BajaNomad

ultra low sulfur diesel in BCSur

rpleger - 9-24-2008 at 01:31 PM

Does anyone know for sure if ultra low sulfur diesel is avalable in Baja Sur, Mulege and East Cape?

Pescador - 9-25-2008 at 10:17 AM

No, if you check on search you will find that Ensenada is about as far as lower sulfer diesel goes. Antonio at El Rosario had his tested and it was lower than it used to be but still does not qualify for ULSD.
Bob Frambes had a newer diesel truck and is now on his second truck and has experienced no problems with the fuel in Baja.

rpleger - 9-25-2008 at 03:36 PM

Thank you very much

David K - 9-25-2008 at 03:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pescador
No, if you check on search you will find that Ensenada is about as far as lower sulfer diesel goes. Antonio at El Rosario had his tested and it was lower than it used to be but still does not qualify for ULSD.
Bob Frambes had a newer diesel truck and is now on his second truck and has experienced no problems with the fuel in Baja.


Antonio's fuel all comes from the Pemex yard, just north of Ensenada... as do the rest of the stations on Hwy. 1 in Baja Norte... I missed his post about any testing, do you have a link? In any case, there would be no difference in the diesel in El Rosario than Ensenada or Tijuana... :?:

Bob and Susan - 9-25-2008 at 05:00 PM

i've just logged 140 hours of driving in two weeks on pemex diesel with NO problems

just got back again

[Edited on 9-26-2008 by Bob and Susan]

Bomberro - 11-29-2008 at 06:08 AM

Last year the owner of a 2007 1/2 truck brought down a test kit for ULSD. He found the station at Jesus Maria did in fact have ULSD. The fuel in Baja Sur comes from La Paz and tests bad for ULSD. It would appear that the fuel in North Baja was good last year, we would really like to know if anyone has tested the fuel this year? He filled a drum at Jesus Maria and used that to fill his truck to return North. Any testing done this year?

Bob and Susan - 11-29-2008 at 07:44 AM

i really don't understand why people are worried about mexican gas and diesel these days

new tanks and filters are installed in almost every station
gas and diesel are a fine product

sulfur is ONLY taken out of diesel
to protect the enviorment.

this is good

the usa government mandates manufactures
to produce cleaner engines EVERY year

sulfur in reality is a lubricant and
when taken out other chemicals need to be added or
you would get premature engine wear

nothing happens to your engine by running regular diesel
in your new truck

i would be MORE concerned if i had a pre 2007 truck and
had to run "ultra low sulfur diesel fuel" (ULSD) in that thing

the NEW chemicals may be "cleaning" the tank and
you could get leaks and debris in the engine


i just rounded 24000 on the new truck with no fuel related problems

have a nice vacation and don't worry about the fuel:light:

Lauriboats - 11-29-2008 at 08:14 AM

Bob,
Thanks for the information.
We bought a new 2008 Dodge Diesel Truck a couple of days ago, $16,000 off of MSRP. Great time to buy, glad to hear that the diesel in Baja is not going to be a problem. Lauri

Iflyfish - 11-29-2008 at 09:22 AM

Lauriboats

Be careful here and do your research. I would recommend that you go to some diesel sites and see what others are experiencing. What are diesel mechanics finding? Are they seeing problems using regular diesel in the new engines? What sort of problems are they seeing? From my reading you take a significant risk by using regular diesel in the new engines. I have read stories of removing the devices, however some engines may throw codes if you remove the equipment and there are heavy fines for removing these devices. Statistically one person's experience may not make a trend. There are real reasons why newer diesel engines require ULSD.

"If you don't use the correct type of fuel you will cause the diesel particulate filter to clog up quickly. This will cause the engine to attempt to regenerate the particluate trap too often. You cannot turn this system off due to the EPA restrictions that the auto manufacturers have to adhere to."

I found the above quote on a diesel site. There appear to be two devices involved one is the Particlate Filter and it appears to clog with regular diesel. This can void your warrenty if you have an engine failure due to the use of regular diesel.

I don't have a dog in this race, our diesel is a 2006 and its use of regular diesel was one of the reasons we went with that year.

I also don't doubt the stories that other Nomads are telling you however I highly recommend that you gather more information before making this decision.

Iflyfish

Bob and Susan - 11-29-2008 at 11:37 AM

iflyfish...
yes...
"There are real reasons why newer diesel engines require ULSD."

smog requirments...

if manufacturers do not comply with strict emmissions
they get a huge fine from the government

using ULSD fuel DOES burn cleaner than pemex diesel
but does it hurt???

no...the manufacture just CANNOT say it works

actually people have actually used recycled mcdonalds type fry oil in diesels for years

diesels burn almost anything and
the sulfur in the oil is an excellent lubricant to extend the life of the engine

we who use pemex diesel are poluting a little more than those who ONLY use ULSD fuel...

and...

thank you you guys who do!!!

Iflyfish - 11-29-2008 at 02:10 PM

Bob and Susan

I like the old diesel, the sulphur does have better lubricating properties and I like that in my '06 Mercedes powered Winnebago View motor home. The later models use the ULSD and one of the reasons we went with the 06 was because we wanted to be able to burn McDonalds french fry oil as well as the LSD, Low Sulphured Diesel. These older units do not have some of the parts that the new ones do that involve trapping particulate matter in a filter. LSD has more particulate matter.

Oil companies claim that they have put additives in the ULSD to increase lubrication, I doubt they are as good as the sulphur.

I posted this caution so that those reading it would do more research on their own as these are very expensive engines and their warrenties could be voided by the use of LSD. Anyone who owns a newer diesel powered vehicle should research this issue carefully, there could be expensive repairs involved.

I have not doubt of your experience nor the experience of others who have reported the use of LSD in their late model diesel powered engines, however I have also read accounts of clogged catalytic converters and particulate filters resulting in engine failure and expensive repair.

I was concerned that Lauriboats might take your experience and apply it to her new truck and run the risk of damage and repair without examining this issue in depth. I know you have not had a problem but know you would feel terrible if someone else did because of reading your post and not doing their homework.

Iflyfish

Pescador - 11-29-2008 at 03:32 PM

That is all well and good but we may not be getting clear communications from anyone on this matter due to the involvement of the EPA. I have not read any anecdotal information on any of the web sites from individuals who are motor heads as to any significant problems from using elevated sulfur levels in the new engines. I hear of dire consequences mostly on the dealer information sites and EPA sites. So being somewhat skeptical that I do not really have the rest of the story, I am left wondering what the real story is. Does this have a good parallel with all the stuff published and reported about global warming? Since I spend most of the year in Mexico, I have chosen to keep my 01 Dodge Cummings but somewhere in the next couple hundred thousand miles, I will probably be faced with replacing the truck and hopefully by that time either they will have ULSD available in 'Baja Sur or I will have had time to really figure out what the truth really is.

Iflyfish - 11-29-2008 at 04:39 PM

I am not making this up, it is a risk to use Low Sulphur Diesel in your 2007 or later diesel engine. Everyone must make up their own minds. I provide the citations below for your examination as you consider this decision.

Iflyfish

Pooods
Member
Pooodss Gallery Hall

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 85

Don't do it. We used LSD in ours when it was new. In 2 weeks the truck ran horribly. It constantly went into regen and had less power. It smoked like a train (which was nice to see). The reason we were running the fuel was because the dealer told us all stations in our area had ULSD but hadn't changed the decals on the pumps yet. They said by law these stations had to have the new diesel. We took the truck to the dealer to see what was wrong with it and they finally discovered the problem being due to the LSD. I verified that with the station owner. 75% of all stations near my home are only selling LSD with almost none selling ULSD where we work. It really is a pain finding fuel.
http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/general-6-4l-discussion/251...

http://ohe.cat.com/cda/files/380705/7/ULSD%20-%20FAQs,%20Cat...

http://www.thepowernews.com/ULSD.html

http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17025...

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w211-e-class/1360365-diesel-...

http://www.dieselworldmag.com/content/view/53/36/

Iflyfish

Lauriboats - 11-29-2008 at 07:50 PM

Iflyfish,
I really appreciate all of the infomation that you have provided and I agree with you everyone should make their own decision. My husband and I have talked to several people with newer diesels who say they have not had any problems. Reviewing all of your information does make me a little concerned, but we own the truck now and will be making the first trip back to baja in January. Hopefully we will have the same kind of luck that Bob has had with his. Thanks again, Lauri

Iflyfish - 11-29-2008 at 08:26 PM

Lauriboats

Have a wonderful trip, need company?

Nomads don't let Nomads drive with out thinking.:bounce:

Iflyfish

Lauriboats - 11-30-2008 at 08:55 AM

Iflyfish,
Sure, we love to have you come along for the ride. Are you sure that you would take a chance riding in a new Diesel without ULSD in the tank? :lol:

[Edited on 11-30-2008 by Lauriboats]

norte - 11-30-2008 at 12:23 PM

Lauriboats. didn't see any "experts" in that flock of news. In fact one guy said it would hurt the injectors. BS. No credibility after that

Baja&Back - 11-30-2008 at 08:43 PM

We get a lot of people on our tours asking about ULSD. Some of the comments we've found:


ULSD is not available in Mexico, and probably won't be for a long while. The Mexicans have no need for it. Info we have obtained from folks who have travelled up to 4000 miles in Mexico with the new engines suggests that no problems or damage has occurred with them. I personally talked to 2 turistas in Cabo San Lucas with the new diesel and they had no problems.
Following is 3 excerpts from others from who we have solicited opinions on the subject:


"It seems that everyone has an opinion about taking a newer diesel to Mexico. I spoke with several people who had traveled in Mexico, or knew people who had gone to Mexico and had no problems with the fuel. A few were very concerned about warranty issues on their vehicle, but most seemed to think that this would not be a issue. Probably my best source of information came from a friend who has over 40 years of diesel experience. He was trained by a major diesel manufacture and currently ownes a major truck repair business here in Sacramento. In his opinion, a few thousand miles of the higher sulfur would not do any damage to my RV. I spoke with the service manager as well as the head mechanic and they all felt the same way. Short term usage of this fuel would not do any damage to my engine. Asked if they would go to Mexico if they were me, they all advised me to go, have a good time and don't have any concerns about the fuel issue. The thought did occur to me after speaking to these guys was they are in the diesel business and could easily repair any damage from the fuel. So of course they would go. As far as I am concerned, I value their judgment and plan to take my low sulfur RV to Mexico sometime in the near future. Hopefully this year or next year for sure. Will let you know as soon as possible if I can book a trip to Cabo in February of March."

"I have traveled 4000 miles this winter with 2 friends in Mexico. Both with the new diesels one was a Mercedes. No ill effects have been reported. We found no ULSD in Mexico. You need to make your own decision, but I say again I have been in every state in Mexico (inc. Mexico City) and have looked for and not found ULSD. I hear it it is in border towns I haven't looked there. I don't stop in the border towns. "

A fellow on RV.NET forum, named Ed White, has investigated this issue for 2 years, talked to manufacturers, mechanics, and government. His definitive statement is:
"All of the EPA and manufacturer testing of the new DPF systems on the 2007+ trucks proves that the use of higher sulfur fuels causes NO problems whatsoever unless the high sulfur fuel is used continuously for more than 40,000 miles. After that, deterioration of the DPF does occur. The REAL reason that it is illegal to use other than ULSD in the trucks is because of the EMISSIONS. The extra sulfur causes emissions to exceed the EPA ratings. The reason that Ford, GM and Dodge threaten no warranty coverage is because using higher sulfur fuels for more than 40,000 miles does cause some deterioration in performance which, in turn, could cause warranty replacement costs for the Big 3. I have researched this topic to death - you can find lots of posts on the subject at www.dieselplace.com under the Fourth Generation (LMM) engines forum. There has not been a single case of DPF failure due to using Mexican fuel in any of the research I have done since early 2007. If you can find one, please let me know. It's a NON-ISSUE. "

You can read all the posts at http://rv.net/forum if you want, and possibly even contact him.

Iflyfish - 11-30-2008 at 10:39 PM

Thanks Baja&Back for this very interesting and informative post. It contradicts what I have read and will be a great relief to those who want to take their post 07 diesels to Mexico. 40,000 miles is a lot of trips down the Baja! I appreciate the work that went into gathering this information.

I know a lot of Mercedes powered View/Navion drivers who will be relieved to hear this.

Iflyfish