BajaNomad - How are US economics influencing Nomads?

How are US economics influencing Nomads?

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BajaNuts - 9-29-2008 at 09:22 PM

I'm just wondering if today's economic "crises", Wall Street drops and the whole FreddieMac/Fannie/Mae thing have had any personal effect or impact on Nomads, wherever you may be.

Our mortgage lender just got bought out (in other words, they were going under) and we thought we had one of the better financial institutions in our region.

Diver - 9-29-2008 at 09:35 PM

We're also on the dry side of the Cascades; west of you, near The Dalles.
Part of my business comes from the housing industry - business is down.
This will most likely affect the amount of time and money we are able to spend in Baja this winter.
I would guess that many are in the same boat these days.
Looks like another poor tourist season ahead in Baja.

BajaNuts - 9-29-2008 at 09:48 PM

We are in the construction industry (as subcontactors on custom homes) and so far this year we know of 5 projects that have been cancelled or put on hold.

So what does a poor tourist season mean for Baja? aside from the obvious loss of revenue to the hospitality industry, how far down does it trickle?

And does the US economy really affect Baja economy that much? I mean, people from other countries travel and buy property on the Baja peninsula just like Americans do.

I'm just wondering what the "feeling on the Nomad street" is regarding the personal impact of what's happening with the US economy. Is it for real, or is it all media hype?

I'm more interested in first hand replies than links to political sites or political rhetoric. Are you personally worried about US economics and how has it directly affected you/your finances?

Bajaboy - 9-29-2008 at 10:21 PM

We're doing okay...my wife is an English/Social Studies teacher and I'm a math teacher. We have a fixed mortgage so no worries there and live within our means. While others around us were buying up a storm on credit during the "housing" boom, we were paying down our bills.

We're both currently on maternity leave and plan to spend about a month at our place in Bahia Asuncion in November. We're looking forward to the empty highways.

Zac

Bajabus - 9-29-2008 at 10:25 PM

I personally am not too worried. We have been seeing a distinct rise in disaster recovery and WAN back up via a VSAT solution in the last year or so. All these contracts are 2-4 year contracts, many with govt agencies the rest with fairly big fortune 500 industries. Also seeing a lot of orders by oil companies wanting instant satellite communications at remote well sites that do not rely on land infrastructure. Just did a nice 8 site pilot contract with BNE in Belize.

The other emerging trend we are seeing is more inquiries from large companies to provide remote connectivity for telecommuters in rural areas via satellite.

The consumer level VSAT data connectivity market IE INTERNET via satellite for consumers does seem almost flat. Churn in that market is hanging at about 2-3% which is where it has been for the past 3-5 years.

It is fairly easy for me to still run our business from Baja. Having a new born crimped us coming down but now that he is 2 years old we hope to get back to regular visits. Been down since Sept 18th and heading back to the states Oct 7th. It's a trial run to see how it is with the new addition and it seeming to go well. The heat, humidity and insects are the biggest problems right now in Elias Calles

2-tie-dye-4 - 9-29-2008 at 10:42 PM

I am a bartender in a tourist town, and I can see the drop in tourism, the bars and restaurants are still doing ok, but the other merchants are suffering. A lot of shops are having to close. I'm seeing a lot more European tourists, I think because their dollar is worth more in the States so it offsets the plane ticket.

2-tie-dye-4 - 9-29-2008 at 10:44 PM

Hey kids,
Forgive the off topic, but can anyone tell me if it's possible to put pictures back on a card? I downloaded my Baja pics to my hard drive and then deleted the card, using a card reader device in my USB. I wonder if I can put them back on the card????

Skipjack Joe - 9-29-2008 at 10:51 PM

I had been working for a software company that facilitated mortgage loans by lenders. Our biggest client had been American Home Lender in San Diego. Last spring they unexpectedly (by us) went belly up. Our staff was reduced from 14 to about 4.

So then I moved on to our new and still bigger client, Bear Stearns. We all felt so secure. Bear was just too big. We were safe. Then it happened. In late November we were summoned into the office one by one and told we had 2 weeks left. It had taken management by surprise as well.

So I left Irvine and now work for Salesforce.com. Their revenue is incredible. I miss the old company though.

Shark18 - 9-29-2008 at 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2-tie-dye-4
Hey kids,
Forgive the off topic, but can anyone tell me if it's possible to put pictures back on a card? I downloaded my Baja pics to my hard drive and then deleted the card, using a card reader device in my USB. I wonder if I can put them back on the card????

Yes, plug the card back into the USB and open up windows Explorer (assuming you have a PC). The card will show up as another hard drive with a letter like H:, I:, J:, etc. Find your pictures on your C: drive, select them with the mouse and then drag them to the letter drive of your card.

Voila!

dao45 - 9-30-2008 at 02:12 AM

As far as tourist based economies go it usually starts out with resturants and bars.Then craft shops or art galleries then imports because everyone is trying to be competitive.
Most tourist economies dont generate a lot of good paying jobs.Then prices go up in the rental sectors and normal shop keeper or service industry workers find rents very high compared to wages.Results are work here and live somewhere else.
Also in a downturn of the economy small shops tend to be the first to suffer as a result there are lay offs.Less taxes generated and in general less income generated for government.
In my humble opinion a mixture of tourism and small manufacturing is a much better blend for a small community or village.With small manufacturing your sales base doesnt really count on people visiting your community and as a result helps insulate you from things such as high fuel costs
downturns in visitors and the like.

But then again I am now retired and dont really care much

fishbuck - 9-30-2008 at 02:29 AM

I went to the Pyrimid resort last weekend.
It was deserted. I only saw one other room ocupied.
It was like me and my girl had a private oceanfront mansion.
Heck we could have stood naked on the balcony and no one would know.

I hoping to buy some more property in Baja if the prices come down some more.
And maybe some in the US too.
I've been working my tail off and trying to pay off all my bills.
So if I get layed off I will spend some time in Baja before I find another job.
But if I don't I'll be looking for opertunities in Baja.

woody with a view - 9-30-2008 at 06:49 AM

been swinging my hammer strong for the past 4-5 years for a general contractor building military homes all over the southwest. laid off until "novemberish". the down time is welcome so i can do some side jobs to add to my "much enjoyment", er, i mean unemployment.

that, and i have a lot of time for baja. 10 days in 9 days.... life is good. :tumble:

Skeet/Loreto - 9-30-2008 at 07:22 AM

Texas Nomad is doing Great!!
Here in the Texas Panhandle as in other Parts of Texas the slowdown is just starting.

It is different in Baja!, Just talked to my Friend Alvaro{The Best Pangero Fishermand in Loreto}In my Opinion]. He and the other Pangeroas are having trouble with very few Customers.
I think that maybe some of the other Fishin Companies are having trouble also, just have not posted it.

I will let the Board know my Opinions after my trip down next week.

I understand from others that the "Time Share Scamers are geting real "Pushy on the streets of Loreto""

Is that True Pam???

If I was of the mind to make a Couple of Million in the next 5 to 10 years I still say go into the Lower Income Residential Rental Business.

Save your Cash.

Skeet

mulegemichael - 9-30-2008 at 07:40 AM

The present situation is not good, as we all know...everyone is suffering to one degree or another. Our tourist business is down but our retail and internet sales are steady or up. Our broker says look at the "upside"; time to buy!!

Hook - 9-30-2008 at 07:41 AM

Hard to tell how slow it is during the off season over here in Sonora. The next month should tell much. Some snowbirds starting to return, though.

Real estate market is glutted over here. Very little moving, even empty lots. Some homes are approaching three years on the market................but the foolish owners, advised by their foolish RE agents wont drop the price. Those that do, can get sold. Prices have definitely dropped, though.

It would be naive to think that trouble with the US economy wont translate to Mexico. It's now starting to affect the whole global economy, including China and Europe.

oxxo - 9-30-2008 at 07:48 AM

I am speaking as a full time resident of Baja living in and on retirement. I have seen my retirement income reduced by about 10% over the last month as a result of the market crash in the US. However, I have seen the peso fall in value by about 10% relative to the US dollar over that same one month period. So, on a short term basis, I have seen my lifestyle remain about the same overall.

But I expect my retirement accounts to fall even further in the future. And according to the Gringo Gazette, business is off about 30% in Los Cabos as compared to last summer and I expect it will get worse. That means that the "mexican business model" will kick in any time now in the face of reduced business and falling peso. That Los Cabos business model means increasded prices with a corresponding decrease in quantity and/or quality and/or services. That means I will have less money to spend on more expensive goods and services in Baja.

So, I expect that my standard of living is going to be falling at some time in the future. But I would rather suffer in Baja than suffer in Fresno. :yes:

Keri - 9-30-2008 at 07:57 AM

Our business is off by 2/3. I hate to see this winter. We were in La Fonda last Monday night . No one else there just us for 2 hours then 1 more couple came in. I see lots of little stores closing in Rosarito. The economy coupled with the media and we are pretty dead in the water here. Every one we talk to here is hurting bad and it is going to get worse before it gets better. Winter is always slow anyway so we have the season to add to the equation also . We will have to wait until summer again to hopefully see a raise in the tourism. Some one said they were seeing alot of Europeans here, I haven't seen that but we have been getting many more Mexicans. That is now most of our clientele ,k

shari - 9-30-2008 at 08:14 AM

We are finding that we are getting more clients who used to go to more expensive areas. For example this big group usually goes fishing in San Quintin but came here to check it out...LOVED the fishing and cheaper prices on both accomodation and fishing and will be back.
WE havent really experienced the setbacks yet due to economy but I'm sure we will.
Fortunately lots of canadians come here and camping types who maybe arent so tied into economic fluxuations.
My sincere regrets to all of you who are suffering...chin up!

[Edited on 9-30-2008 by shari]

DSC00578.JPG - 44kB

Hook - 9-30-2008 at 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo
I am speaking as a full time resident of Baja living in and on retirement. I have seen my retirement income reduced by about 10% over the last month as a result of the market crash in the US. However, I have seen the peso fall in value by about 10% relative to the US dollar over that same one month period. So, on a short term basis, I have seen my lifestyle remain about the same overall.

But I expect my retirement accounts to fall even further in the future. And according to the Gringo Gazette, business is off about 30% in Los Cabos as compared to last summer and I expect it will get worse. That means that the "mexican business model" will kick in any time now in the face of reduced business and falling peso. That Los Cabos business model means increasded prices with a corresponding decrease in quantity and/or quality and/or services. That means I will have less money to spend on more expensive goods and services in Baja.

So, I expect that my standard of living is going to be falling at some time in the future. But I would rather suffer in Baja than suffer in Fresno. :yes:

If your fixed income dropped by 10% and the peso lost 10% in relation to the dollar, assuming you are paid in dollars and prices in Mexico reflect the devaluation, doesnt that translate to a 20% drop in purchasing power while you're down there?

oxxo - 9-30-2008 at 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
If your fixed income dropped by 10% and the peso lost 10% in relation to the dollar, assuming you are paid in dollars and prices in Mexico reflect the devaluation, doesnt that translate to a 20% drop in purchasing power while you're down there?

I guess I didn't explain myself properly. My dollar buys 10% more pesos than it did one month ago.

lingililingili - 9-30-2008 at 08:46 AM

Our internet sales are waaay down, guess people are not thinking about shower heads and towels right now! I expect things are going to get better, they always do............right?

Iflyfish - 9-30-2008 at 09:08 AM

We are retired and liking our wounds. Every ones ox will be gored in this one! We are hunkered down and waiting to see how the smoke clears.

Iflyfish

Iflyfish - 9-30-2008 at 09:09 AM

We are licking our wounds, not liking them, that would be masochistic and we are both whimps when it comes to pain.

Iflyfish

Woooosh - 9-30-2008 at 09:18 AM

I'm transferring more dollars into my Mexico account. The exchange rate is almost 11.

The financial problem is global. The World financial markets have the same exposure to these toxic securities- they just aren't talking about them yet. They will. They are all badmouthing the USA (for turning it's back on capitallism) right now, waiting for the USA to bail the whole lot of them out. If congress stalls a few more weeks- they will have to bail themselves out first. With half of congress up for re-election in five weeks and the public running 30-1 against any bailout- it'll get very interesting and IMHO nothing will happen in congress. Bush will have to fudge a workaround.

I don't know what the impact will be on Mexican banks. Any nomads have an insights to share?

[Edited on 9-30-2008 by Woooosh]

David K - 9-30-2008 at 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2-tie-dye-4
I am a bartender in a tourist town, and I can see the drop in tourism, the bars and restaurants are still doing ok, but the other merchants are suffering. A lot of shops are having to close. I'm seeing a lot more European tourists, I think because their dollar is worth more in the States so it offsets the plane ticket.

I hope The Haunted Hamburger will still be open next time we pass through! What a view!

Anyway... the economy always goes in cycles... makes adjustments... strong years then lean years. Dropped over 700 points yesterday, but up 200 already this morning... Personally, I still have irrigation estimates to do this week and one drip system to install today... So far, so good...

[Edited on 9-30-2008 by David K]

Osprey - 9-30-2008 at 09:20 AM

Ox goring and wound licking are time consuming. What's next? Iusedtoflyfish?
The Osprey is doing fine in little old Mexican village land. I'll be in good shape as long as no one in congress is allowed to utter the words Social Security (not even in their sleep) lest they spark an old people revolt. Can you imagine 10 million of us shuffling up Pennsylvania Ave. with our walkers? Not a pretty site. Probably bust out the DC garbage brigade just from having to collect our used colostomy bags, Pampers, Depends and Tucks.

oxxo - 9-30-2008 at 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
collect our used colostomy bags, Pampers, Depends and Tucks.

In the trade, those items are euphemistically called "products."

[Edited on 9-30-2008 by oxxo]

Barry A. - 9-30-2008 at 10:04 AM

-------we have lost about 20% of our net worth on paper. I am confidant it WILL come back, tho, in time.

We went out to dinner last Sat. night in little ol Redding, CA (pop about 90K) at the OLIVE GARDEN-------there was a 30 min. wait to get in so we moved on-------all the restaurants were jammed, so we went on home and ate soup and crackers.

Apparently all these folks eating out don't know that they are "hurting", or they are taking an "On the Beach" attitude, and just blowing their last remaining bucks---(??)----before they die.

Who really knows. It IS a buying opportunity, tho.

Barry

woody with a view - 9-30-2008 at 10:25 AM

for those who are scared

don't worry, the gov't will save you.

those who are not scared, read previous line

:barf:

Skeet/Loreto - 9-30-2008 at 01:56 PM

For those living in Baja and wanting to make some money in Pesos- Watch the 28 Day Note market and the Interest it is Paying.

Also if you have the right connection in La Paz you can find out ahead of time when the Devaluation is going to happen.

I think it is time to watch the Peso Rise to a Higher Level.

BajaNuts - 9-30-2008 at 06:50 PM

muchas gracias to all who have posted. It is helpful and insightful to hear a little snippet of real life about an important topic, and especially when real life is not what the media portrays.

We live in a very rural area of WA (the nearest :fire:

Wal-mart

is 45 miles away, over a 4000 ft high mountain pass....Thank Goodness!!!!) but our previous lives were in more populated areas. It's sometimes hard to get an acccurate perspective on things when the only input we have is the daily news...........which is always negative!

Hopefully others will still want to post-

Thanks again...
BN1

Cajones - 9-30-2008 at 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
With half of congress up for re-election in five weeks and the public running 30-1 against any bailout- it'll get very interesting and IMHO nothing will happen in congress. Bush will have to fudge a workaround.

The entire House of Representatives stands for election every two years and 1/3 of the Senate. All told, 87% of Congress will be up for election in November...435 Congressmen and 33 Senators.

Cajones - 9-30-2008 at 07:39 PM

Things are so bad in TJ that most of those mixteca indian beggars with their kids who run up down selling chicles have picked up and moved down to Rosarito and Popotla.

Skip_Mac - 9-30-2008 at 07:54 PM

Economy, What economy? Sadly my current career is dependent on commercial properties changing hands or being refinanced. Disaster for me, my subordinate laid off. Me taking weeks off without pay to help keep the company cash flow positive... Sadly those weeks cannot be translated to Baja trips without cash (sparse resource) outlay.

Perhaps I should shop my abilities back to the gold mining industry (but they are slave driving, hire and fire, typical Alta America corporations...No security there.

Mexico does look interesting. I would pose a question to any economically minded Nomads living in Baja.

That is, Can you give me a reasonable estimate of day to day living costs in your location. Oh, yes, all your individual specific conditions will be highly variable (retirement programs, medical, whether or not you could finance your residence from an USA sale of property. I am not proposing that you reveal all your financial info...But I am curious... what doesw it cost YOU ( presumably a USA citizen) to live in the Baja of Mexico.

Anyone care to comment. No Judgement, No agenda, just curious.

Gracias, Nomad Amigos.

If any of you have any problem/issue with this proposal...no problem.. I really have no agenda... Objections/Suggestion are cool.

wornout - 9-30-2008 at 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cajones

Quote:

The entire House of Representatives stands for election every two years and 1/3 of the Senate. All told, 87% of Congress will be up for election in November...435 Congressmen and 33 Senators.

That is GREAT news. Now if we can get get the 'VOTE ALL INCUMBENTS OUT' movement going/ Life can be good again in the old country, which of course improves life in Baja. 9% approval rating, will they ever learn or should I say when will we learn to dump them every election if they keep this up. And, I mean there is enough shame in both parties!

Oh yea, to keep back on topic, the economy doesn't really hurt that bad for us retired folks, on Social Security and without mortgages, who get more pesos at the exchange. Of course it takes more to buy what less bought before. Glad the house is paid off, I lost my retirement at Enron so I don't worry anymore.

slimshady - 9-30-2008 at 09:23 PM

MAYBE CONSTRUCTION COSTS WILL FINALLY COME DOWN.

fishbuck - 9-30-2008 at 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slimshady
MAYBE CONSTRUCTION COSTS WILL FINALLY COME DOWN.

Ya, and I'm looking for good deals on property :yes:

dao45 - 9-30-2008 at 10:21 PM

David K next time you come through jerome I would love to buy you a drink
AKA Rodorado

Osprey - 10-1-2008 at 06:10 AM

This is a good time not to have any assets. In Baja Sur, in these little villages there are no homes with mortgages (yet). So we might as well be living in caves. No debt, no sweat. That one thing is the billion percent difference between a free and easy tropical lifestyle and staying put in the U.S. and having to struggle with the problems attendant to a home, a nest. We spend every centavo we get from the ATMs, hope it's enough -- people living in caves can weather big storms; they just need some rice and beans and hope and we got plenty of those things.

Hook - 10-1-2008 at 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skip_Mac
Economy, What economy? Sadly my current career is dependent on commercial properties changing hands or being refinanced. Disaster for me, my subordinate laid off. Me taking weeks off without pay to help keep the company cash flow positive... Sadly those weeks cannot be translated to Baja trips without cash (sparse resource) outlay.

Perhaps I should shop my abilities back to the gold mining industry (but they are slave driving, hire and fire, typical Alta America corporations...No security there.

Mexico does look interesting. I would pose a question to any economically minded Nomads living in Baja.

That is, Can you give me a reasonable estimate of day to day living costs in your location. Oh, yes, all your individual specific conditions will be highly variable (retirement programs, medical, whether or not you could finance your residence from an USA sale of property. I am not proposing that you reveal all your financial info...But I am curious... what doesw it cost YOU ( presumably a USA citizen) to live in the Baja of Mexico.

Anyone care to comment. No Judgement, No agenda, just curious.

Gracias, Nomad Amigos.

If any of you have any problem/issue with this proposal...no problem.. I really have no agenda... Objections/Suggestion are cool.

I know a woman in San Carlos, Sonora who is living on 1100.00/month social security and she does NOT own her home. She rents. She has done this for many years. She owns a car. I dont think her social life is very active, though. Drinking and dining out is where you gotta watch it.

flyfishinPam - 10-1-2008 at 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
...
It is different in Baja!, Just talked to my Friend Alvaro{The Best Pangero Fishermand in Loreto}In my Opinion]. He and the other Pangeroas are having trouble with very few Customers.
I think that maybe some of the other Fishin Companies are having trouble also, just have not posted it.

I will let the Board know my Opinions after my trip down next week.

I understand from others that the "Time Share Scamers are geting real "Pushy on the streets of Loreto""

Is that True Pam???

If I was of the mind to make a Couple of Million in the next 5 to 10 years I still say go into the Lower Income Residential Rental Business.

Save your Cash.

Skeet

Hi there,

yes it is true there has been a slowdown in tourism here and also a cutting of flights. However with that said I am pleased that our business is up because of the fabulous fishing and I would also like to think due to our many years of excellent service. Normally September through mid March is our down season due to weather, fishing and timing. Fall is quite slow as are the weeks before the christmas holidays so we always have to prepare for the slow season because it happens every year.

there was a newspaper article in sudcaliforniano about how slow the fishing tourism season in Loreto has been. In late may and june we were the only ones working and it was strange and there was some animosity felt. The guys at the marina say "if Cuervo isn't going out there's no tourism" Cuervo is my husband and he fishes many days per year.

a long time ago when I first started the business and our finances were all based in USA i was discouraged by the fact that my bank wouldn't allow us to process credit cards for peoples trips because we are based in Mexico. I thought that would slow our growth and competitive abilities, but a good friend Lani Waller, of flyfishing fame told me that it is best not to tap into the "credit card crowd". Those that can pay for their trips up front are the ones to tap into so that's what we did and we've so far weathered a couple of recessions and 9-11 and hopefully well pull through this one too. fortunately our overhead is low and can be cut further easily if need be, also we have no debt and that helps with the stress level. our 2009 reservations look healthy as ever and we have more Europeans and Canadian clients than ever before now as well. another thing is that a tournament was recently filmed here that will be broadcast on fox sports west (Ronnie Kovach's Fishing Ventures Television) in about three weeks so that kind of promotion ought to help out. the fishing was incredible so the footage ought to be supreme.

I hesitate to hire Alvaro because of his age. In the high season my captains will often fish every single day and do afternoon or night shifts too. this is a VERY physical job and its demanding too even at my end. Because we are seasonal we gotta "make hay while the sun shines" and we do. If Alvaro can train a mid-20something guy (a mold-able age) how to run his boat, take good care of him like paying on time and a fair amount, then I will be happy to give his boat work. I'll train the new captain how to handle fly anglers, I love doing that and it would help him to get more work, also English will be a huge plus.

so in this economy like in all times my advice to Loretanos is this:

take very good care of your clients always so that they will return, they will tell their friends and the client pool will grow steadily.
understand who your clients are and offer a fair price for a product that is of good value.
always promise only what you can deliver. in this way clients will come and keep coming and then the airlines will come back too because of demand.

I have always hated the fonatur/hotel association manner of always pushing subsidized flights, it gives everyone in the industry here an incorrect sense of the real picture of tourism to Loreto and their part in servicing the clients properly.

on the cutting back in airline service, my takes are:

there are very few hotels that offer travel agents commission so the incentive to sell the Loreto destination is just not there.
the economy will restrict consumers ability to travel so even if we had planes flying in every day they wouldn´t have been full anyway.

We'll survive, Loretanos always do and if things get really bad we can always catch a fish to eat!

timeshare people? yes and they are pushy, from the Villas Palmar project, the Villas Group the ensenada blanca deal. $50K timeshares. They wear yellow polo shirts and now have an office across the street from cafe ole. they WILL accost you guaranteed especially when using the ATM or bank. also I have heard some things about their being at the airport practically kidnapping arrivals by offering them free ground transport and other stuff in exchange for going to a presentation. the first one was at the governor's cup sign ups in April. I photographed one of them and we had some conversation, the following monday that same guy chased me all the way to my sons kindergarten trying to sell. I told him "get a good look at me, don't waste my time and I won't waste yours, leave me alone I am not interested" i also told him that I will post his picture on the internet and warn others and he asked me not to do that.

:dudette:

oxxo - 10-1-2008 at 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skip_Mac
That is, Can you give me a reasonable estimate of day to day living costs in your location.

We live for about 10% to 15% less in Los Cabos (a relatively expensive part of Mexico) than a comparable lifestyle in SoCal. And I think our quality of life is much better here than in SoCal.

I think if you are looking for the lowest possible cost of living in Mexico, you need to look at the mainland.

David K - 10-1-2008 at 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dao45
David K next time you come through jerome I would love to buy you a drink
AKA Rodorado

Thanks! We heard about Jerome while in Williams... it sounded interesting so we drove through there on our way home from the Grand Canyon last November... Had a burger and beer at the Haunted Hamburger after touring the mine building...

Shark18 - 10-1-2008 at 09:13 AM

Quote:

I might agree with you that the cost of living is cheaper, but by no stretch of the imagination is the quality of life in Los Cabos better than in SoCal, even if you wanted to compare Los Cabos to a ghetto like South Central LA.

Even in South Central the water and power are always on, the mail is still delivered every day and the markets are stocked with fresh vegetables and meats. The garbage is collected once per week, all the streets are paved, the cops don't take mordida and actually investigate crimes. I'm comparing what you think is the best of Baja to the worst of SoCal. Most of SoCal is even better...and no humidity or bugs.

I'm not so sure Los Cabos is even cheaper, in the long run. If you are retired you have to forego cheap or free Medicare or VA care, because it is not available in Mexico, or travel 1,000 miles each way to see a US doctor and pay for the travel.

You are just rationalizing your own decisions by convincing yourself your life is better.

vandenberg - 10-1-2008 at 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shark18

I might agree with you that the cost of living is cheaper, but by no stretch of the imagination is the quality of life in Los Cabos better than in SoCal, even if you wanted to compare Los Cabos to a ghetto like South Central LA.

Even in South Central the water and power are always on, the mail is still delivered every day and the markets are stocked with fresh vegetables and meats. The garbage is collected once per week, all the streets are paved, the cops don't take mordida and actually investigate crimes. I'm comparing what you think is the best of Baja to the worst of SoCal. Most of SoCal is even better...and no humidity or bugs.

I'm not so sure Los Cabos is even cheaper, in the long run. If you are retired you have to forego cheap or free Medicare or VA care, because it is not available in Mexico, or travel 1,000 miles each way to see a US doctor and pay for the travel.

You are just rationalizing your own decisions by convincing yourself your life is better.

At least this way of reasoning keeps you, and many others, on the other side of the line. :biggrin:

comitan - 10-1-2008 at 09:54 AM

:bounce:

oxxo - 10-1-2008 at 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shark18You are just rationalizing your own decisions by convincing yourself your life is better.

I stand by everything I wrote in my post. It's a bit presumptuous for YOU to decide whether my quality of life is better or not.

So Shark18, where do you live full time in Baja? If life sucks in Baja, tell us how you came to that conclusion in your full time residence here. You are a full time resident here aren't you? You talk as though you know better than I what it is like to live here full time. Tell us about your experience. Or are you just a troll who wants to bash Baja? Is that your goal in life, to just go around and being a "ball buster?" Contribute something positive cabron.

Quote:

Originally posted by Shark18
I was busting Oxxo's balls for being inappropriate. so he can rationalize why he is in love with Baja?

toneart - 10-1-2008 at 10:39 AM

Hi!

Go to Bajainsider.com. In the Sept. 30 update there are two articles related to the cost of living in Baja. One of the articles gives a grocery list and compares it with identical lists from four major U.S. Cities. The premise is that living Baja is not much of a bargain anymore.

The Baja Insider tends to look like a Chamber of Commerce website in that its objective is to draw tourism and boost the local economy. Most everything is positive. (That may be a welcome attitude, but is probably delusional). I can't attest to the level of journalistic integrity but these two articles seem to attempt objectivity. So, take from it what you wish, or not.

longlegsinlapaz - 10-1-2008 at 10:52 AM

Quote:

Hmmmmmmm....In YOUR OPINION oxxo's rationalizing, but it's his life to make his own decisions for his own reasons. Quality of life is pretty subjective on an individual basis! I can't put a percentage to it, but I couldn't live in the states for what I can here. I love it here & wouldn't want to go back to the states for love nor money. This is my home!

Not sure why it it seems that CA or Southern CA frequently appears to be the common comparison factor to Baja. I'm not from CA, never lived there, from what I've seen & experienced driving through, I'll take Baja over CA any day!

I'm not a vet & too young for Medicare. Why so many seem to feel the necessity to travel to the US for medical is beyond me! There is very good medical here. You may have to search around a little to find a doctor you like, but the medical care here is better than in the US in many ways because they don't have the latest in equipment & diagnostic tools, which means they have to use one of the oldest tools know to man....their BRAIN. Here, doctors actually spend time with you & talk with you to get information & symptoms to actually diagnose, rather than run you through on a conveyor belt, handing out slips to go here for this test & then go there for that test.

So rather than assume sub-standard medical....have you TRIED it? I HAVE seen a couple doctors here I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy, but I shopped around until I found 2-3 MD's & a few specialists that I like & feel sincerely care about my health & I've stuck with them, as well as recommend them.

For me, my annual medical costs have been lower than the cost of an annual insurance policy...all but 1 out of the 9 years I've lived here.

I can't break the cost of living here down to a daily basis, but I can say that I get by fine on my $,1000 month retirement benefit. That's having tighter months than others when I pay annual premiums for house & car insurance. So it actually works out to a little under $1K per month when you take into account a couple months of the year are more than my monthly income.

Mexitron - 10-1-2008 at 11:00 AM

Economy still perking along in Fort Worth, TX--we've got lots of oil drillers, military, and agriculture as a base...houses still selling in our neighborhood at reasonable prices (perhaps that's why I've been seeing more and more California license plates--they're moving here for the cheaper housing!). But one never knows how phase shifts in the U.S. economy will affect things--and this seems to be a rather large phase shift.

Cypress - 10-1-2008 at 11:02 AM

Influenced by the US economic downturn? Immediate impact? No problems. Looking foreward to catching speckle trout, red fish and flounder down in the marsh country of the northern Gulf of Mexico this winter. Last winter in Baja was great, but the inshore fishing was sad. The rental property etc. will cost more, but it will be warm and the fish are there to be caught.

oxxo - 10-1-2008 at 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shark18
But then you went on to say that the quality of life is better. Do you really want to compare the quality of life in a seaside town like Los Cabos to a seaside town in SoCal, like Santa Barbara, Laguna Beach or La Jolla and say Los Cabos is better with a straight face?

I lived in Avila Beach for 33 years. Yes, I am saying with a straight face that my quality of life is better in Los Cabos.

Quote:

When there was a thread about Sam Botner being beat to death by Los Cabos police and dying on the jailhouse floor, drowning in his own blood, you suggested it was OK because he had traces of marijuana in his blood.

No I didn't say it was okay. You said I said it was okay. I said there was more to the story. You decided to spin that statement.

Now, I am asking you again, where do you live full time in Baja that makes you an expert on Baja? What is it you don't like about my "precious" Baja. Put up or shut up cabron.

Shark18 - 10-1-2008 at 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
There is very good medical here. You may have to search around a little to find a doctor you like, but the medical care here is better than in the US in many ways because they don't have the latest in equipment & diagnostic tools, which means they have to use one of the oldest tools know to man....their BRAIN.

Hey that's great to hear. Perhaps you would now like to explain why the cancer mortality rate in the US drops every year and in Mexico it increases every year? You have long legs, let's see you dance your way out if this.

I always enjoy it when people who post apochrypal information have to deal with published facts.

oxxo - 10-1-2008 at 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
Go to Bajainsider.com. In the Sept. 30 update there are two articles related to the cost of living in Baja. One of the articles gives a grocery list and compares it with identical lists from four major U.S. Cities. The premise is that living Baja is not much of a bargain anymore.

Interesting article, Tony. I compared the cost of the things that she is purchasing in La Paz at Sorianas, to what we pay in Los Cabos. We shop primarily at Costco, MEGA, CCC, and WalMart. We don't shop at Soriana because it tends to be more expensive on most things that we purchase. Our cost of groceries is 10% to 15% less than what she paid (not including McD's, yuck).

So I think her prices are probably accurate, but she is paying more than we do in Los Cabos because we have more competition and more selection. We live for about 10% to 15% less on day to day expenses (groceries, gasoline, restaurants, etc.) than our previous residence in California. If you figure in property taxes and home insurance and utilities, we live for probably 30% less.

oxxo - 10-1-2008 at 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shark18
Perhaps you would now like to explain why the cancer mortality rate in the US drops every year and in Mexico it increases every year?

Okay, you have made the statement, now post a link to verify your "information."

Shark18 - 10-1-2008 at 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo
No I didn't say it was okay. You said I said it was okay. I said there was more to the story. You decided to spin that statement.

This is exactly what you said:

Quote:

I think you are going to find, when all is said and done, that everyone is at fault, from perps to victim.

I think the message is very clear, don't screw with the police in Mexico. If you can't abide by that, then you probably shouldn't come here.

oxxo posted on 9-8-2008 at 04:54 PM

I did not spin anything. You clearly stated that you believed that the victim contributed to his own death.

How's that trolling business, oxxo? It's a little hard to lie when your previous posts are still floating around here.

longlegsinlapaz - 10-1-2008 at 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shark18

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
There is very good medical here. You may have to search around a little to find a doctor you like, but the medical care here is better than in the US in many ways because they don't have the latest in equipment & diagnostic tools, which means they have to use one of the oldest tools know to man....their BRAIN.

I said many ways not all. Why would I want to explain cancer mortality rates USA vs Mexico? You obviously already have the data at your fingertips. Obviously cancer has not been one of my medical issues, so I won't be dancing on your command.

Can I assume you meant apocryphal? Since I was relating my own personal experience, I don't consider my comments/experiences to be unauthenticated.

Diagnostic equipment is a valuable tool in many instances; I personally have yet to have a problem here where verbal diagnosis, and on occasion equipment on hand wasn't sufficient. That's not to say it couldn't conceivably be possible in the future; if so, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

comitan - 10-1-2008 at 01:11 PM

Shark

You lump Medicare and VA together that doesn't compare, Medicare your paying premiums and I don't think its worth the trip, the Va I've had some Major,Major work done there and have to make the run twice a year for us its like a vacation and a time to do extra shopping. As far as quality of living it doesn't compare to anywhere I've lived in the states CALIF. I'm sure your problem with bugs is because you where beach camping that can be a problem but living away from the beach its no more of a problem that I have experienced living all over calif. I do live in PARADISE and sir; you cannot dispute that because you are not me.

toneart - 10-1-2008 at 01:17 PM

Oxxo,

I think your first hand experience is the kind of information people are asking for. Thank you.

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo

Quote:

oxxo - 10-1-2008 at 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
I think your first hand experience is the kind of information people are asking for.

Okay, rather than guesswork, here are the facts.

We went to Costco at lunch today for our weekly hotdog (man cannot live by tacos alone, but it wouldn't be bad to try). I didn't have the grocery list that was published on Baja Insider so I did it from memory. I remembered 6 out of the 11 grocery items, so not too bad.

Here are the prices today 10/01/08 at Costco for the following items (with prices in La Paz in parenthesis):

eggs - 1.63/doz. (2.20)
hamburger - 2.83/lb (3.89)
milk - 3.68/gal (4.60)
bread - 1.64/loaf (2.50)
bacon - 2.65/lb (6.89)
lettuce - .92/head (1.29)

If you total these 6 items up, I would pay 13.35 at Costco in San Lucas and 21.37 at Soriana in La Paz. That equals 38% less than La Paz. I was being too conservative in my previous estimates about how much we save.

Now if I take those 6 items and compare them to the US locations in the article, Cabo is approximately equal to the lowest priced city in the US, Boston. So I get Boston's low prices without having to put up with a Boston winter (yes I did spend part of a winter there).

I my opinion, La Paz is a much more expensive city for daily expenses than Los Cabos. However, that could change soon because there is a WalMart under construction and I hear rumors about a Costco location in La Paz.

Actually, I think we live for much less than 15% compared to SoCal, but I would really to have to spend some time to prove it. I'm just happy here with a better quality of life to boot!

Cypress - 10-1-2008 at 02:15 PM

Baja isn't a bargain by any stretch of the imagination. Factor in all the misc. :bounce:

Osprey - 10-1-2008 at 02:28 PM

Cypress, sorry pal, you are wrong again. I just bought a new misc. in Los Barriles for 3 pesos. It's just like one I bought in Malibu recently for $122.86.

Stickers - 10-1-2008 at 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by morgaine7
One of the many positive aspects of my quality of life here is freedom from the "culture of fear" that has become so prevalent in the US ... and from people telling me how to live. Funny, I don't rely on "published facts" to determine whether or not I'm enjoying myself.

Kate

You are right Kate and I think simple freedoms are worth more than cheap groceries.

.

Cypress - 10-1-2008 at 02:36 PM

Osprey, Congrats! Go for it! :biggrin:

dtbushpilot - 10-1-2008 at 03:19 PM

We live in Buena Vista BCS about 6 months of the year a month or so at a time. Generally speaking, I find that it is a little more expensive there than at home in New Mexigo for groceries, eating out etc. If you eat at the places where the locals eat it is a little less, if you want "gringo stuff" it's a little more. We also find ourselves traveling farther and on worse roads for "serious shopping" than we would up North. I don't have as much confidence in the local medical services as I would in the US but I haven't had any expierience with it either. I have heard a lot of good things about the local clinic. My Mother did use the clinic in Loreto for an alergic reaction and was very impressed. I'm sure I will find out for myself sooner or later. If you compare accomodations (Baja Cactus aside) motels in the US are usually nicer for what you pay, I didn't say always I said usually.

We love Baja and always start planning our next trip down before we even get home but if I could only live in one place it would certainly be in the USA.........I'm a lucky guy, I get to have both......

Someone once told me "I'm a lucky guy, and the harder I work the luckier I get"...he was right....dt

Shark18 - 10-1-2008 at 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo
Actually, I think we live for much less than 15% compared to SoCal, but I would really to have to spend some time to prove it. I'm just happy here with a better quality of life to boot!

OK, this shows just how far removed from the reality you guys are. I am sitting here with this week's Stater Bros. and Orchards ads for San Diego county. Let me show you how far from the reality you are:

eggs - $1.89/dozen for extra large
hamburger - $2.29/lb
milk - $2.60/gal
bread - $1.67/loaf Oroweat
bacon - $2.50/lb
lettuce - $.79 head (Orchards)

So, the total cost would be $1.61 -- or 12% -- less than your Costco cost. Anybody in San Diego can look up the ads and verify my numbers.

Let me add something more to the equation. Almost all the non-food items it takes to run a household in Mexico costs more: light bulbs, toilet flappers, laundry soap, etc. And, then you get to add the 15% IVA tax on top of that. There is even a 15% IVA tax on services in Mexico, not NOB. The IVA in California is only one-half of Mexico's.

Oh, and by the way NOB, the water is always on, as in the power and telephone and internet. The mail is delivered right to your door, you don't have to pay a monthly fee for a mail service. You also don't pay the annual fee to renew your FM3/2 or the fideicomiso fees, if you own a home. Yes, water and power are cheaper in Mexico, when it is turned on.

Enjoy your "quality of life."

BajaGringo - 10-1-2008 at 03:37 PM

We do...

dtbushpilot - 10-1-2008 at 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shark18

Quote:

Shark,
While I agree with a number of things that you say, I sure don't care for the way you say it. Almost makes me feel guilty for agreeing.

I guess you won't be my neighbor either and yes, we do enjoy our quality of life...in both places, thank you....dt

tripledigitken - 10-1-2008 at 03:56 PM

Sharks,

This thread is about the effect of US economics on Nomads. Awhile back you said you have been retired 10 years, impressive given you DOB in your profile of 1959, how has the current ecomomic climate effected you?

As a fellow resident of SD County I will say that the gas prices have put a dent in our budget. Each week I notice another company closing its doors, fortunatly not our employers!

Ken

elizabeth - 10-1-2008 at 03:59 PM

Quote:

Oh, and by the way NOB, the water is always on, as in the power and telephone and internet. The mail is delivered right to your door, you don't have to pay a monthly fee for a mail service. You also don't pay the annual fee to renew your FM3/2 or the fideicomiso fees, if you own a home. Yes, water and power are cheaper in Mexico, when it is turned on.

Enjoy your "quality of life."

I will, thank you.

But, a little clarification...I don't get mail delivered to my door in the US...they don't do that in a lot of smaller towns...I have a post office box. The power is on most all the time, however, it goes off from time to time, once for 11 days. The phone lines normally work, but sometimes when there is a lot of rain, they don't. The annual fideicomiso fee and property taxes are infintesimal compared to my US property tax. I don't really mind my electricity going off, I plug in the generator if it's a long time, or do without if it's a short time. I rather enjoy having to go to town to pick up my mail and run into friends and neighbors.

I guess one the reasons I feel my quality of life is better in Mexico, and why I'm working as hard as I can to make it full time, is that the small stuff, like always having electricity and mail delivery is not essential to my well being.

fishbuck - 10-1-2008 at 04:22 PM

Comparing "Quality of Life" in Baja And SoCal is apples and oranges. They are completely different. But that is the point is it not?
I live in Costa Mesa about a mile from the Newport Pier. I couldn't imagine a better place to live anywhere in the world.
But I also love my little fishcamp in San Quintin.
It's Costa Mesa/Newport 100 years ago. I love it there for it's primitive beauty. But it's an 11 mile drive to the grocery store.
In Costa Mesa I walk about 100 yards to the grocery store. If I want a steak I walk next door to the Outback.
If I want a steak in Baja... there isn't one!
I have a great job in SoCal that pays good money. In Baja... there isn't one.
In baja I have a waterfront fishcamp someday to be a casita and my own private boat launch and runway. The richest guy in SoCal doesn't have that!

Manzanas y Naranjas! :cool:

[Edited on 10-1-2008 by fishbuck]

msteve1014 - 10-1-2008 at 04:40 PM

My wife and I are still working full time. No slowdown yet. I worry that there might be one coming, but it is too late to stop now. Maybe we will have to move to Baja and wait it out. :spingrin:

elizabeth - 10-1-2008 at 04:50 PM

The biggest effect on me is the difficulty in selling my house, which is the only thing I have to do to get to Loreto full time. Even folks who have shown serious interest have become skittish in the last couple of weeks.

fishbuck - 10-1-2008 at 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by msteve1014
My wife and I are still working full time. No slowdown yet. I worry that there might be one coming, but it is too late to stop now. Maybe we will have to move to Baja and wait it out. :spingrin:

Ya, I kind of hoping for a layoff too. I'll collect unemployment for a while and start my casita.
But I'm in the warplane business and business is good right now. We just sold a couple of plane to NATO today.
"Give war a chance" as we say at the good ole warplane factory.
But I'll take a little layoff/vacation if it comes! :lol:

[Edited on 10-2-2008 by fishbuck]

oxxo - 10-1-2008 at 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shark18
OK, this shows just how far removed from the reality you guys are. I am sitting here with this week's Stater Bros. and Orchards ads for San Diego county. Let me show you how far from the reality you are:

So, the total cost would be $1.61 -- or 12% -- less than your Costco cost. Anybody in San Diego can look up the ads and verify my numbers.

Ah, so you want to shop specials. We have specials here too and we take advantage of them. I only went to Costco today, to compare their regular prices. What are the regular prices of those items at your stores?

YOU might want to contact the Baja Insider and tell them their article sucks with incorrect information for SD because YOU are the expert.

Now let's see how much gas did you have to use to drive around and get all those specials? And how much is gas in SD right now? Oh, the gas here is around 2.50/gal (87 octane) So us guys do know what we're talking about.

Quote:

Let me add something more to the equation. Almost all the non-food items it takes to run a household in Mexico costs more: light bulbs, toilet flappers, laundry soap, etc. And, then you get to add the 15% IVA tax on top of that. There is even a 15% IVA tax on services in Mexico, not NOB. The IVA in California is only one-half of Mexico's.

Well you certainly have proven YOU know what you're talking about.......the IVA taxes in Baja are 10%. Most of the prices you say are higher on things, INCLUDE the 10% tax. Take your SD prices and add 8.5% (or whatever it is) sales tax and then compare prices. Some things are higher some are lower.

Quote:

I've never had a problem with my utilities here. But of course, YOU wouldn't know that because YOU don't live here. YOU are the expert on living in Baja and YOU don't even live here.

Quote:

Enjoy your "quality of life."

Yes, I do and it's even better without someone like YOU, the expert on Baja living here.

By the way, where are those links to your cancer statistics you promised? Yeah, I thought so, a "ball busting" troll.

comitan - 10-1-2008 at 05:39 PM

What OXXO said a thousand times more.

BajaGringo - 10-1-2008 at 05:40 PM

ditto

Shark18 - 10-1-2008 at 06:05 PM

Oxxo:
A half-dozen other Nomads -- Nomads with mucho stars under their names -- have said right here on this thread that La Paz is more expensive that SoCal. You need to stop trying to negotiate reality.

Come to terms, dahling. Come to terms.

oxxo - 10-1-2008 at 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shark18
A half-dozen other Nomads -- Nomads with mucho stars under their names -- have said right here on this thread that La Paz is more expensive that SoCal. You need to stop trying to negotiate reality.

I don't live in La Paz, I live in Los Cabos. You are apparently unfamiliar with Baja. Get out a map and find where La Paz is and where Los Cabos is. They are around 120 miles apart.

Where are those links to your cancer statistics cabron?

Shark18 - 10-1-2008 at 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo

Quote:

I don't live in La Paz, I live in Los Cabos. You are apparently unfamiliar with Baja. Get out a map and find where La Paz is and where Los Cabos is. They are around 120 miles apart.

Excuse me, oxxo, Would you like me to repost your message where you said, just today, that Los Cabos is the most expensive city in Baja Sur?

So, let's go through the logic. A half-dozen Nomads say Baja in more expensive than SoCal. Oxxo says that Los Cabos is the most expensive city in Baja Sur.

Come to terms, dahling. Come to terms.

msteve1014 - 10-1-2008 at 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck

My wife and I are still working full time. No slowdown yet. I worry that there might be one coming, but it is too late to stop now. Maybe we will have to move to Baja and wait it out. :spingrin:

[Edited on 10-2-2008 by fishbuck]

I work for one of the big oil companies, I dont think they are going to be cutting back anytime soon either

comitan - 10-1-2008 at 06:35 PM

well sharks you've had one person from La Paz saying she lives on $1,000 a month I'm just a little over that, can you live on a $1000 a month in So. Cal.? by the way, the things you have been posting, it shows you really know nothing about living down here...............

fishbuck - 10-1-2008 at 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by msteve1014

Quote:

[Edited on 10-2-2008 by fishbuck]

I work for one of the big oil companies, I dont think they are going to be cutting back anytime soon either

If I get layed off I'll try to get a job at the refinery or the marine terminal. It looks a little dirty but pays well.
And ya, I was thinking that they won't be slowing down much.

oxxo - 10-1-2008 at 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shark18
Excuse me, oxxo, Would you like me to repost your message where you said, just today, that Los Cabos is the most expensive city in Baja Sur?

Yes, I would like to repost it

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo
We live for about 10% to 15% less in Los Cabos (a relatively expensive part of Mexico) than a comparable lifestyle in SoCal. And I think our quality of life is much better here than in SoCal.

I think if you are looking for the lowest possible cost of living in Mexico, you need to look at the mainland.

Where is the link to your cancer statistics, cabron?

Quote:

Originally posted by Shark18
I have the links, oxxo. Now, before I post them, what are you going to do with them?

Shark18 - 10-1-2008 at 08:38 PM

Oh boy, dueling quotes. Here's some more:

Quote:

toneart 10-1-2008 at 10:39 AM

Go to Bajainsider.com. In the Sept. 30 update there are two articles related to the cost of living in Baja. One of the articles gives a grocery list and compares it with identical lists from four major U.S. Cities. The premise is that living Baja is not much of a bargain anymore.

Cypress 10-1-2008 at 02:15 PM

Baja isn't a bargain by any stretch of the imagination. Factor in all the misc

dtbushpilot 10-1-2008 at 03:19 PM

We live in Buena Vista BCS about 6 months of the year a month or so at a time. Generally speaking, I find that it is a little more expensive there than at home in New Mexigo for groceries, eating out etc. If you eat at the places where the locals eat it is a little less, if you want "gringo stuff" it's a little more. We also find ourselves traveling farther and on worse roads for "serious shopping" than we would up North.

Come to terms, dahlings. Come to terms.

Shark18 - 10-1-2008 at 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
well sharks you've had one person from La Paz saying she lives on $1,000 a month I'm just a little over that, can you live on a $1000 a month in So. Cal.?

Well, I don't know without some more information. We would have to match facilities, terms and lifestyles. Have that one person provide the following information and then I can answer your question:

1. How many square feet is the home?
2. Is it on a paved street?
3. Is there a trash pick-up service or do you have to take the trash to the dump yourself?
4. Does the house have indoor plumbing? High speed internet connection?
5. Does that person rent or own? And who pays for the repairs?
6. Does that person perpare all his/her meals at home, or eat out? How often does he/she eat out? Does he/she eat beans and tacos or steak and potatoes?
7. Does that person carry health insurance, or just take his/her chances?
8. How much does he/she pay for health insurance?
9. Is the home airconditioned?
10. Does that person have a monthly mail service? How much?
11. How much does that person spend each year to travel to the US for necessary services, like medical exams?
12. Is the house connected to a city water supply or is water delivered by truck?

When you can provide me with all that information. I'll be happy to answer your question.

You DO want an apples-to-apples comparison, don't ya?

Shark18 - 10-1-2008 at 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo
Where is the link to your cancer statistics, cabron?

Oh yes. I forgot you don't know how to Google.

http://progressreport.cancer.gov/highlights.asp

http://www2.eluniversal.com.mx/pls/impreso/noticia.html?id_n...

http://scielo.unam.mx/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=...

http://www.mex.ops-oms.org/documentos/publicaciones/hacia/a0...

http://www.salud.carso.org/docum/hoja_%20datos_cama.pdf

Disfrutele, baboso.

BajaNuts - 10-1-2008 at 09:34 PM

well, shark18,
Thanks for NOT READING one of my original posts...
"I'm more interested in first hand replies than links to political sites or political rhetoric. Are you personally worried about US economics and how has it directly affected you/your finances?"

This is not a question about which is better, and you seem to be intent on proving why SoCal is better.
That is for your own thread.
My question is how the US economy is influencing Nomands wherever they may be. If you have already answered that question, thank you...(i kinda got lost in all the grocery lists

)
If you haven't answered how it affects you PERSONALLY, please do so and leave the rest if it out of the discussion.
Thanks BN1

fishbuck - 10-1-2008 at 09:41 PM

I was at the Pyrimid Resort about 2 weeks ago. My girl and I were almost the only ones there. It was like having my own private oceanfront mansion. I'm not sure why there wasn't more people. Maybe the economy, maybe the horror stories form TJ.
But it was very nice having it to ourselves. I would imagine much of Baja is like that right now.

BajaGringo - 10-1-2008 at 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck
I was at the Pyrimid Resort about 2 weeks ago. My girl and I were almost the only ones there. It was like having my own private oceanfront mansion. I'm not sure why there wasn't more people. Maybe the economy, maybe the horror stories form TJ.
But it was very nice having it to ourselves. I would imagine much of Baja is like that right now.

Talk to anybody working in major tourism destination and they will tell you this has been a very bad year. Folks NOB generally aren't spending money to travel anywhere. Good friends of ours who have been working in Vegas since the early 80's tell us this was the worst summer ever since they've been there. It is expected to be an even harder winter. I suspect that the economy is affecting folks plans for wherever they may go - be it Baja or Timbuktu.

Another important point if you want to compare is to factor in the cost of housing. I know not all of you are from California but it is our closest comparative NOB market. Whether you rent or buy, you can save some serious dough south of the border. If you do buy, you will also save a lot more on property taxes as well as services (maid/gardener/plumber/mechanic) in general. That will buy you a lot of fish tacos.

I still say that the compelling reason to come/live in Baja is the quality of life that you seek and that is something only you know how to answer. I find that folks who move down here just to save money tend to be the ones who enjoy it the least.

YMMV...

Hook - 10-2-2008 at 06:40 AM

With the faltering economy, fewer Nomads are heading south anymore.

As a result, they have more time to sit at their computers and keep posts (like Wont you help out Nomads or Are you Scared of TJ) going well past their deserved time. Posts are dissected down into millimeters of content classification with personal examples and defenses offered from the past 40 years of some Nomads experiences. Not that 40 years ago has any bearing on today, mind you.

ACTUAL travel in Baja is down................but VIRTUAL travel in Baja is WAY up.

Or is that La Baja...........or, the Baja.............da Baja?...........Lower California?............El Norte?...........BCS, er, Baja California Sur?

gnukid - 10-2-2008 at 09:00 AM

While I am sure that tourism is down, as there are almost no visible tourists in the region, I hear non-stop talk from regulars who are leaving for Baja daily. You know the type, van camper, surfer/windsurfer/kiter. It seems every person I speak to is leaving to Baja from the north in coming days. Its going to be another super fun winter for those who can make it to the beach.

This is a great time to go camping in Baja, but no not for tourists.

OK, I'll bite

Dave - 10-2-2008 at 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
I find that folks who move down here just to save money tend to be the ones who enjoy it the least.

Name another reason. :rolleyes:

gnukid - 10-2-2008 at 10:58 AM

My Mom is a doctor and she says that many cases of depression are caused by diet. Nutritional neglect and imbalance causes chemical imbalances in the brain which cause mood swings. Eat a well balanced diet and you will feel better (regardless of the economy and your geography).

Buen provecho!

pacside - 10-2-2008 at 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shark18

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo
Cabron18, retire to Porterville, you'll be much happier there.

Oh, by the way, the greens fees are $65 here. I hear they are $260 in Los Cabos in the high season.

Location, Location, Location....$65 bucks for green fees...those deals can only be had in...well shall we say not in high demand places.

The point isn't that folks are living on 1100/mo or so it is that they are able to do this in a beautiful location and I admire them for their ingenuity. Also, many retired folks downsize and don't want the hassle of managing a huge house and property. I'm not even retired and I don't want the hassle.

As far as the economy...doing ok...govt still buying software...seems like govt is only one who has money.

What I can't stand are the property taxes and prop 13 here in CA. I understand why it was passed but someone next door is paying 10% of what i'm paying and that just doesn't seem fair. All the insurance fees for home, car, health and the way the academics are becoming so high pressured makes living in baja make sense. Not to mention all the parcel taxes passed and bond measures. Seems in CA every election our property tax goes up because everyone votes to raise taxes.

If one is smart, picks a great location, either rents or buys, one can live cheaper in baja with a higher quality of life. Property tax alone is worth it. OK just my 2c. Back to work.

pacside

Don Alley - 10-2-2008 at 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elizabeth

Now...can we get back to the original question?

[Edited on 10-3-2008 by elizabeth]

OK.

Right now it looks like my paper loses will not be realized for a couple of years. Even then, short of a depression and/or a massive devaluation of the dollar, I don't see any major changes in lifestyle due to economic circumstances. I think we'll get by. I worry more for my children and their circumstances in a tougher economy.

Today I listened to some pundits expound on how falling housing prices are at the root of our current economic problems. I disagree; there have to be other problems if we are dependent on 10% annual increases in home values to sustain our economy. Perhaps the slump in sales will result in more affordable housing north of the border, and slow the mad rush of development and the associated dramatic rise in real estate prices in BCS.

There will be challenges for those in our Loreto community who rely on foreign spending, but I believe those that offer great service with intelligent marketing will continue to grow and prosper, at the expense of less capable competitors.

BajaNuts - 10-2-2008 at 09:38 PM

Thanks Elizabeth for getting the post back on line.............

speaking of online, our IP server was down all day today until about 6:00pm. OMG!!!!

I did not have internet access for a whole 12 hours!!! My, how things up here in the good ol' US of A have gone in the TOILET! MAN, my internet was GONE for a day! It's like I was living in a 3rd world country like MEXICO!....oh wait.....that happens all the time in Mexico, and GUESS WHAT---it didn't bother me today when the internet was down and it doesn't bother me when my electricity goes out for 3-7 DAYS in subzero temperatures.

Minnows18 sounds like he doesn't have the adventurous Baja spirit that seems to be a prerequisite for travel and living in Mexico. He's more secure staying in Calif protecting all his precious possessions and impressing the neighbors. A lot of us don't feel the need to impress others. We'd rather relax, feeling somewhat relieved to have paid the bills for another month with a little left over, watch the sunset with our wonderful friends and family and enjoy a Pacifico looking to the future with hope. A future that we hope involves a WHOLE LOTTA BAJA! maybe even full-time.....

**18, please keep your comments on this post to how the economy has impacted you and your family's financial situation and start your own post for all other comments or comparisons.

Thanks again to those who have responded to the original question. We are self employed and the business's future is always a concern for us. just wanted to see how others are feeling

steviecroc - 10-2-2008 at 10:07 PM

Our business , electric vehicle controllers is down this year, what with high fuel prices don't make much sense. Cheryl is taking a 3 month job with her old / retired from 7 years ago employer so we can have some extra travel $$. Our kids are living pretty lean with the fishing guiding business very slow here in N.CA so we help them as needed. Want to see Ascuncion and San Roque come January-March next year so am working on getting "old whitey" and the boat ready for the trip. Looking to meeting Shari and family and learning more spanish.

k-rico - 10-3-2008 at 08:07 AM

As far as the cost of living in Baja, housing is what makes it a good deal. A few years ago I paid $164,000 for a brand new house (not a condo) with white water ocean views, private gated community with 7/24 security, twice weekly trash pickup, green areas for the kids to play, underground utilities. I can hear the surf at night. My property taxes are $140 a year, plus $500 for fidi fees. A comparable house in San Diego where I also live would have been around $600,000 with $6,000 annual taxes, perhaps more because of the oceanfront aspect.

My plans may change because of the drop in the stock market. I am planning on buying a winter home further south on the mainland in a year or two. That may be delayed.

Cajones - 10-3-2008 at 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
As far as the cost of living in Baja, housing is what makes it a good deal. A few years ago I paid $164,000 for a brand new house (not a condo) with white water ocean views, private gated community with 7/24 security, twice weekly trash pickup, green areas for the kids to play, underground utilities. I can hear the surf at night. My property taxes are $140 a year, plus $500 for fidi fees. A comparable house in San Diego where I also live would have been around $600,000 with $6,000 annual taxes, perhaps more because of the oceanfront aspect.

I'm not sure you are giving a fair comparison. Services are bundled differently NOB. Don't you pay a monthly HOA dues for your security, trash, park, etc? What do you pay a month for all those services at your home?

Trash collection is bundled with your property taxes in San Diego, as is the security (police), public parks, etc.

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