BajaNomad - Women and children beggers

Women and children beggers

bajabound2005 - 10-15-2008 at 09:23 PM

Amen! To those children, I'm often inclined to ask "why aren't you in school"? -- in my very best Spanish!

bajamigo - 10-15-2008 at 09:57 PM

It breaks my heart to see those poor innocent kids frying out in the sun or breathing the wonderful air around the clogged-up border crossings. I wish I could think of even one way to "break the cycle," but when Dad (if there is one) is making $12/day and there are multiple mouths to feed, I guess necessity drives them to do things that we may not approve of, but what's the alternative?

BAJACAT - 10-15-2008 at 09:58 PM

You can see them at late hours into the night, very sad, where is the DIF, when you need them.

Paula - 10-15-2008 at 10:15 PM

I've heard that in the more remote pueblos of Oaxaca people are literally starving. They are recruited by men who bring them to the city and drop them off here and there to beg from locals and tourists. Most are older women, and women with children. They bring substantial cash in a day, which is collected by their foremen each evening as they are driven to a communal place where they are minimally fed and housed. I was advised there that if I wished to help them "so that I could feel better about myself" I should give them a sandwich rather than money.

Perhaps they are having to travel farther now,a very sad situation in any case.

elgatoloco - 10-15-2008 at 10:27 PM

Truly sad indeed. It is hard to resist but it is the right thing to do. Giving them some fruit or food is what we try to do. We have heard the stories of the exploitation and it is sickening. A real shame that is has to occur.

Packoderm - 10-15-2008 at 10:31 PM

I remember one night at a fiesta in Ensenada one of those Oaxacan looking ladies walked up to me and held up a cup like she was begging, so I poured the cup full with some peanuts I had in a paper sack that I bought there at the fiesta. She seemed put off by my act of generosity and turned and walked away, and just about all of the local people in the vicinity were busting out laughing. Can't say I didn't try.

Bajafun777 - 10-15-2008 at 11:02 PM

I know what everyone says about giving to them and I cannot help them all but I always give a little something to the few that approach me. I know, I know it only encourages it but until Mexico does more to help the Indian population I guess I will always give. I guess the christian upbringing just makes me give to those less fortunate, as I know how my dad struggled when he was a boy in Oklahoma where his mother was Indian. I have friends that give me a hard time about this as does my wife but hunger is a beast unto itself. Ok, I ready to have the scolding begin but you will have it fall on deaf ears, as my heart for these people are just too weak to stop. Later--------GT

LB - 10-16-2008 at 01:46 PM

A few years back we encountered a young boy selling chicklets in Cabo, he looked very ill and running a fever. A passing Mexicano translated for us and we were able to take him to a tacueria to feed him..he was starving. We were advised not to give him any milk as it may make him sick. We bought up all his chicklets as we had been told he could not go home until he sold them
all. The chicklets were left with the tacueria and he returned the next
day and picked up the box. Feeding people a meal is the way to go
rather than handing out money.

In Pueta Valarta we visited a large church, many tourists. A elderly indian
lady sat begging with baby. We watched for sometime. Two small boys
would come and pick up the money and run around the corner. This
went on and on, we concluded that in half an hour she had collected
an awful lot of money from the tourists, we thought she must live very well.
Never occured to us that she may have to give it to someone else.

shari - 10-16-2008 at 02:04 PM

SAdly, the beggars in tourist areas are a well organized pimp outfit...however, there is another type of individual in our small villages who deserve you help. In the small towns, certain people who have or have children who have debilitating illnesses need the support of everyone to help buy wheelchairs, medication, operations etc. They sometimes are outside the stores or bakery in GN and sometimes are at gas stations with a paper explaining thier problems and needs...and everyone knows them and drops coins in thier cans. I think this is lovely that everyone no matter how poor, helps those less fortunate than they are.
But that is a great idea for the woman and children beggars to give them food...I would have never thought of that but will from now on...gracias amigos
Maybe take note who the local people are helping and follow suit.

Katiejay99 - 10-16-2008 at 02:07 PM

In Cabo I would watch a couple of children selling chiclets and I truly felt sorry for them until I started paying more attention. They would "drop" the whole box of chiclets and make it look like the tourist was at fault. I saw several tourists try to help pick them up and then hand them money - sometimes as much as $20. It was a scam. I called the girls on it and they just ran off down the street to do it again.

When I had my restaurant in Cabo, I would give out free meals to the local beggars who truly needed something to eat. Many of the local - non indian - Mexicans told me that the beggars are brought in and they are required to hand over the money they received during the day and sometimes that was to a husband who used it for drugs and alcohol. What a shame.

BajaGringo - 10-16-2008 at 02:21 PM

A friend of mine used to work for DIF in Tijuana and told me that we would help these folks more by not giving them money. Most of them are being pimped and have to turn over all their cash. See those kids with them? They may not even be theirs she told me. Kids are rented out by the day as they help to raise the sympathy value. Infants and kids who know how to juggle command a higher rate. I thought she was kidding but she assured me that it was true. A neighbor told me that there was an expose written about them in a Tijuana paper a few years back and since that article came out, few locals give them money any more.

I used to always give those moms with kids and cup in hand money too but no longer. I do however help someone I see who has an obvious impairment / permanently disabled. The funny thing is that you see very few of them just looking for a handout - they are usually trying to sell something or provide some type of service as they are able in exchange. I always try to buy whatever they are selling and I admire them for their tenacity and pride.

burnrope - 10-16-2008 at 03:43 PM

I give a buck a limb when crossing the border.

Skeet/Loreto - 10-16-2008 at 04:41 PM

It may help if you find a group or Hospital who has a need for Poor children who are not Pimped?

this happened several years ago in Loreto where we were able to help local people who where very poor with Food!

again, I just delivered a Pick up full of clothes to the Children of Constitution> Those poor Kids need all the Warm Clothes and jackets you can get to them.

The thing to remember is to get your donations to a "General Hospital". If given to an unknown usually someone will try to get a 10% handling fee.

All of the Directors of General Hospitals in Mexico are 32 Degree Masons and follow along the same lines as the Masons do here in the States with the language Disorders, Scottish Rite Hospitals, and Shriners.

So instead of giving to that "Pimped Person at the Border" seek out the ones who are truly needy and then do your thing.

I still encourge anyone going to La Paz to take a Suitcase full of warm Clothing by the General Hospital in Constitution and tell them it is For "Warm jackets for Cold Kids" They will see that it goes to the Poorest of Poor.

Thank you for your Interest.

Skeet/Loreto

Skip_Mac - 10-16-2008 at 06:19 PM

Gotta say, we see lots of beggars in SF and Berkeley too. In Baja, Mary and I have tried to give food. We always found something in the snack bag or cooler. Not sure about the packoderms arrogant approach. I'd have just handed her the bag and walked off. People DO deserve a little pride no matter their social position or a gringo's snap judgment.

Sheri's point about organization of begging is well made, true on several continents and also the Estados Unidos. Gifts of food or water can help the person more than the pimp, a kind word or smile cost you Nothing. If you have ever lived near the edge, the smile or word can make a bad day tolerable...and what begger has a Good day?

Conscious empathy is better than arrogant dismissal, IF you choose to try to build a better world through your actions. Disclaimer. These are My Opinions Only. I am not attacking anyone, privileged or destitute.

fishingmako - 10-16-2008 at 07:18 PM

What you are saying is true, but only for a few, I work with a Church in Ensernada doing missionary work and we go into the villages, in and around PUNTA BANDA and other places close by, and these Indians work in the fields very hard for a few pesos daily, you don't see the places they live from the road side, they are in, only a couple of miles, and never leave the Village, the men come and impreagnate them and leave, the Children that are 4 or 5 become the baby sitters, while the mothers go to work in the fields, most won't wear shoes because they don't feel comfortable with them on, now these are the people to feel sorry for, their house is a pallet with card board attached, and dirt floors, believe me they have absolutely nothing, so don't confuse yourself with all of them, all are basically in tijuana, Rosarito etc.
By the way these people speak absolutely NO SPANISH, they have there own language, and each village is different from one another, they don't even know how old they are, they have no birth certificates and have not, and most will never see school, so some insight of the real Indians.

Packoderm - 10-16-2008 at 07:43 PM

I was being sincere - not arrogant. The peanuts were fresh roasted. It was a sacrifice to part with them. I wish I had them back right now.

mtgoat666 - 10-16-2008 at 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spicy_Angel
this may sound mean to some, but please avoid giving to beggers. As a native mexicana, I am embarrassed to see women beggers (commonly originally from oaxaca) with a baby slung over their shoulder, 2 or 3 other kids nearby unsupervised, and another baby in "the oven".

the teachings of jesus were wasted on you. i can't believe that 9/10 posts on this topic are fat, well fed gringos and mexicans discouraging charity,... you will all burn in h*ll for such selfishness and disregard for the downtrodden.

Packoderm - 10-16-2008 at 08:35 PM

Hey, I have shared 6 plastic bowls and spoons, a box of Trix and a box of Coco Puffs, and a carton of milk with obviously poor children in Ensenada. We munched out right there on the curb of the street. I give when I can. I'm not going to hell - not for that anyway.

postholedigger - 10-16-2008 at 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
I just delivered a Pick up full of clothes to the Children of Constitution>

I tried doing that but was informed at the border that bringing used clothes into Mexico is not allowed, even if it is for the poor. Got turned around and sent back into the U.S. where I was sent to secondary so they could make sure that all I had in the back was clothes. All in all, a nice waste of a couple of hours. Won't be trying that again any time soon.

Pescador - 10-16-2008 at 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

the teachings of jesus were wasted on you. i can't believe that 9/10 posts on this topic are fat, well fed gringos and mexicans discouraging charity,... you will all burn in h*ll for such selfishness and disregard for the downtrodden.

I guess if we follow this line of connection then we should all actively support the prostitutes in the same manner. :dudette:

It is always good to give in an anonymous manner but rarely does it do anything to help an individual when they are part of a bigger and corrupt system. The point that Spicy Angel was trying to make is that it really does very little to help the individual who is hurting and continues to perpetrate a system which allows for the exploitation of these indian women.
In Nogales, they had a mayor that really went to work on cleaning up the system many years ago and they found that the "labor unions" that kept these indigineous Indian families in virtual slavery quit coming.

bajaguy - 10-16-2008 at 09:12 PM

Whenever possible in the States, I usually give the street person a couple of burgers, fries and a coke........no money

redmesa - 10-16-2008 at 09:24 PM

You give what you can ... when you can. I do not think too much about it. If some one on the streets in any locale asks me for spare change ...if i have it i give it. If I drive south I take something to offer to those in need. There have always been beggars and not giving will not make them go away. What they do with the clothes or the money is their business. Yes, and even food can be bartered.

Bajafun777 - 10-16-2008 at 10:03 PM

One gives as one sees fit. I also give money and food to those in the U.S.A. off and on. I also tell them where they can get a chance to clean-up, eat, and yes it involves the reading of the Lord's word. I have had some tell me they would go without before praying and I said ok your choice, but if I gave them something I did not resent it when they told me this.
In Imperial County a number of our churches, clubs, even a motorcycle club I mess around with on short rides in Calexico raises money for the children helped by the church and DIF in Mexicali with clothes, food, and yes gifts for X-Mas. I have given and bought these little kids food in Mexico and have yet to have one not eat it all real fast and always get a smile, so I guess I was paid in the only way they could. I also understand those that are mad at adults using these kids to get money, so be upset with the one controlling the game not the kids. "No Hurry, No Worry, Just Fun" bajafun777

Mango - 10-16-2008 at 10:46 PM

It can be tough sometimes to see beggars in Mexico and elsewhere...

I learned my lesson early on in my Mexico travels when I gave a little kid 2 pesos and later saw him in the video arcade the same day.

Now my rules are...

If missing a limb, injured, or elderly.. I will give some money depending on my mood and my current wealth. Usually 2 to 5 pesos and sometimes more. Sometimes it's hard.. at the border I give none to anyone since I'd be broke just giving to people in wheelchairs, etc..

Everyone else.. sorry..

If you play me a song, I will give a few pesos. I once had a guy offer to sing me a song so he could buy a guitar to replace his that was stolen. I gave him 50 pesos. Several years later.. I saw the same guy in the same town.. this time with a guitar.. and selling CD's of his music. I bought one from him and when I told him about meeting him years earlier.. he remembered me and gave me some other free crafts, textiles, etc and thanked me for helping him in the past....

I always take extra bread, tortillas, and fruit from my meals at restaurants and give them to the beggars sitting in front of the churches.. Elderly, and women with children come first..

Skeet/Loreto - 10-17-2008 at 07:01 AM

Postholedigger:

That is the reason for using Suitcases to take clothes to Mexico.

Shortly after we got started with "Warm Jackets for Cold Kids" the custom s people at the Border at TJ and Otay started stopping and taking clothes in boxes and Bags.

I checked with officials and found that they would not bother if clothes where in Suitcases and the number was reasonable.{This last trip I had 12 Bags covered up with a sleeping bag} No Trouble anywhere, Military did not ever look in the back of the Truck. Just wanted to talk with me in Spanish/English. Did not even have to get Sprayed at GN.

shari - 10-17-2008 at 07:14 AM

This is a good tip for border crossing with gifts(not even at christmas, take your presents unwrapped)...NEVER tell them anything is a gift or donation...it's all your stuff...the suitcase tip works perfectly AND you get to give away the suitcase too!

bajamigo - 10-17-2008 at 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishingmako
What you are saying is true, but only for a few, I work with a Church in Ensernada doing missionary work and we go into the villages, in and around PUNTA BANDA and other places close by, and these Indians work in the fields very hard for a few pesos daily, you don't see the places they live from the road side, they are in, only a couple of miles, and never leave the Village, the men come and impreagnate them and leave, the Children that are 4 or 5 become the baby sitters, while the mothers go to work in the fields, most won't wear shoes because they don't feel comfortable with them on, now these are the people to feel sorry for, their house is a pallet with card board attached, and dirt floors, believe me they have absolutely nothing, so don't confuse yourself with all of them, all are basically in tijuana, Rosarito etc.
By the way these people speak absolutely NO SPANISH, they have there own language, and each village is different from one another, they don't even know how old they are, they have no birth certificates and have not, and most will never see school, so some insight of the real Indians.

A grim picture, but I don't believe entirely accurate. Agua Viva Children's Home provides food and care to up to 150 children daily. Their mission is necessitated by the absence of parents, who do spend long days in the fields, making between $12 and $13/day each.

Shoes are a major problem. Regular shoes won't last but a few days in the muck surrounding the Oaxacan homes in the hills between here and Maneadero. If new shoes are donated, there's a good chance Dad will sell them for pulque money. The answer is JELLIES: easily cleaned and not very marketable. If anyone on this board can score jellies for the kids, I'll get them to Agua Viva.

HCR - 10-18-2008 at 02:14 PM

"It is not possible to help another without helping yourself also."

Don't know the source of that quote, but I do know that whenever I give to a beggar, I FEEL better.

lizard lips - 10-18-2008 at 03:00 PM

I give $40.00 per month to Children International which helps with the education and health for a 11 year old girl close to San Pedro Sula Honduras and have been supporting her this way since she was 5.

A few years ago I had work in San Pedro Sula and contacted Children Inter. and told them I was going to be there and wanted to meet her. They set up the meeting and met with her and her mother and a representative from CI. It was great to meet with her and had the opportunity to see where my money was going.

I did my research prior to giving any money to this organization and felt confident that it would go to the child instead of a large percentage going to scammers.

If you have extra money to give and want to see where it goes please check out Auga Viva just south of Ensenada. Arlene and Jon who run this facility help with the local poor individuals who work in the fields and cannot provide child care for their children. When I went there and saw what they do I was very impressed with their support for these people. They told me the mother and father would go to work in the fields and leave the oldest child to care for the others and sometimes the oldest child is only 5 years old!

Auga Viva gives 2 meals a day to about 100 people as well as provide a safe loving atmosphere for those kids who would be left at home alone with nothing or very little to eat. They also are provided with a teacher which is paid by the Mexican Govt. Most of these kids are from Oaxaca.

I don't feel bad when I tell the beggers no because I give my support and money to people that I know where the money goes.

For those of you who want to give please support out golf tournament for Agua Viva which is now an annual event. The next tourney will be in June of next year at the Baja Country Club. If you cannot give money please give your time and energy to this fund raiser.

bajadock - 10-18-2008 at 03:06 PM

http://www.aguavivadc.com/

BajaNuts - 10-18-2008 at 05:13 PM

I am from a rural area and not used to the city street beggars. What is the story with the stop-light beggars in La Paz? Some seem to be "selling" lollipops and others are collecting for the children of "something"?

This issue is not new...I remember visiting Ensenada as a young girl with my family about 30 years ago and there was a boy about 9 years old, who followed up up to our car, asking "Money for a taco? Money for a taco?" and he was literally opening up our car door as my dad was backing out of the parking space.

Those who know, please shed some light about the streetlight people. thanks-

Skip_Mac - 10-18-2008 at 06:12 PM

I give all I feel right with, either side of the border. Sadly my Internet commenters choose to sent most of my coerced tax dollars to major corporate executives who have gamed the system and ripped off the taxpayer. In contrast, I feel as though I have taken my power back when I CHOOSE to support an Estados Unidos beggar or a Baja poor Solicitor with either an offer of food or cash. I do not feel as if the offering is "misused". That idea is different across cultures. I choose where to offer or to give my money.

One thing is certain, I will never spend MY MONEY on anything to make some internet commenter feel better about their bias. I will be my own person ,and whatever some of you think of me I could care less. I moderated my opinion a great bit here.

Jack Swords - 10-21-2008 at 10:19 AM

Spending 6 months in La Paz, we have been associated with several groups that honestly provide for poorer folks. The Fundación Ayuda Niños La Paz which is associated with the Club Cruceros has a subasta this November 30. Thousands of dollars are raised each year at the subasta which go to breakfast and lunch programs in several colonias. They also provide educational scholarships for qualified kids in these poor colonias so that they can attend higher education. The subasta always accepts donations of clothing, appliances, etc. A contact is Mary Shroyer at Marina de la Paz. We have been out to the colonias helping at Christmas and other times and it is a very effective program. Stop by and volunteer and you will become acquainted with other groups (like the Jaycees) who contribute so much too.

BajaGringo - 10-21-2008 at 10:42 AM

We can all share our thoughts and opinions here without being judgmental - No need to feel defensive. This is something you should feel motivated to do, not coerced into. Like many things in life, there is no perfect answer on this one...

To Each Their Own !

MrBillM - 10-21-2008 at 10:44 AM

This question comes up frequently and the bottom line is that everyone will continue to do whatever they have been. No minds are changed.

For my part, I have always made it a point to cross the border with a surplus of Dollar Bills to hand out for Chiklets or whatever. A pleasant demeanor helps, too. The really nice guy at the gas station got three dollars Sunday for a so-so windshield wash. The problem with the regulars is that, once you overpay, you feel obligated to from then on. Although I generally give something to everyone, the guys who get the most from me are those missing limbs. I figure whatever else they may or may not have going on, being a cripple in Mexico has to be pretty bad.

When all is said and done, the 20-30 dollars or so I hand out to vendors and beggars during a monthly commute, accounts for a pittance of money spent.

One habit that I have revised is that I usually keep about Ten Dollars in ones folded over and wedged into the dash adjacent to an air vent. Stopping at one Army checkpoint, the soldier gave me a dark look and questioned WHY the money was there. Thought it was a Bribe attempt, I guess. I still do it, but I pull it out when we come to the checkpoints.

Mango - 10-21-2008 at 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNuts

Those who know, please shed some light about the streetlight people. thanks-

Mexicali has a ton of these. Most are just hard working vendors, others are beggars in need, and I suspect some just beg professionally.

In general, i don't accept fliers/buy/talk to any of these people because I believe it creates unnecessary hazard in/on the roadway. I am sure the person working hard to feed themselves may have another opinion about its necessity.

Often they will hang candy on your side mirror and come back to collect the candy (or money if you take it) before the light turns green.

One guy in Mexicali I call the Ninja... He often wears a headband as he stands in the middle of traffic while he tosses fliers into open windows of cars moving down the street... its actually pretty amazing to watch and I'm surprised the guy still has two arms left.

I have no problem with beggars and helping them out. I do so often. But like someone else said.. its really a personal thing and you need to judge each person/situation separately.

dao45 - 10-22-2008 at 01:24 AM

WOW! I had no idea Mexico was so poor.Could someone please help me and direct me to the prostitutes that are in such dire staights they need money?Maybe I could develop a charity organization for them

CaboRon - 10-22-2008 at 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dao45
WOW! I had no idea Mexico was so poor.Could someone please help me and direct me to the prostitutes that are in such dire staights they need money?Maybe I could develop a charity organization for them

Begging in Baja

Pompano - 10-22-2008 at 06:24 AM

Prostitution begat oldest profession, which begat oldest begging, which begat......and so it goes... :rolleyes:

(Warning: photo depicting Baja fun)

[Edited on 10-22-2008 by Pompano]

woody with a view - 10-22-2008 at 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by burnrope
I give a buck a limb when crossing the border.

exactly! we just crossed monday and the ONLY person who gets my spare change is the person in a wheelchair and obviously unable to get a real job. you can tell the scammers, usually. this time it was two guys each missing a leg on crutches trying to sell chicklets. at least these guys were trying to earn a living, not just begging.

oh yeah, the guy(s) who are sweeping up the border line with the sign that says our tip is his only pay. that guy is at least trying!!!! :saint:

lingililingili - 10-23-2008 at 09:31 AM

Skeet/Loreto and Shari:

We will be bringing down a few suitcases full of children's clothes (all size two and three toddler boy's). Would you recommend I mix it in with our larger size clothes, or does it not matter?

[Edited on 10/23/08 by lingililingili]

I hope that money was for new shoes

Dave - 10-23-2008 at 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
Prostitution begat oldest profession, which begat oldest begging, which begat......and so it goes... :rolleyes:

Because those are fugugly.