BajaNomad - Are building costs in Baja out of hand?

Are building costs in Baja out of hand?

BajaBruceFan - 10-22-2008 at 09:53 AM

From the quotes I've received it looks like the cost for a reputable builder to build a gringo home in BCS is about $100/sq ft - and this figure does not include the price of the land to build on.

With the downturn in real estate in the US, one can buy a nice home in Arizona or Florida for around $100/sq ft including the lot.

Does it seems like the cost to build in BCS is completely out of whack? Will the US real estate downturn and recession put any downward pressure on the cost to build in Baja? Is it better to build now or wait a year or two for the cost of labor & materials to fall?

Any thoughts?

durrelllrobert - 10-22-2008 at 10:19 AM

Quote:

Any thoughts?

sure you can buy a resale for $100/ft with downturn in housing but you can't build new for less than $150/ft.
Last year I built my cosita here in Punta Banda for $40/ft but I was contractor/designer and just used day laborers. Key to keeping cost dow is a detailed set of plans and making sure the are followed rather than letting builder do it his way (lots of scrap and many extra hours)

Woooosh - 10-22-2008 at 10:32 AM

I know the price of materials has increased due to increased demand. I built a house of 4200 feet (total construction area- not inside living area) for $180K five years ago. No mas. The demand has subsided, but the builing costs stay high- as always.

With the crashing real estate market stateside there are much better, cheaper and safer options than retiring in baja. South Florida, Nevada and Arizona come to mind. The price differntial was part of the charm of retiring to baja. was.

Baja Building costs

Loretana - 10-22-2008 at 11:15 AM

Bruce,

You can't be serious about the cost of materials and labor going down in the next two years!

My builder stayed with his original estimate from Oct '06 when we started construction last November, at $79.00 US per sq. foot.

Considering the expected inflation of prices here in Mexico (@ 7% yearly for goods and services) I feel quite fortunate.

And just last week, Cemex announced an 8% increase in the price of delivered concrete as well as other building materials across the board.

But, even if I was starting my project today, I wouldn't hesitate to build in Baja! Buena suerte.

wilderone - 10-22-2008 at 11:20 AM

If you're unable to devote many hours per week in diligently pursuing cheaper materials, you'll end up paying full price and more (your faucet and their brothers). I saved about half the cost of materials buying on eBay, contractor supply stores, finding sales, etc., and spent about 40 hrs/week pursuing good deals on my 400 SF addition. Did my own painting, bought tile in TJ, had 3/4" solid oak flooring shipped from Georgia, etc.. Overall, I saved about $7,000. Maybe you can negotiate for the basic structure, and then find your own local labor for the interior and patios, and do it over a period of time. A contractor isn't going to shop for a special sale - he's just going to buy what he needs when he needs it, and he's got to charge you for the time he spends chasing materials. There are more factors in Baja CA dictating higher prices that are not relevant in the US.

[Edited on 10-22-2008 by wilderone]

Cypress - 10-22-2008 at 01:18 PM

Have written-off any plans to relocate in Baja.

There're many places in the USA that are less expensive and the fishing is better.

They come with title, electricity, water, and you don't have to jump thru all the legal hoops.

Building materials? Available! Contractors? Take your pick.

vandenberg - 10-22-2008 at 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Have written-off any plans to relocate in Baja.

There're many places in the USA that are less expensive and the fishing is better.

They come with title, electricity, water, and you don't have to jump thru all the legal hoops.

Building materials? Available! Contractors? Take your pick.

Doubt that anybody will miss you here.
The desert is not good for you anyway. You're more like swamp people. Louisiana Bayou more your style. :biggrin:

[Edited on 10-22-2008 by vandenberg]

Cypress - 10-22-2008 at 03:46 PM

vandenderg,

I'll miss my Baja friends, but you're right about the swamps. Guess that bayou mud is in my blood!

The desert is a great place. Beautiful! Love it. Sort of like a one of those one night stands! Sweet memories!

Johannes - 10-22-2008 at 03:54 PM

Loretana check your U2U I am intending to build in Loreto next year.

[Edited on 10-22-2008 by Johannes]

toneart - 10-22-2008 at 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
vandenderg,

I'll miss my Baja friends, but you're right about the swamps. Guess that bayou mud is in my blood!

The desert is a great place. Beautiful! Love it. Sort of like a one of those one night stands! Sweet memories!

Cypress,

"One night stands" can sometimes be the gift that keeps on giving. You may need to relocate to Baja for treatment. :rolleyes:

sylens - 10-22-2008 at 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

With the crashing real estate market stateside there are much better, cheaper and safer options than retiring in baja. South Florida, Nevada and Arizona come to mind. The price differntial was part of the charm of retiring to baja. was.

don't know about building costs (we bought and built in ensenada in 2000) but property taxes are infinitely lower, as are costs for utilities and groceries (if you live more or less the mexican lifestyle). we continue to feel incredibly lucky to have bought and built when we did.

Cypress - 10-22-2008 at 04:11 PM

toneart, :bounce:

Maybe? Baja is a sweet place. Lots of great people! :bounce:

toneart - 10-22-2008 at 04:44 PM

BajaBrucefan,

Like others have said, price of materials keeps going up. Labor is cheaper, depending on where you build.

In Mulege, labor is pretty high because the good ones are kept busy cleaning and fixing up after floods.One plus is, you find out very quickly who is dependable and skilled. The cream rises to the top fast. About three years ago I built my house for about $85 per sq. ft. That included the Fideocomiso (land banktrust title)The house itself was about $62 per sq. ft.

Of course,the river has flooded it two out of the last three years. But it is a beautiful house in a beautiful location, in a beautiful town, with great people, locals and gringos. After cleaning up from the first flood we got lots better at it, with far less stress. I would say it's no big deal. Considering what it cost, it was worth it. The floods are a nuisance, but it is worth it. Now we put all furniture and most appliances upstairs before leaving. Many of us, including me, had flood insurance.

What helps is that it is a solidly constructed house. It is not a palapa. Many other types of houses were ruined, but not ours.

What I mean to say is that I think the time has past for getting a good deal on construction in Baja. Several factors contribute to this; well publicized leases (mine is not) that are not honored or worse, the property is confiscated or even burned down; the economy turndown in the U.S.; well publicized border crime and violence; materials price rises; word of (bad)mouth and media attention.

Your best bet is to find someone who is selling out (not me anytime in the near future). Also, you really need to look around for where you would like to settle. Rent, ask questions, stay for a year before making any decisions. Many dreams become nightmares.

Also, whenever things get slow prices go up. You can count on it. It is a well proven Mexican tradition.

Good luck! I hope this helps. :yes:

Udo - 10-22-2008 at 04:57 PM

Several years ago I was planning on either buying or building a home in Baja.
Now I am glad I bought a 45' diesel pusher. With the four slide-outs we have about 700 sq. feet of space and can make our patio anywhere we park.
We can be neighbors with any Nomads, (although our first one will be Osprey), plus we can move when flods or hurricanes approach.

bajadock - 10-22-2008 at 05:12 PM

For square footage pricing comparisons, space inclusions/exclusions can make for more fun than accurate currency exchanges.

Udo, hope to check our your rig someday, as that's lots of space for your vacation on wheels.

dao45 - 10-22-2008 at 08:22 PM

Please tell me where in the states its cheaper to build and there is better fishing than Baja

shari - 10-23-2008 at 07:17 AM

building in Baja is an exercise in patience, cunning, intelligence (do your homework), sleuthing to find the right guys at the right price and surrender. Do read God and Mr.Gomez first and be assured that this type of thing still happens.

You pay for what you get and everything depends on how fussy you are. If you want a "mexican style" place, you can still get them built rather cheap, but if you want gringo standards, well that's another story. There are lots of builders who have worked in the states who know what details gringos want and need but they charge more. Also you really either need to be present or have someone overseeing your project to make sure things go as planned...like the electrical outlets not being put 3' up the wall!

I have found over the last couple months that price also depends on how desperate the guys are for work. For example..for something not too complicated like a septic system...we paid 12,500 pesos for a nice big 3 chambered one for materials and labour....because the guy really needed work. I have heard of them costing around 25,000 which is a pretty big difference. A few days ago, a good builder came and offered his service to build another septic for even cheaper than our other one...so prices here reflect the need for work...they will undercut another guy to get the job.

Plastering can run from 40 pesos a square meter to 90 pesos so ya gotta shop around amigos. Also materials very greatly from place to place so as in all mexican shopping...ya gotta check all the stores to get the best price. This is why it pays to get your own materials instead of leaving it to the contractor...you will save ALOT.

Also when contracting the guys, I ask for a breakdown of prices..how much for the septic, plastering, floor, brick work per square foot etc....so you know their price is competitive with other crews....and sometimes to get the job, they will come down to the competitors price. Ya, it's a pain to do all that but saves a great deal of moola that you can spend on beer! And its helpful to know what things cost individually. I keep a little book on prices both what different guys charge and prices of materials from different places...some stores have cheaper wood, others have cheaper paint, tile, etc....

Try not to pay any money in wages in advance...set up a weekly labour payment and stick to it. Make sure you have all the materials on hand...the workers hate it when they show up and cant work cause the cement hasn't arrived...or sand, or gravel etc.
All materials have gone way up in the last year, especially in the last month with the dollar so high. Well, gotta put my hard hat on and head out to Gypsies site.

LB - 10-23-2008 at 09:26 AM

One of the best advise so far is: be on site during building no matter what!!
Look out for bids that are lower than others....what has been left out that
the other guy included in the bid. Always will cost more than you think.

Do not be in a rush to finish the house, as you live in it you will find out
how you use the space and will not have to rip it out!

I see so many people redoing their homes, don't know if they are
bored and want a project all the time or made a mistake in the way
they use the space. Take you time. :light:

Yep! Ya gotta be there.

toneart - 10-23-2008 at 11:15 AM

If you are not there to oversee the "progress" you may run into something like my favorite story:

A guy tells the workers that he wants six electrical outlets in a room. He goes out for the day. When he comes back, sure enough, there are six outlets in the room..........all in a cluster, maybe six feet off the floor, taking up maybe a square foot of space.

vandenberg - 10-23-2008 at 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
If you are not there to oversee the "progress" you may run into something like my favorite story:

A guy tells the workers that he wants six electrical outlets in a room. He goes out for the day. When he comes back, sure enough, there are six outlets in the room..........all in a cluster, maybe six feet off the floor, taking up maybe a square foot of space.

In my case they made, at my request, all outlets 12'' of the floor. So, in the kitchen all outlets were behind the cabinets.

And to make it worse, the walls were all finished in decorative brick. :no:

pacside - 10-23-2008 at 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LB
One of the best advise so far is: be on site during building no matter what!!
Look out for bids that are lower than others....what has been left out that
the other guy included in the bid. Always will cost more than you think.
:light:

Well it appears I am doing the exact opposite of what most here recommend. I spent my time looking for a reputable builder local to the area. I received multiple references from various sources and picked my builder but not until I had learned a couple lessons. I started out with a high end architect and wasted $2400 bucks on design plans that were modern when I wanted authentic mexican, then I wasted another $2500 on a "middleman" gringo type person who would design a home and deal with the builder.

Then I met this builder who did it all; designed home based on my feedback, got all environmental reports, got all permits, gave a quote and is sticking to it, sends me pictures of the construction process.

I have to say I am pleasantly surprised at how easy this process is going. I can't say enough good things about this person. I've had independent sources say his crew is out there daily working hard and by the pics it is evident they are making great progress. He pays their social security.

I am giving him creative license to pick out all appliances, fixtures, finishes etc. This is after he showed me some of the homes he built and I pointed out the things I liked so he had a good idea of my tastes.

Now having said this I am paying a higher per sf ft cost (but not unreasonably so) then if I was onsite and managed the project myself. The other thing is I am unable to be down there to manage the project so needed someone reliable and trustworthy to oversee it and so far so good.

There also is the point of time vs money. How much is your time worth. I am a small business owner and my time is better spent doing that and paying someone else whose expertise is doing what they do best.

Just my 2 cents. I don't want to scare off those folks who are told they can't build remote. The biggest thing is finding the right person. It took me a couple mistakes and a couple years to find the right person.

Another point re prices. Prices of materials are going up so the longer you wait the higher the cost of construction imo. However, there may be less demand for workers so wages may be stagnant which could offset the higher cost of materials. The other thing to think about is the longer you wait the more rules and regulations may be implemented in your area.

pacside

Salsa - 10-23-2008 at 02:51 PM

We built in 2000 when digital cameras were new and internet was telephone line and scarce.

I bought a digital camera for the builder and he Emailed me the progress pictures every 2 weeks and he got paid for progress!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Should be easy now.

Don

schwlind - 10-24-2008 at 07:45 AM

We broke ground for our house in September 2002. Our property is on the Pacific a little north of Colonet. We started out with a local builder and had our caretaker (whom we trust completely) oversee everything. BIG MISTAKE #1.

Then we found out (not from our caretaker but from someone else in our area) that our caretaker had fired the builder, because he was not reliable. (Part of BIG MISTAKE #1). So construction came to a grinding halt for about 6 months. We weren't upset with our caretaker for firing the guy, but it would have been nice for him to let us know he was going to do it.

We knew a guy who owed a property on a bluff to our north who was planning on doing a housing development there. He met with us and said he had built houses in the US for years prior to moving to Baja, and had done some residential developments in Baja as well. He said he could build our house for us, and that everything would be built according to California code.

We had developed our own design using Vectorworks and had very detailed, scaled floor plans and plans for plumbing (water and gas), electrical, roof, etc., etc., etc. including elevations of each level. One set in Spanish and another in English. We wanted a block house (ours is 2 story with a garage below the 1st floor). Seems most Baja builders can only do block on the first floor with some other type of material used for upper floors. This builder told us he does "not do block" above the foundation, and strongly suggested that we use the same type of construction being utilized all over the US… steel frame with Georgia Pacific DensGlass Gold sheathing and a thin stucco type exterior finish.

Although we were reluctant, we were really eager to get our house built, so we finally agreed, not having too many other options available to us at that point in time. In addition, this guy was a neighbor, so we knew where to find him if there were any problems. The price wasn't too bad, but it did not include any doors, windows, plumbing, light fixtures, electrical boxes, etc., nor any interior finish work. We were planning on doing all the interior finishes, cabinetry, plumbing etc ourselves. Plumbing for water supply and waste and gas as well as electrical were roughed in.

Even though the builder had detailed, scaled plans, we later found out he took liberties with the locations of a number of the electrical outlets and plumbing for water and gas.

Our current residence (Florida) is about 3,000 miles away from our house in Baja and it was impossible for us to be there for the duration of this construction. BIGGEST MISTAKE OF ALL!

To this very day, we have water penetration (we believe because the windows were not properly installed with flashing), and remember one night during a particularly nasty storm our ground floor had 3 inches of standing water, with two of the windows experiencing cascading waterfalls over the top. That was a fun night. (According to our caretaker, this was a regular occurance during the rainy season)

Anyway, the bottom line is be very careful if you can't be there to oversee the construction as we know from experience that your presence can make all the difference in the world. If we had it to do over again, we definitely would go with block and would definitely not build unless we could be there to oversee everything. We thought our builder was competent, but as it turns out, he cut corners on many things (undoubtedly to increase his bottom line), which we did not painfully learn about until after the fact.

We still need to have most of our windows pulled, and reinstalled with proper flashing, so any recommendations would be appreciated.

Linda

PS… Despite the ongoing problems we still love our house in Baja and enjoy every minute each time we're there! Attached is a pic of our casa!

[Edited on 10-24-2008 by schwlind]

[Edited on 10-24-2008 by schwlind]

P1010037 web.jpg - 48kB

BajaBruceFan - 10-24-2008 at 11:50 AM

Thanks everyone for the great responses & information! Like pacside, we are small business owners and will not be able to be present for much of the construction. Yes, it's a scary prospect, but there is no way we can be down in Baja overseeing things fulltime - we need to be up here making money to pay for everything, lol!

Cypress - 10-24-2008 at 12:16 PM

schwlind, Your Casa is beautiful! Thanks for the pictures. Would a "French Drain" eliminate a good portion of the water problem?

schwlind - 10-24-2008 at 12:23 PM

Hey Cypress...
Thanks...
My understanding of french drains is to control the water flow over the land... perhaps there is a different meaning when it comes to houses that have water migrating in more than likely around the windows? Since we've never had any water damage on the second floor, except for a couple of leaks now and then around the skylights; the water accumulation and damage has been isolated to the 1st floor. So my guess is it is the windows... But don't know for certain.

Linda

Cypress - 10-24-2008 at 12:35 PM

schwlind, Your understanding of french drains is correct. Guess you'll just have to be there when a serious rain event happens. If it's seepage around the baseboards, a french drain will help. If it's running down the walls? Roof? Sealing around windows? Good luck1 It'll all be worth it! :bounce:

wilderone - 10-24-2008 at 01:24 PM

A friend of mine has a water accumulation problem that originates from the large back yard, and adjacent large back yard of his neighbor behind him -- there's a slight slope of both yards, and once saturated, heavy rains seep toward the house and finally accumulates in the flat area which happens to be under his house. He's installed a sump pump and will dig a large trench with sideways drain pipes to capture some of the seeping water. Check your geography and see if a slope toward your house may be part of the problem. I witnessed the same problem on my own lot after my next door neighbor installed a sprinkler system and new lawn - she watered so much the water seeped 30 ft. all across my lot and settled in my neighbor's driveway - and it's not much of a slope.

Ken Bondy - 10-24-2008 at 02:26 PM

A french drain is a trench in the soil, partially filled at the bottom with a permeable material, usually gravel, that is used to direct subsurface water away from a particular area (like a foundation or the perimeter of a house). Instead of gravel, often it is done with a perforated PVC pipe that slopes to an outlet, or connects to a subsurface drainage system.

CaboRon - 10-24-2008 at 04:12 PM

Here is a pics of the French drain in action at my present casa :lol:

CaboRon

Cypress - 10-24-2008 at 04:19 PM

CaboRon, Yea, that's way past anything a french drain can solve.

But a mega one might help? :?:

woody with a view - 10-24-2008 at 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy
A french drain is a trench in the soil, partially filled at the bottom with a permeable material, usually gravel, that is used to direct subsurface water away from a particular area (like a foundation or the perimeter of a house). Instead of gravel, often it is done with a perforated PVC pipe that slopes to an outlet, or connects to a subsurface drainage system.

what Ken said.

woody with a view - 10-24-2008 at 04:32 PM

that really sucks if you gotta bust out all that stucco just to put some flashing around the windows. are mexicans that dumb? their windows don't leak?

if you have to bust out the windows you might want to use some sort of foam or rough saw 2x4 around the window to create a "pop out" trim all around. it's a nice little detail that makes the finished window look finished. you will still flash-in the window but to make it bullet proof you should install some sheet metal pieces of "water table" on the top of the trim piece. it is a 90 degree piece of galvanized sheet metal with a 1/4" kick on the edge. 3" up the wall, 90 degrees out to cover the top of your trim (1-1/2" if using 2x4), down 1" over top of your trim with a 1/4" 45 degree kick top repel rain. flash it all and re stucco!

sides should be caulked and paper/flash laps should all be done with respect to water runs downhill!!!! DUH!

Udo - 10-24-2008 at 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajadock
For square footage pricing comparisons, space inclusions/exclusions can make for more fun than accurate currency exchanges.

Udo, hope to check our your rig someday, as that's lots of space for your vacation on wheels.

Quote:

Hola doc...thanks for the compliment. I do think that in square footage comparisons our traveling house is fairly comparable to a lot of casas in Baja. However, we plan on retiring in the RV in under 4 years and after speaking with many retired RV owners in Baja, the general concensus was that they wanted more interior space (i.e. four slide-outs instead of one or two). We were not looking to park in an RV lot somewhere in Baja (45' is about 7' longer than many Baja RV parks can accomodate). The RV now has five solar panels and I plan on installing a vertical windmill next year. Plus, I plan on towing a 24' trailer to house our Toyota FJ Cruiser.

I'll be sure to yell loudly when we are coming down.

Ken Bondy - 10-24-2008 at 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody in ob

Quote:

what Ken said.

That's funny woody!! Now that I read what I wrote again it does sound kinda pointy-headed

woody with a view - 10-24-2008 at 06:35 PM

only time i've seen a french drain it was used vertically to irrigate a newly planted tree. about 5 feet long it is filled with rocks and buried with one end a few inches above ground level. it provides air to the roots, supposedly, and when filled allows water to penetrate to the roots. :?: