BajaNomad - Learning to Speak Mexican

Learning to Speak Mexican

Iflyfish - 12-27-2008 at 01:26 PM

After a long day on the leguna Enrique started to tell a story that sounded like this: “mi……secreto…..denero….encima …mi cama…el raton….cimida…e…mucho problema….banco” Leaning forward I was entranced as he recounted his tale. Snapping me out of my spell by the voice of Dave, my traveling companion, who is insistently asking “what is he saying!?". I really didn’t know for sure what he is saying but I have a picture in my head of this mouse eating his well soiled peso notes and his regret at not having used the bank. I recount this to Dave who then eases back for the rest of his tequila and the rest of the story.

I realize that I understand this like a child might understand the heated discussions of parents. There is meaning and like an uninvited drop in at a medical convention I can grasp the basic concepts of what is being said, or at least think that I can. I am reminded of how my twin brother and I taught each other to read by decoding our parents spelling in front of us “Do you think we should get some I..C..E..C..R..E..A..M..?”

I now know that language acquisition is first and foremost receptive and only then productive, I listen, learn and then I speak and sometimes I see through a glass darkly and hear things that I can actually understand.

Iflyfish

susanna - 12-27-2008 at 03:30 PM

Sorry, but Mexican is not a language. The language is spanish in Mexico.

Woooosh - 12-27-2008 at 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by susanna
Sorry, but Mexican is not a language. The language is spanish in Mexico.

Go to Spain and try speaking what they speak here in Mexico. It's a different language. They will make you feel like poor trash if you speak Mexican to them in Spain. The Mexicans and Spanish are so class-conscious that the two are very far apart.

I was surfing baja in the 80s with a friend from Peru. I didn't speak any spanish at the time. A security guard called the police because we were supposedly on a private beach. My Peruvian friend wouldn't even speak to the cop in Spanish- he said the language here was beneath him. And that was 25 years ago.

Send a black person fromthe south speaking ebonics to England and see what language they say he is speaking- it won't be english.

DianaT - 12-27-2008 at 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by susanna
Sorry, but Mexican is not a language. The language is spanish in Mexico.

Yes it is Spanish, but it is Mexican Spanish---very different from what is spoken in Spain and even in Central and South America. I am quite sure IFLYFISH is very well aware of that---so probably that is why he called it Mexican.

A good friend from Spain said that when she moved to Mexico City she really could not believe that the people were actually speaking Spanish, and was then highly insulted when they told her she spoke funny Spanish and with a funny accent.

It is the same---we speak a very different English than they speak accross the pond----Things like a fanny pack, a napkin, and slime have very different meanings.

Having taught ESL, it is interesting to watch the acquisition of language. Understanding does precede speaking. Of course it is easier with children --- the younger the better.

A good friend, who only speaks a couple of words in Spanish, has a two year old who has had a Spanish speaking nana for three days a week since he was a baby. The little guy understands Spanish and in beginning to speak more, he speaks both in Spanish and in English.

However, he distinguishes between the two very well. He will not speak any Spanish words to his mother, nor will he speak any English words to his nana.

Diane

Ken Cooke - 12-27-2008 at 04:53 PM

Anyone listen to Reggaeton? Ebonics en Español set to rhythm! :bounce:

I'm trying to pick up Costeñol at the moment. It is the Colombian equivalent of Ebonics that is only spoken in Central and Northern South America (Venezuela & Colombia).

Example:

Don't tell me anything.

Mexico:
No me digas nada.

Costeñol:
Oyiste! Tu No Me Diga Na!

Try speaking Costeñol in Barcelona for a real eye-opener! :lol:

Iflyfish - 12-27-2008 at 05:48 PM

I appreciate the comment regarding the use of the term Mexican in regard to the language spoken in Mexico. It is an honor to have ones writing read and commented upon.

It's a Mexican story that took place in Magdalena Bay, Baja California Sur. My Spanish is Mexican Spanish and mostly Frontera Mexican Spanish, Mexican Spanglish really. I understand the difference between Castilian Spanish and Mexican Spanish, though many of my childhood Mexican friends, like Dewey and Raymond, from Guadalajara, insisted that they were Spanish.

They taught Castilian in school in California, absolutely useless to me. I first learned my Mexican Spanish from Braceros with whom I picked fruit in the Santa Clara Valley in the late 1950’s. Later children taught me words on the beaches of Ensenada. Mexican Spanish as spoken in Puebla, where I am barely understood, is entirely different than that spoken in the El Forte in the Sonora. In Tlaxcala I also had trouble being understood. I once found my way to the Palenque in Queretaro by finally asking the taxi driver to take me to the Pollo Olímpico. I think I have been learning Mexican.

When we premiered our documentary film in Mexico City where I wore my suit I was frequently corrected unbidden by well intentioned people who felt my language proficiency was below my station. There appears to be a class distinction in Mexico that is reflected in the choice of words that one uses. This of course is also true in the USofA where the upper classes and professionals have a jargon of their own that separates them from the “masses”.

There is a sort of naïveté inherent in the use of the term Mexican in this context and it is that naïveté that I am trying in part to express. I also anticipated that its use would grab attention. I see no offense in the use of the term and hope none is taken. My purpose is to encourage those of us who are trying to learn a new language with a story and to have the courage to make mistakes.

I hope that this post will encourage more discussion on the topic of learning another language. I am pleased to read the comments so far.

I am wondering if native Mexican speakers are offended by the use of the term Mexican in reference to their language. I have heard non native speakers of American English as opposed to the Queen's English refer to New World English as American.

Iflyfish

Paladin - 12-27-2008 at 06:14 PM

Years ago my wife and went to Matzalan and she was able to converse very well with the locals and workers. She is 1st generation Californian from Mexican parents. She is also a Public Health Nurse so she sees farmworkers as clients almost daily. No problem, speaks the same "language".

The funny thing was the place we stayed was very popular with the rich Mexicans from Mexico City. My wife missed half of what they said, very difficult for her to communicate.

It was easier to just talk in english which they knew as well as I do.

Iflyfish - 12-27-2008 at 07:23 PM

Paladin

I have found Mexicans in the main to be very tolerant of my Spanglish. Often after they politely listen to me for a while, they ask if I might want to speak in English. :biggrin:

Iflyfish

Sallysouth - 12-27-2008 at 08:06 PM

Just as Diane told her story, I too , have little blond haired, baby blue eyed G-kids, ages 2 and five, speak both languages fluently.They speak Spanish at school and to the Nanny, English and Spanish with their parents.Only English to me except when I am visiting them in Baja.Having spent many years in Baja, I find I lose a lot of my "Spanish/Mexican" speaking capabilties when I can't get down for a good amount of time.However, two or three margaritas and it just seems to flow freely!I have found the locals really respect you for even trying to speak the language, even if you are not correct.I always ask if I am saying something the way it should be said and always get the response with respect. I will tell them that I want to speak en Mexicano correcto!

Can you catch what this guy is saying?

Ken Cooke - 12-27-2008 at 08:29 PM

Feliz Navidad y Un Prospero Año Nuevo!

30 second video

Iflyfish - 12-27-2008 at 11:25 PM

Ken

Something like you geta the checka checka checka and merry christmas and happy new year?

Iflyfish

Ken Cooke - 12-27-2008 at 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
Ken

Something like you geta the checka checka checka and merry christmas and happy new year?

Iflyfish

Costeñol is probably the funniest form of Spanish I have ever heard spoken.

Oso - 12-28-2008 at 02:50 PM

Ningun P-nche gachupin me hace sentir menos a mi. Con sus bocas llenas de avena, todos suenan como asquerosos maricones. Me lo pelan, pues. :fire:

Cypress - 12-28-2008 at 02:57 PM

Just spend some time south of the border. You'll learn! :yes:

Iflyfish - 12-28-2008 at 05:23 PM

Oso

Si, si como no? Antes de P-nche "tiberones de calle wall regreso con mi denero!"

Pescadordeinsectos

Osprey - 12-29-2008 at 07:42 AM

Flyguy, you forgot to warn about the danger here. I only speak what I hear my Mexican neighbors say. All the gringos come to me to translate for them so it was natural they chose me to be their emissary to the delegacion. The people at the delegacion were pleased to have me in that position because they know I don't speak Spanish. Both groups got cheated. While that's going on I'm studying Spanish now and soon both groups will ask me to go away.

Iflyfish - 12-29-2008 at 08:35 AM

Osprey

Viva Mexico!

Iflyfish

Miette - 12-29-2008 at 09:46 AM

Iflyfish Thanks for your post. I think your replies and a few others are right on the money regarding the version of Spanish that is spoken in your area. Perhaps people wouldn't get so flustered and up in arms if they thought in terms of a dialect.

Two thoughts came to mind after reading your post.

My little bit of Spanish speaking ability comes from 5 years of classes in New England schools. I slowly figured out how incompetent (though, sometimes well-intended) my teachers were when I attempted to speak with any native Spanish-speaking people.

One really sad day, the teacher informed the class to not to bother learning the familiar verb forms as we would never be using them.

The people that spoke Spanish around me when I was young were from Puerto Rico, Cuba, Dominican Republic, etc. They would not be understood in Spain or in Mexico - not easily, is the point.

Just as I found out when I drove across the US, traveling from Connecticut due south, and continuing through the south, eventually connecting with Route 66 and on into California. I consider myself to be fluent in English. I was not at all familiar with the dialect of Louisiana and then, Texas.

Same sort of thing applies traveling throughout Mexico. And, we have only touched lightly on the topic of slang!

My other thought was about the many days I spent in Los Barriles. I shopped everyday at a little store and spoke my best version of Spanish that I could manage. From all appearances the man running the store did not speak English and most of his customers were locals.

The first few days I would ask him for various items in my bad Spanish and use hand gestures and point to similar items to suggest what I was looking for. Finally, on the fourth day, I was fairly well-supplied and I came in to look for one missing item. I decided not to disturb the man and try to find what I was looking for by myself.

I wandered down both aisles and looked at everything on the shelves from top to bottom. On my third trip around the store, he leaned over his counter and in perfect English said to me, "What are you looking for?"

In a single moment we both instantly understood what had been going on for the past few days and were we stood at that moment. I could be wrong as I simply smiled and took this all in stride, but here is my interpretation.

He had appreciated that I was trying to communicate in the local language. As long as we both were happy (he smiled a lot, I smiled a lot) we both spoke rudimentary Spanish to each other. On the fourth day, I crossed the invisible line of being a tourist/passing-through type of visitor to a more regular customer that might be hanging around a bit longer; and I had shown respect to him and for the area that I was visiting.

In a flash, I also realized, just as the locals had no idea of how much of their conversation I understood, I had no idea of how much English they understood and how proficient they were with spoken English.

I smiled so much that day my cheeks hurt when I went to bed.

Iflyfish - 12-29-2008 at 09:52 AM

Mietta

A gosh mum twernt nutin

Iflyfishwhennottossinbait

Woooosh - 12-29-2008 at 10:10 AM

Luckily EVERYONE speaks dollars. The universal language.

pelone - 12-29-2008 at 10:46 AM

:lol:

It is always surprising to find that folks who love Baja, who embrace the culture, who befriend the people, find it difficult to even try to speak with locals. Spanglish is a nice compromise and serves to indicate that we are at least trying to have a conversation.

It has been said that learning Spanish in Baja is like going to the Ozarks to learn to speak English.

However, I have been corrected by locals when I have used a vocabulary that is too pretentious and may be correct in Spain but does not fly in Baja.

I know that Spanish is often spoken in Mexico City. I don't live in Mexico City. I live on a peninsula that is more like an island and as language is constantly morphing and adapting to the needs of its speakers I need to use a manner that will be accepted by the majority of folks. A friend has chided me when she felt that I was to "Spanish" and told me to speak Mexican!!

Barry A. - 12-29-2008 at 11:08 AM

Iflyfish-----------

you said above, "----This of course is also true in the USofA where the upper classes and professionals have a jargon of their own that separates them from the “masses------”.

To me that is an interesting and curious statement--------I have never encountered that, tho I have had ample opportunity, I believe.

Barry

Iflyfish - 12-29-2008 at 11:25 AM

Barry

I once met one of George Bushes first cousins. Her first comment to me was about my shoes. I was at one point a real clothes horse. Ever notice the trend setting clothing of the rich? The clothes must be from just the right botique. The pin stripes a certain width, the tie of the right color (red for the Legislative Branch). The same is true with the choice of language. Daalinn I am sure that Aspen was deviiine this winter...so...you fill in the blanks. It is there is you listen with a somewhat detached ear. One would never be so rude or crude as to make a personal comment in proper company that was not charming unless it was a snide comment about someones gosh appearance and lack of taste. One appreciates ones station doesn't one? I was at polo with the duke, rather a fine fellow, such a gentleman. Were are you wintering? On it goes. Social Class is the dirty little secret in the USofA and we are mostly oblivious to it. We all to some extent represent our culture or subculture by our choice of clothing and language eh amigo?

Iflyfish

Ken Cooke - 12-29-2008 at 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MietteOne really sad day, the teacher informed the class to not to bother learning the familiar verb forms as we would never be using them.

My High School Profesora was a native of Barcelona (Spanish 1, 3, & AP4). I was told the exact same thing about the use of 'Vosotros'. Hearing the Spanish tourists in Helsinki speaking rapidly in an elevator, it was nearly impossible to follow them.

Learning the Language

MrBillM - 12-29-2008 at 11:51 AM

When I was a kid, I was told the most important words to remember were "Donde esta las putas ?, Cuantos Cuesta ? and Mas Cerveza Por Favor", but I found that you need more than that to get along.

Better than a co-worker friend of mine, though, who said that the only Spanish phrase she knew was "Come Caca". I asked if she found many opportunities to use that one. She said "All the Time". Knowing her well, it was probably true. She was someone who was "almost" as acerbic as I was and am. She got away with it, though, because she had MAGNIFICENT Natural Assets. There wasn't a guy who looked her in the eye.

In response to many comments I'd encountered over my sometimes aggressive driving habits, I created some bumper stickers for my vehicles which said "Aprendi Manejar en Mexico". Everybody got a kick out of those, including the Army guys at the checkpoints.

Barry A. - 12-29-2008 at 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
Barry

I once met one of George Bushes first cousins. Her first comment to me was about my shoes. I was at one point a real clothes horse. Ever notice the trend setting clothing of the rich? The clothes must be from just the right botique. The pin stripes a certain width, the tie of the right color (red for the Legislative Branch). The same is true with the choice of language. Daalinn I am sure that Aspen was deviiine this winter...so...you fill in the blanks. It is there is you listen with a somewhat detached ear. One would never be so rude or crude as to make a personal comment in proper company that was not charming unless it was a snide comment about someones gosh appearance and lack of taste. One appreciates ones station doesn't one? I was at polo with the duke, rather a fine fellow, such a gentleman. Were are you wintering? On it goes. Social Class is the dirty little secret in the USofA and we are mostly oblivious to it. We all to some extent represent our culture or subculture by our choice of clothing and language eh amigo?

Iflyfish

that's pretty funny----------I guess I see what you mean, but always just thought it was idle prattle of bored rich folks (mostly those satelite to the real money-makers in the family) with nothing better to talk about. They seldom talked that way in front of me (probably because they thought I was "beneath them" (??) ) :light:

.

For many years we spent a couple of weeks in Aspen over Christmas, then Vale and Glenwood Springs, and finally Breckenridge, and Hob-knobed with the money crowd, but always found them fun and entertaining, not snobbish at all, at least most of them.

My neuvo-rich brother-in-law always has kidded me about wearing socks with my sandals----maybe that is what you are talking about????? :lol:

We are all products of our unique experiences, and perceptions, and attitudes, I suppose.

If you want a lauguage challenge, go to the Outer Banks of North Carolina and try to understand the native "islanders" old-style-European-English-----now that is, shall we say, different, but still "English"-------you gotta love it, I say.

Barry

Bajafun777 - 12-29-2008 at 12:03 PM

I agree that the Spanish language we learned in high school and college is not what we use on the border or in Mexico to a certain degree. However, what you learn in school does set the basics down so you have a small window in which to speak or at least try to speak in getting across what you want. Ken, I have a hard enough time just speaking Mexican Spanish and would really have a mountain to climb to speak what you are trying to learn for use in South America. Mr. Bill in junior high we used the phrases you wrote and yes we practiced these phrases in San Luis, Mexico which was just a hope skip and a jump from Yuma. Time passes fast to where I am today and none of those phrases are used today. We learn to adapt and we learn what risky behavior and risky talking gets us don't we :saint:

????? Later, bajafun777

Ken Cooke - 12-29-2008 at 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajafun777
Ken, I have a hard enough time just speaking Mexican Spanish and would really have a mountain to climb to speak what you are trying to learn for use in South America.

No worries, I get free daily Spanish lessons! :light:

Bajafun777 - 12-29-2008 at 12:15 PM

OK, I see your "Teacher's Pet,"huh??? She definately looks to be a keeper for you :tumble:

!! I am sure you have all the encouragement in the world to learn it first, second, and whatever in getting on the same wave length to make the day and nights go sooooooooooooo great!!!! Later Amigo, bajafun777

Woooosh - 12-29-2008 at 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Iflyfish-----------

you said above, "----This of course is also true in the USofA where the upper classes and professionals have a jargon of their own that separates them from the “masses------”.

To me that is an interesting and curious statement--------I have never encountered that, tho I have had ample opportunity, I believe.

Barry

With the dumbing-down of America over the past few decades- the art of language has reverted to lowest-common-denominator slang-fest. It is very rare these days I have to check a thesaurus.

I remember being in Memphis when they adopted Ebonics in the 99% black public school system out of last reesort. There were so many illiterate young people graduating from high school that they figured Ebonics was better than nothing. Don't axe me why. How sad for the english language and our future. They are going to need to Obama-up if they are going to compete and contribute in the world- not suck from it.

The internet and text messaging hasn't helped language either. It's ok to use abbreviations and type sloppy in e-mails and not go back to correct errors- the point is communication, not perfection. Sadly many young people think the text version is the corrrect version now.

I have a Danish property manager stateside who always mispells in business e-mails to clients. It drives me nuts. Not because she hasn't learned proper english- but because I am afraid clients will think she is stupid, not foreign.

Woooosh - 12-29-2008 at 04:16 PM

Quote:

Would your wintering in Baja qualify you as an elite- or would it have to be West Palm (before the Madoff thing of course)?

[Edited on 12-29-2008 by Woooosh]

Oso - 12-29-2008 at 04:18 PM

Ifly dahling, it's "gauche" (Frog for left,i.e., left-handed, clumsy) not "gosh".

Barry A. - 12-29-2008 at 04:39 PM

Oso-------------tip---------------

plug in "hot for words" in your brouser-------I think you will enjoy the "sight" if you are not familiar with it already.

You gotta love MARINA!!! Yes-------

Iflyfish - 12-29-2008 at 05:13 PM

Barry

That site is quintessential to those of us who appreciate the assets of good language. Now I believe it is rubish to believe that the flowering of our language was in Elizabethan England.

Iflyfishwhennotactinggauche

Barry A. - 12-29-2008 at 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
Barry

That site is quintessential to those of us who appreciate the assets of good language. Now I believe it is rubish to believe that the flowering of our language was in Elizabethan England.

Iflyfishwhennotactinggauche

"rubish"????? :lol:

No comment!!! :bounce:

Barry

Well, just maybe ?

MrBillM - 12-29-2008 at 05:26 PM

Instead of a "typo", perhaps he was trying to say it was something a RUBE believes. Rubish ? COULD BE ?

Well, maybe not.

Iflyfish - 12-29-2008 at 05:33 PM

Rubish

That which can be rubbed.

Iflyfishwhennotmakingtrypos

Oso - 12-29-2008 at 05:41 PM

Life is already too flocking complicated for me.

Barry A. - 12-29-2008 at 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
Rubish

That which can be rubbed.

Iflyfishwhennotmakingtrypos

Makes sense----you were probably thinking about MARINA.

:yes:

Barry

Ken Cooke - 12-29-2008 at 07:50 PM

In the right company, my Ebonics is pretty good! I speak it with some of my friends for laughs, and we learn new words from the Rap songs coming out. Thats the beauty of language, it is constantly evolving - and that's not always a bad thing. :light:

Barry A. - 12-29-2008 at 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
In the right company, my Ebonics is pretty good! I speak it with some of my friends for laughs, and we learn new words from the Rap songs coming out. Thats the beauty of language, it is constantly evolving - and that's not always a bad thing. :light:

"Language" is for communication--------------"constantly evolving language" hinders communication, and we sure don't need that these days.

Barry

postholedigger - 12-30-2008 at 07:08 AM

"in the right company" is the key phrase. I enjoy ebonics, mexi-speak, and flied lice but as Jackie Chan found out in Rush Hour, it's gotta be in the right company. Wasap my niiga?