BajaNomad

San Francisquito Crash/ story and photos

David K - 12-6-2008 at 10:01 AM

Baja Nomad 'soulpatch' emailed me the story and 15 photos taken at the scene... Ken Cooke posted some of his photos in his trip report of last week, as well.
====================================================

A crazy story I thought I would share:

Following are pictures from last Sunday resulting from a fuel starved 1975 King Air 200 Air Ambulance which was originally destined for Los Cabos International to pickup a stroke patient.

Steve and myself were traveling north from Cabo San Lucas on an IFR flight plan at 26,000 feet talking to Mazatlan Center. About 15-20 miles south of my home at Rancho El Barril, I heard this King Air requesting a lower altitude as it had lost its right engine. As panic set in unable to restart the engine, he began asking for vectors to the nearest airport... Mazatlan Center originally suggested Hermosillo then... Guerrero Negro.. As I could clearly see the weather at Guerrero Negro which was overcast, I got on frequency and suggested it was not a good idea.

I then asked Center where he was in relation to my position. Learning that he was only about 10 miles behind me, and that I know the area, I suggested either Rancho El Barril or Punta San Franscisquito. I proceeded to give him coordinates for El Barril and suggested he head straight for it...

Panic then set in for the King Air pilot! His second engine quit leaving him with little options. He noted he was headed for the coastline as he saw no other options. He was losing 2000 feet/minute. Speaking with both him and Center I was able to determine his altitude and position and noted he would make either runway.

After descending out of 26,000 feet and circling back, I finally had him in site and vectored him for the old paved runway at San Franscisquito. He came in a bit hot (140kts) w/ 20 knots on the tail and touched down halfway down the runway... With no reverse thrust... and little runway left... he ended up running off the end and up a good slope hill where at the top he met large ruts which ripped of his landing gear followed by damaged props, flaps and belly.
The two EMT nurses on board were not injured. The pilots suffered bruised egos. We loaded up the occupants and their equipment and delivered them to their base at Long Beach airport.

The result of this crash was much better than one week earlier where a friends King Air 200 departing from an airstrip 100 miles south lost an engine on take off resulting in a fatal crash for the pilot, the sole occupant.

























Photos (3) showing the flight crew have been removed after communicating with Capt. Mike. Thanks for the explaining!

[Edited on 12-7-2008 by David K]

woody with a view - 12-6-2008 at 10:53 AM

what becomes of the plane. does the insurance company have to rush down and claim it before it is scavenged? or is it just totaled as far as recovering it?

those guys were lucky!!!

thebajarunner - 12-6-2008 at 11:09 AM

That plane is waaaaaay to valuable to total, or to scavenge.

Best case, have someone reliable (ahem) stay with it,
hire a trucker to get in there, pull the wings and truck it back,

Two blown (if they are indeed blown) engines will lessen that value, but it is still well worth the effort.

I think several on this board (Beercan comes to mind) have had similar situations, perhaps they can share how they handled the whole deal.

Frigatebird - 12-6-2008 at 11:12 AM

I'm certainly no expert, and would not want to be in the seat, but if this account is true:

1. Why did the crew seem to be without an adequate plan for this contingency?

2. Why did they land hot (I'm assuming hotter than could have been done) with a tail wind? Was landing other direction more hazardous?

I saw the crash site with the Baja Grande 08 crew. All 9 lives of these cats have been used up in this incident.

capt. mike - 12-6-2008 at 11:39 AM

"A crazy story I thought I would share: " huh??
:?:
i must say that unless you had the permission of the writer of that once private email and his pictures, posting it here is inappropriate as it is not in the public domain as a function of actions of the initiator.
if i was that ambulance crew or the El Barril resident and owner of the Pilatus i would be incensed over your availing it , story and pictures of people involved, to the general public, especially as an investigation is in process regards the very unfortunate but serious incident including consequences of employment and contracts.

i too have all this data as do a handful of others with whom it was shared in confidence - but no one until now ever thought of placing it here or on the BBP for instance.
you should consider removing this from a public forum or seek permission from the originators.

not sure I agree with you Mike

thebajarunner - 12-6-2008 at 11:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike
"A crazy story I thought I would share: " huh??
:?:
i must say that unless you had the permission of the writer of that once private email and his pictures, posting it here is inappropriate as it is not in the public domain as a function of actions of the initiator.
if i was that ambulance crew or the El Barril resident and owner of the Pilatus i would be incensed over your availing it , story and pictures of people involved, to the general public, especially as an investigation is in process regards the very unfortunate but serious incident including consequences of employment and contracts.

i too have all this data as do a handful of others with whom it was shared in confidence - but no one until now ever thought of placing it here or on the BBP for instance.
you should consider removing this from a public forum or seek permission from the originators.


You know that I am a pilot, and you know that my partner was killed crashing our plane near my home.

No one asked permission for the local t.v. channels to run live video of our plane in the orchard, and the coroner carrying my partner out to the hearse.

That plane lays out there, uncovered for God and gringos to see and lament over.

If "soulpatch" has a problem, well, then that is a different story.

Personally, I was very interested, and saddened, by the report, but did not find it inappropriate.
That is about as "public" as it gets..... IMHO

Mixed feelings ....

beercan - 12-6-2008 at 02:09 PM

A bunch of regret and relief at the same time.

The aircraft now belongs to the Insurance company. They have specialists who handle and deal with this type of problem all the time.
Many people say "the big Insurance boys can stand the loss" , but several articles over the years show that the Aircraft Insurance market is a rather small piece of the total Insurance pie. Most years, it barely breaks even.
Lucky for this time, all survived !

David K - 12-6-2008 at 04:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike
"A crazy story I thought I would share: " huh??
:?:
i must say that unless you had the permission of the writer of that once private email and his pictures, posting it here is inappropriate as it is not in the public domain as a function of actions of the initiator.
if i was that ambulance crew or the El Barril resident and owner of the Pilatus i would be incensed over your availing it , story and pictures of people involved, to the general public, especially as an investigation is in process regards the very unfortunate but serious incident including consequences of employment and contracts.

i too have all this data as do a handful of others with whom it was shared in confidence - but no one until now ever thought of placing it here or on the BBP for instance.
you should consider removing this from a public forum or seek permission from the originators.


Mike, read carefully... you quoted the writer of the email, not me... "A crazy story I thought I would share: "...

Obviously this email went out to all his buddies and Frank (soulpatch) was one... Here is what Frank wrote to me:

"Hey David, here is the whole story....... sheesh, if I could only afford to fly in like that I would be there every week!
Only post them if you think they are interesting..... it's up to you since it is a lot of work.
Frank"

Well Mike, I thought they WERE interesting... and on topic and thought you of all people would like to see them (didn't know you already had). There was no confidential notice in the email that was sent around and shared with Frank or me that I am aware of.

What is secret, anyway? This happens, we heard about it and Ken showed some photos of it... At least now the person who guided these boys into PSFO and maybe saved their lives has been able to get HIS story out to everyone (I think that's what he wanted to do from the wording)... As a pilot who did all this photo and report) he would have been the first to be asked to not go public, wouldn't he?

If that man contacts me or Frank and wants this removed, I will... no problem... I was just doing a favor for another Nomad.... okay boss?

capt. mike - 12-6-2008 at 05:13 PM

DK - i am not your boss. Or anyone else's here.

my point only had to do with issues of privacy and propriety.

if Frank suggested that you post this then it's been cleared i guess. Or he can absorb any fallback from the originators. He knows them so it's his call of course. I would never have published any of it myself without permission, that's all. so i chose not to. my apology to you.

i can only say that if it were me pictured either in the King Air or the Pilatus, or were i the writer of the private email quoted, i would be livid that someone would put any of it up on a public forum without my express ok.
but hey.... we live in the world of the internet now so all becomes fair game.
i choose to operate in the realm of decorum however.
others may simply have a take that all events, private or not, are ok to forward to the world.

as this doesn't harm me, i cry no foul against you. i still don't agree with it though. The guy will be lucky to keep his certificate regardless of what happens to his job. I think he deserves privacy. At least until all the facts are out. No one intentionally takes off with insufficient gas to make their destination, especially on a part 135 charter of this class. there might have been 4 fatalities here.

woody with a view - 12-6-2008 at 05:19 PM

Quote:
No one intentionally takes off with insufficient gas to make their destination, especially on a part 135 charter of this class.


and if this is found to be the case, the guys should lose their "cert." i say it is a public event and therefore not subject to any privacy expectations.....those pilots sure better be thankful for the other crew getting them to a alternate strip that they should have known was there anyway.....lucky day!

vandenberg - 12-6-2008 at 05:36 PM

Getting away from that liability/privacy issue, and not being a pilot, I have trouble believing that a pilot in a charter, a medical emergency one yet, will leave for a destination without proper take off procedures, which, I would imagine, will include the fuel situation. Somewhere, it seems to me, something else would have caused those engine failures. And if not, this guy/girl doesn't have any business flying an airplane with anyone else in it but himself/herself.
And, like Bloomberg said, "the book should be thrown at him".

David K - 12-6-2008 at 05:37 PM

Mike, the "okay boss?" was meant to be respectful, as a friend...

I would be happy to remove this if either Frank or the writer/ photographer requests it...

Unlike others would do, from my experience... see your u2u.

bacquito - 12-6-2008 at 05:56 PM

Interesting article, all were very lucky. I think the pilot did a fine job. Who was the pilot of the other plane that guided the the stricken aircraft? He really performed a service.

Mango - 12-6-2008 at 06:09 PM

hmm.. I didn't see a bike anywhere!

I bet the aircraft mechanic rides a bike to work. :lol:

Mango - 12-6-2008 at 06:10 PM

BTW - I'm glad the pilot was able to get her down safely.

capt. mike - 12-7-2008 at 08:27 AM

thx DK.
it is assumed a fuel starvation incident, well it was in all actuality but the Q is how and why??
ultimately what happens on any flight lies at the foot of the PIC (FAA speak for pilot in command). It is he who is responsible, as Harry S. used to say, the buck stops there.
so why? and how? and what were the contributing circumstances?
that catagory and class of AC has the range to get to its destination in baja nonstop from socal if properly fueled. it would seem that either there was an error in the fueling process or a mechanical issue kept fuel from the ignitors at some point during the flight causing the in flight emergency.
as a glider he probably had little option for a pattern entry based on wind. and landing to the south means clearing that hill on the north end. if he ended up short on final it would have been carnage as all familiar with the local geography knows.
Going straight in was the right call. the wind sock there is hard enough to see when you are low and slow like i am planning a landing there. Wind direction was his last concern at the time - finding any piece of level real estate was the goal.

there is a true event a few years ago where a large jet liner ran out of gas once because the 1st officer who was charged with checking the fuel loaded on an international stop confused liters with imperial gallons...you guessed it - they used up all their liters when they thought they had plenty of gallons left!! ouch!:(

Vince - 12-7-2008 at 02:39 PM

I feel Baja pilots need to know this info as soon as it occurs. This forum and the Baja Bush Pilots are good ways to get the word out to fellow aficionados who may be planning a similar trip and in doing so may prevent an accident. Regardless of the cause, the pilot did a masterful job making a deadstick landing in the wilds of Baja in a large heavy aircraft with no injuries. He probably knew he would overrun the short runway so he landed downwind so he wouldn't end up in the water. That would have had a different outcome. There seemed to be alot of spectators in the photos, if David hadn't of posted the info, someone else in the area would have. Thanks, David.

Barry A. - 12-7-2008 at 08:37 PM

Vince-----You are dead-on correct!!! :yes:

What a scary senario--------no power, desending like a rock, airport in sight (thank GOD), but you sure don't want to undershoot the runway, keep speed up so you don't stall, better to over-shoot than under-shoot and end up pancaking into the water, so you land HOT and further down the runway than you would have liked, but you survive and skid off into the sand-----------wow, I would say that he did fantastic, considering the situation.

Well done, I say. And yes, everybody needs to know what happened so that they can 'think about it', and hopefully learn something.

Barry

David K - 12-7-2008 at 09:05 PM

De nada Vince, Barry, and others...

I did remove 3 photos after Capt. Mike and I communicated via u2u... as I explained at the bottom of the last photo...

LancairDriver - 12-7-2008 at 09:33 PM

If this incident had happened anywhere in the states it would have been on CNN as well as all of the local networks complete with crew interviews- no big secrets there. The real hero here is the Pilatus pilot who guided a crew who were in all probability very stressed, to the best available alternative landing spot. Without him they would have in all probability headed for the beach or any apparently clear spot with high chance of an ugly outcome. As to the cause- the experts will sort it out and a report will be coming in 6 months to a year. Meanwhile us armchair NTSB inspectors can speculate to our hearts content. As the old saying goes "Any landing you can walk away from is a good one."

woody with a view - 12-8-2008 at 06:47 AM

Quote:

Photos (3) showing the flight crew have been removed after communicating with Capt. Mike. Thanks for the explaining!


for the rest of us, what's the secret regarding the crew??? but then if you told us it wouldn't be a secret!!!! what's up???

Yeah, and the NTSB might even have a clue

thebajarunner - 12-8-2008 at 09:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LancairDriver
If this incident had happened anywhere in the states it would have been on CNN as well as all of the local networks complete with crew interviews- no big secrets there. The real hero here is the Pilatus pilot who guided a crew who were in all probability very stressed, to the best available alternative landing spot. Without him they would have in all probability headed for the beach or any apparently clear spot with high chance of an ugly outcome. As to the cause- the experts will sort it out and a report will be coming in 6 months to a year. Meanwhile us armchair NTSB inspectors can speculate to our hearts content. As the old saying goes "Any landing you can walk away from is a good one."


They wrote three reports on my partner's fatal.
And not a one of the reports came up with a conclusion.
Add to that several credible eyewitnesses, the plane more intact than you might expect,
and nada
zip
nuthin'

My confidence in their reporting, having a first hand experience, is not so good, sorry to say.

Ken Bondy - 12-8-2008 at 09:43 AM

Based on everything that has been reported here, I think the pilot did a helluva job (other than running out of gas :tumble: ). Like Mike sez, the windsock at PSFO was very hard to see, even when it was there. I used to try to scare someone up at the bar on 122.8, but when that didn't work, I just relied on the white water on the waves. That would generally tell me where the wind was coming from. If no white water, no wind. But that was when I had engine(s) running. Under these deadstick circumstances wind was secondary. I don't know if landing to the north was the pilot's choice or if he had NO choice, but in either case it probably saved their lives. Much better to end up halfway up that hill than in the water. Cheers and congratulations to the KingAir driver!!



[Edited on 12-8-2008 by Ken Bondy]

Skeet/Loreto - 12-8-2008 at 10:59 AM

Back to the Aircraft Accident:

This appears to be a routine Aircraft Accident caused by Pilot Error: Pilot reported that he ran out of Fuel-

He made a difficult decesion and landed the proper direction it seems to me. He appears to be a good Pilot except when he checks his Fuel>

Could it be that one of the members of the Crew where not sup[pose to be where they were??, Therefore did not want to be I. D>

There does not appear to be any Liability involved only Collison Damage.

Skeet

aha baja - 12-8-2008 at 01:13 PM

Probably felt like a shuttle pilot dead stickin' it on down after re-entry!!! It's just the runway isn't as long as Edwards (miles long) or the Cape. Thankfully he didn't "auger in". You know what they say " any landing you walk away from is a good one"

fishbuck - 12-8-2008 at 04:27 PM

Capt Mike... You seem a little overly sensitive about anyone sharing any details for any accidents. Why?
I also think it is important to share the information. As a pilot, I can learn alot for these reports. Sure it's a shame and embarrassing for the crew. But it happened. An not talking about it doesn't undo the accident.
Any pieces of information might pervent a furture accident. Pilots learn alot about what not to do when other pilots make mistakes. Or what can be done right in the event of an emergency and the pilot saves the plane and his life.
This pilot saved his own life and his passengers. And that plane can probably be repaired.
It does seem unlikely that a pilot of that caliber would run out of fuel. But it does happen.

Barry A. - 12-8-2008 at 04:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by fishbuck

It does seem unlikely that a pilot of that caliber would run out of fuel. But it does happen.


-----especially if he took on fuel in liters, and forgot to convert it, thinking it was gallons (????) Yep, it does happen.

Barry

fishbuck - 12-8-2008 at 04:34 PM

Does anyone know if tha plane belonged to Rainbow Air at Long Beach. He has (or had) a couple of King Airs for charter and medivac.

cymeryss - 12-8-2008 at 04:52 PM

Yes, it belonged to Rainbow air. We were there for thankgiving (actually at Panchos) and the plane had an open hatch and definately made for spectacular photos and I am glad no one was hurt.

One questions that came up to my mind is how they are going to transport it. I guess cut the wings and put it on a truck.....lots of work!!

Barry A. - 12-8-2008 at 04:59 PM

-----the wings come off pretty easily, actually, at least they do on other aircraft I have worked on. They will need to bring the right equipment down, tho, to get it done. I have seen big fuel tanker trucks in there before, so it certainly is doable via the El Arco road. One of those big independent logger rigs with the crane mounted behind the cab would probably do the trick. Fun, fun.

Barry

fishbuck - 12-8-2008 at 05:36 PM

The wings can be unbolted at the wing root. I would think thay would take the horizontal stabalizer off too.

Frigatebird - 12-8-2008 at 07:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by fishbuck
... As a pilot, I can learn alot from these reports. Sure it's a shame and embarrassing for the crew. But it happened. And not talking about it doesn't undo the accident.
Any pieces of information might prevent a furture accident. Pilots learn alot about what not to do when other pilots make mistakes. Or what can be done right in the event of an emergency and the pilot saves the plane and his life.
...


I fly a paraglider and often read the accidents reports of this type of aviation on the forums. YouTube is filled with many examples of what not to do. Without paying mind to the mishaps and tragedies that come with leaving terra firma, many pilots will become complacent and perhaps overconfident. The investigative truth about this flight will benefit all who are involved with flying.

capt. mike - 12-9-2008 at 06:32 AM

yes - the pilot/crew was an idiot for allowing his picture taken, especially if in fact it was fuel starvation. My point was that the pictures and email were confidential and had a right to privacy until/unless the originator released them. Common courtesy, that's all.

until the facts are clear, there is only way too much speculation as to what happened. and yes there ARE contingent liabilities in play even tho it appears no one on the ground or from the air was hurt. Those that don't get that have not spent much time around attys, courts or the tort system.

you can learn plenty from the incident without seeing the faces of the crew who might be at fault or the N numbers. and the email, before posting, might have had names X'd out - it is easy to do and keep the basic story line intact.

it is for the reasons above this has not been sensationalized on BBP ala Weekly World News or Inside Edition.

my guess is Juan Escalante will recover it, he does most of them big and small. the last ones i watched him take out were the 210 that geared up and the Beech that took out the fence line both at BBP whales 2006 at El Gallito; and a piper tripacer that ground looped and tore a wing off at PSFO a few years earlier.

Mexican law requires that foreign aircraft involved in disabling incidents be removed from the premises and/or country at cost to the owner - you cannot simply leave it broken someplace if it is a total.

David K - 12-9-2008 at 09:18 AM

capt. mike:
"yes - the pilot/crew was an idiot for allowing his picture taken, especially if in fact it was fuel starvation. My point was that the pictures and email were confidential and had a right to privacy until/unless the originator released them. Common courtesy, that's all."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

soulpatch:
"I understand his point and I took quite a bit of time to shoot this out thru DK because I wanted to make sure the guy who sent it to me was OK with it..... I am all about privacy issues.
No sweat..."

=======================================================

So, to wrap this up, the originator did realease them before they appeared on Nomad.

The photos of the crew were removed anyway after capt. mike explained they have a reason for privacy... I do think their names were already known by all concerned... but, maybe they will get new names...? That's a lot cheaper than to get new faces...:wow:

mtgoat666 - 12-9-2008 at 10:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike

you can learn plenty from the incident without seeing the faces of the crew who might be at fault or the N numbers. and the email, before posting, might have had names X'd out - it is easy to do and keep the basic story line intact.


they happened to get involved in a newsworthy event, so they should deal with being news. pilots and crew have no special right to privacy -- they crash a plane, they get in the news. what's the big deal if their names become known? if they are embarrassed, they should just deal with it and move on with life. if they wanted to remain anonymous, they should have avoided crashing or fled the scene before cameras showed up :lol:

Skeet/Loreto - 12-9-2008 at 12:15 PM

Recovery will more than likely be with a good Salvage Person removing the Wings and possible Engines, Gear then transporting to the States _After paying the Proper mexican Aviation Offical for Permission!!

My first Salvage of this type was before the Road opened, I cam eacross the Ferry picked up the Fuselege, Wings, put on a Trailer and back across the Ferry. Vaughn Lamb charged the Insurance Co. $5,000 for the Trip.

Barry A. - 12-9-2008 at 01:51 PM

I remember back in the early '60's Dutch Schultz of JIMSAIR out of Lindberg Field flew a crashed Beech Baron (twin) out of BOLA with duct tape plugging the holes in the wings and fuselage. We duct taped sheets of aluminum skin onto the leading edges of the wings to make them resemble an "airworthy" surface (they had large holes in them from the crash). Fun, fun. He flew it all the way back to Lindberg non-stop, with special permission from the authrorities.

We also crated up a Beech twin Bonanza that crashed in Cabo in the early '60's and shipped it out of Cabo on a frieghter to Lindberg field.

Both of these airplanes we put back together to their original condition and walla, we had two more airplanes for the "fleet" at JimsAir. I flew both of them, and they were great to fly.

We (Jim Bracamonte) picked up both these aircraft for pennies on the dollar as "salvage".

Where there is a will, there is a way. :spingrin:

Barry

capt. mike - 12-10-2008 at 08:31 AM

great history Barry. JimsAir is a long standing icon in socal.
more stories and history please, new thread or whatever if you can.

Skeet/Loreto - 12-10-2008 at 10:27 AM

Barry:
Why did not you guys take out that Tri-Pacer that sat at Bay of Los Angeles for so many years???

Also did you get involved in the Nut Tree Owners Crash as they were decending into the BaY??

Guy named Powers whose family owned the Nutreee near Vacaville got caught in a Wind Shear, lost the Wings when making a Descent into Bay of Los Angeles.

P>S. I am still trying to locate anyone who knows about the Twin Engine Aircraft sunk in the Mud off of Pt Chivato.

Anyone Know??

Skeet

Ken Cooke - 7-29-2012 at 11:14 PM

Bump - Add this to discussion on recent Baja plane crashes.

Barry A. - 7-30-2012 at 08:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Barry:
Why did not you guys take out that Tri-Pacer that sat at Bay of Los Angeles for so many years???

Also did you get involved in the Nut Tree Owners Crash as they were decending into the BaY??

Guy named Powers whose family owned the Nutreee near Vacaville got caught in a Wind Shear, lost the Wings when making a Descent into Bay of Los Angeles.

P>S. I am still trying to locate anyone who knows about the Twin Engine Aircraft sunk in the Mud off of Pt Chivato.

Anyone Know??

Skeet


I missed this question by Skeet back in '08.

Skeet------(if your still lurking) I did not know of, or get involved in the "Powers" crash at BOLA. Nor was I aware, or simply don't remember, the "Tri-Pacer" at BOLA. I do know that Jim Bracamonte was mostly interested in Beech aircraft, and certain Cessna, and had no Piper's in his fleet------most of his recoveries in Baja were for planes that he could add to his working fleet.

In answer to Capt. Mike's long-ago inquiry------I really was only involved it two recoveries in Baja, and I am afraid that I really don't have any more "stories" to tell, sadly. But yes, Jim Bracamonte and Dutch Schultz had a long history in Baja Aviation. I believe that Jim built the second motel at BOLA (Villa Vita) but that was after I had left his employ and was back east for several years flying for the Dept of Interior (National Park Service)..

Thanks, David for resurrecting this thread.

Barry

David K - 7-30-2012 at 09:07 AM

Good Morning Barry... It was Ken Cooke who reserected this 4 year old thread... I was just as surprised as you to see it in Today's Posts, again!

LancairDriver - 7-30-2012 at 09:31 AM

Thanks for the bump Ken, and appropriate in connecting to the Carlos Fiesta thread concerning fuel starvation. This was a very interesting post and demonstrates a great deal of skill on the part of both pilots resulting in everyone walking away in one piece. (any landing you walk away from is a good one)The pilot helping the aircraft and controllers did a masterful job of providing situational awareness to an obviously shaken King Air crew and heading them to what had to be the only viable option around for landing. Very few pilots would think that fast on their feet in a situation like this. Running out of fuel is an unforgivable error as far as the FAA is concerned. This one had the best ending for a bad situation under very difficult circumstances. Other than the fuel screwup the King Air pilot did a great job and also was very lucky.

Ken Cooke - 7-30-2012 at 11:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LancairDriver
Thanks for the bump Ken, and appropriate in connecting to the Carlos Fiesta thread concerning fuel starvation.


You are welcome. I came upon Carlos Fiesta's sticker in my 'goodies' bag of Baja stickers and thought about when I saw him at David K's "Viva Baja" luncheon in San Clemente many years ago.

Barry A. - 7-30-2012 at 11:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Good Morning Barry... It was Ken Cooke who reserected this 4 year old thread... I was just as surprised as you to see it in Today's Posts, again!


Ooooops!!!! Thanks David, and Thank You, Ken for bringing this old thread to the forefront----very appropriate. Sorry for the mistake in credits--------my bad!!!

Barry

apogee - 10-16-2013 at 06:22 PM

You cannot have anybody except a Mexican National work on the plane. It is against Mexican law to let a US citizen do professional work in Mexico outright. Then there is the land usage. Where ever the A/C sits there will be rent to pay day by day for the use of that land. If there is any subsequent damage like a broken cactus or something that costs too.King Airs are big Boy Toys so let the insurance companies figure it out. Nobody was hurt..Fantastic......

Ken Cooke - 10-16-2013 at 07:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by apogee
You cannot have anybody except a Mexican National work on the plane. It is against Mexican law to let a US citizen do professional work in Mexico outright.


I never knew this.:cool: Lots happens under the radar...

fishbuck - 10-17-2013 at 01:09 AM

I actually know a bit more about this story. I met the copilot at Rainbow Air. That was the air ambulance/charter company that owned the KingAir.
The pilot didn't work for them anymore.
He flat out told me they just screwed up on the fuel load. A miscalculation.
Rainbow had been at Long Beach a long time. But they were gone before I left Long Beach in 2011.
They struggled along as a small time flight school for a while. But they never could get insurance after the accident. So they folded.
I flew with the copilot. He was working as a flight instructor there still.
The plane was disassembled and trucked out. Don't know if it was put back together or scraped. Probably the latter. I guess if the tail number is in the photos we could find out.
The guy was about 10 to 20 knots from a good landing. But you can imagine that he would be reluctant to give away his airspeed before landing.
I know I would.



[Edited on 10-17-2013 by fishbuck]

BajaNomad - 10-17-2013 at 06:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by fishbuck
The plane was disassembled and trucked out. Don't know if it was put back together or scraped. Probably the latter. I guess if the tail number is in the photos we could find out.


N200FM


Marla Daily - 10-17-2013 at 06:24 AM

FAA reports the tail number as deregistered.

durrelllrobert - 10-17-2013 at 09:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by apogee
You cannot have anybody except a Mexican National work on the plane. It is against Mexican law to let a US citizen do professional work in Mexico outright. Then there is the land usage. Where ever the A/C sits there will be rent to pay day by day for the use of that land. If there is any subsequent damage like a broken cactus or something that costs too.King Airs are big Boy Toys so let the insurance companies figure it out. Nobody was hurt..Fantastic......


It's my understanding that one of the advantages of having the "NEW" Residente Permanente status is that you are allowed to work in Mexico. Maybe it's different for aircraft mechanics?

Skeet/Loreto - 1-15-2014 at 12:19 PM

In my years as an aircraft Accident Investigator for a large Insurane Company I removed serveral Aircraft out of Baja.
One of them was prior to the road opening so I went across the Ferry to pt chavito , took the wings oof and transported it back across to the States.
did not have any trouble withe officials as all I had to do was contact the Local Aircraft Rep, pay him $150.00 get a signed permission slip and bring it back.

The only time I had to steal a Plane was out of Navajo , A stolen Cessna had been landed, left running with doors open near a small village. I could not locate the Local Offical so I fueled up the Plane, took off from the Road and sneeked under the Radar at mexicali.

There is no excuse for a Pilot running out of fuel. It is simple Pilot Error as was 98% of all Aircraft Accidents in those years.

Skeet

Barry A. - 1-15-2014 at 12:36 PM

When I was working for JimsAir at San Diego Lindberg in the '60's, we hauled and flew many an aircraft out of Baja in various stages of repair, or in pieces. NONE were ever scrapped. We just rebuilt them at our facility at Lindberg Field, changed the N-number thru re-registration, and sold them or put then on our flightline for charter or rental. We even barged a big Beech twin tail-dragger that went in near Cabo----hauled it out to the coast in pieces, put it on a barge and on to San Diego, put it back together, and viola a great new charter plane.

Whatever it took--------we got it done. The "good ol days" :lol:

Barry

David K - 1-15-2014 at 05:09 PM

I miss the Good Ol Days! I am not even old enough to remember most of them! :lol:

fishbuck - 1-16-2014 at 12:52 AM

I worked for a company called Parts Network in Orange County for a while. We specialized in finding flyable but high time Piper Navajo Chieftains and salvaging them. There were many produced and a lot of them are still flying. Problem is Piper stopped making parts for them many years back.
So if you own one it is very difficult to find the parts if you need them. This holds true for many models of aircraft.
We would find one located somewhere in the US and fly there commercially.
Then we would rent a big U-HAUL truck and drive it to the airport where the Piper was located.
We took off every part of value that we could and put it into the truck.
At the end all that was left was the aluminum... fuselage, tail, and wings sitting on top of 3 50 gallon drums.
The boss would fly home to Orange County and I would drive the truck home and meet him at the warehouse.
We had every part you would ever need on shelf after shelf.
After we left the airplane carcass at the airport an aluminum scraper would show up and chop it into small pieces and put them into his truck to be taken to a smelter.
So I would imagine that was the fate of the King Air from San Francisquito. I'm sure there is a very high demand for serviceable used King Air parts. King Airs are still in production but new parts would be very expensive.
But who knows... maybe the old girl got a second chance at life...

[Edited on 1-16-2014 by fishbuck]

bajalearner - 1-16-2014 at 07:37 AM

This was a post which I read with great interest. I am a retired professional helicopter pilot including medevac. Over years of flying I had those "close call" incidents that could have gone bad but didn't. I feel terrible for the crew but I am glad it was only bent metal. I know the crew feels embarrassment but it is what it is and the story will be told. Over the years, I saw several unfortunate things develop and fade away. This too shall pass.

It was interesting hearing about the situation occur in Mexican airspace and the sparse runway options. Thanks for sharing it.

Terry28 - 1-16-2014 at 10:53 AM

All these stories of crashed airplanes makes me glad I only drive in Baja..if I run out of fuel I only have to pull over and refill...try that with an plane.

David K - 1-16-2014 at 11:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Terry28
All these stories of crashed airplanes makes me glad I only drive in Baja..if I run out of fuel I only have to pull over and refill...try that with an plane.


Slow and safe...

I flew from Alfonsina's (Gonzaga Bay) to Oceanside, CA in the Cessna of Doug Bowles in 1999. Doug had the home with a hot tub, just north of Alfonsina's restaurant and he used to fly in supplies regularly for Alfonsina's from Long Beach.

On a return flight north from Gonzaga, Doug flew his plane into the mountain near Palm Springs (bad weather), on board were passengers including his grandson. A case of 'get home-itis'? Very sad.

Another friend (of most of us Baja folks) was Carlos Fiesta (Chuck Chambers) flying home with two friends after watching the 2010 Baja 1000 at Scorpion Bay... ran out of fuel over Newport Beach, all died after a water landing in the lagoon flipped the plane.

Plane crashes are not good. Those guys in San Francisquito a very lucky indeed!

capt. mike - 1-16-2014 at 02:24 PM

i thought Doug had a Cherokee 6?? straight leg. That's what he crashed. Maybe he had a Cessna before?

luv2fish - 1-16-2014 at 03:54 PM

WTF is going on here ???? David K posts a very informative current event and gets crapped on. Give me a Freaking break!!!
This reminds me of when a certain Dr. from the Ensenada area posted about a fellow nomad having suffered a stroke. Rather than Nomads showing concern for his life, they were spewing anger and hatred because of the violation of privacy. Give me a break. I hope that when I turn into an old fart, I dont just sit there spewing anger.

David K - 1-16-2014 at 04:15 PM

I flew with Doug in a 206 (he called it a flying pickup or station wagon, I think). This was May, 1999.

luv2fish, this is an old thread, so don't get bugged about old stuff... everyone's been nice in this thread since it was bumped up. Thank you for your support, however!