BajaNomad

Air Alaska to Loreto

capn.sharky - 12-20-2008 at 09:32 PM

How come it has become so expensive to fly round trip to and from Loreto? There is no competition except Delta (I think). If Fonatur wants to develop this area they should talk with the airlines to get cheaper flights from LAX to LTO. Can't be the cost of Avgas---oil has really dropped in price. How can it be cheaper to fly to Cabo or La Paz when they are farther away. I really miss the old days of AeroCalifornia. At my age, driving down is no longer an option. Any ideas? I am sure that the cost of flying is part of the problem of no tourists in Loreto. Maybe I should be happy about the price as it keeps the gringos away. On the other hand, I don't like to see my Mexican friends fighting for every dollar they get.

Bajaboy - 12-20-2008 at 09:56 PM

I think you answered your own question...there is no competition.

LOSARIPES - 12-21-2008 at 03:21 AM

The airlines -as other businesses- have an operational cost. They determine, after careful analysis a "break even point" load factor (LF) or percentage of the aircraft seats sold, necessary to pay for the ops cost.
When the LF is low, the fares need to be higher. Conversely, the lower the fares, the higher the LF needed to reach the so called break even point.

It is not uncommon to see state/fed government as well other assoc. with interest participate in programs whereby they guarantee each flight will reach its break even point by paying the difference between actual LF and the desired LF.

La Paz was into those programs -not sure- with old airlines (defunct by now) as Bonanza and Hughes Airwest (remember?)

It doesn't help that there is only one airline.

There is also a co-relation or ratio between no. of beds in the destination and weekly no. of aircraft seats. This determines the flight capacity and frequency necessary to fill the destination. Generally, -I don't know about Loreto- the airlines complain about the lack of hotel capacity when it comes to incipient tourist destinations as LTO.

So.... in my humble opinion, Alaska and Fonatur maybe are/have been working on a deal and what they are doing now is the best they could. Just maybe.

Pompano - 12-21-2008 at 08:58 AM

Loreto is no longer a good choice for us either, capt. sharkey...at least for now.

A round trip ticket from Mpls, Minnesota to Cabo with 1 stop was/is $560 for Christmas arrival SJD and departure SJD in March. Beats the heck out of over $1000 to LTO with a grueling overnight flight.

Resort Airlines
Aero California
Guenell Air
Cortez Air
Mexicana
United
etc..none to Loreto anymore

Thank Dios for mi amigo, Dusty..Free....just pay a share of fuel costs and bring your own coffee can and lid.

"Fly with Dusty..to places you probably shouldn't be."

Bajahowodd - 12-21-2008 at 12:23 PM

There was a brief period when Alaska, Delta and Frontier were flying to LTO. Load factors must have been awful. As it is, it's probably a subsidized situation with Alaska. Let's face it, an international flight to a town with a population of 10,000??!

I'm more surprised at the lack of service and the high costs for flights to La Paz, which has a population of more than ten times Loreto.

Even Cabo has seen a decrease in the number of seats recently. But things may change in the coming year, what with the Southwest-Volaris code share agreement. Even now, people in SoCal can take Volaris from TJ to Cabo. But you don't see Volaris flying to LTO, do you?

Packoderm - 12-21-2008 at 05:03 PM

Do they have flights from Cabo to Loreto?

Bajahowodd - 12-21-2008 at 05:09 PM

Nothing on a scheduled airline. Even prices from LAX to Cabo fluctuate wildly. It was that many years ago I could fly that route for about $200. Although fares are currently lower, I have recently seen fares on that route for over $500. Bottom line is that the airlines are not going to fly unless they fill seats. Last June, I drove from LA to Cabo staying over in El Rosario, San Ignacio and Loreto, and saved about $500 from what it would have cost to fly two people.

Don Alley - 12-21-2008 at 06:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Packoderm
Do they have flights from Cabo to Loreto?


You can take a single-engine Aero Calafia flight from Cabo to Loreto, costs about 1200 pesos.

Bajahowodd - 12-21-2008 at 06:02 PM

Is that one way?

Don Alley - 12-21-2008 at 06:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Is that one way?


I think so, but don't know for sure. The web site is not working right for me.

http://www.aereocalafia.com.mx/en/index.php

I see the planes fly over my house, big Cessnas.

fdt - 12-21-2008 at 07:01 PM

Days gone by



Have you donated to the toy drive yet?

Bajahowodd - 12-21-2008 at 08:50 PM

Called the number, but it's disconnected.

mulegemichael - 12-21-2008 at 09:14 PM

...here's part of the problem...probably a BIG part....and i'm no guru when it comes to this stuff...but i remember back when gas prices were sky high, the airline folks "bet" on a price...guessed and gambled on the idea that it wouldn't go any higher and that's where they locked in. "We are gonna gamble that it's gonna get a bunch higher and we will be willing to pay this horrible price but no more"...or some such crap....so...we are still paying this exhorbitant price for avgas when, in fact, it's now down to a price that is 1/3 of what it was just a couple months ago...ok..did i confuse you enough?...or did anyone follow what i just tried to explain?...there's a "term" for this kinda thing but i'm not sure what it is...hedging your bets comes to mind

Packoderm - 12-21-2008 at 09:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pompano
Loreto is no longer a good choice for us either, capt. sharkey...at least for now.

A round trip ticket from Mpls, Minnesota to Cabo with 1 stop was/is $560 for Christmas arrival SJD and departure SJD in March. Beats the heck out of over $1000 to LTO with a grueling overnight flight.


OK, so theoretically you pay $560 to get to Cabo (round trip - it damned sure better be), stay at Club Cabo, or equivalently cheap, and have drinks at The Office, then make your way to Loreto for 240 pesos round trip. Sure, that's a bunch of bucks, but it is a sight better that paying $1,000 for a punishing overnighter.

Myself, I bought a $250 junker van which I pray to the holy-ghouly makes it all the way to Cabo, and then three of us are flying back to Sac. for $230 apiece total price apiece. Actually, it's a pretty nice van. I just today fitted it with a double bed setup I got on craigslist for free. It already had a bench seat for my son to ride/sleep. If the van doesn't make it - we take the bus to Cabo. I'm going to suggest/force my 8 year old son to put together a photo/written journal, which I'll post as a trip report. I'll explain to him how cool it is to post a trip report, and then his writing will have a purpose. I'm pretty stoked about the trip even though the dog stays home. :(

Packoderm - 12-21-2008 at 09:17 PM

...and the VW bus stays home too. :(

Bajahowodd - 12-21-2008 at 09:27 PM

Yes, Michael. That's why Southwest Airlines posted their first quarterly loss in their history recently. They had been flying high (pun intended) the past couple of years because they had hedged their fuel purchases at a "lower" price. When the bottom fell out, they found themselves paying way over current market price. But then, Wall Street has become the biggest casino in the world.

cajhawk - 12-23-2008 at 10:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by capn.sharky
How come it has become so expensive to fly round trip to and from Loreto? There is no competition except Delta (I think). If Fonatur wants to develop this area they should talk with the airlines to get cheaper flights from LAX to LTO. Can't be the cost of Avgas---oil has really dropped in price. How can it be cheaper to fly to Cabo or La Paz when they are farther away. I really miss the old days of AeroCalifornia. At my age, driving down is no longer an option. Any ideas? I am sure that the cost of flying is part of the problem of no tourists in Loreto. Maybe I should be happy about the price as it keeps the gringos away. On the other hand, I don't like to see my Mexican friends fighting for every dollar they get.


It is all about competition and load factors. That is also why it is usually cheaper for me to fly from San Diego to Europe than it is to fly from San Diego to South Dakota (where my wife is from). Cabo flights are more competitive and are usually fuller. When Alaska and Delta were competing in GOOD economic times the Delta flights were rarely half full. FONATUR is no longer assisting Loreto to any extent; it is now left up to the free market.

flyfishinPam - 12-23-2008 at 11:25 AM

geeze my quote went away gotta try again..

Free market rules.
There are a number of reasons why the airlines into here are lacking and it boils down to demand. There is less of it than in past years because Loreto has lost a few hotels (30-40% of the rooms) that offered commissions to travel agents and agencies (such as the in house agencies the airlines own). The fact that agents will have to mark up a hotels rates that doesn't offer commission vs. sell a pre-packaged product that includes their commission without a markup may explain why agents have little to no motive to sell this destination. With this situation they also are less likely to promote LTO packages as well. Maybe with all the grand plans around here this will change but those additions will need to be what the market for the LTO destination can bear. At this time it is a natural wonder and excursion type of destination suited to adventure travel and sport. Fancy hotels and restaurants with equally fancy pricetags won't bring them in just because they will decide to open their doors. So for a certain crowd that knows what they are coming here for, the couple of hundred extra for the airfare will be worth it so as long as they KNOW what to expect and are not duped into thinking that Loreto is something that it is not (not yet anyway). I would like to see our business community come together and provide an excellent level service and a quality vacation experience in every way. This will ensure repeat visitors and also create more demand for this destination. It takes time but its worth it and better than the alternative, that of the government intervening and telling us what we need and what kind of destination to be. When there's a worthy demand there will be more options but for now we gots what we gots.

Feliz Navidad everyone!

[Edited on 12-23-2008 by flyfishinPam]

Bajahowodd - 12-23-2008 at 11:28 AM

Not that I ever want to see it come to it, but why is it that FONATUR was never able to launch the mega resort at Loreto like Cabo and Cancun? I thought that's what they had in mind way back when. I understand they are just getting started on a new mainland project North of PV.

As for airfare- maybe deregulation wasn't the answer. Just a few weeks back I noticed prices from LAX to Honolulu, London and Cabo were within $30 of each other. A two hour flight versus a eight hour flight. (Cabo v London)

flyfishinPam - 12-23-2008 at 11:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by morgaine7
Quote:
Originally posted by capn.sharky
How can it be cheaper to fly to Cabo or La Paz when they are farther away.

FWIW, La Paz is no better off for direct flights to LAX. Alaska/Horizon is it. Though we have a much larger population than Loreto, there are probably not many more travelers to and from the US. When trying to book a holiday trip to visit family in Ohio, I was coming up with outrageous connections for $1300 USD and up. Last May, when Delta was still flying, the same trip was $700-something. I finally got one for $1000, red-eye and 4-5 flight legs in each direction. Whatta deal! :rolleyes:

Kate


at least La Paz is closer than the 7-8 hour ONE WAY bus trip! Flying SJC for the LAP destination is a pretty reasonable option.

The Gull - 12-23-2008 at 12:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Called the number, but it's disconnected.


Probably best not to fly them, ya think?

Debra - 12-23-2008 at 01:08 PM

You will have to do some research (or have your Travel Agent do it for you)

A trick us old Agents used to use was..............

Say there is a flight to Los Cobos with a stop in Loreto, what we would do is book the round trip to SJD, AFTER the ticket is issued you cancel the Lto-SJD rt portion. You have to cancel that or when you don't show for first SJD portion the airline will cancel all down line legs do to the no show. This gives you the rt lower fare.

[Edited on 12-23-2008 by Debra]

[Edited on 12-23-2008 by Debra]

Don Alley - 12-23-2008 at 01:18 PM

Bah, Humbug department:

Today's flight from LAX to Loreto was canceled. "Weather related," despite good weather here and in LA.

Our kids from upstate New York are stuck in LA with two small children until Thursday. Bummer.

Any help from Alaska Air with hotels for two nights? Nope. That's not required if the problem is "weather related."

Seems they don't have crew available that have not used up their allowed work hours.

And there are no longer other airlines, other options.

Bajahowodd - 12-23-2008 at 01:27 PM

Does LTO receive any domestic flights? Like from the mainland?

Debra - 12-23-2008 at 01:28 PM

Don, the problem is probably that the flight was coming in from a weather problemed area. If the planes can't get in, they aren't there to get out.

Paula - 12-23-2008 at 01:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Debra
Don, the problem is probably that the flight was coming in from a weather problemed area. If the planes can't get in, they aren't there to get out.



No, Debra. On hearing that the flight was cancelled I called the Alaska office at the Loreto airport. I was told that although the weather is fine all the way from LA to Loreto, Alska has used up all of it's pilot hours on delays from days back. The plane is ready, but there is no crew available. Alaska still calls this a weather problem, so the kids are stuck in LA for 2 days at their own expense. I would call this schedule related, or perhaps competence related myself. I find it amazing that they can do no better than to put these travelers on Thursday's plane!

They left Syracuse NY on Sunday, flew to Chicago, then on to LA to spend 2 nights with other family members. Both planes left within 20 minutes of scheduled time. With storms all across the northern US, who would have guessed problem would be LA??

bajabeachbabe - 12-23-2008 at 03:01 PM

Having flown many times from Seattle to Loreto on Alaska, often the plane flying the leg from LAX to LTO is a continuation of a flight from either Seattle or Portland. Seattle and Portland have had major snow problems since last week, including a lack of de-icer that caused further delays. Alaska is only flying about 50% of their flights today out of Seattle.

I'm now worried about getting to Loreto this Thursday. As I recall the Thursday flight was full the last time I checked. There certainly wasn't capacity for two planeloads of people. :?:

Paula - 12-23-2008 at 03:22 PM

Our kids now have seats assigned on the Thursday flight. Our daughter who is coming from Seattle that day is worried that she might get bumped so that her sister can get here!

bajabeachbabe - 12-23-2008 at 03:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Paula
Our kids now have seats assigned on the Thursday flight. Our daughter who is coming from Seattle that day is worried that she might get bumped so that her sister can get here!


Thats my concern too. We're flying on the same flight. There are 4 of us. Plus, the Seattle weather looks pretty iffy for Thursday - maybe more snow.

The only good thing is that the Horizon plane that flys on Tuesday is about 1/2 the capacity of the Alaska 737 that flys on Thursday.

Ahhh, the adventures of traveling around Christmas.

flyfishinPam - 12-23-2008 at 05:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Debra
You will have to do some research (or have your Travel Agent do it for you)

A trick us old Agents used to use was..............

Say there is a flight to Los Cobos with a stop in Loreto, what we would do is book the round trip to SJD, AFTER the ticket is issued you cancel the Lto-SJD rt portion. You have to cancel that or when you don't show for first SJD portion the airline will cancel all down line legs do to the no show. This gives you the rt lower fare.

[Edited on 12-23-2008 by Debra]
[Edited on 12-23-2008 by Debra]


this is not an option for LTO. the flight comes in from LAX then turns around and goes back it does not continue on into Mexico.

my edit to put my response after the quote tag



[Edited on 12-24-2008 by flyfishinPam]

[Edited on 12-24-2008 by flyfishinPam]

shari - 12-24-2008 at 08:31 AM

My nephew was in the same boat....er plane but somehow and we figured they too would be stranded till thursday but somehow miraculously they got the last flight out of LAX to LTO just in time and are here now.
During the bedlam, we were thinking about the possibility to fly them to Hermosillo and then get on the Guerrero Negro plane from there...the one that goes from Hermosillo, GN and Cedros.

I'm thinking in th efuture it might even be cheaper to fly from the states direct to Hermosillo and then schedule it to hook up with the Aero Cedros flight into GN.

Debra - 12-25-2008 at 06:58 AM

Yes Pam, that is why I said research would need to be done. I gave up the TA biz over 10yrs. ago. I mention the trick for general use. Can save bundles!