BajaNomad - False drug war

False drug war

gnukid - 10-28-2008 at 10:01 AM

Its interesting how the Arellano-Felix family are used as theater in the false drug war to incite fear, to claim progress and to deflect attention. Clearly there are private cartels and the government run cartel. The more attention they get from their violence and action demands more justification for increased military involvement in civilian life. Yet they fail to bring peace instead they bring violence.

Its time to reject this false presentation and point to the fact that this false drug war is bringing violence because drugs are illegal which causes illegal drug trade. Its no different than prohibition of alcohol in the US which brought on violent gang activity. It's not working, we do not want military presence, we do not want illegal drug trafficking, we do not want gangs shooting each other over drug trade. There is an answer. The answer is No. No More.

WE do not want illegal drug trafficking on our roads and beaches. We the people want legal drug trade which will immediately put these guys out of the business of being illegal along with the illegal laundering banks and corrupt para-military. By sheer definition the criminalization of drug trade causes violence and gang activity.

Simply put legal trade will bring these crooks to their knees and end their reign over our beaches and over our banks. Drug addicts can peacefully do drugs and suffer and die if they choose and we can live in peace free from this violent nonsense that has one effect-a reduction of our freedom, civil libertys and the creation of profit centers from illegal drug trade.

We do not accept this false war. We do not want them here. We don't need an illegal drug trade we need legal drug trade. We don't need increased drug prisons, and more people in slave labor camps. Enough. Drug war is a terror war.

False drug war

Dave - 10-28-2008 at 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
We the people want legal drug trade which will immediately put these guys out of the business of being illegal along with the illegal laundering banks and corrupt para-military. By sheer definition the criminalization of drug trade causes violence and gang activity.

Think the cartels will go away if drugs are legal? I don't remember the Mafia disappearing when prohibition was repealed.

The TJ cartels are increasing their involvement in kidnapping and extortion. Maybe we should just legalize that? :rolleyes:

False drug war

gnukid - 10-28-2008 at 10:27 AM

The USA has a vast security network. We have detailed satellite imagery which can identify a cesna plane en route, we have massive and ever expanding security, a larger military than all countries combined. So where do these drugs come from? Do you really think that the tons and tons of drugs are shipped secretly? All the while, CIA planes are identified with tons of cocaine-more than 30 tons in recent reports. Countless CIA whistleblowers have come forward only to be threatened by their agencies.

Yet many of you would prefer to allow this to continue?

What possible advantage is is to support a framework for illegal drug trade and profits? Who benefits and who suffers?

There are alternatives though we haven't even tried them, we can easily end this violent trade by managing it a legal and organized manner instead of a system that threatens every one of us and justifies continuous reduction of our civil liberties. And for whose benefit?

Do a simple test. Ask yourself is the US Government run Drug War making us feel safer and more secure or does it make you feel terrorized?

False drug war

gnukid - 10-28-2008 at 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Think the cartels will go away if drugs are legal?

The very moment we legalize drug trade and manage it in a secure fashion, is the moment the drug gangs, bank launderers, and para military violence will be brought to its knees. In one day to reduce their incomes will end their reign.

Question those who support illegal drug trade like Dave... Why?

False drug war

Dave - 10-28-2008 at 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Question those who support illegal drug trade like Dave... Why?

Those that do are the millions of Americans who use them.

They should be lined up and shot dead. Every... last... one of them.

False drug war

gnukid - 10-28-2008 at 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Those that do are the millions of Americans who use them.

They should be lined up and shot dead. Every... last... one of them.

You make my point far too well Dave.

Let's acknowledge that more than likely, we are of common needs and goals, we both want security and peaceful living. And its time for us to stop responding to threats and instead, think about what we want, its time to give thought to critical analysis, thoughtful discussion toward peace in our community. Instead of Problem-Reaction-Solution Terror Mindset-lets consider what you Dave can do to bring about a solution to end the support for illegal drug trade, the same trade which causes aggression toward peaceful people on the part of paramilitary and gangs. How can we end their income? How can monitor them? How can we end the massive illegal network? Dave?

False drug war

comitan - 10-28-2008 at 10:58 AM

Gnukid

Go for it! We will surely miss you.

False drug war

gnukid - 10-28-2008 at 12:04 PM

Its interesting that both Comitan and Dave insuate threats of violence while I advocate reduction of violence. On the other hand, I believe that we have common beliefs and common goals for peaceful living and productive communities.

At least we have a discussion, and we have stated our goals which are seemingly opposite, I believe that's a false paradigm, a trained reaction, while in fact we have everything in common and everything to gain through cooperation, Comitan, Dave and I. Either way, I respect our differences of opinion though I beg to differ, we are together in this one, we suffer equally. Let's find common ground, work for peaceful, intelligent solutions which reduce harm to bystanders, reduce profitability to criminals and reduce costs for militarization and prisons for our community? Ok?

False drug war

Dave - 10-28-2008 at 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Its interesting that both Comitan and Dave insuate threats of violence

I don't threaten. The only folks I wish ill are criminals...Like illegal drug users.

You aren't one of them, are you?

Of course, you do understand why I ask...

ALL illegal users support legalization.

False drug war

gnukid - 10-28-2008 at 12:48 PM

I want to thank Dave and Comitan for clearly illustrating the programed bias toward support of this violence and a lack of cohesion and cooperation in the community to reduce violence with a common voice

I do not blame them-they simply repeat what they are taught to say and they fail to open their minds to non-violent solutions. Here in the case of Dave and Comitan we see by extension the power of the politics of policy and psychology of drug trade.

Even within our community here we have proponents of violence and divisions-neighbor threatening neighbor, you see, the knee jerk response denies common sense and supports a psychology of turning on your neighbor and friend instead of saying no to the criminal gangs, because we can presume neighbors are weak and not a threat while criminals are a threat.

If we could only see that the mentality demonstrated by Dave and Comitan clearly support the drug trade and fails to support neighbors. We as neighbors are immensely powerful, we hold all the power, we only give it up through statements of division and threats on neighbors without using our common sense.

Lets chill out and think about what we want our community to look like in the future.

False drug war

comitan - 10-28-2008 at 01:35 PM

Gnukid

You don't seem to understand my posts. I DO NOT SUPPORT DRUG TRADE OR DRUG USE. I have lived a long and enjoyable life I'm Not about to get involved in trying to correct a problem that is not of my doing or my responsibility. As I'm sure you have read about the killings, beheadings, etc. that is not my desire. If you want to get involved and take your chances be my guest.

Go for it! We will miss you. (do you understand this now?)

False drug war

gnukid - 10-28-2008 at 02:24 PM

Comitan,

Are you so afraid that instead of standing up to fight for what you love and believe in you would rather compromise your values, live in fear and discourage critical thought and positive discussion of obvious solutions.

I respect your right to your opinion, but I maintain my point, you are part of the reinforcement mechanism that supports the violent drug trade, and in doing so you attempt to destruct our power and strength which is in out unity, our numbers and our common values and belief.

Clearly you have had time to think about the outcomes, those in the past, present and future, which avenue do you choose? Do you prefer to live in fear, making divisive comments, distractions from rational thought? Or do you prefer to reconsider your position, reassert your power, stand up for what you believe and simply say no, Not in my town, No More Illegal Drug War, No More Paramilitary, No More funding of drug agents, No More Prisons. All our efforts shall be aligned toward a common solution, all moneys spent shall be toward positive benefits to our community. All effort shall be to reduce to profitability and funding of drug cartel militias and their violence and instead we will manage a peaceful non-violent well managed pharmacy which distributes drugs with out a massive crime syndicate. No more illegal drug profit and no more drug funded para military.

Today, Neighbor, at least think about it, think about changes in policy, think about your knee jerk response and their role in this and think about what you can do for your community.

Do not be afraid. There is nothing to fear to fight for peace in the community.

False drug war

comitan - 10-28-2008 at 02:30 PM

Gnukid

I have made my point as best I can, it seems that this discussion is going nowhere so will end it now.

False drug war

gnukid - 10-28-2008 at 03:32 PM

I recall quite well a short time ago, as our community successfully joined together to support incarceration of criminal activity by drug addicts, you ridiculed that as well as did Skeet. Even though, as a member here I was only reporting the steps the community took, a petition, gathering evidence, court orders, federal demands to the state to enforce the orders, testimony by witnesses and how our courage and relentless courage in the face of the issues, discouraging comments from many, eventually we succeeded in prosecuting the crimes not the drug use.

The very families and children of the criminals praised the actions to help the addicts.

What will it take for you to see, the only veiled threats that we received were from the criminals and from people like you, as you have done today, again.

I am not blaming you, only pointing out the obvious, as you have demonstrated, that it is the fabric of our community which is our strength, our convictions. We have nothing but our compassion for others and desire for peace to drive the effort to return peace to our community.

I am asking you to join in our movement, to support non-violence, to support better solutions than those offered through para-military warefare and to support our community first through an end to illegal drug trade by one simple action, say no to the false war on drugs. Say yes to peaceful living through a more humane policy, end your knee jerk insinuations, end your support for the insane unsuccessful drug war.

At least consider the issue and if you have no solutions keep your insinuations of impending violence to yourself, it is offensive, non-constructive and totally unhelpful to our cause.

And while you are at it, how about saying, "I will do more and get involved I won't be so negative and insinuate that positive actions shall result in violence. I was wrong."

False drug war

comitan - 10-28-2008 at 04:11 PM

Gnukid

One more time, I live in Comitan . About Comitan if you don't know. There is a wide mix of people and many Mexican families, I would have to say that everyone that lives here is affluent, and to the best of my knowledge there is no drug dealing in Comitan. I think there is quite a difference in the locals that we live, even though its La Paz. The only thing we have been involved in lately (the Colonos) is getting the streets blocked with one entrance with a video cameras. This is to make Comitan safer and the City of La Paz has agreed to do these changes. Now do you expect me to come into your area of crime, dopers, et.al. and try to put an end to your problem.

False drug war

Bajajack - 10-28-2008 at 04:16 PM

long enough to have gotten to know all kinds of users and there ain't nothing in this world that will stop them from using until they actually want to and that hardly ever happens.

They will get it one way or another so it may as well be legalized or at least decriminalized, at least then the purity could be controlled and would reduce deaths from using bad sh*t.

False drug war

gnukid - 10-28-2008 at 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan Now do you expect me to come into your area of crime, dopers, et.al. and try to put an end to your problem.

It appears that your attempt to obfuscate is running out of illusions or you are facetious however, I appreciate you illustrating my argument so clearly.

No one wants you to do anything anywhere you do not want to do, in particular I asked you clearly to stop making negative distracting comments from our basic discussion. Now I can see you are committed to distraction and not to discussion or to solutions. That's disappointing.

I support your desire to stay out of the effort to end the drug war so do it, stay out, keep your negative insinuations of impending violence to yourself.

While you insist on nonsense, I maintain, we remain committed to ending the drug war, we are the community of common ideals, we are committed to nonviolence except that we will protect our communities with every means necessary.

We will not be distracted by expats like yourself who who post negative divisive comments and we will not be intimidated by expats who insinuate that violence awaits those who oppose drug violence.

Again, I ask you and Dave to apologize for your words earlier which evoked images of impending doom for those who oppose the drug cartels violence.

I ask you kindly to reconsider your words and actions, to look for commonality among all communities, while you remain at home, you have power in your thoughts and words.

You are empowered through critical analysis to question what is happening in the drug war. Apparently you have mindset which is commit to defeatism while our community is eternally optimistic.

I am committed to pursuit of an alternative, I have learned from everyone else here, as I have from your defeatist position, just as I have learned from those on the beaches to the highest mountains in Baja, we have common interests, we are many, we are powerful in our communal thoughts, our beliefs and actions can end the drug war the very moment we put our minds to it.

False drug war

Dave - 10-28-2008 at 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Again, I ask you and Dave to apologize for your words earlier which evoked images of impending doom for those who oppose the drug cartels violence.

Images of impending doom? This ain't a "Indiana Jones" sequel. I'm not against those who oppose the cartels violence. Never said any such thing.

Quote:

I am committed to pursuit of an alternative, I have learned from everyone else here, as I have from your defeatist position, just as I have learned from those on the beaches to the highest mountains in Baja, we have common interests, we are many, we are powerful in our communal thoughts, our beliefs and actions can end the drug war the very moment we put our minds to it.

Now you're channeling Dr. Martin Luther King.

Are you high...Right now?

You seem to be suggesting some sort of Gandhi like action against the cartels. These guys aren't the British army. They will kill you.

You might want to go back, read and edit this when you sober up. Then perhaps alter the vision quest thing a bit.

False drug war

gnukid - 10-28-2008 at 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Question those who support illegal drug trade like Dave... Why?

Those that do are the millions of Americans who use them.

They should be lined up and shot dead. Every... last... one of them.

You said it. I guess its hard to see how you come across on the internet or recognize your words for what they are, threatening impending violence.

Can you understand why we would object to your tone here, as well as your denial? I am asking you to tone it down and apologize for suggesting violence, its inappropriate and against our Terms of Service.

False drug war

gnukid - 10-28-2008 at 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Are you high...Right now?

You seem to be suggesting some sort of Gandhi like action against the cartels. These guys aren't the British army. They will kill you.

You might want to go back, read and edit this when you sober up. Then perhaps alter the vision quest thing a bit.

Your comments are out of line and insulting.

What makes you so certain that anyone who opposes the drug violence is meant to die?

Its a threat, you could be banned permanently from this site for your words so far and if you persist you shall.

Finally, the threat of violence is just that a threat. In any case, you must decide to live your life making threats or living your life. I believe that life is worth living with conviction. That a life lived is a life of a conviction.

The moment that we as a group can stand together we shall end this false war. It doesn't require confrontation it requires a mindset for solutions as opposed to repeating violent threats.

A reminder if you persist to make any threats you may be banned permanently. I will make the call if necessary.

False drug war

comitan - 10-28-2008 at 07:01 PM

:?:

False drug war

Dave - 10-28-2008 at 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Can you understand why we would object to your tone here, as well as your denial? I am asking you to tone it down and apologize for suggesting violence, its inappropriate and against our Terms of Service.

I speak for myself. You speak for many? Or are you King Nukid, using the royal "we"?

Second:

You said," I ask you and Dave to apologize for your words earlier which evoked images of impending doom for those who oppose the drug cartels violence".

Now you're saying criminals, illegal drug users who I want shot, are opposed to drug cartel violence? ARE U DAFT? These people are the cartels best friends. They keep them in business. They don't know or care that the cartels are violent. All they care about is getting high. They are evil, self-centered a$$holes who are traitors to America.

You want them to legally provide them with a high. I want them dead.

We differ...C'est la vie.

False drug war

UnoMas - 10-28-2008 at 07:22 PM

Wiley:
Sorry if I caught you off guard, but just replying to Hook's post on the first page, but thing's have truly digressed since then..........Seems like this post needs to be in off topic now.

False drug war

Dave - 10-28-2008 at 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Your comments are out of line and insulting.

What makes you so certain that anyone who opposes the drug violence is meant to die?

Its a threat, you could be banned permanently from this site for your words so far and if you persist you shall.

Finally, the threat of violence is just that a threat. In any case, you must decide to live your life making threats or living your life. I believe that life is worth living with conviction. That a life lived is a life of a conviction.

The moment that we as a group can stand together we shall end this false war. It doesn't require confrontation it requires a mindset for solutions as opposed to repeating violent threats.

A reminder if you persist to make any threats you may be banned permanently. I will make the call if necessary.

Again, I made NO threat against anyone who opposes drug violence. I support anyone who fights drug violence AND I have personally made no threat, of ANY KIND against anyone here. You are confused...seriously!!

False drug war

CaboRon - 10-28-2008 at 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Question those who support illegal drug trade like Dave... Why?

Those that do are the millions of Americans who use them.

They should be lined up and shot dead. Every... last... one of them.

Are you out of your mind .... you want to shoot millions of Americans .... what a psychopath ....

Dave you have gone over the edge.

False drug war

Dave - 10-28-2008 at 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
Are you out of your mind .... you want to shoot millions of Americans .... what a psychopath ....

Dave you have gone over the edge.

I want our legal system to execute them. Would favor legislation to have them shot. Never would happen but one can dream...can't one? :lol:

Wouldn't have to actually kill 'em all. Just a few hundred. The rest would pi$$ their pants and sober up.

False drug war

BajaGringo - 10-28-2008 at 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Question those who support illegal drug trade like Dave... Why?

Those that do are the millions of Americans who use them.

They should be lined up and shot dead. Every... last... one of them.

Are you out of your mind .... you want to shoot millions of Americans .... what a psychopath ....

Dave you have gone over the edge.

You're right Ron - it does seem a bit "over the edge". However if we must start with somebody how about Russ Limbaugh???

:lol:

False drug war

Sharksbaja - 10-28-2008 at 11:43 PM

What about all those card-carrying pot smokers? Oh, those are legal prescription drugs. Ah wtf, kill em anyhoo. NOT!

Get a grip man.