaboRon]

DENNIS - 9-16-2008 at 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

And maybe their US born children can't legally go to school in Mexico ?

That's the only thing I can think of but, wouldn't they have dual citizenship?
These people have been supporting Mexico with remittances so, I don't think it's a tax thing. Actually I think it may be an inaccuracy in the article. I've heard writers will sometimes, although rarely, do this when the facts are dull. :lol:

CaboRon - 9-16-2008 at 07:50 AM

Dennis,

Could be a problem with the facts.

OR

Could be that to have dual citizenship you actually have to fill out the paperwork ... it is not an automatic thing.

CaboRon

DENNIS - 9-16-2008 at 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
Could be that to have dual citizenship you actually have to fill out the paperwork ... it is not an automatic thing.

I thought it was until a certain age is reached. Then, the person has to make a decision as to which way to go. Perhaps that has changed.

BajaGringo - 9-16-2008 at 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

The Mexican Consulate's office in Dallas is seeing increasing numbers of Mexican nationals requesting paperwork to go home for good

OK...Back on topic. I still don't understand what paperwork they are requesting to make the trip home.

They are filing for ID. Many of these folks have no Mexican identification they will need once back home. Especially those children born in the US.

DENNIS - 9-16-2008 at 08:19 AM

Thanks Ron. Makes sense now.

The Gull - 9-16-2008 at 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
This is not Baja News. It has turned into what belongs in OT.

I disagree, this will have considerable impact on La Baja ..

Explain in quantitative effects, numbers of people, economic forecast in specifics, quantitative shift in quality of life, education, social system, birth rate, housing, etc.

Ok, back up your "considerable" comment. Time for your arm waving is over. Otherwise, a few more Mexicans per square mile means what, mister considerable?

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!

CaboRon - 9-16-2008 at 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
This is not Baja News. It has turned into what belongs in OT.

I disagree, this will have considerable impact on La Baja ..

If you think I have the time to write a doctoral thesis you are wrong. I don't think you are worthy of my time ....

Do your own research.

CaboRon

Who cares what the statistics are

Bajajack - 9-16-2008 at 08:32 PM

there's more of em leaving everyday and that's all that counts. :lol:

CaboRon - 9-17-2008 at 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajack
there's more of em leaving everyday and that's all that counts. :lol:

The Gull - 9-17-2008 at 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajack
there's more of em leaving everyday and that's all that counts. :lol:

Which way? What counts is who is counting.
Are you counting?
Do you actually believe someone is?
How do you think that is done?
Are you convinced that the reports that are selectively placed on this board represent all the facts on the subject?
Is this where you come for your facts?

It must mean a considerable effect is about to happen somewhere else on Earth if a considerable event is about to happen in Mexico like a considerable population shift. If the those who assert such things cannot support such assertions then it is a considerable pile of guano.

If I wanted facts I wouldn't come

Bajajack - 9-17-2008 at 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajack
there's more of em leaving everyday and that's all that counts. :lol:

to this board.

Now as to your question as to who is counting, it's me.

In the last 3 months at least 10 that I have known for 3-5 years or more have gave it up and went south.

These are the ones who never bother to even try to learn English or adapt to our way of life.

Do I miss em, hell no!

flyfishinPam - 9-17-2008 at 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

The Mexican Consulate's office in Dallas is seeing increasing numbers of Mexican nationals requesting paperwork to go home for good

OK...Back on topic. I still don't understand what paperwork they are requesting to make the trip home.

I've seen Mexicans having to fill out some kind of immigration document before boarding flights in the USA destined for Mexico. Maybe if they leave the country via land for over a certain period they have to document their exit and entry? only guessing here.

as for the school thing if they want their kids in public schools it can be very difficult without the proper paperwork as my husbands family from mainland is experiencing now.

flyfishinPam - 9-17-2008 at 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
Could be that to have dual citizenship you actually have to fill out the paperwork ... it is not an automatic thing.

I thought it was until a certain age is reached. Then, the person has to make a decision as to which way to go. Perhaps that has changed.

as far as Mexican citizenship is concerned persons who have been born outside Mexico can claim their Mexican citizenship if they have parents or even grandparents who were born in Mexico. age is not a factor as I know a man in his 70's who recently got his Mex citizenship but who was born in USA and whose father was born in Mexico.

flyfishinPam - 9-17-2008 at 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
This is not Baja News. It has turned into what belongs in OT.

I disagree, this will have considerable impact on La Baja ..

I will be happy to offer a small bit of insight to your inquiry. Imagine that you find yourself having to relocate into your mother country because of economic and (percieved) human rights issues in your newfound country. You are starting over, a blank slate. WHERE do you go, where do you take your family?

Remember many emigrants from Mexico are the best and brightest who left in search of a better life. Now they find themselves having to leave the comforts and security they have grown accustomed to. With the potential for growth and a wonderfly secure environment, BCS will be a much sought after place to lay their roots. It is happening now. You don't see it up in BC because of the insecurity that is absolutely no secret to anyone except the real estate folks up there, but los Cabos, Todos Santos, La Paz, Loreto and Mulege should expect extaordinary changes in the near future. That level of change will be directly proportional to the performance of the economy in the US and the climate of the immigration issue in the USA. Fact not BS.

So I could go on but I'd likely be wasting my time on you and many like you because your minds are already made up. After ten years of living in Mexico, having family directly affected by the increasing state of insecurity in this country, I have come to the conclusion that emmigration is very bad for Mexico and this is why I have done a complete 180 in my prior thinking. Before my thoughts on this were like that sypmathetic poster whose name escapes me and who wrote about the 50is guy with a fake SSN.

I am doing my part to educate my children and those around me so that they stay here and do good things. I absolutely welcome the Mexicans from the North back here to their home country. THEY will be the ones to make the necessary changes. THEY will be most likely to hold their government responsible for doing their job as public servants, which is exactly why Mexico encourages them to go to the USA in the first place. The "good ol' boys" here don't want change but it is inevitable and it doesn't have to be bloody. They are our hope for the future.

CaboRon - 9-17-2008 at 09:21 AM

Pam,

The Mexican narional who owns the Telmex store I use in La Paz is also a US citizen and returned to La Paz to start his business.

CaboRon

flyfishinPam - 9-17-2008 at 09:51 AM

Quote:

several years ago there was foreign cauccasion woman (probably American by the accent) who was obviously deranged and wandering the streets in Loreto. nobody knows who she was or how she got here. after two days in the Eden resort she was sent back on the next aerocalifornia flight to LAX by immigration. who knows what happend once she arrived there. she wasn't escorted out of the country she was sent out.

[Edited on 9-17-2008 by flyfishinPam]

Bruce R Leech - 9-17-2008 at 11:25 AM

read the Mexican Constitution. It clearly states that any Mexican Citizen who leaves the country for over 5 years is no longer a citizen. Meaning once you leave, don't come back.

Where do it say that?

Dave - 9-17-2008 at 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
read the Mexican Constitution. It clearly states that any Mexican Citizen who leaves the country for over 5 years is no longer a citizen. Meaning once you leave, don't come back.

Show us please.

LOSARIPES - 9-17-2008 at 02:38 PM

---------------MEX CONSTITUTION ART. 30. A AND B.
Mexican are those.........
1) Who are born in Mexico regardless of their parents nationality
2) Those who in compliance with immigration and Nat.laws have become citizens of Mexico.
3) Those who were born out of Mexico from Mexican parents, either one of them or both
4) Those who marry a Mexican citizen and establish legal residence in Mexico
5) Those born in a Mexican flag vessel (boat or airplane) regardless of place on the planet.

MEXICAN NATIONALITY MAY BE LOST IF:.............(ART. 37)
1) Volutary acquisition of another country's citizenship (this has changed and Mexico now accepts dual citizenship)
2) Accepts official appointments to serve other country's interest and representation
3) For helping other country against Mexico's interest...
4) For residing outside of Mexico for 5 or more years continuously in those cases where the mexican nationality had been obtained via a naturalization process.
.......... there are other reasons for which Mex. citizenship/nationality may be lost -extreme cases- rarely seen,probably never happened.

What the Mexicans are filing for in the mexican consulates, are for their Mexican passports or "Matricula Consular"....... docs issued to mexican citizens only. That way they can be admitted back in Mexico and enjoy the benefits they are entitled to, like Med care, schooling, etc.

PS: You can Google up Mexican constitution and it is there, in English and Spanish for your perusal.

CaboRon - 9-17-2008 at 03:58 PM

It does clearly state in #4 that five year limil applies only to those who are naturalized citizens ....

CaboRon

The Gull - 9-17-2008 at 08:46 PM

That does not mean all who have Mexican citizenship will lose it after 5 years of being out of the country. Only the naturalized ones will run the risk. Then there is always the proof of actually leaving Mexico.

I am left with a question or two from before, but since folks choose to avoid answering those, here is the new one for you to avoid...

Why is it seen as a problem if all the illegal immigrants left the US and returned to their birthplace country?

I have the answer why many of you think YOUR returning to the US would be a bad idea, so keep those reasons to yourself.

greybaby - 9-17-2008 at 09:22 PM

(Why is it seen as a problem if all the illegal immigrants left the US and returned to their birthplace country? )

Having a fair amount of contact with illegals on the US side of the border I, for one, do not see it as a negative when they return to their native soil. I only pray that somehow they can find work back home so they can support their families. What I do have a problem with is those who "return" who have never really lived in Mexico - those who were taken to the US by their parents when babies. They don't speak good Spanish, for the most part, and they are in total shock in what, to them, is a foreign culture.