Instead of asking people to guess where this waterfall is, I'd like to know if anyone knows of a bigger one? It must have water flowing over it all
year to qualify.
This waterfall is in Canyon de Medio, and very hard to get to. I have never looked into the pool at the base of this fall as I don't have the climbing
skill. My best guess is that it is around a 60 feet drop, possibly more. This foto was taken early last Sept. I would love to be there for a "Nora"
sized rainfall to see what it looks like. Note the 5 ft. tall boulder, opposite the waterfall, that has been tossed to the other side of the canyon.
burro bobStephanie Jackter - 5-18-2004 at 09:32 AM
My hunch would be that the only true year round falls would be located in the Sierra de La Laguna. - Stephanie
Other waterfalls
bajalou - 5-18-2004 at 10:03 AM
Great shot Rob - how many miles up canyon is it? I think you have the most knowledge of these Sierra San Pedro Matir east canyons from all of you
explorations. What is the next highest you have seen? As all these canyons have year round water, I expect all but the very lowest falls would
also be flowing yearround.
Waterfalls
jrbaja - 5-18-2004 at 10:09 AM
There are actually quite a lot of year round cascadas in Baja but I haven't seen any taller than the one shown. That is a great picture and now, I
will keep looking for taller ones.Mexitron - 5-18-2004 at 10:17 AM
The El Salto Falls on the Rio San Antonio are supposed to be big and have year round flow--Jack Swords knows a little more about this, including if I
got the name right. This is a westerly flowing stream off the San Pedro Martir that eventually goes into the Rio Santo Domingo by San Quintin.
Donde es "Canyon de Medio" ?
Barry A. - 5-18-2004 at 12:06 PM
BB----I thought I knew the canyons of the San Pedro Martir, but you have me stumped on this one. I checked the "Almanac" atlas, and still cannot find
"Canon de Medio". Can you be a little more specific? Beautiful shot, by the way. I cannot make out the 5 foot boulder that you refer to, tho.
There is a beautiful waterfall up in Canon Guadalupe (east face of the Sierra Juarez), but it certainly is not 60 feet tall, and may not flow 100% of
the time. Also, Canada el Diablo (east face of Picacho del Diablo) has some spectacular water falls, I am told, but have not actually seen. BarryDavid K - 5-18-2004 at 06:05 PM
Hi Barry... you seem to be having a good time here on Nomad!
The Almanac doesn't list them all... the older/bigger Atlas lists some... But, John Robinson's 'Camping and Climbing in Baja' (La Siesta Press c1967)
and Bruce Barber's new '...Of Sea and Sand' has them all. First spelling listed is off Robinson's map, second is Barber's, third is the Atlas, when
different.
San Pedro Martir's Canyons, south of Diablo, starting at the east foot of Diablo mountain and going south:
PROVIDENCIA
TULARE
TELEDO
de MEDIO/ en MEDIO/ ENMEDIO
el OSO
el CAJON
BARROSA/ BARROSO
el RUBI
CARDONAL
AGUA CALIENTE
CARRIZO
VERENDA/ el BERRENDO
PARRAL
MATOMI
[Edited on 5-19-2004 by David K]Mexitron - 5-18-2004 at 06:29 PM
Wow, I better get busy exploring---I haven't even been to half of those! Thanks David. Any mention of the Rio San Antonio falls in your books?David K - 5-18-2004 at 06:47 PM
San Antonio Falls are a series of cascades and shear drops, falling a total of 1,500 feet off the San Pedro Martir's western escarpment. The single
largest fall is about 80 feet. During heavy rains the year-round waterfall takes on 'Yosemite-like grandeur' ... (above from Camping and Climbing in
Baja by John Robinson, 1983 edition).
Graham Mackintosh hiked to the falls in 1996 and wrote about it... posted in his web site (not in his books): http://grahammackintosh.com/stories2.html He quotes from Robinson's book as well...
[Edited on 5-19-2004 by David K]
Cascadas en Baja
jrbaja - 5-18-2004 at 08:23 PM
It doesn't list them all David and when there are heavy rains, ya wouldn't even believe how many and magnificent they can be. And there's a bunch!!
I'm here (Rosarito) for two weeks o menos. Got time for a pastrami ?
Great Picture
bajalou - 5-18-2004 at 09:49 PM
Great shot of those falls jr
I have been "to the water" in all of those canyons David listed except Cardonal and Rubi. They were fenced off at the road so haven't gone in. As
the summer wears on, you have to go farther west into the canyons to find the water but I always have. All but the Matomi drain into Valle Chico.
Valle Chick drains underground down the Huatamote to the Sea of Cortez near Percebu. The Matomi drains directly into the sea of Cortez. Much of the
water comes from the winter snows of which we have not had very much of the last few years. In 96/97 (I think) there was so much snow that Hghy 3 to
Ensenada was closed because of it for 3 days.
Also, in the summer - July-Aug-Sep it rains almost every day in the Sierra. Often showers come on into the valley but rarely come east of the Sierra
San Felipe. One 4th of July, I, my daughter and her husband and their children thought we were going to freeze when we got caught in the showers
coming back from Chinalito. The kids had swam in the pila there to cool off and then we got hit with the cold rain. Wouldn't expect it to feel so
cold but it does as the humidity is about 5% so evaporation really cools you.
Each of the canyons is different so there really is a lot to see on this side.
And even if you don't find water, you might find something else to admire.
Waterfalls
jrbaja - 5-18-2004 at 10:04 PM
Thanks Lou. I am starting a waterfall section in my MSN Group http://groups.msn.com/TheBajasBestGuidesPhotoAlbum because of this thread started by Burro Bob. Thanks burro !
I travel regularly into the back country of Baja and have not really been interested in photos of waterfalls but caves and other things have been
the priority.
I know of many that I have not visited but here are some examples of my laziness. This area is supposed to have some nice ones down below but I
didn't check them out. Next time for sure.burro bob - 5-19-2004 at 12:32 PM
Darn, jrbaja your picture isn't showing on my puter, just an x.
Lou, this is the biggest single drop that I have found. It is about a 3 mile hike to get to a huge pool. It is bigger than any swiing pool at any
hotel in San Felipe. Then you have to scramble up the side of a very steep loose rock slope to get to this view.
Maybe I should start a new thread for this, but I don't agree with your list David.
My names come from the ranchers that work out there. I have asked 4 different ranchers the names of the canyons. They all come up with the same names
with minor variations. Starting the same place you did I have.
Provedincia
Toledo (not Teledo)
de Medio/ en Medio
Arenoso, shortened via Baja Norte slang to Oso by some.
A canyon with no name
Cajon
Barroso
el Rubi
la Gringa
Agua Caliente
I never asked them to name the canyons further south.
Now I am sure many of you are saying why is there a Canyon No Name just to the north of Cajon. It all depends on how you decide to count canyons. Do
you count the mouths or do you count only those that have a watershed that that make it to the divide. In this case it is the watershed method. The
canyon mouth just north of Cajon has no name because it does not drain to the divide. I don't care what your map says, it is wrong. The upper arm of
Canyon Cajon clearly cuts off this drainage from the divide.
None of them ever called any canyon Tulare.
burro bob
That's the difference
jrbaja - 5-19-2004 at 12:57 PM
between actually going there and spending a little time with people that know of what they speak or getting the information out of inaccurate maps and
guidebooks.
I travel regularly in all parts of Baja including mostly in the back country. I had the extreme good luck of having Herb join me on one of the trips
and we found the "new" Baja Almanac to be so wrong in so many places I was shocked.
Same on most all of my trips into the back country. They just didn't bother to do their research and obviously didn't care. Down here it's called
Huevones.
I love most all books about Baja but there are so many hurriedly put together, incomplete and inaccurate guides being thrown together these days for
the almighty dollar for the Gringos.
I bet not one dime of all those brilliantly composed books go to the Mexican people.
Take no offense Don Bernie and the others who actually do help the Mexicans with their work. You know who you are and you have my utmost respect.
The rest is thrown together garbage that probably won't help in the least. Especially incorrect maps and guides.
tall waterfall??
thebajarunner - 5-19-2004 at 04:50 PM
Does 13 guys standing at the edge of the cliff, after a long session of beer drinking, count for "tall waterfall"???
(look out below)
Baja Arrriba!!
Canyon Names
Taco de Baja - 5-21-2004 at 01:19 PM
Burro bob said
>>>>Maybe I should start a new thread for this, but I don't agree with your list David.
My names come from the ranchers that work out there. I have asked 4 different ranchers the names of the canyons. They all come up with the same names
with minor variations. Starting the same place you did I have.
Provedincia
Toledo (not Teledo)
de Medio/ en Medio
Arenoso, shortened via Baja Norte slang to Oso by some.
A canyon with no name
Cajon
Barroso
el Rubi
la Gringa
Agua Caliente <<<<
Well, Canyon names often change. But here is a list of name I got form my father, who had extensively traveled in the northern portion of Baja for
many many years, before he passed away in 2000 (shortly after a trip to Baja, infact). I believe his first trip was in the 1920's with his dad (No
wonder I've goe baja in my blood). His names also came from ranchers and possibly early Auto Club maps, as those ofter were the only maps available,
before the Mexicam Gov. released the topo maps. He also led numerous Sierra Club trips into many of these canyons, back when the San Diego chapter
went to Baja, and before they became a political group rather than a club of hikers and campers. So in the same order from north to south (with some
of his notes):
Canyon del Diablo - Approx 1/2 mile from mouth of canyon is famous King's Bathtub - sometime full of sand (elev. 700m) always lots of
water though. Must hike approx 2 miles overland to even get to mouth.
Provedencia - Good water, hard cross country drive to mouth. After mile or so becomes steep narrow and full of big rocks.
Teledo - Road is on north side of the mouth, petroglyphs on rock on north side near the mouth, nice pool and waterfall ~2 mile up
canyon.
Tulare - not visited.
En Medio - Big canyon, nice for the first mile, then very steep. Bud Bernard says canyon has been used to climb Provedencia from the
south.
Oso - Big Canyon, poor quality water low down, many big pools farther up, pines on the sides of the canyon.
El Cajon - Huge, south fork has trail to La Encantada. Position of south fork is utm: 6-60-100E, 34-15-600 N.
Algodon - Two small groves of palms on hillside, first palms south of the Sierra Juarez...look with binoculars, not worth the hike.
La Gringa - not visited.
Agua Caliente - Nice hot springs with a few palms 1.5 miles from mouth, many palms in all branches, old ag settlement almost gone.
Carrizo - Huge sand wash, very soft sand, palms in upper reaches.
Berrendo - Very soft sand, blue palms high on cliffs.
Parril (Paral) - beautiful area around rancho, often times there is a locked gate blocking access.
Matomi - Usually year round water at rancho, many palms and pools up canyon.
Now that's interesting !
jrbaja - 5-21-2004 at 01:27 PM
Thanks Taco
Here's another
jrbaja - 5-21-2004 at 01:35 PM
Not 'My' list
David K - 5-21-2004 at 03:56 PM
Unless you are meaning the list I posted... which is only compiled from three sources, albeit the best sources I have.
The worst source was the Mexican Topo... that is the least amount of canyon information as it appears in the Baja Atlas and Almanac. Neither book's
were using American drawn maps, but used Mexico's topo maps... which explains why both jr and I saw so many mistakes in the same books.
In John Robinson's topo map he has them listed as:
PROVIDENCIA
TULARE
TELEDO
de MEDIO
El OSO
El CAJON
BARROSA
El RUBI
CARDONAL
AGUA CALIENTE
In Robinson's text he only describes El Cajon and Agua Caliente of the above listed canyons.
Bruce Barber's new book "...of Sand and Sand", has a ton of canyon details and he seems to have researched the names pretty well...
Bruce has details on:
PROVIDENCIA
TULARE (Bruce says this is a FALSE canyon)
TELEDO (misspelled Toledo on some maps, he says)
EN MEDIO (with 20 foot and 60 foot waterfalls)
OSO (an 'L' shaped canyon)
CAJON (the largest watershed in the San Pedro Martir, except for Matomi)
BARROSO (6 foot and 15 foot waterfalls)
AGUA CALIENTE (hot sulfur springs, cool mountain stream)
Local amigo Pepe Garcia was with Bruce on many of his research trips.
Note: I am sharing the information I have in my library, I am not an expert or pretending to be one (as someone implied). I have been in only two of
the canyons in the above lists ... that hardly makes me an expert on them. I try and constantly learn more and that is why I am here... to learn, and
share what I have.
[Edited on 5-21-2004 by David K]
Tallest Waterfall in Baja...
RandyMacSC/SO - 5-22-2004 at 05:11 AM
I'm probably gonna wear it for this one.
Doug should institute a rule: No late night drinking and drawing allowed on BN.
[Edited on 5-22-2004 by RandyMac]
Great Posts and Pictures
academicanarchist - 5-22-2004 at 05:35 AM
Interesting. You can see why the Dominicans were tempted to establish a mission in the Sierra, San Pedro Martir.burro bob - 5-23-2004 at 10:57 AM
Canyon name again.
Baja Taco, very interesting list especially since your father describes what he found there. I agree that names change which is why we end up with
threads like this. A good example of this is your use of the name 'Providencia' for the tallest mountain in Baja. I have always called it Cerro
Encantada. The ranchers out in Valle Chico only call it Picacho del Diablo when they are speaking to a gringo. The rest of the time, amoungest
themselves they refer to it as Encantada.
David K, I appreciate your posts even though I don't agree with your list. Thanks to forums like this we can see where we disagree and work towards
making more accurate maps. At least we now no that we might not necessarily be talking about the same canyon.
I have been debating the names of these central canyons with Bruce for many years now. Even he agrees in his book that he had the names wrong for many
years. Now he says Tulare canyon is a false one between Toledo and Providencia. Problem is there are no canyon mouths, large or small, false or real
between those two.
Again the problem comes from trying to give every canyon mouth a name, something the locals don't do.
I was the person with Bruce when he got stranded in canyon de Medio when he left his ignition on. I am not sure why he calls me Vic. He had hard wire
his lights to the ignition so they would always be on when he was driving. A good survival tactic for the paved world but a bad one for off roading.
After a short hike we came back to find a dead battery and no hope of pushing it through the deep sand we had parked in. I hiked out to the ranch in
the middle of the valle to find Vincente Torres. He jumped up right away when I told him we had a "muerte bateria in Canyon Toledo" Remember he
thought that was the name of the canyon at the time.
We were halfway there when I realized that Vincente thought he was going to pick up a dead body. He was disapointed to find out it was only a pila.
When we got to the road to where we were stranded he drives right on by. When I told him he just passed the road he gave me a glance you would reserve
for marooons and said this isn't canyon Toledo. Thats when I figured out that Bruce had the names wrong.
I found the maps in Bruces book to be worthless. Several are unreadable and he neglects to pair numbers on maps with canyon names on others. An
indication to me that he is still confused.
burro bob
Baja Taco's Dad
Barry A. - 5-23-2004 at 01:24 PM
Baja Taco------I too spent many a day with Edward "Bud" Bernhard of Coronado, and the San Diego Chapter of the Sierra Club, investigating the canyons
in question back in the late 50's, and 60's. What was your Dad's name?----I may have known him. My name is Barry Ashworth, and my aunt was Becky
McSheehy, if that name means anything to you. Barry
Just to confuse things further, I am looking at a hand-drawn map by Bud Bernhard that he made on Dec. 12, 1963. This map was made to order for Al
Schmitz of the San Diego Chapter of the Sierra Club, from memory. Here is the way, and order, Bud listed the canyon names, starting on the north with
Teledo on the flanks of "El Picacho Del Diablo":
Teledo---
La Medio---
El Oso---
El Cajon---
Expanza---
Rubi---
Condonal---
Algodones---
Negoa---
Agua Caliente---
Barrosa---
Carrizo---
Parral---
Matomi---Mexitron - 5-23-2004 at 07:39 PM
Hi Barry--BajaTaco is Brooks Smith, and his dad was Myron Smith, who we talked about in some emails a month or two ago during the preps for the San
Pedro Martir Mission venture, which Brooks was along on!!
Oh, yeah!!! My memory is like a steel trap
Barry A. - 5-23-2004 at 08:22 PM
Thank you, that is correct, and now it all comes back to me. Sorry about that. bajataco - 5-23-2004 at 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Mexitron
Hi Barry--BajaTaco is Brooks Smith...
Uh oh. Just to clarify, so there is no confusion... there is a BajaTaco (me) and now Baja Taco (Brooks).
Chris, while you were typing this, see what I posted in the Baja Obsession thread!
bajataco
Taco de Baja - 5-24-2004 at 08:10 AM
"Yo quero dos tacos de baja por favor".....
And we both drive Tacos too....
[Edited on 5-24-2004 by Baja Taco]
Barry A.
Taco de Baja - 5-24-2004 at 08:20 AM
As Mexitron said my dad was Myron Smith.
I remember going on many trips to Baja as a kid with your Aunt Becky McSheehy as welll as many of the old Sierra Club people like Laurence and Ivy
Foster, Bud Berhard, the Stalnackers (sp?), etc. I recall your Aunt Becky had a really cool red and white Toyota Landcruser (1970's era +/-).
BT--1979 red and white Toyota Land Cruiser
Barry A. - 5-24-2004 at 01:24 PM
BT-------You are right, Becky had that Land Cruiser for many years. She sold it about 12 years ago, not telling anybody in the family that she was
doing so. She sold it to a Ford dealer in Chula Vista for $2000. It was worth at least $8K---only had 65K miles on it. We were really dismayed. She
traded it for a Ford Escort car, but never drove the car. She passed away just after that. When she decided that she could no longer go 4-wheeling,
she just gave up living. I knew all the folks you referred to very well, especially Laurence and Ivy Foster, and of course, Bud. Thanks for your
reply. Fun stuff. bajataco - 5-25-2004 at 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Taco
...And we both drive Tacos too....
No way! Is that how you came up with the "Taco" ? That is how I ended up with
it.Don Jorge - 5-26-2004 at 10:03 AM
Baja Taco,
Your dad is a legend in these parts amongst me and my friends. I enjoyed his visits to our farmstand and his stories of Baja in the good old days.
We miss him. His passing seems like the ending of an era in these parts. Deep down he was a farmer as he could b-tch and moan about prices and
theft with the best of us.
Do you have photos of your dad's trips? If so I would love to see them sometime!
Regards, Jorge
Don Jorge
Taco de Baja - 5-26-2004 at 12:37 PM
Have tons of Baja pictures, my dad took over the years. Trouble is the vast majority are slides.David K - 5-26-2004 at 06:01 PM
Brooks, if you would consider it... how about selecting a bunch to show the Baja that you and your dad shared memories of and we can do a slide show
at the next Viva Baja party? Your dad was indeed one of the early pioneers of modern Baja exploration.
Old Baja slide show
Taco de Baja - 5-27-2004 at 10:22 AM
Sure, although many of the photos are from the 40-60's well before my time. Many are labeled, although some are not.
Maybe a good time to have a "where was this photo taken?"
I know many are of the San Felipe and surrounding area, the Laguna Salada palm canyons, as well as the Estero and Punta Banda area. My mom is
remodeling here house, so I don't know the exact location of the photos at this time.
Many if not most are in the old rectangular magazines and not the current round magazines.Mexitron - 5-27-2004 at 10:28 AM
Baja Taco is now "Taco de Baja"....thanks Brooks--that makes things a bit easier....
New name
Taco de Baja - 5-27-2004 at 11:38 AM
Yea, I just wanted to make it easier for others to differentiate between the two tacos, so I changed my name since bajataco had the name primero.
Yet another list of canyon names...
David K - 5-30-2004 at 04:41 PM
Hi guys, while my son was riding his dirt bike in Ocotillo Wells, I finished the book 'Where The Old West Never Died' by Paul Sanford c1968. This is
the Meling Ranch story as told by Bertie Johnson Meling, in 1966.
Miss Bertie tells how her father (Harry Johnson) would prospect in the canyons around "Pedro" (short for Sierra San Pedro Martir).
On page 48:
<<<< The canyon to the north of the high peak called La Providencia is called Diablo Canyon. Then going around the Sierra San Pedro Martir to the
right (clockwise) is Canyon Esperanza which dries up in the summer, Arroyo Copal which has good water - Mr. Gilbert had a ranch there; then Canyon
Providencia on the east; Canyon Toleta, then Canyon de Medio, where Salve kept a heard of cattle for several years. Now he has a few horses over there
(1966). Then comes El Cajon, which is a fine place to camp and has a good trail down from the top of Pedro. Sheepmen usually use that canyon to get up
and down the mountain.
Canyon Algodones (cotton) has a spring at the bottom of the mountain with pastures and corrals. No one seems to know how cotton seed got into the
lower canyon but it still grows there in less dry years. Canyon Cardonal is east-south-east of the high ridge and always has water - and cardon
cactus.
Incidentally, the peak named La Providencia on most maps, is sometimes called El Diablo Peak. That name is far mor romantic for climbers and resue
parties. It has been named in the news several times in the past few years as mountain climbers have tackled it in wintertime. >>>>
The book goes on about Mision San Pedro Martir in the next paragraph...
Great stuff... Just thought you would be interested... There is more about how the San Felipe desert outside Canyon El Cajon had evidence of being
much greener in the past, with large tree trunks/roots on the desert floor...
I also finished Bernie's new book (Bouncing Around Baja)! More in another thread...
[Edited on 5-30-2004 by David K]burro bob - 6-1-2004 at 12:45 PM
The only consistant thing about all these lists of names for the Canyons of the eastern escarpment of the Sierra San Pedro Martir is that they are all
diferent.
I have yet to see any two maps with the same set of names and as we see from all the different lists none of them match either. Also it appears that
even the locals change the names from time to time.
Only three appear to always get the same name, Agua Caliente, Cajon, and Diablo, the three most recognizable canyons in the range. The rest probably
should just be known by their GPS co-ordinates at the mouth.
burro bob
Another name
bajalou - 6-1-2004 at 06:22 PM
I have a map from 1905/6 from E.W.Neslon's survey of lower Califorina for the National Acadamy of Sciences that calls what we know as Cajon by the
name of Santa Rosa. It also shows trail said to be used by sheep herders from the Santa Rosa meadow thru the canyon and across the Valle San Felipe
to the pass we use now to get to the valley (Saltito Rd). Also it shows a trail down what we call Agua Caliente with the name Carrizo. A trail
leading north to the Santa Rosa trail and another south to Matomi.
This book, Lower California And It's Natural Resources, has great detail of Nelson's servey of Lower Calif. 1905-06. Not published till 1919, so has
some updates for that time reference.
Is that how you came up with the "Taco" ? That is how I ended up with
it.
