BajaNomad - What the hell is going on?

What the hell is going on?

baitcast - 12-17-2008 at 01:37 PM

I am surrounded by crooked politicians,scam artists,the enconomy is in the toilet,my dog is sick,everything is headed down including my bank account and to top it all off its snowing in Kingman Az. What the hell is going on? most likely a big dose of the flu.

Please help me :lol:

MERRY XMAS
Rob

David K - 12-17-2008 at 01:39 PM

Quick, go to Baja!!! Merry CHRISTMAS

El Camote - 12-17-2008 at 01:40 PM

Damn Rob, I think you've got a talent for writing country song lyrics! :wow:

DENNIS - 12-17-2008 at 01:41 PM

The sky is falling, Rob. You had better get down here asap.
Merry Christmas to you as well.

Pops - 12-17-2008 at 01:47 PM

Global Warming ????? :?:

David K - 12-17-2008 at 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pops
Global Warming ????? :?:

yes... on the verge of a second coldest winter in decades, perhaps ANOTHER record amount of snowfall (after last years all time record)... it MUST be Global Warming!! :lol:

Skipjack Joe - 12-17-2008 at 02:11 PM

Temperatures have drrrrrropped dramatically. It feels like montana around here. It felt real cold coming to work today. A full head of hair would have helped considerably.

Paulina - 12-17-2008 at 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
...It felt real cold coming to work today. A full head of hair would have helped considerably.

Thanks Igor for the smile your last line gave.

Rob, It's all happening up here too. We're leaving Sat. come hell or high water, frozen water for that matter or ex-husband drama. We're outa here. Do the same, RUN ROB, RUN AWAY!

P<*)))>{

Sharksbaja - 12-17-2008 at 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Temperatures have drrrrrropped dramatically. It feels like montana around here.

It IS Montana here!

Montanoregon.jpg - 37kB

David K - 12-17-2008 at 02:27 PM

Ice-landic Cod coming to Oregon?

k-rico - 12-17-2008 at 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by baitcast
I am surrounded by crooked politicians,scam artists,the enconomy is in the toilet,my dog is sick,everything is headed down including my bank account and to top it all off its snowing in Kingman Az. What the hell is going on? most likely a big dose of the flu.

Please help me :lol:

MERRY XMAS
Rob

Visit TJ, it makes all those issues you mentioned insignificant. On the bright side, except for the poor occupants, all the hillside shacks are sliding into the canyons because of the downpours.

I'm heading to BCS next week. :cool:

Skeet/Loreto - 12-17-2008 at 02:31 PM

It is terrible in Texas!!

Amarillo and the Texas Panhandle is doing Great, very little effect from Economy Fallout, no Foreclosures!

More and More the Beef Capital of the World- P.E.T. A is going Crazy!

The Churches are growing, growing, growing every Sunday.

Still hasn't snowed yet this Winter.

Got 40 Deer in my front Yard, Racoons, Skunks crawling around, 2 Eagles on the Transmission Poles, Horses feeding on the Great Buffalo Grass.

Boy things are going to Pot in the Great Texas Panhandle, think I will take another short Trip to Loreto!!

Skeet

Bajagypsy - 12-17-2008 at 03:28 PM

Ok, it is more than terrible here, the other morning we woke up to -37 degrees (with wind it was -47). Today is warmer, woke up and it was only -28 (-37 with wind). Good thing it isn't winter yet! Winter doesn't start till Sunday! :lol:

Russ - 12-17-2008 at 06:06 PM

All this talk of cold has got me spooked. I had to go dig around in the loft and find Mr. Heater.
That was stupid... it's 72º out and my doors are open. Too much Noche Buena for clear thoughts.

Wish you were here

baitcast - 12-17-2008 at 06:12 PM

First snowfall since I moved here in five years,we came 1400 miles to get away from this stuff but it followed us :lol:

Rob

WOW

woody with a view - 12-17-2008 at 06:19 PM

hey Rob i got just the thing to keep you focused buddy!!!!! take a deep breath, close your eyes, exhale and check this out!!!!! trying to squeeze in a trip between Xmas and be home for new years eve!!!!!!!!

100_1432 (Small).jpg - 30kB

baitcast - 12-17-2008 at 06:38 PM

Its amazing how often I think about that pic,you really know how to hurt a guy.Rob

woody with a view - 12-17-2008 at 06:45 PM

break the icicles off the gear and let's plan out a trip....

norte - 12-17-2008 at 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by Pops
Global Warming ????? :?:

yes... on the verge of a second coldest winter in decades, perhaps ANOTHER record amount of snowfall (after last years all time record)... it MUST be Global Warming!! :lol:

No politics on this board. No siree Dave...

woody with a view - 12-17-2008 at 07:09 PM

just the facts!

David K - 12-17-2008 at 07:12 PM

Yep, facts and a touch of common sense! :lol:

norte - 12-17-2008 at 07:41 PM

And some folks have neither but a lot of Opinions

BajaGringo - 12-17-2008 at 07:42 PM

Now don't you go confusing us with the facts now...

Skipjack Joe - 12-17-2008 at 08:43 PM

Were those spotfins caught in the winter months?

Are conditions (water temp and big surf) still good for surf fishing at this time of year?

toneart - 12-17-2008 at 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by norte

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by Pops
Global Warming ????? :?:

yes... on the verge of a second coldest winter in decades, perhaps ANOTHER record amount of snowfall (after last years all time record)... it MUST be Global Warming!! :lol:

No politics on this board. No siree Dave...

I have learned to let DavidK slide. His mind is bent to the right and once in awhile he gets a wild hair. But he contributes so much that is good and helpful on the BajaNomad that it far outweighs any political blurt. They are mere tiny brain f*rts. No biggie.

Back to topic...it's flocking c-c-c-c-cold here in the No. Ca. foothills. Huge snow and ice. Lots of black ice and accidents. If I can get out, I will head for Baja next week, boat in tow. Maybe I should put runners on the hull. The boat may come in handy in So. California and No. Baja, just surfing HWY 1. :cool:

Pops - 12-17-2008 at 09:53 PM

And the lack of sardines in the Pacific Ocean was caused by over-fishing, <<<<<<< NOT!

gnukid - 12-17-2008 at 10:07 PM

The article quoted earlier in this thread has been discredited as Hearst Corp. climate change propaganda
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0811-06.htm

Recent Articles

Climate Momentum Shifting: Prominent Scientists Reverse Belief in Man-made Global Warming - Now Skeptics
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.B...

Sea level rise begins to slow
http://www.dailytech.com/Defying%2BPredictions%2BSea%2BLevel...

Arctic ice refuses to melt as ordered
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/15/goddard_arctic_ice_m...

China battles coldest Winter in 100 years
http://uk.reuters.com/article/homepageCrisis/idUKPEK161570._...

Global warning: We are actually heading towards a new Ice Age, claim scientists
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1085359/Globa...

No smoking hot spot
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24036736-...

Snow in London
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1081135/One-dead-tho...

Nationwide protests against climate plan
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/697386/nationwide-protes...

Greenland icecap thickens
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1485573.htm

The Global Warming Scam
http://www.nzcpr.com/midweek44.htm

Sunday: Questioning the Science of Climate Change
Part I - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRhYjUAAzA4
Part II - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CheOqzN5ZA8
Part III - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RptWRaYuWdQ

Carbon offset trading fraud - Huge criminal activity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB2Ixn5Ldm0

The Great Carbon Offset Swindle - Part I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2pI-8wEvtg
Documentaries

Not Evil Just Wrong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHMOEVRysWE

Global Warming or Global Governance
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=-8147337841241405...

Global Warming: Doomsday Called Off
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295...

[Edited on 12-18-2008 by gnukid]

bajaguy - 12-17-2008 at 10:13 PM

Global warming has been so bad that it is snowing in Las Vegas and the schools there are closed:

http://www.lvrj.com/

gnukid - 12-17-2008 at 11:48 PM

I have made no judgment or "final scientific conclusion" quite the opposite, there is sufficient data to disqualify the forced conclusions about man-made global warming and therefore we should not enact legislation with so much conflicting data.

Common sense and reasoning would preclude the conclusions made by Al Gore in his work "An Inconvenient Truth" as did the British Court which ruled that 9 of the movies 11 conclusions were false and its clear that there is a political agenda to force a global warming fear campaign without adequate evidence that we can make these vast connections and conclusions to demonize human behavior and support legislation for carbon taxes and carbon credits.

British Court: Gore Film 'Political'
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1670882,00.htm...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=3719791&page=1

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22559777-2571...

Take 15 minutes to review any set of articles and its clear that there is not sufficient evidence that there is man made global warming, in fact there is a great deal of evidence that there are cyclical changes in the Sun's affect on the earth causing carbon dioxide ppm to increase following sun spots and decrease after periods of sunspots subside.

Furthermore periods of increased carbon dioxide precede increased cycles of growth in plants and therefore increase food supply which encourages increased animal life.

Therefore there is no conclusive connection that carbon taxes and reduction in carbon fuels would change the amount of ice and the global temperatures. Also there is no evidence that an increased temperature would be bad or that more ice is good. These are more likely global cycles to which we must adapt.

[Edited on 12-18-2008 by gnukid]

Skipjack Joe - 12-18-2008 at 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
These are more likely global cycles that we benefit from and to which we adapt.

[Edited on 12-18-2008 by gnukid]

Thank you gnukid. I feel so much relieved.

Speaking of adaptation. I understand the polar bears have now been added to the endangered list of animals (or is it threatened). No matter, though. I'm sure it's some of those left leaning nut cases that are raising false fears.

Why it makes perfect sense to me that if the Almighty wanted the bears to stay he would do something about it. And it they're about to go ... Well, maybe things were just meant to be that way.

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Common sense and reasoning would preclude the conclusions made by Al Gore in his work "An Inconvenient Truth" as did the British Court which ruled that 9 of the movies 11 conclusions were false and its clear that there is a political agenda

I had read that paper before and decided that these scientists themselves had an agenda of their own. Probably a political agenda. That paper is virtually a polemic. Those people don't deserve to be called scientists.

I don't see an even-handness in your choice of links either, for that matter. You speak of common sense? I only see propaganda.

[Edited on 12-18-2008 by Skipjack Joe]

gnukid - 12-18-2008 at 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
These are more likely global cycles that we benefit from and to which we adapt.

[Edited on 12-18-2008 by gnukid]

Polar Bears are not on the endangered or threatened list-its been proposed by the Climate Change Proponents and has been denied. There is no consensus about Polar Bears being endangered. In fact it has been shown that the use of the polar bear in the campaign has been a misleading tool since Polar Bears actually do swim for food and can and must swim hundreds of miles and do so in order to feed. The images a swimming Polar Bear has been used to cause fear. Actually it was shown that the photos of the polar bears swimming were taken from a tourists photos and misused by the media.

You may be aware that these facts and the emotional misuse of pictures of Bears were brought to light over the past year:

The Polar Bear Pic They Won't Show You
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2007/...

SUBCOMMITTEE Hearing on "Global Warming and Wildlife"
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Hearings.T...

Polar Bears on Thin Ice, Not Really!
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba551/

Federal Polar Bear Research Critically Flawed, Forecasting Expert Asserts
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080508132549.ht...

Polar bears not threatened: Nunavut
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story/2007/01/02/polar-reacti...

Polar bear not endangered: advisory panel
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/life/discover/2008/04/27/153828/...

Polar Opposites
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=020808A

[Edited on 12-18-2008 by gnukid]

Skipjack Joe - 12-18-2008 at 12:27 AM

Quote:

gnukid - 12-18-2008 at 12:33 AM

I gave you links to Time Magazine, CNN, ABC, the US Senate and various global Journals to add to the variety. Your criticism that my links are biased may be true but I have tried to provide a variety of sources which I did. If you read the sources which takes but a minute you will see the conclusions are only that we shouldn't rush to forced emotional conclusions. If you have any other data or references or any evidence that something I wrote is false please provide it. I would like to know if I made a misstatement.

[Edited on 12-18-2008 by gnukid]

Skipjack Joe - 12-18-2008 at 12:36 AM

I REPEAT:

WHY ARE ALL YOUR LINKS ONE-SIDED?

WHY DON'T YOU POST LINKS TO ARTICLES THAT CLAIM THE OPPOSITE?

HOW CAN YOU EXPECT PEOPLE TO RESPECT YOUR OPINIONS WHEN THERE IS NO SUGGESTION OF FAIR EVALUATION?

Skipjack Joe - 12-18-2008 at 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
If you read the sources which takes but a minute you will see the conclusions are only that we shouldn't rush to forced emotional conclusions.

What rushing are you talking about?

It's been, what, over 10 years now that we've been debating on this subject. And the first signs were proposed over a decade before that. During that time even George Bush's administration has come around to believing it.

[Edited on 12-18-2008 by Skipjack Joe]

Skipjack Joe - 12-18-2008 at 01:30 AM

Tell me gnukid. What are your criteria for global warming? Seriously. If I understand the parameters you accept for global warming then we have a common language.

I am told that we've lost a third of the arctic ice pack in the last 2 years. Is that global warming? I guess not.

If we lose another third will you then consider there to be global warming?

7/8th's.

The entire icepack?

What is your benchmark?

Someday I want to be able to come up to you and say that now we have global warming and for you to agree with me.

k-rico - 12-18-2008 at 06:36 AM

"Our scientific understanding of climate change is sufficiently sound to make us highly confident that greenhouse gas emissions are causing global warming."

Royal Society, founded 1660 - http://royalsociety.org/page.asp?id=6229 - http://royalsociety.org/page.asp?id=1058

"The scientific evidence is clear," the AAAS Board says in a new statement. "Global climate change caused by human activities...is a growing threat to society." The statement was approved on 9 December 2006 and released on 18 February at the AAAS Annual Meeting in San Francisco.

The American Association for the Advancement of Science, founded 1848, http://www.aaas.org/news/press_room/climate_change/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now back to the topic at hand. It is truly remarkable that as we approach the winter solstice it is cold in the northern hemisphere. :rolleyes:

baitcast - 12-18-2008 at 07:30 AM

If the economy doesn,t get fixed in the very near future the polar bears will be the least of our problems.
Rob

k-rico - 12-18-2008 at 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by baitcast
If the economy doesn,t get fixed in the very near future the polar bears will be the least of our problems.
Rob

There are those who think fixing the polar bear problem, which is a symptom of global warming, will lead to an economic recovery.

I tend to think that the economy is now fixed and that it was broken. Perhaps the "wealth" of the past ten years was an illusion created by massive corruption and greed.

Pompano - 12-18-2008 at 08:49 AM

Quote:

MERRY XMAS
Rob

Hmm..baitcast, there is a plus side to all this bad news and supposition. I just went out front and checked the high tide marks I've made on my seawall since 1971. According to my calculations I should have terrific red snapper fishing in my living room by 2025! So stop by and wet a line. We can use paroled governers, Wall St. brokers, and ex-senators for bait.

Go Polar Ice Packs!

footnote:
There is a motion underway to change the name... The Sea of Cortez... to... The Deep Denial.

When life throws you a lemon...make lemonade.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Barry A. - 12-18-2008 at 09:34 AM

Not knowing FOR SURE if global warming is man caused, I understand that many scientists agree that should we spend the billions (trillions??) to impliment the "ideas" of the more radical environmentalists the most improvement we can expect is about a 1%, or less, in the results.

I don't believe that it is worth it, considering the damage we would do to the world economy long term, based on "inconclusive" evidence.

Barry

[Edited on 12-18-2008 by Barry A.]

Skipjack Joe - 12-18-2008 at 09:49 AM

<yawn> Shees, did I write all that stuff last night?

What got into me?

I apologize.

Nothing more on the subject from me.

gnukid - 12-18-2008 at 10:34 AM

Quite broadly here is a theory for which evidence exists. Sunspot activity causes changes in the earths average temperature. This warming and cooling due to the Sun has occurred for eons. In the past the earth saw average temperatures much higher and at times lower.

The cyclical changes which we saw over the recent decades caused some warming and an increase in carbon dioxide. The warming has since reversed and we see cooler averages now.

The affect of warming on ice cap is difficult to gauge as some scientists predict that warming causes increased humidity and increased snowfall while other argue that warming causes artic glaciers to melt however when the average temperature is -50 and the average changes a whopping 10 degrees that is still not significant to cause melting.

Again, there is data that some areas have seen increases in polar caps as you see in the links I provided which show increasing snow cap in Greenland and in the Southern Ice Cap. And as I reported the data used by the proponents of Global Climate Change was ruled by the UK Supreme Court and the in Hearings by the US Senate to be exaggerated and falsified. There is a long list of scientists opposed to Global Warming and a short list of pro Global Warming proponents today.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008597

http://www.icis.com/Articles/2008/05/19/9125103/31000-scient...

Now we also found out that Polar Bears are not in significant decline and that they do swim for great lengths to feed and periodically rest on small ice formations.

So we can conclude based on the UK Supreme Court and the testimony of thousands of scientists that there is not significant scientific basis for announcing a Global Climate Change while there is clearly a political and emotional argument to support a tax of each human being.

Now, why would I, a staunch ecologist and conservationist be against the politics of Global Change? Well because it is not science, the Carbon Tax plan is not justified and instead is apparently a piece of the falsified push to increase taxes and legislation which puts controls on individuals, it would hurt poor people the most and fail to cause a beneficial change as Corporations trade in a new market called Carbon Credits where they profit.

Finally taking a historical view, Carbon is an element of life that we require to fuel the growth of plants in the ocean and on land. Carbon is the source of energy that plants need. Its no wonder that the Globalists Plan is to demonize and tax Carbon as this was written about for centuries, if Rulers could control food and energy and even the air humans and plants breathe they control everything. Adolph Hitler wrote about taxing Carbon in his works and our politicians today are of the same ilk as you may be aware.

There are other issues intertwined, as there are extensive operations to change the atmosphere and thus temperature with bioengineered chemical trails. The US has a huge number of atmospheric chemical distribution planes and we see them flying over world population centers. Possible uses are weather control, population control, inoculation. This artificial technique affects the data noted in regard to Climate Change.

Recently, a bill . HR 2977 was put forth to regulate Chemtrails use by the Government known as Project Cloverleaf or Geoengineering.

http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/smoking_gun.html

What is wrong with our skies?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1332178607299698024

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/infoelect/e6/dash8.html

http://contrailscience.com/contrail-or-chemtrail/

http://artificialclouds.com/

From the large amount of evidence for and against the Man-Made Global Warming Theory we can conclude that the proponents have used falsified data to a degree which is ludicrous in order to push for a new market called Carbon credits and tax the poorest people heavily therefore we must reject increased legislation and instead do our part individually to reduce waste and conserve which is efficient and beneficial, such as methods to use technologies which save energy and money, not increases costs and legislation on the backs of poor people.

David K - 12-18-2008 at 10:49 AM

The world has warmed and it has cooled long BEFORE man and before fossil fuels... and will continue to warm and cool long after man and after fossil fuels.

The earth produces far, far more 'greenhouse' and 'ozone depleting' gasses than man could dream of producing... and yet the earth is still full of life, and more is being discovered every year.

Look to the volcano and natural methane release as what is outproducing man's contribution to 'global warming'... A NATURAL and NORMAL event...

DON'T worry... because NATURE is far more powerful than us humans and will get what she wants, in the end.

They predicted an ice age was starting just 30 years ago... and that didn't get them any special funding or power... So, let's say we are 'warming' and scare the pants off those who react to every preceived crisis... and guess what, THAT worked... Gave scientists money, has-been politicians and actors some fame, empowered the government to justify more control over us... etc. etc.

Sure we had a few warmer than normal years... now we are having some cooler thanm normal years... FOLKS, it all balances out... We have not lived long enough to see what is 'normal'... Man hasn't been recording temperatures long enough to see what's normal, either...

Sea levels are rising from man made global warming? I can show you many places, in the desert, hundreds of feet above sea level with fossilized sea shells from 5-15 million years ago. Seems to me, IF the sea levels were rising, it is only to get back to where they were before... LONG before man!

THINK BEFORE YOU REACT to the global warming hysteria. Maybe, just maybe it is all about some money and power for some people at the expense to the rest of us???

norte - 12-18-2008 at 12:14 PM

Geeze.

first statement - long before the world has.....
6th statement - we haven't been recording blah, blah, blah

7th statement. couldn't be because the Earths crust is constantly rolling and moving could it.

Talk about making up your own scenarios. Maybe, just maybe its all about ignorance.

Sounds like the world is still flat doesn't it. Science...pooh pooh

David K - 12-18-2008 at 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
Geeze.

first statement - long before the world has.....
6th statement - we haven't been recording blah, blah, blah

7th statement. couldn't be because the Earths crust is constantly rolling and moving could it.

Talk about making up your own scenarios. Maybe, just maybe its all about ignorance.

Sounds like the world is still flat doesn't it. Science...pooh pooh

You can't even get the first statement right norte... I said long before MAN, not the world.

I suggest you read some of gnukids links and understand how large and old the earth is. Man is a tiny blip in time here... man's activities that have affected the enviroment an even smaller blip.

People are using hysteria and false science of man-made global warming to gain money and power... So, blame man for some of his evils... but they are evils against other men!

Cheers! :yes:

Neither Rain nor Snow nor Gloom of Night ?

MrBillM - 12-18-2008 at 12:49 PM

We found out this week that the USPS motto is a Crock of Crap ! At least here in the High Desert.

NO delivery on Monday. NO delivery on Tuesday and NO delivery on Wednesday. Thursday doesn't look good, but the sun's out and MAY melt enough snow to clear the street. Wouldn't bet on it, though. With the shortage of snow plows in the area, they don't bother with the residential streets.

Haven't seen this much snow in at least Ten years and maybe more. We've NEVER lost so many tree branches. Once again, we're reminded that Eucalyptus trees are not meant for snow country. Broken branches everwhere, including the driveway.

Probably as a result of being old, a neighbor from across the street came over to check on us this a.m. because they hadn't seen our trucks move or seen us in three days.

An amusing, but (momentarily) worrisome event yesterday was watching a 2WD F-150 try to make a U-turn in front of the house. As he slid sideways towards our fence I wondered if he'd stop in time. He did (barely).

Getting ready to hose off the Dodge 4WD truck and head for the market (maybe).

This Global Warming is getting to be a pain in the butt.

Sharksbaja - 12-18-2008 at 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano

Hmm..baitcast, there is a plus side to all this bad news and supposition. I just went out front and checked the high tide marks I've made on my seawall since 1971. According to my calculations I should have terrific red snapper fishing in my living room by 2025!

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Pompano, can you share the details of your 31 year research. How much higher IS that mark?

David K - 12-18-2008 at 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja

Quote:

Pompano, can you share the details of your 31 year research. How much higher IS that mark?

Now, how do we figure out if the sea level is higher OR the wall (beach) is lower??? :light:

In 30 years of camping on Shell Island (a barrier island beach not more than a few feet above high tide), where a sea level rise would easily be noticed and make it a total island... NOTHING HAS CHANGED. :biggrin:

gnukid - 12-18-2008 at 01:07 PM

This documentary has extensive data about sea levels. If you wish, click forward about mid-way toward the 24 minute mark and you can see extensive data about sea levels.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295...

Reviewing the data across a variety of sources, counter-intuitively, a increase in global temperatures would precipitate an increase in humidity and increased polar snowfall, conversely, a cooling of global temperatures would precipitate a decrease in humidity, decreased precipitation and a decrease in polar ice caps which is what we see now, a general cooling and in some cases reduced polar cap.

[Edited on 12-18-2008 by gnukid]

Sharksbaja - 12-18-2008 at 01:36 PM

:lol:

David, unless the wall sunk the water line mark would remain static wouldn't it?

[Edited on 12-19-2008 by Sharksbaja]

norte - 12-18-2008 at 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

You miss the whole point. But I can't spell it out any better for you, Your right the world is flat.

Barry A. - 12-18-2008 at 03:07 PM

Norte-------"the world is flat"????

how can that be???? if the world was flat then all land forms would be under water----------and there would be nobody to even care about "global warming".

Your "flat" inuendo (statement??), with no backup, that we who doubt man-caused global warming are ignorant is pretty presumptious, don't you think??? :lol:

---your saying it does not make it so------I am looking for solid proof.

Barry

Barry A. - 12-18-2008 at 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
This documentary has extensive data about sea levels. If you wish, click forward about mid-way toward the 24 minute mark and you can see extensive data about sea levels.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295...

Reviewing the data across a variety of sources, counter-intuitively, a increase in global temperatures would precipitate an increase in humidity and increased polar snowfall, conversely, a cooling of global temperatures would precipitate a decrease in humidity, decreased precipitation and a decrease in polar ice caps which is what we see now, a general cooling and in some cases reduced polar cap.

[Edited on 12-18-2008 by gnukid]

Gnukid------

That is a great documentary film you have provided us-------thank you very much. It is very thought-provoking.

Barry

David K - 12-18-2008 at 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
:lol:

David, unless the wall sunk the water line would remain static wouldn't it?

Corky, Pompano said his living room would be under water in 2025 if things keep moving at the rate he has noticed...

I said: Now, how do we figure out if the sea level is higher OR the wall (beach) is lower???

Now, to answer you I need to know what you mean... If Roger sees a rise in the water mark that means EITHER the water is rising or the wall is dropping, dosn't it?

Ricardo - 12-18-2008 at 06:27 PM

OK well a little more artic cold is on the way for this weekend, Gnukid is probably right on with the solar cycles etc. Hate to agree with him but he seems to be calming down a little. Global warming is happening but will change to a cooling cycle ( I don't know when), nor do the scientists.
Lots of political BS out there but it helps curb pollution as they can blame global warming and work towards a cleaner planet.
Just a little bit of my opinion(I got lots more)
Rick

Sharksbaja - 12-18-2008 at 06:48 PM

Yep! The water must be rising. Odds of the wall sinking that much seems unlikely. I wonder, is Baja rising, or what? We know a fault runs the length and there is volcanic action occuring. It's situated on the Ring of Fire so a lot is possible.

David K - 12-18-2008 at 06:52 PM

How is it the sea level can rise in Mulege, but not in San Felipe?

The land along Concepcion Bay sinking makes more sense... the ocean sea level is pretty standard. :?:

[Edited on 12-19-2008 by David K]

Skipjack Joe - 12-18-2008 at 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paulina

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
...It felt real cold coming to work today. A full head of hair would have helped considerably.

Thanks Igor for the smile your last line gave.

Glad you liked it.

bald_antlers.jpg - 50kB

David K - 12-18-2008 at 11:32 PM

Here's what I drive across at low tide to get onto Shell Island (looking from the island west to the Baja peninsula)...

IF the sea levels were rising, this crossing would be getting more and more difficult... yet, in 30 years, it remains the same.

LOSARIPES - 12-19-2008 at 05:02 AM

Warming your globals.... or globaling your warm.... it appears that anything can be true at this point, depending who you listen to. There is political agenda. There is legitimate concern and if I were to decide, I would go for the environment protection at a local (personal) basis, not endorsing those policy makers/fund raiser politicians turned to environmentalists.

DrTom - 12-19-2008 at 09:38 AM

Quote:

MERRY XMAS
Rob

Hows the dog?

baitcast - 12-19-2008 at 01:22 PM

Dr. Tom,we lucked out on that one,after a trip to the vet hopefuly everything is going to be just fine,13 year old weannie dog,he,s an old friend of mine Calvin by name.

Thanks for your concern :biggrin:

Rob

Fred-o - 12-19-2008 at 02:06 PM

Weather News and Features
Global warming causing more tropical storms: NASA
AFP-1 hour, 21 minutes ago
AFP - Global warming is increasing the frequency of extremely high clouds in the Earth's tropics that cause severe storms and rainfall, according to a NASA study released Friday.

I GUESS NASA HASN'T GOTTEN THE WORD YET..... THIS IS A POST TODAY ON THE WEATHER CHANNEL. 12/19/2008

Barry A. - 12-19-2008 at 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fred-o
Weather News and Features
Global warming causing more tropical storms: NASA
AFP-1 hour, 21 minutes ago
AFP - Global warming is increasing the frequency of extremely high clouds in the Earth's tropics that cause severe storms and rainfall, according to a NASA study released Friday.

I GUESS NASA HASN'T GOTTEN THE WORD YET..... THIS IS A POST TODAY ON THE WEATHER CHANNEL. 12/19/2008

Here we go again------------NOBODY (sane, that is) actually says that Global Warming is not happening----------the argument is "what is causing it". NASA has it right.

Barry

David K - 12-19-2008 at 04:24 PM

Yes, since the world has warmed and cooled many times before man... why now is man blamed and not nature. Don't volcanos still erupt and each one produces many times more ozone depleting gasses in one eruption than mankind ever has... and the earth is still fine?

I am not saying we shouldn't try to live, build, work cleaner... but don't say we are the cause of the entire earth's climate changing... If and when it changes, it will be a natural event the causes it.

Natural events include volcanos, natural gas release from the earth and animals, sun spots (solar flares), earth's axis wobble which slowly changes the angle of the sun overhead, gravitational disturbance from a close approach space body...

k-rico - 12-19-2008 at 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Yes, since the world has warmed and cooled many times before man... why now is man blamed and not nature. Don't volcanos still erupt and each one produces many times more ozone depleting gasses in one eruption than mankind ever has...

Nope.

"It has been alleged that the increased level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is due to emissions from volcanoes, but these account for less than one per cent of the emissions due to human activities."

Last paragraph: http://royalsociety.org/page.asp?tip=1&id=6230

Just because the planet has warmed and cooled before does not mean the current warming is not man-made.

"Man is being blamed" because since the beginning of the industrial age when coal was first burned to turn water into steam the atmospheric CO2 levels have dramatically increased.

Please read: http://royalsociety.org/page.asp?id=6229

[Edited on 12-20-2008 by k-rico]

David K - 12-19-2008 at 06:27 PM

Nope I'm wrong? Says who... Royal society? I live in a republic, no royalty here!

I didn't see one mention of volcanos, except regarding Carbon Dioxide... a NATURAL gas, not a pollutant... please try that link again or just paste the royal explanation that volcanic emissions are less than man's! That's ludicrous... One volcano in the Phillipines (Pinatubo?) dimmed the skys world wide... affected our sunsets up here. Haven't seen that from all the factories in China and India, running evey day, yet.

Without CO2, all plants die!

[Edited on 12-20-2008 by David K]

k-rico - 12-19-2008 at 06:31 PM

Look again, last paragraph. Do you know the history of the Royal Society? Sir Issac Newton was the head scientist in the 1600s. It is probably the most prestigious group of scientists in the world. I tend to agree with their viewpoints.

[Edited on 12-20-2008 by k-rico]

David K - 12-19-2008 at 06:36 PM

CO2 is not the only gas volcanos erupt... Geeze Louise man! Show me that all the other volcanic gasses don't do anything to temperature... Bad science = political/ financial motives

k-rico, You can knock all you want but...

Dave - 12-19-2008 at 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
Look again, last paragraph. Do you know the history of the Royal Society? Sir Issac Newton was the head scientist in the 1600s. It is probably the most prestigious group of scientists in the world. I tend to agree with their viewpoints.

There ain't nobody home. :rolleyes:

k-rico - 12-19-2008 at 06:46 PM

CO2 is transparent and is a greenhouse gas. The obscuring of the atmosphere when volcanos erupt is due to lofted particulates.

Start out by learning about the greenhouse effect.

That's quite a statement of yours that the Royal Society practices "bad science". What makes you think that?

k-rico - 12-19-2008 at 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

There ain't nobody home. :rolleyes:

yeah I know, but jeez.........

Global Warming

Ricardo - 12-19-2008 at 07:50 PM

Well time for my 2 bits again, People should try to look at all perspectives, Heres a site with numbers, I prefer numbers over talk without substance.
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

Skipjack Joe - 12-19-2008 at 11:00 PM

National and international organizations that support:
(a) the occurence of global warming
(b) that human activity in the last 50 years is the primary cause of it.

1.8 European Academy of Sciences and Arts
1.9 Network of African Science Academies
1.10 National Research Council (US)
1.11 European Science Foundation
1.12 American Association for the Advancement of Science
1.13 Federation of American Scientists
1.14 World Meteorological Organization
1.15 American Meteorological Society
1.16 Royal Meteorological Society (UK)
1.17 Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
1.18 Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
1.19 Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences
1.20 International Union for Quaternary Research
1.21 American Quaternary Association
1.22 Stratigraphy Commission of the Geological Society of London
1.23 International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics
1.24 International Union of Geological Sciences
1.25 European Geosciences Union
1.26 Canadian Federation of Earth Sciences
1.27 Geological Society of America
1.28 American Geophysical Union
1.29 American Astronomical Society
1.30 American Institute of Physics
1.31 American Physical Society
1.32 American Chemical Society
1.33 American Society for Microbiology
1.34 Institute of Biology (UK)
1.35 World Federation of Public Health Associations
1.36 American College of Preventive Medicine
1.37 American Public Health Association
1.38 American Medical Association
1.39 American Statistical Association
1.40 Engineers Australia (The Institution of Engineers Australia)
1.41 Water Environment Federation
1.42 Chartered Institution of Water and Environmental Management
1.43 Federal Climate Change Science Program (US)

gnukid - 12-19-2008 at 11:16 PM

More than 31,000 leading scientists, including 9000 PHDs signed the petition to reject the hypothesis of man-made Global Warming.

http://www.oism.org/pproject/

We urge the United States government to reject the global warming agreement that was written in Kyoto, Japan in December, 1997, and any other similar proposals. The proposed limits on greenhouse gases would harm the environment, hinder the advance of science and technology, and damage the health and welfare of mankind.

There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth.

http://www.oism.org/pproject/

[Edited on 12-20-2008 by gnukid]

Dr Frederick Seitz

Dave - 12-19-2008 at 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
More than 31,000 leading scientists, including 9000 PHDs signed the petition to reject the hypothesis of man-made Global Warming.

http://www.oism.org/pproject/

"Research data on climate change do not show that human use of hydrocarbons is harmful. To the contrary, there is good evidence that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide is environmentally helpful."

I think he and Woody Allen determined the same thing about smoking.

What a guy. :rolleyes:

baitcast - 12-20-2008 at 05:53 AM

:lol:

You guys kill me,most of us won,t be around to see the final result anyway,we should be more concerned getting this country back on its feet now!

Many pressing problems,the values I was raised with have long since been forgotten,the commitment of a hand shake,the trust I once had in people I,m sorry to say is waning.

As I said before if we don,t weed out all the trash that seems to be everywhere,and change the way we do things as well as our thinking the polar bears and climate change will be the least of our problems.
Rob

Pescador - 12-20-2008 at 07:53 AM

As my Grandad used to say, "Please do not confuse me with the facts".
Some, obviously, have already made up their mind as to the correctness of their opinion and anything that goes counter to that will be automatically rejected.

k-rico - 12-20-2008 at 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
The ability of humans to influence greenhouse water vapor is negligible. As such, individuals and groups whose agenda it is to require that human beings are the cause of global warming must discount or ignore the effects of water vapor to preserve their arguments, citing numbers similar to those in Table 4b .

The large increase in CO2 caused by the buring of fossil fuels is a catalyst that causes atmospheric water vapor concentrations to increase; therefore, the first statement is false.

The slight warming of the atmosphere due to man-made increases in CO2 (the second most importatnt greenhouse gas after water vapor) increases the ability of the atmosphere to hold more water vapor, further warming the atmosphere, it's a synergistic relationship.

The percentage concentrations of one gas versus another are misleading data that lead to false conclusions. Much the same as saying a measly gram of potassium cyanide can't possibly harm a 200 pound man.

It's interesting how the correct data cited in the website you linked to were used to arrive at erroneous conclusions.

[Edited on 12-20-2008 by k-rico]

David K - 12-20-2008 at 10:05 AM

k-rico, thank you for being civil through this debate... Usually people of the same beliefs as you start name calling and insulting when their arguments are shown as false or questionable.

The bottom line is (to me) that man is NOT more powerful than God or Mother Nature and man cannot change the natural and normal temperature changes on this planet that have been occuring for eons of time. I am also not convinced that our short time on earth recording temperatures in any way can give us an idea of what is 'normal' weather for this planet.

So, we should be good people and avoid polluting whenever possible, but that any 'laws' to reduce pollution should apply to ALL countries, not just some (as Kyoto mandates). The USA may use more natural resources and may pollute some, but we feed and supply most of the world and still offer freedom and refuge to those in need... we are known as the most generous people on earth, as well.

Those America haters who are so much for Kyoto and the punishing of America always fail to appreciate the greatness of America. When other countries build barriers to keep their people from leaving, we have to build them just to try and limit the flood of people who try to get in! How evil can the USA be when people die just trying to come here? :rolleyes:

Have a great weekend and Happy Holidays!

k-rico - 12-20-2008 at 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
I didn't see one mention of volcanos, except regarding Carbon Dioxide... a NATURAL gas, not a pollutant
Without CO2, all plants die!

[Edited on 12-20-2008 by David K]

Then I guess the the stuff you flush down the toilet every morning is not a pollutant either, it's the epitome of "natural". Plants love manure.

But your point about "natural" is important. The CO2 nature produces is also consumed by nature, as you said. The problem is the CO2 produced by man burning fossil fuels is in excess to natural sources, disrupting homeostasis.

[Edited on 12-20-2008 by k-rico]

David K - 12-20-2008 at 10:23 AM

But, isn't man a natural part of this planet... or do you believe we were dropped off here by aliens?

Iflyfish - 12-20-2008 at 10:47 AM

Religions including Nature Religions influence how one views data. It is very difficult to see the bones in our own noses. The earth is flat, the church told me so. Gia has a plan. If it is natural, it is good.

Iflyfishwhennotwadingthroughthedetritisofhumanhubrisgreedandignorance

Barry A. - 12-20-2008 at 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
Religions including Nature Religions influence how one views data. It is very difficult to see the bones in our own noses. The earth is flat, the church told me so. Gia has a plan. If it is natural, it is good.

Iflyfishwhennotwadingthroughthedetritisofhumanhubrisgreedandignorance

?????????? Who is "Gia"? -----and what is his/her plan?

Barry

Skipjack Joe - 12-20-2008 at 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
He spoke in Germany before a crowd of concert-goers in a scene reminiscent of N-zi Germany.

Why do you write stuff like this?

Do you realize how much it detracts from your credibility?

When I come across a statement like that I go no further. Anything you write before or after is immediately dismissed in my mind. As long as you keep peppering your threads with this sort of thing nobody will respect you. You're no longer in the off-topic board.

Dave - 12-20-2008 at 02:30 PM

There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination.

It is an area which we call "The gnukid Zone".

gnukid - 12-20-2008 at 02:35 PM

Thank you for the very appropriate humor Dave!

Look either way as a community we have common beliefs and goals, we are not that different and we would benefit from cooperation, tolerance, patience, kindness and skepticism.

David K - 12-20-2008 at 04:27 PM

Wow... I think I will plan a trip to Baja now!

k-rico - 12-20-2008 at 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
k-rico, thank you for being civil through this debate... Usually people of the same beliefs as you start name calling and insulting when their arguments are shown as false or questionable.

hahaha, that's funny.

[Edited on 12-21-2008 by k-rico]

Skipjack Joe - 12-21-2008 at 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
I am in fact German and our home in Bremen was bombed in the war and my family emigrated to NY.

I have extensive personal experience in the wrath of N-zi Germany under Hitler in the '30s-40s which was funded...

Thank you for providing these two sentences as perspective on your thoughts and conclusions. I can only imagine the trauma a young person must have felt being pursued during N-zi Germany. It obviously has really influenced your life a great deal.

But you're in the US now. This is a different country and it's best to judge things here on their own merit. The fears you experienced in Germany are really not applicable here. If you can, I would suggest that you leave the past alone and not let it influence your thinking here. What I'm trying to say is, that the lessons and fears you experienced in your youth, no matter how haunting, are best left behind and not allowed to cloud your judgment about current matters.

No fears here. Everything's going to be all right.