BajaNomad - Medical Decisions in Baja

Medical Decisions in Baja

Pescador - 10-5-2008 at 02:47 PM

The topic of what kind of medical services in Baja has been thrown about for quite some time but due to recency of our experiences it may be relevant to share what we went through so that someone else may be more prepared. I understand that our situation of living close to Santa Rosalia may be different than those who live in areas such as La Paz, Cabo San Lucas, or even Tijuana and Ensenada.
We decided to leave early this spring because my wife was exhibiting some problems with high blood pressure and elevated pulse rate. We had seen a number of doctors in our area and they all came up with different diagnosis and treatments and since she had some family history problems in that area, we finally felt it necessary to return to the United States to get more accurate diagnosis and treatment. Thank heavens we chose to do that since when they gave her a cat scan and discovered advanced lung cancer. Even though that was a terrible diagnosis and we literally felt like the bottom had dropped out of our lives, thank goodness we live in an area with some of the best and most modern treatment options available. The radiation machine used by the radiation oncology department is one of a handful available in the United States and certainly not available in foreign countries like Mexico or Canada. All of the other machines from CT Scans to PET Scans are of the same modernity and cutting edge technology.
Now the purpose of my tale is not to talk about how fortunate we are to have the modern physicians, specialists, and machinery, but the fact that if we had delayed any longer while we continued to consult physicians in our area of Mexico, it could have proven fatal. The oncologist indicated that if the tumor had gone unchecked another for another month or two, that it would have been pretty much untreatable.
We still do not know what the final outcome is at this stage of treatment but so far things certainly look good. If the next PET Scan looks good we hope to be out of here and back to Baja by Thanksgiving, with frequent returns for continuing monitoring about ever 3 or 4 months, but at least we get to "come home"

DianaT - 10-5-2008 at 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
The topic of what kind of medical services in Baja has been thrown about for quite some time but due to recency of our experiences it may be relevant to share what we went through so that someone else may be more prepared. I understand that our situation of living close to Santa Rosalia may be different than those who live in areas such as La Paz, Cabo San Lucas, or even Tijuana and Ensenada.
We decided to leave early this spring because my wife was exhibiting some problems with high blood pressure and elevated pulse rate. We had seen a number of doctors in our area and they all came up with different diagnosis and treatments and since she had some family history problems in that area, we finally felt it necessary to return to the United States to get more accurate diagnosis and treatment. Thank heavens we chose to do that since when they gave her a cat scan and discovered advanced lung cancer. Even though that was a terrible diagnosis and we literally felt like the bottom had dropped out of our lives, thank goodness we live in an area with some of the best and most modern treatment options available. The radiation machine used by the radiation oncology department is one of a handful available in the United States and certainly not available in foreign countries like Mexico or Canada. All of the other machines from CT Scans to PET Scans are of the same modernity and cutting edge technology.
Now the purpose of my tale is not to talk about how fortunate we are to have the modern physicians, specialists, and machinery, but the fact that if we had delayed any longer while we continued to consult physicians in our area of Mexico, it could have proven fatal. The oncologist indicated that if the tumor had gone unchecked another for another month or two, that it would have been pretty much untreatable.
We still do not know what the final outcome is at this stage of treatment but so far things certainly look good. If the next PET Scan looks good we hope to be out of here and back to Baja by Thanksgiving, with frequent returns for continuing monitoring about ever 3 or 4 months, but at least we get to "come home"

My best wishes to your wife for a complete recovery. Glad you did not wait any longer!

Diane

Cajones - 10-5-2008 at 03:14 PM

Sorry to hear about your wife. I really hope things turn out OK for her. Was she ever a smoker?

I was just reading here on another thread the other day that somebody in La Paz -- longlegsinlapaz , maybe?-- was saying that the medical care in Baja is better because the doctors do not rely upon the fancy equipment, but use their brains.

I think your story really illustrates how people let their perceptions sway their view of reality...even to the point of killing themselves over it. Kind of like the 200+ people who refused to abandon Padre Island for Hurricane Ike, and who are now rotting in the swamps.

What your wife has probably couldn't even be detetected until it was way too late, with the kind of equipment you'll find in Baja. I think this goes to show the people who like to beat the drums about Baja, and rationalize why they are there, the need to take it down a few notches. Somebody is going to get hurt, or even killed, listening to those yahoos.

Just my opinion.

k-rico - 10-5-2008 at 03:45 PM

Pescador,

I have a question. Were there any other symptoms like breathing problems or coughing? You said advanced lung cancer and "the" tumor. Would the usual chest x-ray have uncovered the problem?

Best of luck.

bajajudy - 10-5-2008 at 03:46 PM

Pescador
Quite a scary situation. Glad that you got help for your wife and I, too, hope that she will continue to respond well to treatment.
Take good care of her so you can get back to Baja soon.

bill erhardt - 10-5-2008 at 05:02 PM

Jim...... Glad your wife got into treatment as soon as she did, and I hope you are both back to eat your turkey in Baja Sur.

woody with a view - 10-5-2008 at 05:02 PM

we're all pullling for Mrs. Pescador.

Best of luck!!! :saint:

DrTom - 10-5-2008 at 05:18 PM

most of the more affluent mexicans that live in los cabos, go to mexico city or guadalahara for their own medical care. most likely cause theres teaching facilities there that have good medicine. there is definitely tiers of quality in practive whether its human, veterinary or dental medicine. now it is getting better there as some dr's are starting to move from mexico city to los cabos to have a more laid back lifestyle, but in general, if you really have a problem, get back to the us/canada.....where the infrastructure is in place to deal with more significant problems. in veterinary medicine its even more extreme, but then people dont expect the same level of care for their pets as they do for themselves, but that is changing especially where i practice.....i have to practice better medicine than is available for humans, in my practice because of the demographics/competition ....

longlegsinlapaz - 10-5-2008 at 05:34 PM

Pescador, I'm relieved that you knew when it was time to take your wife to the states for better diagnostic & treatment equipment & I too am pulling for her speedy & full recovery!

Osprey - 10-5-2008 at 06:11 PM

Pescador, you are one of my favorite Nomads. Hope your wife has an easy, full recovery. As to medical services/equipment in Baja California: Blood work, SAT, MRIs, Sonograms, Xrays and hundreds of other testing procedures one would seek out with professional medical prognocis anywhere are adequate in major hospital settings in Baja California and most Nomads know that -- from TJ to Cabo there are competent doctors and modern testing equipment to assist them. The Mayo Clinic it's not but it's close, it's TLC, it's affordable. If you really, really need to go to Switzerland for special treatment for Wilt Chamberland disease you should not try that at home or in Baja California and I would think all Nomads know that too. If you need cheap, reliable, quick, intermediate medical care think of Mexico --- hundreds of thousands of gringos do. (daily)

longlegsinlapaz - 10-5-2008 at 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cajones
I was just reading here on another thread the other day that somebody in La Paz -- longlegsinlapaz , maybe?-- was saying that the medical care in Baja is better because the doctors do not rely upon the fancy equipment, but use their brains.

I think your story really illustrates how people let their perceptions sway their view of reality...even to the point of killing themselves over it. Kind of like the 200+ people who refused to abandon Padre Island for Hurricane Ike, and who are now rotting in the swamps.

What your wife has probably couldn't even be detetected until it was way too late, with the kind of equipment you'll find in Baja. I think this goes to show the people who like to beat the drums about Baja, and rationalize why they are there, the need to take it down a few notches. Somebody is going to get hurt, or even killed, listening to those yahoos.

Just my opinion.

Cajones, as this "yahoo" explained to you or maybe Shark18's response to my post on that other thread, I was commenting on my experiences & admittedly not addressing catastrophic illness such as cancer. Without going back for a direct quote, I believe I qualified it with an "in many cases" or something to that effect; I can guarantee that I never stated at all, for anything, under any circumstances, as you seem to be implying.

Thankfully, Pescador & his wife are smart enough to make their own personal decisions rather than trusting anything I or any other "yahoo" posted. You might want to give other Nomads some credit for not all following the herd mentality! Some people actually have the ability & intelligence to sift through information/experiences presented & make their own personal decisions.

Udo - 10-5-2008 at 06:34 PM

Pescador,
My prayers are with you and your wife.
Assuming you are in the US, is there anything I can do to help both of you?

Bajagypsy - 10-5-2008 at 07:15 PM

Our thoughts are with Mr & Mrs Pescador. We wish you the best. Thank you for sharing your story with us.

Timo1 - 10-5-2008 at 08:31 PM

Pescador
ALL of us nomads are behind your wife and yourself in this
tIM

greybaby - 10-5-2008 at 09:24 PM

The health care system in Mexico is one of the main reasons we would not consider retiring there. When we first moved to Ensenada in 1999 we were convinced we could get our care there and all would be well. Having worked for years in medicine, it soon became clear that the quality just is not there. My husband was admitted to a hospital in Ensenada overnight for an irregular heartrate and it was amazing how little (almost none) equipment was available. They do the best they can with the resources they have but when it comes right down to it, though our system is flawed in the US, the care itself is hard to beat. The technology alone is incredible and continues to advance.

We decided it would be unfair to our kids to reach the point in our lives (as much as we LOVE Baja) to retire there and then have them figure out how to take care of us. Watching our parents die during the time we lived there convinced us we may be ready to die - but the process is what our families have to deal with - and it's usually not all that simple. So, what started out as pretty idealistic acceptance of the lifestyle we wanted to adapt to living among the people we so love, made us realize we have options and shouldn't be afraid to exercise them when necessary. During the time we lived there, we just made it a point to get our "routine" evaluations done when we were North of the border.

I am so pleased to hear that Pesador's wife has received the correct diagnosis as well as treatment for her lung cancer. Usually by the time patients exhibit symptoms, it has been around for awhile, thus making it more difficult to treat. Get well soon and return to the land you obviously love.

Cajones - 10-5-2008 at 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
Cajones, as this "yahoo" explained to you or maybe Shark18's response to my post on that other thread, I was commenting on my experiences & admittedly not addressing catastrophic illness such as cancer. Without going back for a direct quote, I believe I qualified it with an "in many cases" or something to that effect; I can guarantee that I never stated at all, for anything, under any circumstances, as you seem to be implying.

Well, you got me curious and since I was just speaking from memory before, I went back and found exactly what you said, which was:

Quote:

I'm not a vet & too young for Medicare. Why so many seem to feel the necessity to travel to the US for medical is beyond me! There is very good medical here. You may have to search around a little to find a doctor you like, but the medical care here is better than in the US in many ways because they don't have the latest in equipment & diagnostic tools, which means they have to use one of the oldest tools know to man....their BRAIN. Here, doctors actually spend time with you & talk with you to get information & symptoms to actually diagnose, rather than run you through on a conveyor belt, handing out slips to go here for this test & then go there for that test.

So rather than assume sub-standard medical....have you TRIED it? I HAVE seen a couple doctors here I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy, but I shopped around until I found 2-3 MD's & a few specialists that I like & feel sincerely care about my health & I've stuck with them, as well as recommend them.

It appears you have very selective memory. You specifically said the opposite of your recollection. You specifically said,"Why so many seem to feel the necessity to travel to the US for medical is beyond me!" And now you are saying that people should use their judgement and head back to NOB.

You also specifically said that medical care in La Paaz was better than in the US, towit: "the medical care here is better than in the US in many ways because they don't have the latest in equipment & diagnostic tools, which means they have to use one of the oldest tools know to man....their BRAIN."

You are being a revisionist. Read what you said. You really were being the yahoo. Sorry if that offends you. If Pescador had actually listened to your advice, he'd be a widower. You ought to just accept the fact that you really do not know what you are talking about and are giving out really bad advice. Somebody is going to die listening to you. You are downright dangerous.

Skipjack Joe - 10-5-2008 at 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
We still do not know what the final outcome is at this stage of treatment but so far things certainly look good.

I'm so glad to hear this!

Marika has been on our minds often these last months.

nevadacitynurse - 10-6-2008 at 08:41 AM

My prayers are with Mrs. Pescador. A positive attitude is a huge piece of the battle with cancer...based on my experience. I, like k-rico, am interested to know if there were other symptoms...you don't need to name them, but "uncontrolled high blood pressure" is different than high blood pressure that readily responds to meds. Doctors do not usually send a patient to those types of tests without a reason...there had to be more than simply high blood pressure. My experience has been with the medical care in Loreto, which is limited only because of lack of some types of diagnostic tests. We do have the basics and the doctors know when it's time to move on to a larger medical facility in either La Paz...or elsewhere. It is possible that Mrs. P whould have seen just as many doctors in the US, when the initial treatment for high blood pressure didn't work...I've seen many, many instances where it's taken a 3rd & 4th opinion to get to the right diagnosis, in the USA. And it's not the fault of the doctors, it's the progression of the disease itself...it's like playing the game "clue". Sorry, I'm with Longlegs on this one. I've had great medical care in La Paz, even though their hospital is purple!

Treatment options in Baja

rob - 10-6-2008 at 09:33 AM

My best wishes to Mrs Pescador for a full recovery.

Very few of my Mexican friends in La Paz have much faith in local diagnosis/treatment capabilities, especially in potentially serious cases. If they have the cash, they are off to Guadalajara clinics (which I have been told by U.S. specialists and experienced personally, are world-class) at the first sign of trouble.

For many of us, treatment in the U.S. (or Canada) is no longer an option - we live here full-time, are perhaps citizens, and no longer have existent insurance in those places. My last brush with Ameican medicine cost me $370 for a two minute appointment - we can't afford it any more.

And Guadalajara is just 40 minutes up the road and is(comparatively), downright cheap.

Cajones - 10-6-2008 at 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nevadacitynurse
Sorry, I'm with Longlegs on this one. I've had great medical care in La Paz, even though their hospital is purple!

Which of her contradictory statements are you with? The one that says medical care is better in La Paz than in the US, or the one that says one should use ones judgment and head to the US if you think you have something serious?

Cypress - 10-6-2008 at 11:12 AM

Pescador, I'm betting you and your lady(with a clean bill of health) will soon be down in your favorite place, catching fish, while all the rest of us are only dreaming.

Good Luck with all your trials and tribulations.

Pescador - 10-6-2008 at 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
Pescador,

I have a question. Were there any other symptoms like breathing problems or coughing? You said advanced lung cancer and "the" tumor. Would the usual chest x-ray have uncovered the problem?

Best of luck.

Actually, we had no symptoms that were noticeable. She had 135% of normal lung capacity, fished as long and as hard as I did, was still walking 3 or 4 miles on non-fishing days, and yes had a set of X-rays as well as an ultra-sound done in Santa Rosalia. We assumed that we would come home, go through some tests, change medications and maybe have them put in a stint or something for blockage and be back in Baja by late summer. That is perhaps why the situation was so devastating, as we had not even so much as a small clue that anything of that sort was wrong.
Because we were concerned about the high blood pressure and elevated pulse, we were watching things carefully and had an appointment with a cardioligist on a Monday. That Sunday she noticed that her left arm was becoming numb so without delay we ended up in the emergency room of our local hospital. They obviously found nothing that was directly related but there was something in the blood profile that caused some concern for the emergency room doctor who ordered a CT Scan. As soon as the CT Scan was done, they found a small tumor in the lung and it was not until they did a needle biopsy that we knew positively that it was cancer.

DianaT - 10-6-2008 at 11:50 AM

Pescador,

Really glad they found it before she had real symtoms of lung cancer. Just keeping positive thoughts for her.

Sounds like you had a really good emergency room doctor.

Diane

nevadacitynurse - 10-6-2008 at 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cajones

Quote:

Originally posted by nevadacitynurse
Sorry, I'm with Longlegs on this one. I've had great medical care in La Paz, even though their hospital is purple!

I agree with both statements. There are many instances where the care in La Paz could be just as good or better than the US...it depends on the situation. There are lots of small towns in the USA that do not have the facilities or resources to diagnose or treat many illnesses (Baja doesn't have the corner on that). When I worked in San Francisco, we saw lots of patients from all over the world. We had patients from as far away as Russia (Chernoble), and from small farming communities in central California, who came to UCSF for bone marrow tansplantation. These people had first gone to their own docs with "flu-like" symptoms, and when routine treatment for the flu failed, they were directed toward more in depth care, in a larger city, in a "teaching" hospital. This doesn't mean they had "bad" care in the beginning, it's the way the disease presents itself combined with the level of care available in a given locality.

comitan - 10-6-2008 at 01:42 PM

I believe Pescador excluded larger cities like La Paz, Also when I was in town today I noticed the Cancer clinic it is very large building not part of a Hospital. I also think that this thread should not go down hill........................... You can start that when she's down here fishing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crusoe - 10-6-2008 at 05:37 PM

Nevadanurse is absolutely correct!!....While on a kayack trip years ago to some remote islands in the S.O.C., my female partner expierienced a ruptured appendix. After a long hard slog to get her to the private hospital in La Paz, we found she could have not found a better time or place to have this happen. The care and integrity and expertise of all the doctors and nurses and care givers and staff was a huge notch above anything we had ever expierienced in the U. S.. The hospital was dead clean and quiet, with all the warmth and caring of your grandmothers kitchen. The final bill was about 25% of what it woud have been in the U.S. as well. Our health insurance did not cover us for out of the U.S.A.. ++C++

Cajones - 10-6-2008 at 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crusoe
The final bill was about 25% of what it woud have been in the U.S. as well. Our health insurance did not cover us for out of the U.S.A.. ++C++

If you had US health insurance, why would it have cost you anything in the US? 25% of zero is still zero.

Cajones - 10-6-2008 at 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cajones
Which of her contradictory statements are you with?

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadacitynurse
I agree with both statements.

Well, that explains everything. :rolleyes:

DrTom - 10-6-2008 at 07:03 PM

"they were directed toward more in depth care, in a larger city, in a "teaching" hospital."

just so its not confusing, teaching hospitals are those hospitals that are the clinical setting for medical schools and their faculty. Mayo, Johns Hopkins, UCSF, UCLA, Stanford, UCDavis, UCSD are examples. My point being is that teaching hospitals, often, but not always, have the best quality medicine available. To give Canada its due, its academics are good, and it does have the gear, just not in every town like in the US.....Mexico city and guadalahara have good medical schools and good hospital settings.

im glad to hear that a diagnosis is accurately made and the appropriate treatment has started......a tumor that isnt visible on a chest film or echo but only on a ct scan is a tough one......good call on the er doc....

lingililingili - 10-6-2008 at 07:19 PM

Speaking for us, our Insurance is Major Medical which means $5,000 deductible. So, Cajones for us, medical expenses can be very costly. BMG recently had surgery by a dermatologist in La Paz which totaled $40. USD. This would have been a $300.00 minimum tab in the U.S. He received excellent care.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cajones

If you had US health insurance, why would it have cost you anything in the US? 25% of zero is still zero.

dao45 - 10-6-2008 at 11:08 PM

UDO!!! You go.Great spirit

vandenberg - 10-7-2008 at 10:25 AM

Best wishes for a speedy recovery Mrs Pescador. Our thoughts are with you.

Maybe not totally related, but here part of an article in the CSM today:

Charlottesville, Va.
Seven hundred billion – sound familiar? Yes, that's the cost of the financial-services industry bailout, but it's also about the amount of money America is wasting every year on unnecessary healthcare expenses.

If we could take the steps needed to save that $700 billion, we could take "just" $100 billion to cover the uninsured and have $600 billion left over for Wall Street.

Here's the math: Our current healthcare spending is approximately $2.1 trillion (that's up from $1.3 trillion noninflation adjusted in 2000). We waste an estimated one-third – or about $700 billion – on unnecessary procedures, unnecessary visits to the doctor, overpriced pharmaceuticals, bloated insurance companies, and the most inefficient paper billing systems imaginable