BajaNomad - Driving on washboard

Driving on washboard

marchesi - 12-18-2008 at 08:37 AM

This might be a dumb post but it's worth a try... What is the secret of driving on washboard? My theory was to drive at the magic speed that seems to stop the rattling. Depending on the size of washboard I have gone up to 60 MPH. However, recently I blew my shocks (not sure that was the reason however). Are there any tricks to reduce the effects, both on the rig and on the bones, of this annoying Baja reality. TWB, I rode a mountain bike without shocks from San Felipe to the mountains above Loreto. It was a very intimate experience with the buggers...

shari - 12-18-2008 at 08:42 AM

reduce tire pressure....we have ours between 20 & 25 lbs...just a little bulge on the bottom to smooth out the ride...and a good speed helps too if it's not too large a washboard...if you go fast with too much tire pressure, you fish tale around. Also one wheel up on the bank helps reduce it too and look where other local cars drive...some smoother parts.

Diver - 12-18-2008 at 08:43 AM

No secrets - washboard s-cks !
Lower air pressure and finding the best speed is all you can do.
Lighter rigs with larger tires also seem to work better ie Toyota pick-up etc.
You cannot make an F350 crew work well in washboard - I know !

El Jefe - 12-18-2008 at 08:56 AM

All of the above are good ideas. We live 12 miles out a dirt road, and believe me, we have gotten to know washboard quite well. We keep 12 PSI in the Jeep Grand Cherokee tires and about 22 PSI in the big Dodge diesel pickup. That is a pretty healthy sidewall bulge in the tires. In three years of driving the road we have had only one tire blow due to side wall damage. We use BFG's. I would rather replace tires than the other more expensive things that rattle loose, fall off or self-destruct. And that includes our own bodies!

If we are going to go any distance on the pavement, we air up when we get to town, but othewise we just take it easy going to the grocery store etc. Kind of squishy on the pavement, but doesn't seem to be a problem as long as you take it slowly.

Usually the washboard isn't as bad on the left side of an up-hill grade or the right side going down. Just watch out for on coming traffic!

Udo - 12-18-2008 at 09:37 AM

I have to endorse the tire pressure.
My FJ Cruiser (Toyota) we dropped the presure to 15 psi. The CJ5 ite was 12. My Toyota pickup was also 12 psi. There was another car (yes a car) that we dropped to 10 psi. I have a liquid oxygen tank that will fill about 20 tires that I keep with me in Baja. It's a little bigger that a small propane bottle. Original cost for the tire kit was $150.00. You can buy those at any welding supply place and Cameron's has it on sale right now.
As fas as the speed: With full air pressure, it's about 15-18 mph. With pressure down 45 to 65 mph depending on how heavy the vehicle is. If towing...18mph is IT!
That's my experience in 40 years of driving Baja.

[Edited on 12-18-2008 by udowinkler]

David K - 12-18-2008 at 11:01 AM

Agree with above as a solution, but also recommend nitrogen gas shocks (Bilstein, etc.) that won't foam out like oil filled (Detroit) shocks.

I usually do not air down for washboard personally because in my Tacoma I can get up to speed (40-60 mph) on the washboard and not worry about sidewall damage from deflated tires. Since last year, I also added Ride Rite air springs (air bags) and eliminated the bottoming out a loaded Tacoma experiences with the soft, stock leaf springs.

BajaGringo - 12-18-2008 at 11:59 AM

Udo:

Instead of having to carry a liquid O2 bottle, I just carry a very nice little compressor that runs off my inverter and will air up a flat tire in less than a minute. Seems easier and less hazardous. Got the compressor at Harbor Freight for around $60 as I recall.

Makes airing down/up a lot easier...

David K - 12-18-2008 at 12:11 PM

Works for me! Under $50 frequently at Harbor Freight on sale. Muy rapido!

207 113r.JPG - 38kB

gnukid - 12-18-2008 at 12:21 PM

Once I tried a technique on washboard, I drove about 90-100 mph on a washboard for about a half hour. The vehicle had heavy suspension and tires for off road. When I arrived at the end of the trail I found the muffler had fallen off, the brake lines had fallen off and the battery had become dislodged, bounced off the roof of the hood, shorted wiring and was loosing fluid. I had done probably a few hundred dollars damage, I did rescue some Mexicans with aborken steering column and they gave me the biggest sierra ever, a 36 inch fish.

Once I arrived at los Frailes I cut the engine and when I tried to move found that the battery had been bouncing causing a hole which allowed the water to leak out entirely. I let it dry, patched it with surfboard epoxy and tape and added water and bungy corded the ol battery in place and she started back up so we could continue the adventure.

I have seen a simple washboard destroy a vehicle including big old 4x4s. Over time I have learned that its best to be very very conservative perhaps try for 20mph with low tire pressure but be ready to slow down to a crawl especially at low points which can cause serious issues as you nose dive into a vado. It is a pleasure to arrive at your remote destination with the capacity to leave your remote destination. I do bring two spares, two jacks and an air pump.

40 to 60 David K?

John M - 12-18-2008 at 01:18 PM

Wow, that is something I would not attempt with a relatively stock vehicle. I endorse the idea of reduced air pressure and slow. As David said, the oil shocks get so hot you'd have a hard time touching it after just a few miles.

In my CJ-7 (BFG all-terrains) 12 to 14 lbs was about the best I found for pressure.

My Tacoma (BFG all-terrains) - I've gotten good results with 15 lbs - next time I may go lower to check it out.

Of course I'm not at any kind of speed, I would guess no more than 15 mph.

I'd get there - just that it would be an hour and a half after David -

What ever works for you I guess.

John M

Baja12valve - 12-18-2008 at 01:41 PM

Soft suspension helps. I have had stiff 4x4's and all they do is rattle, bounce and shake all over the place, makes washboard driving a drag. Lowering the tires allows them to flex, adding that little bit of extra absorbing qualities to the suspension, makes a huge difference. Larger diameter tires roll over bumps better than small ones. If you have 4x4 capacity, use it. I put mine in 4x4 mode no matter what, if I am on any dirt road. I find that having power to the front wheels allows them to go over washboard much easier. Also better handling, braking, steering, everything. My truck is heavy, hitting 8000 lbs full. I run my tires, 185/75/16 BFG AT, @ 40 psi and I can go pretty much any speed I want. My truck handles the washboard better than any truck I have ever owned, no rattles, very smooth. Soft sand is another story.

Paulclark - 12-18-2008 at 05:21 PM

Low air pressure -- 18 to 20 lbs in a F150 super crew and over 40 miles per hour -- and reservoir gas shocks. -- Without the reservoir shocks the shocks overheat and fail -- or just work inefficiently. And BFG's. I put 20,000 miles a year on Baja washboard and that is what I have learned. Going slow works too---if you have the time and patience.

Pops - 12-18-2008 at 06:16 PM

Wash Board, Swashboard !! :light:

25 psi

Just go for it !!

BajaWarrior - 12-18-2008 at 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
No secrets - washboard s-cks !
Lower air pressure and finding the best speed is all you can do.
Lighter rigs with larger tires also seem to work better ie Toyota pick-up etc.
You cannot make an F350 crew work well in washboard - I know !

I don't know Diver. I drove from Bahia Asuncion to Campo Rene at about 60 mph and it was pretty smooth. Of course, I just had to check the heat of my Bilsteins out of curiousity, burned my fingertips and had drive 60 again one handed while cooling the burned fingers hand with a cold beverage from the cooler, I believe it was a Pacifico, and after several that seemed to help smooth out the road also...

That truck is sold but got another one that looks just like it just newer and deisel.

reduced2371.jpg - 23kB

David K - 12-18-2008 at 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John M
Wow, that is something I would not attempt with a relatively stock vehicle. I endorse the idea of reduced air pressure and slow. As David said, the oil shocks get so hot you'd have a hard time touching it after just a few miles.

In my CJ-7 (BFG all-terrains) 12 to 14 lbs was about the best I found for pressure.

My Tacoma (BFG all-terrains) - I've gotten good results with 15 lbs - next time I may go lower to check it out.

Of course I'm not at any kind of speed, I would guess no more than 15 mph.

I'd get there - just that it would be an hour and a half after David -

What ever works for you I guess.

John M

To me half the fun of a Baja trip is driving on bad roads!

The 40-60 mph roads are the long, wide, graded ones (south of L.A. Bay, Tortugas, Valle Chico, etc.) ... (15 mph is more suited to the road south of Puertecitos that suffers from lack of grading and replacing the top dirt that washed away... all the exposed big rocks.)

Here's a 40-60 mph graded, washboard road...

[Edited on 12-19-2008 by David K]

6-18-06 072r.JPG - 26kB

Pops - 12-18-2008 at 06:30 PM

"I don't know Diver. I drove from Bahia Asuncion to Campo Rene at about 60 mph and it was pretty smooth. Of course, I just had to check the heat of my Bilsteins out of curiousity, burned my fingertips and had drive 60 again one handed while cooling the burned fingers hand with a cold beverage from the cooler, I believe it was a Pacifico, and after several that seemed to help smooth out the road also..."

Good one !!!! :tumble:

Ken Cooke - 12-18-2008 at 07:52 PM

My advice would be to lower your tire pressure to 20 pounds of pressure. THat way, your tire will stay seated on the bead of the rim, and you will have enough air to make it to the next town if you keep your speed under 40 m.p.h. while on asphalt.

A tire that is aired down will conform better to the rocks on the dirt road, and is less likely to get punctured than one that is 40 p.s.i. inflated. The jarring feel will also be reduced.

I also noticed that while on long stretches (Gonzaga Bay to Laguna Chapala/Hwy 1), if you drive on the opposite side of the road, the washboard isn't quite as bad. This reduces the jarring just a little bit.

I run an adjustable monotube shock - the ProComp MX6. You can adjust the rebound AND compression to suit your needs. 'soft' is best on washboard. But, you are more likely to bottom out. Hence, David K's airbag modification.

Just keep the speed down to something manageable. You never know when a wild burro will walk out in front of your speeding vehicle while out there in Baja. :!:

If you want to air your tires up REALLY FAST, get the VIAIR EXTREME AIR system - ~$550 and you'll be airing up David K! :lol:

[Edited on 12-19-2008 by Ken Cooke]

bajaandy - 12-18-2008 at 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
If you want to air your tires up REALLY FAST, get the VIAIR EXTREME AIR system - ~$550 and you'll be airing up David K!

Does the price include the guard dog?

That picture is a classic!

Ken Cooke - 12-18-2008 at 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaandy

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
If you want to air your tires up REALLY FAST, get the VIAIR EXTREME AIR system - ~$550 and you'll be airing up David K!

Does the price include the guard dog?

That picture is a classic!

I loved placing my little guard dog in that picture. She's a good little Chihuahua that loves everyone.

Skip_Mac - 12-18-2008 at 11:58 PM

marchesi, You are smart to ask.

I spent more than a decade in the remote parts of the western USA (paid mineral prospector). Driving a company owned 4X4 was wonderful...They paid for tires and repairs.... Yeah, live fast, drive fast and die young. I experienced the smooth ride of the right (Fast) speed over miles of straight washboarded roads. The right speed works. BUT then the spacing changes on the washboard or a narrow trench from a flash flood cuts the washboard.. or a bend comes up...or a blind dip is suddenly in front of you...or a cow steps onto the road.....suddenly YOU are drifting with no control at high speed. Fun, if you live for adrenalin rushes. Also braking can be very tricky... Also field repairs on the front end tie rods, bent in a sudden trench can be exciting in the far outback, ripped out tires... long way back on foot.

I'm sober and still alive (someone up there really likes me)... I'll get the air pump and drive slower on lower tire pressure... after all IT's MY vehicle now, not Homestake Mining's. My life, what's left, so I'll enjoy it..

Slow down, enjoy the day and live to come back and tell us all your stories.

Udo - 12-19-2008 at 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
Udo:

Instead of having to carry a liquid O2 bottle, I just carry a very nice little compressor that runs off my inverter and will air up a flat tire in less than a minute. Seems easier and less hazardous. Got the compressor at Harbor Freight for around $60 as I recall.

Makes airing down/up a lot easier...

There is a Harbor Freight about 15 miles from my house. I think I'll take a look at that compressor.
Less than a minute sounds about as good as my liquid O2 tank, Bajagringo.
Thanks for the tip!

David K - 12-19-2008 at 04:31 PM

That depends on how much air you need to put back in Udo... I posted the times after I bought mine and used it... I will dig it up using Nomad Search... It was more than a minute, but three times faster than the smaller cig. lighter air pumps...

okay, found it

David K - 12-19-2008 at 04:35 PM

This was filling the Cooper Discoverer STT 265/70 X 16" tires

posted on 3-19-2007 at 05:06 PM

This one from Harbor Freight fills three times faster than the cigarette lighter ones... 6 psi per minute (1 psi per 10 seconds)... or 5 minutes from 10 psi to 40 psi.

The Coleman or other cig. lighter models only filled at 2 psi per minute (1 psi per 30 seconds)... or 15 minutes from 10 psi to 40 psi.

It connects to the battery, like jumper cables do, and has a gauge (not accurate, but once you know the error, just fill to the corrected point).

Since I got this one, I heard that Baja Nomad's Tienda now offers one like it... That way you can support the site!

marchesi - 12-26-2008 at 04:01 PM

Hey you guys, didn't realize how many replies came to my post! Great, great advise...
I drive a 4x4 ford sportsmobile which, believe it or not, weighs around 10,000 pounds. I imagine a 25 to 30psi would do the trick... I also have an airextreme compressor and will be able to adjust. I am amazed some of you guys drive with psi as low as 10... We are driving right now from Montana in one of the biggest snow storms ever. Can't wait for cactuses and sand!

David K - 12-26-2008 at 04:12 PM

The heavier the rig, the less air needs to be removed for a smoother ride... or should be.

The only deflating I usually do is for beach/ deep sand driving 10-15 psi depending on the tire type, with my Tacoma ('05 4 door).

I would seriously never go below 20 psi for washboard, as you will damage the sidewall should there be a sharp rock encounter, IMO.

Ken Cooke - 12-27-2008 at 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David KI would seriously never go below 20 psi for washboard, as you will damage the sidewall should there be a sharp rock encounter, IMO.

David, I saw an article on this in Petersons 4WD and Off Road. It showed how a tire that is deflated in 5 p.s.i. increments can envelope a small rock at speeds. Of course, tire type (Radial/Bias-Ply) and also tire size were variables, but the consensus was that for a tire to be deflated to roughly 10-15 p.s.i. would allow it's tread section to survive hitting a small/sharp rock. Now, the sidewall strengh is an entirely different story. Running those Cooper tires you mentioned in your Off-Road thread, I'd also stay inflated to 20 p.s.i. But, with an aired down Bias-Ply 'Swamper for example, I would feel comfortable airing down to 10 p.s.i. without any worries. It all depends on how comfortable you are with the sidewalls you are running.

David K - 12-27-2008 at 01:29 PM

I will let my suspension do the work on washboards and save my tires from getting flats... I have had ZERO flat tires in the 3 years and 3+ sets of tires on this truck...

Sharksbaja - 12-27-2008 at 03:55 PM

Beadlocks for exteme duty, especially at high speeds with low press. Depending on sidewall strength I wouldn't suggest going any lower than 22 psi for most off the shelf tires. Personally I run 30-35 offroad. Air up to 60 for hiways and air down to 18-20 for deeper sand. The "pinching" you get varies from tire to tire and heavy loads require enough rubber/cords to minimize the stress on the sidewall. For me, aside from a couple of freak flats, most ruined tires were due to their lack of puncture/gash protection on the sidewalls.

Tis a shame they quit offering real 10 ply tires. I ran 14X17.5x38 10 ply military forklift lugs for many years. They were regrooveable and had incredibly thick sidewalls. They were very heavy tires that tended to "chunk", were noisy on hiways and not easy to find. Went thru many wheel bearings. :lol:

Also rubber was not as advanced in the 70s and tires wore more quickly. Eventually Firestone started making that size in nondirectional w/10 ply ratings. They were a good tire but were noisy and expensive but better for hiway use, especially wet surfaces.

TMW - 12-28-2008 at 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Tis a shame they quit offering real 10 ply tires. I ran 14X17.5x38 10 ply military forklift lugs for many years. They were regrooveable and had incredibly thick sidewalls. They were very heavy tires that tended to "chunk", were noisy on hiways and not easy to find. Went thru many wheel bearings. :lol:

When you were running the forklift tires weren't you concerned with the tire coming apart on the highway? I would think a tire built for a forklift would not have much of a speed rating. I have silicone filled tires as the guide tires on my snowcat and they come apart, maybe two or three a year out of 10 tires depending on use.

Sharksbaja - 12-28-2008 at 03:08 PM

These tires were for offroad loaders. They put them on other heavy duty vehicles as well.
Hook, surprisingly well balanced they did require some extra lead but worked quite well. Never had one fail in 10 years of different sets. Just didn't wear too well on asphalt. We ran tubes in them as they weren't considered "tubeless". They were typically used on split-rims. They performed great offroad but not great in wet weather on hard surfaces.

Gadget - 12-29-2008 at 04:28 PM

You guys all noticed Marchi said he was driving a sports mobile right?
He can't air down very much, go fast, turn hard, stop fast, throttle through a g-out vado, swerve for a burro etc.
He's got the premier land yacht Baja cruiser rig.
I bet you have enough spare coin around to just add some time for slower travel in your vacation plans and cruise nice and mellow like that rig deserves.
Remember, when you get to camp in that palace, to lend a can opener to the ferrel surf bum who can't remember where he put his, to open a cold can of beans cause he did too many bong loads last night.
I'd own one of those things if I didn't like going fast so much. :saint:

ohhhhh........I just read the specs!

Sharksbaja - 12-29-2008 at 05:16 PM

$60k-$90k
WAY GOOD TO GO! :yes:

[Edited on 12-30-2008 by Sharksbaja]

Paulclark - 1-2-2009 at 08:17 PM

If you are driving a Ford 150 better reinforce your rear differential -- I've broken every one I haven't reinforced -- at under 4,000 miles on a new F150 super crew --- I usually weld on a chrome moly truss, but you can buy a bolt on.

taxcutter - 1-2-2009 at 08:55 PM

Finding the right tire pressure is found by trial and error.

I usually cruise with 22-25 psi in the dirt, washboard.
35-38 psi on the pavement.

On the washboard, I like driving on the wrong side of the road.
I can find the line easier.

But each car, truck, etc., has it's own sweet spot for speed verses rattle.

I generally cruise between 25 and 35 mph on the washboard, slowing down for turns and vado's.

Here's a photo of side wall failure.

737395-R1-027-12_014.jpg - 44kB

Skipjack Joe - 1-6-2009 at 09:35 AM

Best way to deal with washboards? - drive on split roads.