BajaNomad - Baja Governor shifts blame to U.S. for "arms trafficking"

Baja Governor shifts blame to U.S. for "arms trafficking"

Dave - 11-14-2008 at 09:07 PM

And just who is responsible for defending Mexico's borders, Governor?

Unfrickingbelievable. :biggrin:

TIJUANA – Baja California Gov. José Guadalupe Osuna Millán yesterday called on U.S. officials to “cease their tolerance of arms trafficking” into Mexico, urging the incoming Obama administration to halt the southbound weapons flow.

“The United States also has a responsibility here to put things into balance,” Osuna said. “Who's causing greater harm to whom? Is it the migrants who with great pains come to work in that country, or is it the tens of thousands of weapons that cross the border, from north to south?”

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20081113-9...

Arms Heading South ?

MrBillM - 11-15-2008 at 12:25 AM

Perhaps it is the responsibility of the recipient country to police their borders better. They sure spend enough time trolling for Mordida making sure I'm not bringing too much food, drink, gasoline ar electronics into their country. Maybe they need a little more effort on the important stuff.

If they can't control the Drugs and People Leaving Mexico, why should they expect we can control the guns going South ?

Put your own house in order.

LOSARIPES - 11-15-2008 at 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Perhaps it is the responsibility of the recipient country to police their borders better. They sure spend enough time trolling for Mordida making sure I'm not bringing too much food, drink, gasoline ar electronics into their country. Maybe they need a little more effort on the important stuff.

If they can't control the Drugs and People Leaving Mexico, why should they expect we can control the guns going South ?

Put your own house in order.

Should this apply to northbound drug traffic as well? Applying this reasoning would certainly simplify this for Mexico, letting the US worry and "police their borders better"

Bronco - 11-15-2008 at 06:11 AM

I travel twice a month in a large 3500 cargo van. One side of the van has windows that are tinted. On the northbound toll road at Rosarito I never get checked by the faux military checkpoint. When I return to Baja in a few days I have had one cursory glance and that's it. This time frame would be in the last couple of years. I am a senior with reading glasses hanging on my neck. In summer its shorts and tee shirts and winter its sweatshirt and Levis. I guess its the perfect profile of an ol' gringo that's the key.
Lately when Im sitting at the linea in the #23 or 24 lane I watch the cars
in secondary "pathetic"!!!! Going across into the states is the pain.

Where are the long lines that leave Baja daily that never seem to appear at the linea returning??????

Maybe its the mountain routes or the desert that is where the smuggling takes place. Surely not the boats coming ashore.

CaboRon - 11-15-2008 at 08:09 AM

What a crock ... I read his statement also.

We do not inspect autos going into Mexico .....

That would seem to be the responsibility of the Mexican gov't...

Give us Baja California and we will be responsible for this mess...

I dream of a bullet train from Las Vegas to Cabo San Lucas :lol:

Kick the bums out ....

Better La Baja should be US territory than Cartel territory :bounce:

CaboRon

It does

Dave - 11-15-2008 at 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LOSARIPES
Should this apply to northbound drug traffic as well? Applying this reasoning would certainly simplify this for Mexico, letting the US worry and "police their borders better"

The U.S. should bear full responsibility for its citizens use of illegal drugs. That's the reason for unreasonable wait times at the border. Mexican drug cartels simply provide product at the demand of the U.S. market. IMO, Mexico shouldn't care one bit. I know I don't.

Now...Mexicans smuggling weapons into Mexico to kill Mexicans...

Sounds like purely a Mexican problem to me.

mtgoat666 - 11-15-2008 at 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Now...Mexicans smuggling weapons into Mexico to kill Mexicans...

Sounds like purely a Mexican problem to me.

I thinks it's mostly US citizens buying guns in US for export to mexico, and who knows who does transporting, probably both gringos and mexicans.
gringos profit off drugs and guns -- it's as much a gringo problem as a mexican problem. unfortunately, the mexicans pay a higher price wrt deaths. as soon as deaths spill over to US soil, you will see gringos care. until then, gringos will only care about themselves. maybe the mexicans should start going after the gringos that are profiting -- mexicans should grab the gun manufacturers and salesmen when they are on vacation in Cabo spending their blood money on margaritas.

CG - 11-15-2008 at 11:23 PM

I guess its too hard to apply logic and reason to the problem and conclude that the drug scumbags are getting their arms from the same place that they get the drugs????

These are full auto military weapons we are talking about...you just can't walk into any gun store in the states and buy a box full of AK 47's and M4's for the trip down to good old Mexico...

Columbia has a large supply of military hardware and very few controls over where they end up. If you can have a big shipment of drugs send to you, I'd guess it wouldn't be too hard to have some weapons thrown in. :rolleyes:

mtgoat666 - 11-16-2008 at 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CG
I guess its too hard to apply logic and reason to the problem and conclude that the drug scumbags are getting their arms from the same place that they get the drugs????

These are full auto military weapons we are talking about...you just can't walk into any gun store in the states and buy a box full of AK 47's and M4's for the trip down to good old Mexico...

Columbia has a large supply of military hardware and very few controls over where they end up. If you can have a big shipment of drugs send to you, I'd guess it wouldn't be too hard to have some weapons thrown in. :rolleyes:

By Richard A. Serrano, Los Angeles Times, August 14, 2008

SIERRA VISTA, Ariz. — High-powered automatic weapons and ammunition are flowing virtually unchecked from border states into Mexico, fueling a war among drug traffickers, the army and police that has left thousands dead, according to U.S. and Mexican officials.

The munitions are hidden under trucks and stashed in the trunks of cars, or brazenly concealed under the clothing of pedestrians who walk across the international bridges. They are showing up in seizures and in the aftermath of shoot-outs between the cartels and police in Mexico.

More than 90 percent of guns seized at the border or after raids and shootings in Mexico have been traced to the United States, according to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Last year, 2,455 weapons traces requested by Mexico showed that guns had been purchased in the United States, according to ATF. Texas, Arizona and California accounted for 1,803 of the traces submitted by Mexican authorities.
.....
Tom Mangan, a senior ATF special agent in Arizona, compared the flow to reverse osmosis. "Just like the drugs that head north, (firearms move south)," he said. "The cartels are outfitting an army."

More than 6,700 licensed gun dealers have set up shop within a short drive of the 2,000-mile border, from the gulf coast of Texas to San Diego — which amounts to more than three dealers for every mile of border territory. Law enforcement has come to call the region an "iron river of guns."

And while U.S. political leaders and presidential candidates have focused rhetoric, money and time on stemming the northward flow of drugs and illegal immigrants, far less has been said and done about arms flowing south, largely from states with liberal gun laws, into a nation where only police and the military legally may own a firearm.
....
Both sides blame so-called "straw buyers" who purchase weapons for traffickers at small gun shops and large gun shows.

Who cares?

Dave - 11-16-2008 at 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by CG
More than 90 percent of guns seized at the border or after raids and shootings in Mexico have been traced to the United States, according to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

They ain't being smuggled in by gabachos.

CG - 11-16-2008 at 11:12 AM

Well Damn! if that's the case all they need is Barbara Boxer And Dianne Feinstein to come down here and help the Mexicans write some tough gun laws & get everything whipped into shape

Actually, that article you posted from the AP is mostly B.S. (not all though) it was based on a report by ATF acting director Michael Sullivan (whats funny is even the LA times stripped this info out & this guy is one of their own...) who is an ultra liberal, anti 2nd. amendment crusader; who is all about getting the director spot and increasing his budget (aren't they all)

=======================================
"Gun Owners of America's Executive Director, Larry Pratt, today blasted BATFE nominee Michael Sullivan as "unfit for office" -- characterizing him as being "as anti-gun as Ted Kennedy."

In a series of answers to interrogatories submitted by Louisiana Republican Senator David Vitter, Sullivan revealed that:

* He would not rescind BATFE's policy of revoking federal licenses for simple paperwork violations not involving "criminal intent;"

* He would not back down on BATFE's illegal and abusive policies of harassing gun show attendees;

* He supports anti-gun legislation by New York Democrat Chuck Schumer, but opposes pro-gun legislation dealing with interstate transfers sponsored by conservative Republicans;

* He defends revoking a license of a dealer with a 99.96% accuracy rate -- a rate which is far better than BATFE's.

In fact, in dozens of responses to questions posed by Vitter, Sullivan refused to even feign a conciliatory tone.

"I didn't expect pro-gun conservatism from Sullivan," said Pratt. "But you would have thought he would have been less obvious in his efforts to repeatedly poke Vitter in the eye."

GOA commended Vitter's intention to continue to "hold" Sullivan's nomination. "If Republicans expect the Second Amendment community to support their presidential candidate in November," said Pratt, "they may want to reconsider packing a GOP administration with anti-gun zealots."

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The sample he used is ridiculously small sample in a report aimed at trying to shut down gun show sales (a different argument) How small of a sample? Here is a quote that implies the real size of the iceberg:

=======================================

For Georgina Sanchez, a researcher with the Latin American Social Sciences (”FLACSO”) in Mexico, there is an amount estimated at between 12 and 20 million high power firearms, mostly AK-47s from China, and 40 million pistols and rifles, the majority of them in the hands of guerilla fighters, narcotraffickers and organized crime.

========================================

Here is a RAND report to the Department of Defense on the Colombian weapon situation. This report was used by the DOD to make policy regarding ams smuggling throughout Latin America.

http://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1468/MR1468.pdf

The sad thing is a lot of the arms here DO come from the US, just not across the border in the back of a pickup truck. In many cases they are US and Chinese weapons sent to Colombia and ended up in the wrong hands.

An important thing to remember is, even the drug scumbags here in the US don't run through the streets shooting at each other and the police with full auto long arms...why not if they are so easy to get??? I've lived in Hawthorne, Inglewood, and Pacoima and there were a lot of pistols and shotguns and a high murder rate but full auto Ak 47's & stuff...no

[Edited on 11-16-2008 by CG]