I would like to move my family from NewEngland down to Baja..La Paz maybe Todos Santos...I have a Landscaping/Masonry business with all sorts of
equipment....is there any demand for this type of business in that area?...and what 's the rent down that way for a 3 bedroom/2 bath? I would
appreciate any information anyone might have.
moving to baja sur
pamelaadamson - 5-12-2004 at 08:32 PM
how lucky you are to even think about such a big move? there are so many regs that you need to investigate. you would be among some of the worlds best
masons, and their main tool of their hands.read, read, read everything you can get your hands on about what it would take. you have a valuable resorce
on the net. utilize the experience and expertise of folks that have lived there for years. www.vagabundos.com is a group with excellent advice and connections. i assume you have been down before, and you have a resonable command of
spanish,later being most important if you plan on making a living. head down for 6 mos. minimum and be sure you have access to sat tv so you can watch
the red soxs win the world series this year. ok, we all live in a fanasty. goodddddd luckkkkkk. keep us informed.:cool::coolup:Anonymous - 5-13-2004 at 04:42 AM
Thanks for the info....this is my wifes idea...she is an artist and would like a new source of inspiration..so she calls it?..a change would be nice
for all of us. I will have to give this some thought?..you think I could get a feel for for things with a six month visit?...my spanish
stinks........by the way my friends call me "baylohay"Markitos - 5-13-2004 at 06:25 AM
Todo Santos is beutifull...But you'd have to go to Cabo for money. And then it wont be what your used to. I was offered a job suping a condo project
in Cabo a few years ago. They offered a good wage for there,but i dont like boss's (they make you work all the time!) La Paz supports it's self with
it's own labor. I was working on a friends boat and kinda got hassled.
Maker sure you have a working permit.
Have you thought of teaching your trade?
No matter what you do you wont make what you make here, but then again you dont need has much as here. Wish my wife needed new inspiration I'd be down
all the time! Construction guys can allways pull it off. We are used to being unemployed
Baja Masonry
jrbaja - 5-18-2004 at 10:16 AM
You would be taking work away from the local Mexicans and that is frowned on down here. If you have some sort of specialty trade that they are not
aware of here (unlikely) then you can get the permits necessary to work here.
Where in New England? I'm from Chester originally but have lived in Baja for about 9 years. Smart woman your wife !Dave - 5-18-2004 at 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by jrbaja
You would be taking work away from the local Mexicans and that is frowned on down here. If you have some sort of specialty trade that they are not
aware of here (unlikely)
There are only two ways to work in Mexico.
1. Sponsorship by a Mexican employer.
2. Forming a corporation.
If you plan on being sponsored, it is unlikely that you would recieve a work permit unless you demonstrated a skill not found locally.
If you legally reside in Mexico (FM3/2) and form a corporation,( a national need NOT be a principal), you can do any kind of work provided it is
specifically spelled out in your corporate charter.
One skill that is rarely found in Mexico:
Showing up to work on time or,.... just plain showing up.
That depends
jrbaja - 5-18-2004 at 04:59 PM
on who ya bother and how ya act. Actually, I have a work permit attached to my FM3 which allows me to be a carpenter. And there are plenty of
carpenters here. But, I have something they don't. A watch.
As well as some tools and a fairly decent reputation for running the crews down here and expediting what could possibly take an eternity.
Dave, did you ever go to the Titanic exhibit at the Rosarito Beach Hotel ?
see ya for a Pastrami real soon Amigo.Dave - 5-18-2004 at 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by jrbaja
I have something they don't. A watch.
Priceless!
One of the first things I learned in Spanish was to ask for and to tell time. Totally worthless effort, (at least in Mexico). Only four words/phrases
are needed:
Ahora, which means, somewhere close to now. (Could be a little before or after.)
Ahora mismo or ahorita, which means, right now!
M?s tarde, which means, sometime later than now.
Ma?ana, which (timewise) means, almost anytime in the future except today.
All of this can be rather quaint EXCEPT if you're trying to run a business.
I've lived here for seven years and I have NEVER been asked, "what time is it?".
Did you build that exhibit?
Twas mine
jrbaja - 5-19-2004 at 01:05 PM
I still have most of it too. Taking up space.
Interested? It might look kinda funny on my project down south.Anonymous - 5-19-2004 at 06:01 PM
jrbaja: we are from Essex county(northern Mass) and are darn sick of paying to much on realestate tax.. among other things....plus the winters here
are wayyyyy to long!...If I don't do somrthing quick,my wife will have my head....she put up with my B.S all these years...it's her turn to live out
one of her dreams?
Alma
Margie - 5-19-2004 at 07:00 PM
I have to comment on the comment that Mexicans..."showing up to work on time, just plain showing up", and Mexicans not
having watches. Rather, I'll just quote:
" Mexican and American views of self-worth and the inner qualities of others are often almost exactly the opposite, creating differences in attitudes
and behaviour that range from subtle to blatant.
Americans pride themselves on their independence and individuality, but in reality they are conformists at heart. They expect everyone to behave
more or less as they do, and in business and political situations they are made uncomfortable by people who "follow a different drummer." Americans
also tend to view the world in concrete terms of black and white, and to
measure the worth of individuals by thier accomplishments.
In fact, Americans generally go out of the way to avoid judging people on the basis of their innate character. Instead, they often concern themselves
only with attitudes and actions of the moment and the surface qualities that people exhibit.
Americans are thus led to tolerate and even admire people who are utterly immoral and who routinely behave in the most disreputable ways as long as
they are successful, especially if they occasionally do something positive. This is one of the reasons--probably the main reason, in fact--why people
from other cultures typically accuse Americans of being culturally shallow.
Mexicans, on the other hand, see the world in mixed hues, and are more concerned with the inner qualities of people than with how hard they work, what
skills they may possess or what extraordinary feats they may accomplish. Despite the conformity demanded by Mexican etiquette, it is the
individuality and the intellectual and emotional uniqueness of each person they prize the most.
In fact, Mexicans regard the innate alma or "spirit" of the individual as the most important of all human qualities, and their culture is fashioned
around this concept.
Alma is manifested in the national character of Mexicans in many ways, and colors their character and personality. It is the foundation of many of
the primary elements in their Mexicanness, and is especially important to the sense of personal dignity that imbues Mexicans. Alma influences --and
sometimes compels -- Mexicans to do things for the sake of their image and emotional well-being that range from wonderfully nurturing to irrational,
and oftentimes dangerous as well.
Among the alma influenced things which Mexicans are famous--or infamous, depending on the nature--are their highly stylized personal etiquette, their
close family ties, their fascination with bullfighting, the penchant for men to drive recklessly and taking violent revenge for some real or imagined
slight.
Because of their spiritual and emotional orientation, Mexicans are generally uncomfortable with American-style systems or programs that are highly
structured and which reduce or eliminate the "human" element that Mexicans hold so dear.
While Americans are conditioned to repress their personal feelings, to thrive on facts and abstract reasoning and to do things "by the numbers,"
Mexicans have long been taught to ignore numbers and abstractions and let their spirits guide them.
Not surprisingly, most outsiders wanting to do business with Mexico naturally begin with an approach that is based on facts and logic, only to
discover eventually that they must first resolve spiritual and emotional issues in order to achieve lasting success.
Foreign businesspeople who are tempted to regard the alma factor in Mexican culture as a handicap should keep in mind that Mexicans themselves view it
as one of the most admirable facets of their lifestyle, and they believe that people who live in more mechanistic societies are being deprived of much
of thier humanity.
The spiritual element in Mexican culture is certainly not all negative, even from the outsider's viewpoint. It is the source of the artistic and
poetic impulses that are characteristic of Mexicans, including their obsession with music. It is also the wellspring of the special warmth and
hospitality that Mexicans typically extend to friends and guests, as well as most of the other facets of Mexican culture that outsiders find so
beguilling, from their long midafternoon lunches to their festivals."
FromMexican Cultural Code Words, by Boye Lafayette De Mente
A great book and must have for all of us to learn from.
[Edited on 5-20-2004 by Margie]
Margie
jrbaja - 5-19-2004 at 07:53 PM
Margie, have you lived in any other places in Mexico or Baja besides San Antonio? It seems as if you have quite the insight into a foreign culture.
The border towns are actually quite different than the Baja cummunities south of here. And Ensenada, and all the rest of the places that are so
popular for tourism.
My watch comment was a joke. I deal with the people down here regularly and actually run crews on occasion. I feel a little differently than you do
about some things.
And so far, there is such a long windedness to everything you have to say, I doubt that I would ever get to the end of one of your stories around
that campfire.
Do you carry on that way in Spanish with your Mexican "compadres" as well ?
Amexica
bajalou - 5-19-2004 at 08:16 PM
You're so right JR, the border towns are not a good representation of either country. Time magazine did a issue on "Amexico" with articles about
several of the towns on the border between USA & Mexico. My experience is that the realy "tourist" towns such as CSL are not representative of the
rest of the country/state. A few miles (???) away from these areas will show a very different cutlure and ways of life.
Margie - 5-19-2004 at 09:52 PM
jrbaja -
Absolutely, from Tijuana down to Ensenada are known as the Borderlands. Several studies have been done on this unique cultural mix.
Before I was married, I lived in Mexico City for a year,where I taught and travelled ;also in England where I went to school.
My favorite place is Guanajuato.and I adore Oaxaca.
You have to remember that this whole Borderlands area was completely different , and down to the tip, what is it now, 30-35 years ago when I was a
kid. i practically grew up here, it was really wonderful.
We lived in Punta Banda for 4 years, thinking it would be a good base camp for trekking south, Jack was commuting daily to work.
Noone wants to discuss the concept of alma? Pity that.
[Edited on 5-20-2004 by Margie]
Alma
jrbaja - 5-19-2004 at 10:19 PM
I personally don't want to discuss Alma because I am a firm believer in saying what I have to say without quoting someone elses ideas, however correct
they may be.
What I am involved with is traveling throughout this peninsula on a regular basis, contributing and teaching when I can, and dealing with the more
rural people regularly.
From what I see, they are an entirely different culture from the rest of what Baja has now become because of their inaccessability and remoteness.
San Javier was like that just a few years back but the Loreto tourism changed all that.
Most of these "not so known" but native to Baja people are actually more than punctual, (where they got it I don't know) because they have no
watches, they work their behinds off every day of their healthy lives except Sundays, they party on occasions and are very serious about it, and their
families stay together. No matter what.
These are some of the most incredible families I have met anywhere in the world and they are entirely different than most of the people that have
transplanted themselves here for whatever reasons.
I highly recommend seeing the real Baja rather than San Antonio or La Bufadora, both of which are Gringo enclaves. Margie - 5-19-2004 at 11:28 PM
His quote was simply a reference to stimulate other people's ideas, perhaps their experiences, their insights, their interpretation And I really
would recommend this book to the folks who are thinking about moving, he touches on some very important sociological issues which are helpful as an
insight to the way the society functions, and a buffer against any "culture shock".
This was the real Baja when I was growing up, and of course that is no longer so, but we prefer living here than to the states, and Jack is still
working, so he has to commute.
Every chance we get, we are outa here and heading down south. This year for 7 weeks accrued leave time, we're going to drive down the Mainland, can
hardly wait ! We're not going to be here forever, I'm kind of thinking Costa Rica when Jack retires. But still, it is lovely here, especially during
the winter, reminds me a little what San Diego used to be like, no people, no crowds, no traffic,noone in the water, all the waves you want. Actually,
SADM was a Gringo enclave about 25 years ago, but now it has become more of a Mexican enclave. The wealthy Mexicans have second homes here that they
only use during the summer, most of them from Mexicali and as the older generation of Americans died off, the Mexicans have been buying up property
here like hotcakes and remodeling the homes, or, they are retired Mexicans. The camps and the spit in Punta Banda were American, but not so in the
Cantu Ejido, Rincon, Maneadero, the farms, and the backcountry.
Speaking of development, this is an old article, but looks like the way it's going to go down here:
Good luck to you folks who are headed this way, the internet is a great source for info, too.
[Edited on 5-20-2004 by Margie]
The new Baja
jrbaja - 5-20-2004 at 08:38 AM
Yes Margie, you are correct. The nautical ladder is alive and well, and the plan for Baja is development. I am just praying it goes at it's usual
pace.
When I first started surfing down here there was no Rosarito or San Antonio del Mar. And when after living in Wyoming and Tahoe for about 15 years
and coming down here after that, I was a little shocked to find Festival Plaza, Papas n Beer, etc.
But that was before all the girls said "excuse me sir". hahahahaha. So I kinda liked the clubs and the "new Rosarito".
Then after moving here about 9 years ago, I began running into all these Americans who felt it was there duty to teach the Mexican people the gringo
ways.
And as I have stated on here before, unless you can show a much better example with your own country, you have no business trying to teach your
methods of life or imposing it on anyone else.
Which is why I get along so well with most of these people. I would much rather learn their ways than impose mine on them. It has earned me a lot
of respect and now when I am discussing why trash should be picked up, they actually do it rather than just agreeing and nothing happening. Sound
familiar ?
I spend a lot of time in all the Pueblos in Baja. I don't like what I see happening here and there are many reasons. One of the main reasons is
seeing way to many gringos with way too much money ruining the sleepy little villages that once were here.
Here's an example. The internet cafes in Los Barriles charge $4.50 per hour as opposed to $1.50 everywhere else that I'm aware of. How many
Mexicans can afford to use the internet at those prices?
And who wants to listen to a bunch of wealthy old bags complaining about how long it's taking to get something done, how they just don't listen to
my pathetic Spanish when I am talking to them, or how bad the food was at such and such restaurant.
Every time I have been in that cafe, this has been the scene. This to me is not setting a good example of why they should be like us. It doesn't
look that fun to me or to them.
There now, I have made a journal with my babble rather than just a short note.
Anyways, I would hurry every chance you get to see the real Baja before it no longer exists. Dave - 5-20-2004 at 10:45 AM
Margie, all this SOUNDS wonderful but from a business standpoint it produces total chaos.
If Mexico is to ever compete in a global economy it MUST accept standard business practice.
And JR, it is not only gringos who demand timely service. Mexico's business community is just as fed up with ma?ana as the gringos.
Dave
jrbaja - 5-20-2004 at 12:28 PM
is that the Mexican business community or the Nueva York Deli. business that is fed up with the ma?ana syndrome?Margie - 5-20-2004 at 12:29 PM
Yes, jrbaja, I remeber those days. Now a drink is up to sometimes $4.50 in town. The really old-timers, who would drive all the way down before the
Transpennisular Highway, would rib us when we were on a stoke just to be able to go down to Mulege and say, Nah, you missed it, this is the way it
used to be...
But I still love it, and it is still amazing and beautiful.
I didn't think I would like Rosarito when we moved back up here, but found that it really is a nice town, I think nicer than Ensenada. I know I'm
going to get jumped on by someone for having said that. Used to be that Mexacali was the political hot spot, but now they are saying that Rosarito
is. You have to give these people credit, they threw tomatoes at the Mayor and the Governor and kept the LNG plant out by their persistance and
ability to organize.
I thought I would drop dead when I saw them marching in the street opposing this plan. As far as an LNG plant going in north of here at La Joya is
speculative. I really don't know the latest, except for that the Mexican government seized all that property at La Joya just a couple months back. I
think it was being leased by Sempra, So, the question is, did they seize it to stave off the Plant, or did they seize it to profit from a Plant ?
Maybe Jesse can fill in the blanks.
We're all pretty lucky to be able to enjoy Baja, let me ask you jrbaja, is that picture your home away from how down here ?If so, you must really be a
mountain man.
Dave, Do you want me to bring you a little statue of St. Joseph, patron saint of workers and home for your shop? Ha, ha!
It sounds like you already have a network of palancas. Hope your business does well. Are you related to Arnold Rothstein maybe ?? And if you say
no, Meyer Lansky, I'm gonna fall off my chair again.
Have a good one.
P.S. jrbaja, do you remember Jack and Hank Rosenthal from old surfing days ?
[Edited on 5-20-2004 by Margie]
[Edited on 5-20-2004 by Margie]
Margie
jrbaja - 5-20-2004 at 12:40 PM
Nope, that's one of the most remote ranches in Baja. It is about a days drive from the Carretera on some interesting roads and a four mile hike.
They send their cheese out on burros to trade with the rest of the ranches and they are some of the most healthy people I've ever met.
Here's a picture of them entertaing us at lunch. Margie - 5-20-2004 at 12:56 PM
Nice picture ! I love that cheese, I haven't found any around here. Used to get it on the road from Ensenada going to Oso Negro Hot Spings, need
some, desperately.Dave - 5-20-2004 at 02:30 PM
JR, I do some consulting as well as networking with the business community and I can tell you that their #1 complaint is labor. A close second is
draconian government regulations. #3, corruption.
Margie, Mexican workers already have a patron saint.....Mexican labor law.
If by la Jolla you mean the LNG plant planned for the Coronado Islands, It's a done deal. It's also a GOOD deal for the citizens of Baja.
My main complaint is
jrbaja - 5-20-2004 at 02:47 PM
having to go to five different hardware stores in La Paz to find 2 1/2" black screws. But, it didn't come as a big surprise!
Especially after waiting 15 days 3 times for the tractor to show up to clear my land. Which wasn't much of a surprise either.
And then there was, - - - oh nevermind, you know what I am saying. I just don't let it bother me anymore. Stress n all!
See ya soon.
And for Maggie
jrbaja - 5-20-2004 at 02:58 PM
Most of my friends down there make cheese. This is a different kind than the regular ranch cheese but just as good.
I'll see if I can bring you up some when I come back next time. First thing I do when I get south is pick up cheese for my travels.Margie - 5-20-2004 at 06:53 PM
Tanks Buckwheat ! Just don't lace it with peyote.
I'm already on a trip.
Ha, ha, ha, ha !!
Good point Margie
jrbaja - 5-20-2004 at 08:06 PM
after all, that land is full of bandidos, peyote, drug lords and everything non-gringolike.
Just like they say in the U.S. media, the reports from the cartographers who have never been there (Baja Almanac and the rest of the gringo
publications), and the valuable information I'm sure you get from the Gringo Gazzette.
I'd stay away from those taco stands too if I were you, they just aren't quite up to gringo standards and you might contract something horrid.
But speaking of Peyote, check out the Yaqui cooking my Chongos. The aura in that photo isn't from monkey smoke.Margie - 5-20-2004 at 11:58 PM
..The natives look restless, be careful
white eyes....
