thebajarunner - 5-14-2004 at 04:04 PM
I had always assumed that once a Mexican citizen "raised the hand" in the U.S. that they effectively renounced their Mexican citizenship.
I know that last year there was a window of opportunity to 're-certify' your Mexican status, even if you naturalized in the U.S.
But, in the paper this week I read that Pamela Anderson (of the plastic front bumpers) took the U.S. oath, yet she specifically said she was retaining
her Canadian citizenship.
So, I asked my brother-in-law, who is career State Dept. (you know, he denies visas for a living) and he gave me a very squiggly answer.
He said that the U.S. oath did not have any overtunes of renunciation of your prior status, that if your old country still recognized your citizenship
then you had both.
Well, my Jalisco born wife "raised the hand" 20 years ago in San Diego and we have assumed that she is no longer a Mexican citizen.
Now, I am wondering if she still is, even to the point of maybe trying to get her a backup passport in Mexico, just for the record.
Any wise and learned thoughts on this?
Baja Arriba!!!
The other way too
bajalou - 5-14-2004 at 07:32 PM
We here in San Felipe were told by the American Consulate's rep from Tijuana that to get rid of citizenship, you haave to formaly renounce it. Those
of us emigrating to Mexico with FM2's have no change in US citizenship status when we become perminante residents (with ALL the rights of Mexican
nationals except voting. I think getting the Mexican papers for you and family (wife at least) sounds like a good move to me. Check the status of
your children also (if you have any).
Good luck
Dual citizenship
aldosalato - 5-15-2004 at 06:18 AM
According to Mexican Constitucion you can be:
MEXICAN BY BIRTH
Mexico allow to retain citizenship and double citizenship to whoever is born in Mexico or is son/doughter of a Mexican.
MEXICAN BY NATURALIZATION:
Mexico give Naturalization citizenship to whoever living in Mexico for a certain number of years or is married to a Mexican
For example in my family living in Mexico:
1) I am a naturalized Mexican (I cannot claim Italian citizenship in front of Mexican authorities or on Mexican soil)
2) My wife is Mexican by birth and Italian
3) My sons are both Mexicans and Italians
As you can see there is a contradiction within the same Constitucion where I am a second class citizen and there is even an article that prohibit me
from being a captain even of a small boat. And that really make me mad because I cannot take tourists legally on my boat.
ARTICULO 30. LA NACIONALIDAD MEXICANA SE ADQUIERE POR NACIMIENTO O POR NATURALIZACION.
A).- SON MEXICANOS POR NACIMIENTO:
I. LOS QUE NAZCAN EN TERRITORIO DE LA REPUBLICA, SEA CUAL FUERE LA NACIONALIDAD DE SUS PADRES.
II.- LOS QUE NAZCAN EN EL EXTRANJERO, HIJOS DE PADRES MEXICANOS NACIDOS EN TERRITORIO NACIONAL, DE PADRE MEXICANO NACIDO EN TERRITORIO NACIONAL, O DE
MADRE MEXICANA NACIDA EN TERRITORIO NACIONAL;
III.- LOS QUE NAZCAN EN EL EXTRANJERO, HIJOS DE PADRES MEXICANOS POR NATURALIZACION, DE PADRE MEXICANO POR NATURALIZACION, O DE MADRE MEXICANA POR
NATURALIZACION, Y
IV.- LOS QUE NAZCAN A BORDO DE EMBARCACIONES O AERONAVES MEXICANAS, SEAN DE GUERRA O MERCANTES.
B).- SON MEXICANOS POR NATURALIZACION:
I. LOS EXTRANJEROS QUE OBTENGAN DE LA SECRETARIA DE RELACIONES CARTA DE NATURALIZACION.
II.- LA MUJER O EL VARON EXTRANJEROS QUE CONTRAIGAN MATRIMONIO CON VARON O CON MUJER MEXICANOS, QUE TENGAN O ESTABLEZCAN SU DOMICILIO DENTRO DEL
TERRITORIO NACIONAL Y CUMPLAN CON LOS DEMAS REQUISITOS QUE AL EFECTO SE?ALE LA LEY.
http://info4.juridicas.unam.mx/ijure/fed/9/31.htm?s=
dono - 5-15-2004 at 07:18 AM
Aldo do you have immigrante status or full citizenship, because if you have full citizenship you should be able to do any job you want, except run for
public office
Inmigrado
bajalou - 5-15-2004 at 08:29 AM
My FM2 has a "Declaratioria de Inmigrado" page which cites "los articulos del 64 al 67 de la Ley General de Poblacion"
Also there is a page "Limitaciones a las actividaded del inmigrado conforme al articulo 66 de la ley general de poblacion"
The local Imigrationoffice has not been able to get me copies of these articles, but have told me I would have all rights and privlidges of natural
born Mexicans except no vote.
aldosalato, do you know what these sections actually say. Would appreciate it if you (or anyone) had translations of these articules. Thanks
A slightly different question:
BajaVida - 5-15-2004 at 01:57 PM
I was born in the EEUU.
My mother is a naturalized US Citizen, born in Mexico.
My father was born in the US of Mexican parents.
Sounds like I am also a Mexican citizen based in Aldo's post. What would I have to do if I wanted to establish Mexican citizenship?
I thought Aldo was an Italian name, your Italian citizenship explains it.
I can only imagine the confusion crossing the border with Mexican and American papers--but no need for a tourist card, I assime.
[Edited on 5-15-2004 by BajaVida]
a nasty little kink in the program
thebajarunner - 5-15-2004 at 02:36 PM
When in doubt, go to the right place.
So, I went to the Mexican Consulate website and discovered the following:
http://www.consulmexny.org/eng/dec_mex_cit.htm
When you go there you will discover that Mexico changed its law in March 1998 to allow dual citizenship. However, you had to procure an official
Affadivit of Mexican Citizenship in a five year window which expired March 2003.
You simply submit your Mexican birth certificate (which my wife has) along with the Affadavit (OOPS!) and away you go.
Guess we are back to square one. We go in big dumb and happy and lay the birth certificate on the counter and grin a lot. Get the pasaporte in her
birth name, then worry about changes later.
The one year exp. fee is only $30 which is worth the gamble.
Hey, whatttaaa they gonna do, export (import) her??
Baja Arriba!!
aldosalato - 5-15-2004 at 08:54 PM
Answer to Dono:
Yes I am a Mexican citizen since 2001 but there is an article on the Constitucion that says that naturalized Mexicans cannot be captain on a Mexican
boat (even a small panga).
Here is why:
SE REQUIERE SER MEXICANO POR NACIMIENTO.
ESTA MISMA CALIDAD SERA INDISPENSABLE EN CAPITANES, PILOTOS, PATRONES, MAQUINISTAS, MECANICOS Y, DE UNA MANERA GENERAL, PARA TODO EL
PERSONAL QUE TRIPULE CUALQUIER EMBARCACION O AERONAVE QUE SE AMPARE CON LA BANDERA O INSIGNIA MERCANTE MEXICANA. SERA TAMBIEN NECESARIA PARA
DESEMPE?AR LOS CARGOS DE CAPITAN DE PUERTO Y TODOS LOS SERVICIOS DE PRACTICAJE Y COMANDANTE DE AERODROMO.
Answer to BajaVida:
I do not know how to do it through the Mexican consulate but
Your mother just could go to Mexico and get her birth certificate. Then she will need Go to the SRE (Secretaria de Relaciones Exteriores and just get
her Mexican passport).
In La Paz SRE release the passport on the same day!!!!!! I do not know any place in the world so fast!!!
Probably only problem is that she need an extra document (there is a list on the following link http://portal.sre.gob.mx/pasaportes/index.php?option=article... and that could take some extra time
Your father could get citizenship if one of your grandfathers is still alive and can transmit the citizenship to him.
Otherwise has to declare to Mexican authorities that has been living in Mexico (FM3) married to a Mexican wife for a couple of years and claim
citizenship as naturalized.
You need first your mother to claim her citizenship and then she can transmit to you directly. And voila' you would be citizen first class by birth
and even work taking out tourists fishing in Mexico!!
There is also chance that you will be allowed to vote for next Presidential election!!! PAN and PRD are very much for it but PRI seems want to play
tricks and block the reform.
Yes Aldo is an Italian name but in La Paz probably due to hundreds of years of missionaries coming from the North of Italy there are an unusual number
of "tocayos" named Aldo.
Mexican Constitucion has good principles but just too many articles and some even contradict themselves. Simplifications are badly needed.
blue eyed immigrants
thebajarunner - 5-15-2004 at 08:58 PM
Baja Vida, with your blue eyes there is not a chance they will believe you.
Teresa at least has a chance, you are Gringo, through and through...
Baja Arriba!!
aldosalato - 5-15-2004 at 09:05 PM
MOre answer to BajaVida:
You can also claim citizenship by naturalization because you are descendent to a Mexican. You have to declare to live in Mexico for two years (FM3 or
FM2)
http://www.sre.gob.mx/juridicos/doctos/dnn9.doc
my grandmohter and brother have blue eyes
BajaVida - 5-16-2004 at 05:03 PM
but I do not
Viva Jalisco!!
Boat captain?
Sallysouth - 5-22-2004 at 09:47 AM
My daughter was born in Mexico by both US citizen parents. She now has dual citizenship(a Mexican and an American passport),owns two bussinesses in
Loreto,votes And is a licensed fishing capitan. She took her test in La Paz(capitan of fishing vessel) in spanish and passed with flying colors.
dual citizens
thebajarunner - 5-22-2004 at 01:24 PM
Yeah, under the present rules that one is an easy one. Previously, before the Mexican constitucion was amended, when one like your daughter reached
18/21 (the age of majority) they had to renounce one.... IN THEORY>>>> no one ever did.
Thus, we had a lot of de facto, if somewhat questionable, dual citizens. Now, neither side requires renouncing, Mexico specifically allows dual status
and the US is silent on the issue.
Wish it were that easy for Teresa who was born there, is now naturalized here, and never bothered to get her Affadavit of Citizenship in the 5 year
window.
Happy for your daughter, that is a great asset to have both...
Baja Arriba!!
It's a good thing
Sallysouth - 6-11-2004 at 09:39 PM
To keep your ducks in order,as they say.So sorry to hear of Teresa's problem. Surely there must be a way to get her paperwork in order? Mija, who
lives in Loreto is here at this time. I will ask her if she has knows how to go about fixing your wife's situation. I'll get back to you if I find
anything out. You can U2U me if you like. Sally
answer to Sallysouth
aldosalato - 6-12-2004 at 11:35 AM
Your doughter can be a boat captain because she is citizen by birth.
I am just naturalized............
Last week I submitted a letter to the SRE (Secretaria de Relaciones Exteriores) asking for a revision of the Constitution.
It will probably take 10 years or more but at least I put my little effort
Still thinking about it
thebajarunner - 6-12-2004 at 12:33 PM
Sally, thanks for your concern. We will take this on later in the Summer, just make the nonchalant pass by the consul in Sacramento and see what
happens
Meanwhile, if you hear other news be sure and post it.
(I sent you a U2U)
Baja Arriba!!