BajaNomad

recommendations for a firearm (ranch-use)

astrobaja - 9-17-2008 at 11:44 AM

Hi all,

Since we are so remote and a visit from a vet is hours away at best we have come to the conclusion that we need some sort of firearm just in case anything ever happens to one of our horses.
We have had the military do a few tours past our property on thier ways towards Mike Sky Ranch and talked to the Commandante. His feeling was that for a ranch owner we should have a rifle of some kind, and that the military make exceptions for ranch owners.
I was told by people working in the park that one can apply to get a firearm through the military, they routinely sell off arms that they have confiscated.
I don't want anything that has a huge kick and also want a readily available calibre, so is someything like a .303 sufficient? Any thoughts on this?

Cypress - 9-17-2008 at 01:01 PM

A .303 is more than sufficent, a 22 short or long in the brain will do the job.:(

astrobaja - 9-17-2008 at 01:26 PM

really? I did'nt think a 22 would be enough for a large animal...
Its not very pleasent to think about especially having just lost our dog, but
we don't want to be left helpless in case of a twisted bowel colic, they are very painful to a horse.
We never had a gun in Canada on our farm, I'm not a fan of them at all, but in a worst case scenario I would use one. Also we may some day get some unsavory types passing through.

Cypress - 9-17-2008 at 01:31 PM

astobaja, A 22 will put down anything you've got on your farm.:(

DENNIS - 9-17-2008 at 01:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by astrobaja
really? I did'nt think a 22 would be enough for a large animal...


At the slaughter yard in Ensenada, they use a 22 for cows, bulls and pigs.
As long as you're going to have a weapon, you may as well have a high caliber. Never know when you may need to be convincing. Up where you are, a shotgun would come in handy as well.

Diver - 9-17-2008 at 01:36 PM

It could take a number of 22 shots but by then they aren't going anywhere.

I would get something with a little more "reach-out-and-touch-them" power and range for self protection and maybe shotgun for closer range.
You can get an old Russian or Chinese AK for about $250 that will definitely do the job.

Cypress - 9-17-2008 at 01:52 PM

Diver? Jeez! Did I miss something here? :spingrin: Astro was talking about putting down a pet, not going to war with someone.:lol:

Diver - 9-17-2008 at 01:56 PM

Well actually, I really like my Mauser 8mm and Mauser 7x57.
Talk about reach-out -and-touch-someone !! :lol:

And then there's the wife's Winchester Defender shotgun and a few more toys.

I hope I never have to use them for anything but game and targets.

Paulina - 9-17-2008 at 02:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by astrobaja
...we don't want to be left helpless in case of a twisted bowel colic, they are very painful to a horse.


Because you are so far away from a vet in case of colic, I'm sure you probably have some Bute, Psyllium and Banamine paste on hand. I hope you never have to go the other route.

P<*)))>{

astrobaja - 9-17-2008 at 03:18 PM

Hi Paulina,

Yep we have a good supply of all the horsey stuff, but they won't touch the pain of a twisted bowel colic. Plus if one of them ever breaks a leg.
Plus if we ever get insistent trespassers the sight of a gun may persude them to leave.

dtbushpilot - 9-17-2008 at 03:24 PM

You should consider ammo availability also. A 22 long rifle or hollow point round will take care of anything around the ranch and also would be adequate for small game and varmits (coyotes etc). It would be relatively cheap and available in Baja...dt

Terry28 - 9-17-2008 at 03:28 PM

Shotgun,,12 guage with solid slugs...That will put anything down and the shotgun with bird shot will take care of most varmints..

If it's legal

Bajajack - 9-17-2008 at 03:56 PM

take whatever you can get and be glad ya got it.

Oso - 9-17-2008 at 04:17 PM

Astro,
From what you're saying, I assume you don't hunt. That's your prerogative, but you may want to consider some scenarios other than just putting down one of your own animals. Such as; protecting them if threatened or attacked by a cougar, coyotes or a pack of wild dogs. There may also be a need to dispatch a rabid animal without getting too close. For this you need a good rifle, with or without a scope. If the army says it's ok, go for it. A .303 is certainly adequate for any critter in Baja including the two-legged variety. It does have a little kick but not as much as a 30.06. I'm surprised about the army selling surplus weapons to civilians. You might pick up a bargain. The problem then becomes obtaining ammo for it. Can you get it from the army? Even if so, do you really want full-jacketed bullets for animals?* You will not find this caliber available from civilian sources. Again I'm very surprised. Mexican citizens who belong to authorized hunting clubs are allowed to own a variety of weapons, but usually are prohibited from owning any caliber that has ever been used by the military of any nation. (even if no longer in use, eliminating my favorite deer rifle- a 1918 Swedish Mauser in 6.5 MM) Therefore, most hunt club members in Mexico who hunt deer or other large game go for a .243 or a .270, strictly civilian calibers and ammo available thru authorized channels. The .243 is a sweet shooter, very little recoil, and adequate for anything up to White Tails. The .270 has a little more punch for Mule Deer but it's mostly a matter of personal choice. A light shotgun, even a .410, is good for rattlers. (back in NC, when I was mowing high weeds etc., I preferred to keep a .38 revolver loaded with "rat shot" in my hip pocket) I wouldn't take the AK suggestion too seriously :lol: Actually, I have a Russian made SKS, tricked out with folding stock, and a knockoff Norinco MAK 90, both with "cuerno de chivo" banana clips. But I'm not loco enough to take either one to Mexico!

*Military ammo is "full jacketed", the lead bullet entirely encased in copper or other hard metal and designed to go all the way thru a human being. The theory behind this is that it is preferable to wound rather than kill, because the wounded enemy then becomes a burden on resources, requiring other personnel to rescue and care for him. Hunting ammo is either all lead or partially jacketed with hollow point and designed to spread on penetration, produce immediate hydroshock and kill as quickly as possible.

fishbuck - 9-17-2008 at 04:27 PM

Check this out:
http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aast1022magnum.htm

Oso - 9-17-2008 at 04:32 PM

Sweet! I want one. BTW Astro, any kind of .22 is useful around a ranch and especially if you're not used to shooting a lot, it's the cheapest ammo for practice, "plinking" at tin cans etc.

Bwana_John - 9-17-2008 at 05:02 PM

Quote:

Well actually, I really like my Mauser 8mm and Mauser 7x57.

Quote:

are prohibited from owning any caliber that has ever been used by the military of any nation.

I thought the rule was no caliber that has ever been used by the Mexican Military. I do know 7mm Mauser is not allowed.

A 12 Guage shotgun with slugs, buckshot, and bird shot WILL handle any problem in North and South America that is less than 80 meters away.

Id ask Old El Commandante to lone me one of them G-3's the Soldados are carrying.:cool:

Hook - 9-17-2008 at 06:04 PM

I imagine this post is creeping out the yellow butterfly folks , BIGTIME !!!!!!!

Oso - 9-17-2008 at 06:09 PM

SFW?

Hook - 9-17-2008 at 06:10 PM

Not passing judgement, just an observation, Oso.

bajaguy - 9-17-2008 at 06:11 PM

If I had to pick one weapon, it would be a 12 gauge pump (Remington 870). If I could have two weapons, I would add a 30-30 rifle (Marlin or Winchester), and if I could have 3 weapons, I would add a .22 pistol (Ruger).

Maybe a combo .22/20 gauge, or a 30-30/20 gauge O/U, think made by Savage Arms.

With the 12 gauge, you can get single shot slip in adapters that will allow you to fire a variety of pistol and rifle caliber ammunition.

[Edited on 9-18-2008 by bajaguy]

Oso - 9-17-2008 at 06:28 PM

I think you're talking about Thompson Center's versatile single shot base that take a variety of barrels. Intriguing weapon for "gadget-minded" people, but hardly a good recommendation for Astrobaja in his particular situation.

.22 needs help on large animals

thebajarunner - 9-17-2008 at 06:34 PM

I raised beef for 24 years, my butcher always used a .22 but that was just to put the animal down, then he immediately cut the throat which bled the animal and also ensured its imminent demise.
He did use .22 'shorts' but said that either size was not a sure thing, so get the animal down, then rely on the knife.
Not sure that a .22 will kill a large critter unless the shot is from very close range, very well placed, etc.

bajaguy - 9-17-2008 at 06:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oso
I think you're talking about Thompson Center's versatile single shot base that take a variety of barrels. Intriguing weapon for "gadget-minded" people, but hardly a good recommendation for Astrobaja in his particular situation.



Nope.....all seperate weapons, not the Thompson family

Oso - 9-17-2008 at 07:01 PM

Yep, bullet placement is essential. I once had a cheapo .25 auto that couldn't hit the side of a barn at 20 yds. But, it worked very well for dispatching goats for barbecue, placing a handkerchief over the barrel and against the back of the neck, quick, quiet, reasonably painless I would suppose, as opposed to other methods.
As far as keeping it for self-defense, I got rid of it quickly.

Bomberro - 9-18-2008 at 05:33 AM

Woops, 30-30's are off limits in Mexico, not even for gun club members!

bajaguy - 9-18-2008 at 06:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bomberro
Woops, 30-30's are off limits in Mexico, not even for gun club members!




Dang.......then another lever action caliber with similar ballistics.

KurtG - 9-18-2008 at 08:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bomberro
Woops, 30-30's are off limits in Mexico, not even for gun club members!


A rancher in a remote area of the Sierra Guadalupe proudly showed me his Model 94 30-30 with a notch in it for every mountain lion he and his father had dispatched over the years.

astrobaja - 9-18-2008 at 09:24 AM

Not worried about wild dogs/coyotes/lions with our horses. The one mare is a 17 hand Hanoverian who will kick the crap out of any intruding predator. We saw her put the run on a large coyote the other day she tolerated it until it got too close then she took off after it full speed! It never returned!

I have heard the 30 30s are a military calibre and off limits, we will just have to see what they have on hand. Not like going to a store!

Americans owning guns?

Cardon Man - 9-18-2008 at 11:43 AM

I wasn't aware that it was a possibility for an American living in Mexico to own a firearm. As I also live in a remote area, I'd been keenly interested to know how to go about securing a legal firearm. What criteria must be met in order to make that happen?

I hope this doesn't count as "hijacking" this thread. But it seems it does relate.

fishbuck - 9-18-2008 at 04:04 PM

There was a thread on here a while back. I think it said if you have an fm2 you can possess 1 handgun and 9 rifles and shotguns. All must be the approve calibers.

Here it is:How Foreigners can legally own a gun in MX

[Edited on 9-18-2008 by fishbuck]

David K - 9-18-2008 at 04:09 PM

Here's the direct link (to the post fishbuck is telling you about): http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=33786

Oso - 9-18-2008 at 04:36 PM

Sounds easier than in Canada, eh Astro?

PS: Let us know what you end up with.

Bomberro - 9-19-2008 at 06:50 AM

There are always contradictions in rules in Mexico. The La Paz gun club has been told no more Americans can join club, even with an FM2, and the Army had a real fit when the only member of the club with an FM2 came into the base to register a few firearms, they finally registered them and then down came the new rule. I have a friend who just joined the San Jose club with no problems and he has an FM2, however, to register any guns he will need to visit the same Army Base and we will see what happens....I think there is a lot of leeway for real Ranchers living on real ranches, still have not heard of the Army furnishing weapons to ranchers, hope its true but I doubt it. They have a statue of guns welded together, must be over two tons, its at the entrance to the Army Base in La Paz.

Your gun issue

chuckmccullough - 9-19-2008 at 10:17 AM

Hi, Steve C. and I will be down at the Meling Ranch next week. Hope to see you then. Maybe we can give you some real life ranch info and stories then. Please say Hi to your wife.:bounce:

astrobaja - 9-19-2008 at 10:34 AM

Hi all,

The military are actually doing a "sweep" through our property today for "horticulturalists". Have yet to catch up with them to chat about this
(its a big ranch-1200 acres)
When I know more about what can be done I will post.
I would rather have one versitile firearm rather than several.

See you next week Chuck!

Bajafun777 - 9-20-2008 at 08:44 AM

A 22 caliber is what the doctor ordered middle of the head between the eyes, we did it that way everytime with the pigs, steers, not the lambs as cutting the throat was done at the butcher plant I worked. We did about 10 animals a week unless right after the fair which caused us to work long hours and seen more animals prepared for eating than a care to remember. It was a way to pay my college expenses and helped me learn to do more pit BBQs than I can count. Later----------------bajafun777