BajaNomad

No vehicles on the beaches

viabaja - 1-26-2009 at 11:51 AM

What is everyone's thoughts on the various notices being put on the beaches around San Felipe on "No vehicles on the beaches"? Gee, I wonder about all the panga fishermen who tow their boats thru the beach onto the water to make a living, or accessing our remote beaches with our quads for fishing!!!

This ought to be a lively discussion!

DENNIS - 1-26-2009 at 12:21 PM

I'm not familiar with beach activities over there but, is there a problem with tourists etc, tearing up the beaches with their ATVs, bikes and other toys? I would think that MrBill would have shot all of 'em by now.

Signs in place

Sharksbaja - 1-26-2009 at 01:09 PM



MB_ComLo.jpg - 8kB

BigWooo - 1-26-2009 at 01:11 PM

With a few exceptions, it's illegal to drive a vehicle in the federal zone (Beaches). It's just not enforced everywhere. As areas become more populated it seems the enforcement increases.

It is possible for the fishermen to get a concession to launch their boats legally.

dtbushpilot - 1-26-2009 at 02:28 PM

It is illegal to drive on the beach in the East Cape but every day I see dozens of people doing it, mostly on ATV's but some cars and trucks too. Riding my ATV down the beach with my fishing pole is one of my true pleasures in Baja so I continue to do it. There is a Profepa beach patrol in the area. He seems to be a nice guy and has caught me several times. I'm not sure how many times he will tell me not to ride on the beach before some punishment is dished out. I've heard of people getting tickets and the threat of vehicle confiscation but don't know anybody that has actually suffered either fate. There are also ATV mounted police (with uniforms and guns) that patrol the beaches but their duties must not be enforcing the ATV ban. We have passed each other on the beach many times with never more than a wave.

The issue is the turtles. You can run over the nests which may or may not break the eggs but certainly can't help them. I think the bigger issue is the ruts that the baby turtles can't climb over. They end up following the rut instead of getting to the water.

When I ride on the beach I always try to ride in the "tide effected" zone. I ride slowly and give a wide berth to people on the beach. When I'm near houses I slow down and try to be as quiet as I can (nobody seems to consider that approach in front of my house). Does that make it okay? It does for me.....it won't for others. We all have to decide for ourselves what our boundaries are and what price we are willing to pay for our actions........I hope this thread doesn't go political.......dt

wilderone - 1-26-2009 at 02:42 PM

"Does that make it okay?" No.
"We all have to decide for ourselves what our boundaries are" - well, my boundary is pretty much trashed when you drive by my serene spot on the beach leaving a blue wake of exhaust or I have to get out of your way while walking along the shore so you can drive by.

LB - 1-26-2009 at 02:57 PM

Here in Los Barriles and Buena Vista it has gotten pretty bad. Try sitting on
your tranquil patio with the roaring of the ATVs going by all day. Seems to
defeat the purpose of being in peaceful Baja! Not to mention the turtles,
which I understand are a type to Baja Sur and are not going to exist one
day if we all don't stand up and do the right thing. Not to mention the law,
where do you want our police force? Protecting us, solving and preventing
more serious crimes, patroling our homes ... Or on the beach chasing down ATV riders. Homeowners need to educate their quests when they loan their ATV or when they rent them. Business's who rent the ATV's need to educate their customers. I have an ATV, but you wont find me on the beach, even if if
I could get away with it. :fire:

David K - 1-26-2009 at 03:12 PM

LB is correct... there is a place for ATV recreation and populated beaches isn't one of them.

So, in front of cities or homes... with police there... why is is still happening?

The local police can't cite violations of federal law. The federal police only patrol the highways. The military only enforce the drug and gun laws.

Seems the local beach residents need to hire a private law force... or at least post signs... in Spanish, too.

dtbushpilot - 1-26-2009 at 03:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wilderone
"Does that make it okay?" No.
"We all have to decide for ourselves what our boundaries are" - well, my boundary is pretty much trashed when you drive by my serene spot on the beach leaving a blue wake of exhaust or I have to get out of your way while walking along the shore so you can drive by.


Some people are very inconsiderate, some aren't. Those of us who are usually have to pay the price for those who aren't.

I can assure you that you or anyone else for that matter have never had to get out of my way or breathe a cloud of smoke from my ATV. I don't appreciate that type of behavior any more than you do but I try not to paint everyone with the same brush.....dt

vandenberg - 1-26-2009 at 03:18 PM

I believe "any" ATV has "any" business being on "any" beach, populated or not.

DENNIS - 1-26-2009 at 03:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vandenberg
I believe "any" ATV has "any" business being on "any" beach, populated or not.


That's exactly the way I feel about jet-skis.
Forgive the hi-jacking but, that's how I feel.

vandenberg - 1-26-2009 at 03:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS


That's exactly the way I feel about jet-skis.
Forgive the hi-jacking but, that's how I feel.


Very few jet skis on the beach though.:P:P

DENNIS - 1-26-2009 at 03:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vandenberg

Very few jet skis on the beach though.:P:P


I hadn't thought of it quite like that but, you're right.:bounce:

David K - 1-26-2009 at 03:36 PM

If an ATV is moving on the beach, and nobody else is there... does it make a sound?:lol:

How do you know... Why do you care... ??

(on non-turtle laying beaches, naturally);D

dtbushpilot - 1-26-2009 at 03:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by vandenberg
I believe "any" ATV has "any" business being on "any" beach, populated or not.


That's exactly the way I feel about jet-skis.
Forgive the hi-jacking but, that's how I feel.


Me too!

I don't like Jet Skis but I don't begrudge those who do....I hate it when people leave dirty diapers and the rest of their trash on the beach in front of my house but I wouldn't suggest that they keep their babys off the beach. I don't appreciate the heard of cows that walk by my place every evening that crap on the beach and eat my bushes but that's just the way it is, I've learned to accept it. And why is it that I'm the only one, Mexican or Gringo, that picks up after their dog on the beach? They wouldn't get away with that in the States.

I guess the point of my ramble, if there is one is that, like it or not we don't always get our way and things are different in Mexico. I learn to accept things and not let the things that I don't agree with spoil my enjoyment of Baja. I like the fact that my beach isn't like the beaches in the States....

I'm not trying to win an arguement here, heck, even DK is ganging up on me. I know that a lot of you won't agree with me, a few will but probably won't weigh in. So let me close by saying.....I don't care.....

Think I'll go dig some clams....Oh, and sorry for the hijack....dt

Sharksbaja - 1-26-2009 at 03:48 PM

"Think I'll go dig some clams...."


Touche" !!

ATV beaching

tehag - 1-26-2009 at 04:02 PM

I asked a Loreto Municipal cop if he could cite a violator for driving on the beach. He assured me that he could and said that the multa is $5,000 pesos. We were within a hundred yards of probably 10 vehicles parked in the sand as we chatted.

Woooosh - 1-26-2009 at 04:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wilderone
"Does that make it okay?" No.
"We all have to decide for ourselves what our boundaries are" - well, my boundary is pretty much trashed when you drive by my serene spot on the beach leaving a blue wake of exhaust or I have to get out of your way while walking along the shore so you can drive by.


Mexicans seem to pick and choose what laws they follow. The laws they don't like simply don't apply to them, they are for everyone else. That's how Mexico got into this corruption mess in the first place. If you're driving illegally on the beach- you are part of the lawlessness problem. Own it.

This is a huge problem in Baja Norte (Rosarito Beach)- where two tourist were killed by trucks on the beach in recent years. "No unauthorized vehicle" signs (with the appropraite fines) are posted at every beach entrance. I have never seen a lifeguard or ranger who didn't stop an unauthorized vehicle and tell them to get off the beach.

I saw a man training his young son how to ride the new motorized dirt bike he got for Christams on a busy sunday afteroon (it even had training wheels! ). You think that boy is going to grow up thinking all laws apply to him? He was going fast and getting within five feet of people and he doesn't even know how to drive it! The father thought is was all just great- he was so proud.

If someone on a quad is speeding by me and gets close enough for me to throw a little beach sand up in the air so it hits their face- I do. If they get close enough to me for me to swing a dog leash, I do. No one getting within arms reach of me on a motor vehcle when I'm walking the beach deserves any respect. I didn't move here for me or my dogs to get run down by some lawbreaking idiot on a quad who thinks he is above the law. They suck.

They have no right to be on the FMZ with a truck/quad or whatever on a busy sunday afternoon when the beach is packed. Idiots. I have a dirt bike and I find places to ride without ever going on the beach- they can too.

Now I do see surfers towing their trailered seadoos on the beach early mornings. But I have never seen one drive fast or threaten people by driving too fast and out of control. Even still- I hold my dogs by the collar as they pass and give them a hard look they certainly understand. This ain't the north shore of hawaii- paddle out in the surf you lazy marooons.

Obviously- this touches a nerve with me. :P

akshadow - 1-26-2009 at 04:14 PM

The San Felipe web site has a pod cast, url below, podcast 20 at the end includes a discussion with the mayor? some official in San Felipe in which the beach use is described. Might be of interest for those in San Felipe, I am sure each enforcement area will be different

http://katskornerpodcast.com/

Kat's Podcast 20 Featuring: JUNE SNOW and Hazael Sierra

CortezBlue - 1-26-2009 at 04:21 PM

I have a casa north of San Felipe near Pete's Camp and I havent seen any signs, yet. Is this mainly near town where the signs are going up?

Barry A. - 1-26-2009 at 05:16 PM

If I could not drive on the beach in Baja, about 90% of the places I have always camped I could not get too.

Bummer.
:no:
Barry

Woooosh - 1-26-2009 at 05:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CortezBlue
I have a casa north of San Felipe near Pete's Camp and I havent seen any signs, yet. Is this mainly near town where the signs are going up?


I still hope there are still remote places where you can play with your power toys. A crowed downtown city beach isn't it though. My comments were solely about downtown Rosarito Beach in the tourist zone.

David K - 1-26-2009 at 05:28 PM

Barry, the beaches that I bet you camp on (with no other access) have no other people on it either... ?

I think the message and anger is at the inconsiderate who zip up and down the beach infront of or among other people. Laws that are for safety of others is well in order... Too bad common sense is so lacking about driving on Rosarito's beach or other populated beaches... that a 'law' is even needed.

Bajahowodd - 1-26-2009 at 05:49 PM

Still scratching my head over Vandenberg's comment....

David K - 1-26-2009 at 05:53 PM

I think he forgot the 'don't' ?? Or the 'do'???

Udo - 1-26-2009 at 06:12 PM

I have not been to San Felipe in about four years, but going back about 40 years, I have seen many signs about no motorized vehicle allowed on the beach. But the signs were ignored by ATV's and 4X4's.
As a matter of fact, there are several 4X4's that sell COCO LOCOS, MARGARITAS, and other alcoholic concoctions from the back of their vehicles.
I couldn't wait for them to show up. If not, a trip to Ruben's camp was in order.

Denise Turds

MrBillM - 1-26-2009 at 06:18 PM

I'm a little surprised to find myself mentioned by Denise in this thread, BUT to make things perfectly clear, I really don't give a crap one way or the other as long as my driving on the beach (in my Samurais) isn't impacted. Certainly, nobody need worry about being shot. Denise must have been going through the monthly curse and was a little cranky.

Just after seeing all of those signs posted, I happened to be on the beach sitting in one of my Suzukis, smoking a cigar and reading a book while my wife was playing with the dogs. Looked up to see the Army coming my way on patrol. As they drove by, I waved, they waved back and went on their way.

[Edited on 1-27-2009 by MrBillM]

Surprising findings about riding ATVs on the beach.

Packoderm - 1-26-2009 at 06:24 PM

Apparently, by virtue of having four tires each with a big footprint, ATVs are not as harmful to beach life than had been previously thought. By the weight of the ATV and rider being evenly distributed among four, big footprint tires, the impaction of the sand is minimized thus lowering damage done to sea turtle eggs and other subterranean life such as sand crabs. Astonishingly, it is when a person puts his or her weight down on one foot while walking on the beach that much damage is done. Therefore, if a person wishes to wade in the sea, he or she should either limit their range to rocky areas, or drive the ATV on the sand to the waterline, lower themselves on an inflatable mattress or raft placed in the water, then paddle out to where they will cause no harm because they will not be pushing the balls of their feet into the sand such as what occurs while walking.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=28443#pid2802...

mtgoat666 - 1-26-2009 at 06:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Packoderm
Apparently, by virtue of having four tires each with a big footprint, ATVs are not as harmful to beach life than had been previously thought. By the weight of the ATV and rider being evenly distributed among four, big footprint tires, the impaction of the sand is minimized thus lowering damage done to sea turtle eggs and other subterranean life such as sand crabs. Astonishingly, it is when a person puts his or her weight down on one foot while walking on the beach that much damage is done. Therefore, if a person wishes to wade in the sea, he or she should either limit their range to rocky areas, or drive the ATV on the sand to the waterline, lower themselves on an inflatable mattress or raft placed in the water, then paddle out to where they will cause no harm because they will not be pushing the balls of their feet into the sand such as what occurs while walking.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=28443#pid2802...


The problem is fat people walking or riding ATVs :lol::lol::lol:
Us skinny people can do what we want without hurting nature's creatures.
Also, us skinny people are less inclined to illegally gobble up the turtles and clams :lol::lol: And we have a smaller carbon footprint :lol:

Seriously, nothing spoils a nice walk more than an ATV or motorcycle. Nothing spoils a nice quiet day on the beach more than a jet ski.

Peace out!

Sharksbaja - 1-26-2009 at 06:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by Packoderm
Apparently, by virtue of having four tires each with a big footprint, ATVs are not as harmful to beach life than had been previously thought. By the weight of the ATV and rider being evenly distributed among four, big footprint tires, the impaction of the sand is minimized thus lowering damage done to sea turtle eggs and other subterranean life such as sand crabs. Astonishingly, it is when a person puts his or her weight down on one foot while walking on the beach that much damage is done. Therefore, if a person wishes to wade in the sea, he or she should either limit their range to rocky areas, or drive the ATV on the sand to the waterline, lower themselves on an inflatable mattress or raft placed in the water, then paddle out to where they will cause no harm because they will not be pushing the balls of their feet into the sand such as what occurs while walking.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=28443#pid2802...


The problem is fat people walking or riding ATVs :lol::lol::lol:
Us skinny people can do what we want without hurting nature's creatures.
Also, us skinny people are less inclined to illegally gobble up the turtles and clams :lol::lol: And we have a smaller carbon footprint :lol:

Seriously, nothing spoils a nice walk more than an ATV or motorcycle. Nothing spoils a nice quiet day on the beach more than a jet ski.

Peace out!


Whew! I thought you were gonna say"Nothing spoils a nice quiet day on the beach more than a fat broad in a bikini:lol:.

dtbushpilot - 1-26-2009 at 06:47 PM

And nothing would spoil my ATV fishing trip more than someone attacking me with a dog leash or hand full of sand......didn't we all learn in kindergarten that it's not okay to hit?....dt

CaboRon - 1-26-2009 at 07:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigWooo
With a few exceptions, it's illegal to drive a vehicle in the federal zone (Beaches). It's just not enforced everywhere. As areas become more populated it seems the enforcement increases.

It is possible for the fishermen to get a concession to launch their boats legally.


I believe that it is part of the license given to the Panga Associations .

Here iin Todos Santos they seldom have to drive onto the beach as the pangas stay there overnight. And there is convienent parking.

These brave men are in one of the two associations here.

This is a landing on a calm day. It can be quite dangerous with more of a swell.







CaboRon

stanburn - 1-26-2009 at 07:08 PM

I guess I don't see the problem. A sign, obey the sign. Do others obey the sign? Obey the sign. What part of the sign did you not understand?

CaboRon - 1-26-2009 at 07:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by stanburn
I guess I don't see the problem. A sign, obey the sign. Do others obey the sign? Obey the sign. What part of the sign did you not understand?


They refuse to read the sign ...

There are those who left the states because they could not tolerate civilized society ....

They don't take responsibility for their animals ....

They don't pick up dog doo-doo ...

They smoke cigars in restaurants .

I sometimes think that all the smokers that left California just came south ....

So, they come south and act like burros ...

Just my humble opinion,

CaboRon

Phil S - 1-26-2009 at 08:02 PM

They don't always "go south". I remember a Southern California family that sold out, and moved to Douglas County Oregon. Bought a large lot with big home on the river, and proceeded to buy their two boys, trail bikes. They learned to ride them ON THEIR LOT, right in the middle of a subdivision. Day light to dark, for years!!!!!!!!!!We could hear them, and we were "up the river" about half a mile. So much for peace & quiet on the river.!!!!!!!!!When neighbors complained, he had a very bad "attitude" about it. My brothers home was two lots west of this property.

[Edited on 1-27-2009 by Phil S]

comitan - 1-26-2009 at 08:39 PM

I'm just wondering is shell beach really off limits to vehicles, or is it exempt to certain Nomads:fire::fire::fire:

Don Alley - 1-26-2009 at 09:27 PM

We have new signs on all Loreto area beaches. "Protected Zone." No driving, no throwing trash. They have police patrols driving it but they haven't stopped the people I've seen driving by them.

A couple of days ago we were walking a beach with our dog. An official-looking pompous ass came out from the site where a mega-developer is tearing up the place with heavy equipment, big cranes, etc, and tells us he's called the authorities on us for having a dog in the protected zone, and we had to leave immediately.

Yep, that's the new Baja, can't walk your dog in the federal zone but you can build a 3000 unit development next to it. :rolleyes:

Steve&Debby - 1-26-2009 at 09:31 PM

HUMMMMM,

Sign,sign everywhere a sign ,cloggin up the scenery breaken my mind,Do this don't do that CAN'T YOU READ THE SIGN:!::!::!::biggrin::biggrin:

I was told a long time ago in San Flippy that it was illeagle to ride on the beach in town only!!! I was told it was OK to ride on the beach out of town.

We take our Jeep on the beach all the time, but it has very big tires on it . We are always respectfull of people on the beach and do not drive fast around them or close to them,That is just common courtesy.Being able to drive down the beach with a icechest full of cervasas and some snacks is one of the things we enjoy most about Baja.

fandango - 1-26-2009 at 10:05 PM

some birds lay their eggs right on the sand at isolated beaches. the eggs look like small rocks. looks like the chicks look like a shell or rock as well. did this one survive the vehicles on the beach?


[img]http://[/img]

Woooosh - 1-26-2009 at 11:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve&;Debby
HUMMMMM,

Sign,sign everywhere a sign ,cloggin up the scenery breaken my mind,Do this don't do that CAN'T YOU READ THE SIGN:!::!::!::biggrin::biggrin:

I was told a long time ago in San Flippy that it was illeagle to ride on the beach in town only!!! I was told it was OK to ride on the beach out of town.

We take our Jeep on the beach all the time, but it has very big tires on it . We are always respectfull of people on the beach and do not drive fast around them or close to them,That is just common courtesy.Being able to drive down the beach with a icechest full of cervasas and some snacks is one of the things we enjoy most about Baja.


...and You ain't supposed to be hereeee... sign says you gotta have a membership card to get inside.

020507-dump 002a.JPG - 47kB

David K - 1-27-2009 at 11:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by fandango
some birds lay their eggs right on the sand at isolated beaches. the eggs look like small rocks. looks like the chicks look like a shell or rock as well. did this one survive the vehicles on the beach?


[img]http://[/img]


Yes, it did...

Like my photo... ? The close up is in this year's Baja Calendar (December)... and you all can enjoy it because we got to our campsite there by the only way, on the beach... a beach not in any town or with any people... like most in Baja.

The photos of that trip are at http://vivabaja.com/508 (May, 2008).




[Edited on 1-27-2009 by David K]

viabaja - 1-27-2009 at 04:28 PM

Good comments! DavidK has some good photos. Drive only in the tide zone and avoid the dunes & high beach. Go around people slowly. Put the mufflers back in the exhausts ,etc. Common sense & courtesy which alot of people LACK - on both sides of the border, has given ATV's a bad rap. They are useful tools (mine are the utility type) that make Baja enjoyable and fishing available. Without a boat (still have to cross the beach to launch), it's near impossible to fish 3 to 4 miles of remote beach without a Jeep or quad to carry one's gear. When and if they start really enforcing that rule of no driving and others in the federal zone which has been on the books for years, it will be time to say hasta la vista!

David K - 1-27-2009 at 05:04 PM

10-4 viabaja... kind of hard to carry your fishing tackel and the fish you caught from the fishing spot back 4 miles to camp... by hand and foot!:lol:

Laws aren't made for your convenience ...

Dave - 1-27-2009 at 05:32 PM

Or to be followed only when someone's looking
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
10-4 viabaja... kind of hard to carry your fishing tackel and the fish you caught from the fishing spot back 4 miles to camp... by hand and foot!:lol:


If not driving on the beach means it becomes impossible to fish or camp remote places... then you don't.

Sharksbaja - 1-27-2009 at 05:59 PM

Dave the spoiler!:lol: Look we've rehashed this a number of times.



Be a prudent guest and if you can't get the hell out.

David K - 1-27-2009 at 06:03 PM

Then we have little or no reason to go to Baja!

It is the remote beach camping that has us going as much as we do, because it is unique to Baja and we have no equivelent here. The great outdoor life is what draws me to Baja... and most I hope (fishing, camping, off roading, hiking...)

Baja offers different things to different people... seems a few here go to Baja to live cheaper or stay out of the grips of Uncle Sam... for others it is the simpler life with less restrictions on personal freedom. A few go to a place they love because it is different, then try to impose their beliefs on everyone else after they move there...???!

I am sure the people of Baja enjoy the income provided by campers traveling south... as well.

What's next, a ban on off road racing??? Do you know the financial impact that would have on an already hurting economy?

The purpose of laws should be to protect people from harm... Driving on city beaches... crowded places... could harm someone... Driving on deserted beaches to get to a camping spot (not running up and down it to make noise or tear it up), hurts no one.

My inner soul has a connection to Baja... or Old California, as it really is... Baja was California FIRST... and I feel 'right' when I am in Baja... on the beach, on the Camino Real, in a palm canyon, exploring mission ruins and Indian rock art sites. I got a vehicle that can take me to all those places. I am not tied to paved or graded roads...

I have camped on Shell Island since 1978... If someone reads my posts or sees my photos, I share here and doesn't like it, all I can say is find some happiness of your own instead of trying to steal mine.

comitan - 1-27-2009 at 06:27 PM

:saint::saint::saint:

David K - 1-27-2009 at 06:31 PM

Thank you comitan... :biggrin:

dtbushpilot - 1-27-2009 at 06:37 PM

It really is simple. If you have an issue with driving on the beach, don't do it. No one will chastize you for not doing it.....dt

It's all about the A**Hole Factor

ArroyoTaxi - 1-27-2009 at 08:38 PM

There are people who respectfully scoot down to the water and drop off their boats. There are people who race up and down the beach every morning and wake us all up. Just like there are people who walk their dogs and scoop up the poo and people who kick sand over the poo every day. Baja is just like everywhere else. There are really awesome people and really gross people. There are people who respect their neighbors, there are people who light up cigarettes at the taco stand and blow billows of smoke while our children are eating at the next table. There are people who check on their neighbor's homes, there are people who leave their cars idleing in front of outdoor restaurants. We choose to hang with the awesome people. It is the same everywhere. The ATV situation is so clear - the A**holes are inconsiderate and pollute the beach with fumes and noise and most people can't stand them. The considerate ATV people fly under everyone's radar because if they want to scream around, they go up the arroyo. It's really that simple.

Sharksbaja - 1-27-2009 at 08:51 PM

Quote:

if they want to scream around, they go up the arroyo.


Like an ArroyoTaxi?:spingrin:

Woooosh - 1-27-2009 at 09:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Then we have little or no reason to go to Baja!

It is the remote beach camping that has us going as much as we do, because it is unique to Baja and we have no equivelent here. The great outdoor life is what draws me to Baja... and most I hope (fishing, camping, off roading, hiking...)

Baja offers different things to different people... seems a few here go to Baja to live cheaper or stay out of the grips of Uncle Sam... for others it is the simpler life with less restrictions on personal freedom. A few go to a place they love because it is different, then try to impose their beliefs on everyone else after they move there...???!

I am sure the people of Baja enjoy the income provided by campers traveling south... as well.

What's next, a ban on off road racing??? Do you know the financial impact that would have on an already hurting economy?

The purpose of laws should be to protect people from harm... Driving on city beaches... crowded places... could harm someone... Driving on deserted beaches to get to a camping spot (not running up and down it to make noise or tear it up), hurts no one.

My inner soul has a connection to Baja... or Old California, as it really is... Baja was California FIRST... and I feel 'right' when I am in Baja... on the beach, on the Camino Real, in a palm canyon, exploring mission ruins and Indian rock art sites. I got a vehicle that can take me to all those places. I am not tied to paved or graded roads...

I have camped on Shell Island since 1978... If someone reads my posts or sees my photos, I share here and doesn't like it, all I can say is find some happiness of your own instead of trying to steal mine.


Good on you Dave- as they say downunder! Nice post. :cool:

longlegsinlapaz - 1-27-2009 at 09:44 PM

It never ceases to amaze me how some justify their actions because things are different in Mexico, or because locals ignore the laws of their own country, or too far to hike, too much to carry, or (insert personal justification here)!

Virtually everyone who posted here acknowledged knowing it's illegal to drive on Mexican beaches; some in their egotistical self-interest have attempted to question why the laws were REALLY written, what they REALLY mean, how they're REALLY meant to be applied, assume because the laws aren't always strictly enforced that they don't really apply to THEM! The arrogance of second-guessing what/where/who/why a foreign (to most of us) country's law REALLY exists reflects a total lack of respect for the law & the country. Even those who acknowledge turtles nest on these beaches, bird lay eggs & hatch on these sands...out of one side of their mouth, then justify why it's okay for them to break the law, because their somehow exempt or special or that they simply don't give a damn about the law, nor the species they may be written to protect, the logic behind the law...out of the other side of their mouth!:no:

Most beach drivers who posted appear to condone breaking Mexican laws. Their posts come across as though they feel they're above the law, they're somehow exempt, the mentality of encouraging others to violate laws under the guise that if locals don't honor the law, then gringos can't or won't be held accountable is the height of arrogance to me.

As guests in Mexico, we have no right to challenge the laws, nor pick & choose those we're willing to comply with, based on our personal convenience. The prevalent mentality that it's Mexico & things are different in Mexico, so we can do whatever we damn well please & the hell with the laws, environment, other peoples rights, wildlife (be they endangered species or not).

What part of IT'S THE LAW, applicable to ALL, regardless of how evenly it's enforced is it so hard for many to grasp? Or is it simply self-serving arrogance? <<rhetorical question, since I've already read the personal "justifications"!

dtbushpilot - 1-27-2009 at 10:22 PM

I'm well aware that riding my ATV on the beach is illegal. I try to be considerate as possible of others while I enjoy my life in Baja. If I am punished for my crime I will accept my punishment, pay my fine, not complain or expect any sympathy....just like when I get a speeding ticket here in the USA....dt

Paula - 1-27-2009 at 10:24 PM

Originally posted by soulpatch
Quote:
Hey Longlegs,
I think most on here would agree that we are guests in Mexico and that we are not above Mexico's people. However, it seems like most Mexicans have disregard for many of their laws and who are we to be superior to them?




A giant soft pretzel goes to soulpatch, winner of the twisted logic award:lol:

edit: to take myself out of the box

[Edited on 1-28-2009 by Paula]

Packoderm - 1-27-2009 at 11:14 PM

Isn't it illegal to take clams or even shells from the shoreline in Mexico? Wouldn't it be considered a blatant disregard of our own upstanding if any of us gringos were to go clamming? Would it be right to punish an FM3 holding gringo who owns a vacation or retirement home with a fine in excess of hundreds of U.S. dollars for clamming or allowing a grand daughter to collect shells? I would venture to guess that clamming would be more disruptive to the shore's ecosystem than cruising along on the wet sand on a quad. I bet that the ATV ban would have never even come to be if the vacation homes didn't get built along the shorelines. Yet on this site I read about these same people who own the homes going out clamming. If you want us to swear off riding on the beach, wouldn't you need to buy your clams and shells from an authorized retailer?

Bajahowodd - 1-28-2009 at 12:03 AM

Longlegs has it exactly right. There is a pervasive feeling that because we are in Mexico, laws are not as official as at home. Frankly, I think it's a sort of soft bigotry. We are guests. We ought to respect the laws, regardless of whether there are Mexicans who break the law. Just like at home. Just because someone is speeding, doesn't justify everyone to speed.

[Edited on 1-28-2009 by Bajahowodd]

Sharksbaja - 1-28-2009 at 01:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Packoderm
Isn't it illegal to take clams or even shells from the shoreline in Mexico? Wouldn't it be considered a blatant disregard of our own upstanding if any of us gringos were to go clamming? Would it be right to punish an FM3 holding gringo who owns a vacation or retirement home with a fine in excess of hundreds of U.S. dollars for clamming or allowing a grand daughter to collect shells? I would venture to guess that clamming would be more disruptive to the shore's ecosystem than cruising along on the wet sand on a quad. I bet that the ATV ban would have never even come to be if the vacation homes didn't get built along the shorelines. Yet on this site I read about these same people who own the homes going out clamming. If you want us to swear off riding on the beach, wouldn't you need to buy your clams and shells from an authorized retailer?


Let me tell you something. The arrogance has gotten worse. These people who brag about their misdeeds are a new breed. I don't remember backslapping ever being so common regarding their blatant touting.

They would be in a worldofchit if they behaved the same way in their northern neighborhoods.

Why broadcast your pompousness anyway? I guess it makes the head swell even more.

Arrogance=P-ince imho

Packoderm - 1-28-2009 at 05:27 AM

Please explain how my comparison of poaching clams to riding ATVs on the beach is arrogant. It's just a small thing I ask, but how is comparing poaching clams to riding ATVs on the beach possibly seen as arrogant? I don't see how it is so. In the U.S.A. people who poach wildlife would be in much more in a worldofchit than riding off road vehicles where they're not supposed to. Anyway, I'm an environmentalist and would be in favor of a plan to guard against damage to the coastline if done in a fair and sensible manner, but if some want to ban ATVs due to the noise and nuisance factor, I wish they would just be honest and state so. I don't see how trucks loading pangas cause less damage than cruising along the wet part of the beach on a quad - which I have never confessed to doing. It's like how a while back they tried to close down a topless bar because it didn't have handicapped access for dancers to get on stage. They weren't concerned about any possible dancers in wheelchairs - they just didn't want girls dancing naked. I sense the same sort of thing going on here. Anyway, when they build the mega resorts, all concern for the environment will be out the window.

4baja - 1-28-2009 at 07:32 AM

think ill drive my quad down the beach and get some clams to eat, man that sounds good!

2004 xmas 011.jpg - 34kB

gnukid - 1-28-2009 at 07:59 AM

Two words: Air Pressure.

shari - 1-28-2009 at 08:29 AM

THINGS ARE DIFFERENT in mexico....duh...it is NOT black and white...one of the zillions of interesting cultural differences is how laws are applied. I kinda like the notion that yes, there are laws for lots of things but they are only pulled out and applied when there is a blatant, dangerous, obnoxious breaking of said law. If I sat down and counted just how many laws we and our neighbours break in any given day....well, geez, the mexican prisons would be overflowing and the coffers of our town would be full too with all the fines that COULD be levied. (driving with an open beer, not coming to a full stop at stopsigns, driving on a beach(where we dont see or meet a single soul), driving with a tail light out, arguing in public...blah blah weedy weedy...

As others have mentioned...it is the arrogant pricks with no conciousness who disregard public safety and reasonable behavior who screw things up for all. I happen to know dstbushpilot is an incredibly responsible, quiet, conciencious(sp) person so even though I personally do not like ATV's...I would not mind seeing him on the beach and KNOW he will act in a non offensive manner....so that's cool.

But the truth is, the policia pretty much leave people alone until they get out of hand and then they rely on the letter of the law to punish them....seems pretty reasonable to me. It's kinda nice not living in a facist state.

gnukid - 1-28-2009 at 08:37 AM

Sort of on subject: Do 35" tires work better than 32" in the sand or can I run proper air pressure and win a race with smaller tires like 32" over a 35"s-all other things being equal-engine, tranny, differential? Thnx and excellent comments Shari.





[Edited on 1-28-2009 by gnukid]

longlegsinlapaz - 1-28-2009 at 08:55 AM

Packoderm, I had included illegal clamming in my post originally, but excluded it during the final re-write. I didn't read Bajasharks comments to be directed towards clamming, I read it to be directed toward individuals bragging about knowingly engaging in illegal activities; be it clamming, ATV's or personal vehicles on the beach, whatever the particular activity they chose to violate existing laws & brag about. To me, the arrogance comes from their attempt at justifying why it's okay to put themselves above the law. To publicly flaunt acknowledged illegal activities under the guise of individual self-serving logic, to egotistically paint themselves as somehow being exempt because...everyone else does it...it's just Mexico & everyone knows things are different in Mexico...I'm considerate to others while I break the law...it's the attitude that screams arrogance to me.

Gee, ya think there might be reduced charges for someone found guilty of "considerately breaking the law" versus stiffer charges for someone simply found guilty of plain old breaking the law?:no:

Ya think it's Mama Turtle's fault for having genetic encoding telling her where to return to lay her eggs? I suppose it's her own damn fault that her offspring might end up as scrambled eggs on the beach because she didn't have the foresight to distribute a map of her nesting areas to the illegal beach driving public? Forgive her for thinking her offspring would be protected under the law if she created her nest below that sign banning beach driving.:no:

And it MUST be the clams fault for not recognizing they were trustingly going off with a gringo as opposed to a Mexican who does have a legal right to take them. Assuming of course that they aren't first turned into toxic ceveiche (sp) from the oil & gas leeching down through the sand!:no:

I don't understand how it's acceptable to leave our moral compass at the border simply because it's Mexico. But then, it's pretty obvious that some people's moral compass perpetually registers an "I" reading wherever they happen to be, N, S, E or W. :(

viabaja - 1-28-2009 at 09:05 AM

Ahhh - For those who don't like to fish - stay in TJ or Mexicali!

For those who enjoy fishing and the beach - I'll quote 4baja: "think ill drive my quad down the beach and get some clams to eat, man that sounds good!" and I'll add -while I'm drinking a cold cerveza (yes, I'm drinking & driving) and picking up shells!!!! Wait - I forgot - my dogs are also on the beach!! I'm also sharing a cold cerveza with a couple of solders who are patrolling the beach and clamming!! For those who don't quite get this picture - think about it carefully!

Isn't this great!! Mas tarde!

dtbushpilot - 1-28-2009 at 09:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
THINGS ARE DIFFERENT in mexico....duh...it is NOT black and white...one of the zillions of interesting cultural differences is how laws are applied. I kinda like the notion that yes, there are laws for lots of things but they are only pulled out and applied when there is a blatant, dangerous, obnoxious breaking of said law. If I sat down and counted just how many laws we and our neighbours break in any given day....well, geez, the mexican prisons would be overflowing and the coffers of our town would be full too with all the fines that COULD be levied. (driving with an open beer, not coming to a full stop at stopsigns, driving on a beach(where we dont see or meet a single soul), driving with a tail light out, arguing in public...blah blah weedy weedy...

As others have mentioned...it is the arrogant pricks with no conciousness who disregard public safety and reasonable behavior who screw things up for all. I happen to know dstbushpilot is an incredibly responsible, quiet, conciencious(sp) person so even though I personally do not like ATV's...I would not mind seeing him on the beach and KNOW he will act in a non offensive manner....so that's cool.

But the truth is, the policia pretty much leave people alone until they get out of hand and then they rely on the letter of the law to punish them....seems pretty reasonable to me. It's kinda nice not living in a facist state.


Great post Shari, you nailed it. and thank you for the kind words.

For someone to chastize anyone who would bend a rule or chose to break a law while not hurting or offending others screams arrogance to me......"let he who is without sin cast the first stone........dt

eddie - 1-28-2009 at 09:55 AM

I guess it's alright for the turtle group to ride on the beach?









Sea Turtle Hatchling Releases - ASUPMATOMA's Projecto Todos Tortugueros is proud to announce the release of 41 critically endangered Leatherback hatchlings which were released on January 23! There will be Olive Ridley hatchling releases on January 27 & 28 at 5pm in Las Playitas (5km north of La Pastora). We are expecting the next Leatherback nest to hatch January 29 or 30. Please visit our website for updates. Please leave your dogs at home, and park at the bottom of the dunes. We will have an ATV to transport people over the dunes who need assistance. Looking forward to seeing you there. - Francesca, todostortugueros@live.com, www.todostortugueros.org, 044.612.169.4254, Todos Santos

David K - 1-28-2009 at 10:41 AM

gnukid... it's about air pressure, not tire size... Also, a street tire is better than a mud/ snow tire in the sand.... ie. smooth vs. aggressive.

My 13" tires on my 1600cc Subaru 4WD wagon did great in the sand, at 10-15 psi...

On my Tacoma, 15 psi works... except when I had those aggressive 3 ply sidewall Cooper Discoverer STT tires... then it needed to be down to 10 psi to 'float' in the sand.

Even 2WD vehicles can get through deep sand when the pressure is low enough... The local fisherman who drives up and down the beach to check his nets, has an old 2WD truck.

David K - 1-28-2009 at 10:43 AM

Does EVERYONE here obey the 80 KPH Max. speed law in Baja??? Always... even with a straight, level road way out in the country?

Bajahowodd - 1-28-2009 at 10:46 AM

Of course they do. How else does one get from the border to Cabo in two days?:lol:

comitan - 1-28-2009 at 10:48 AM

DK

Just dig,dig, dig. Your posts have said it all we know who you are, and where your coming from. And know you have the right to do what ever suits you.

Paulina - 1-28-2009 at 10:54 AM

This photo was taken before the sailboat monument went in. Notice the handmade sign on the right. Not too many tourists pay it much mind.




On Edit: This photo was taken in Bahia de Los Angeles

[Edited on 28-1-2009 by Paulina]

dtbushpilot - 1-28-2009 at 10:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
DK

Just dig,dig, dig. Your posts have said it all we know who you are, and where your coming from. And know you have the right to do what ever suits you.


Would you apply the same consideration to me too please? Thank you......dt

comitan - 1-28-2009 at 10:57 AM

Sorry dt, I didn't think your shoes were big enough.:lol::lol:

dtbushpilot - 1-28-2009 at 11:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
Sorry dt, I didn't think your shoes were big enough.:lol::lol:


I know....and you're right of course. I may only have a couple hundred posts but I feel like one of the "gang" now. Being attacked by my fellow Nomads has been a new experience for me.....I'm officially one of you now....:lol::lol:...dt

comitan - 1-28-2009 at 11:09 AM

dt

Next time your coming to La Paz u2u me we can have a beer and discuss the old days when everyone rode on the beach.

[Edited on 1-28-2009 by comitan]

mtgoat666 - 1-28-2009 at 11:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
10-4 viabaja... kind of hard to carry your fishing tackel and the fish you caught from the fishing spot back 4 miles to camp... by hand and foot!:lol:


if you can't walk 4 miles to fish, you should stick to wheel chair accessible fishing pier :lol:

i have never had a fresh water fishing trip in the wilderness that was less than 4 miles walking.

walking is good for the cardiovascular system.

Woooosh - 1-28-2009 at 11:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dtbushpilot
Quote:
Originally posted by shari
THINGS ARE DIFFERENT in mexico....duh...it is NOT black and white...one of the zillions of interesting cultural differences is how laws are applied. I kinda like the notion that yes, there are laws for lots of things but they are only pulled out and applied when there is a blatant, dangerous, obnoxious breaking of said law. If I sat down and counted just how many laws we and our neighbours break in any given day....well, geez, the mexican prisons would be overflowing and the coffers of our town would be full too with all the fines that COULD be levied. (driving with an open beer, not coming to a full stop at stopsigns, driving on a beach(where we dont see or meet a single soul), driving with a tail light out, arguing in public...blah blah weedy weedy...

As others have mentioned...it is the arrogant pricks with no conciousness who disregard public safety and reasonable behavior who screw things up for all. I happen to know dstbushpilot is an incredibly responsible, quiet, conciencious(sp) person so even though I personally do not like ATV's...I would not mind seeing him on the beach and KNOW he will act in a non offensive manner....so that's cool.

But the truth is, the policia pretty much leave people alone until they get out of hand and then they rely on the letter of the law to punish them....seems pretty reasonable to me. It's kinda nice not living in a facist state.


Great post Shari, you nailed it. and thank you for the kind words.

For someone to chastize anyone who would bend a rule or chose to break a law while not hurting or offending others screams arrogance to me......"let he who is without sin cast the first stone........dt


and this is how corrupt Mexico got to be corrupt mexico. A little infraction is just a smaller bribe to the cop.

An obese person didn't become fat, diabetes and heart disease overnight- they got it one twinkie at a time. I think Mexico has just had too many twinkies and it's time for a gastric bypass- not liposcution.

Woooosh - 1-28-2009 at 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Does EVERYONE here obey the 80 KPH Max. speed law in Baja??? Always... even with a straight, level road way out in the country?


ohh. I thought it was 80 MPH. lol

Barry A. - 1-28-2009 at 11:56 AM

OK, now I am going to step out on a limb-----

As a retired LE officer I think that "Shari" has it realistically correct in her interpretation. There are countless "laws" on the books (everywhere) that were solely written into law to control the blatant gross "3 %" of violators, not the "97%" of folks that may not be totally in compliance with all laws (which nobody is) but certainly try their best to do what is "right" by normal accepted-by-most interpretations of the law.

LE officers that practice "black and white" interpretations of the law are really not doing the job they were hired to do, and that reason alone is why LE officers are (potentially?) so powerful----they are trained and hired to interpret the law's intent, and act accordingly (contrary to popular belief). That is a huge responsibility, and also why LE Management and the Courts give the LE officer the "benefit of the doubt" when it comes to disaplining LE officers for alledged mis-conduct or misapplication of the law.

When trying to be law abiding citizens the use of good common sense is the rule--------drifting outside the parameters of "good common sense" is where people usually get in trouble with the law. It is a complicated business, law enforcement is, and it was designed to be that way on purpose, at least it is in the USA.

Little in life is truly "black and white" unless the magnitude of the task requires it (like controlling the thousands crossing the Baja CA/USA borders)

Law Enforcement officers (police) in the USA have more "Criminal Law" training than most Lawyers receive in Law School. Law School is mostly about "Civil Law" which is vastly different than "Criminal Law". Criminal law is the form of law that most folks run afoul of in their daily lives, and normally the only law that the Police enforce on the street (or beaches). (caveat----"Sheriff's" enforce both civil and criminal law and are potentially vastly more powerful than "Police") Don't mess with the Sheriff, ever!

Barry

dtbushpilot - 1-28-2009 at 12:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
dt

Next time your coming to La Paz u2u me we can have a beer and discuss the old days when everyone rode on the beach.

[Edited on 1-28-2009 by comitan]


Will do, looking forward to it......dt

Woooosh - 1-28-2009 at 12:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
OK, now I am going to step out on a limb-----

As a retired LE officer I think that "Shari" has it realistically correct in her interpretation. There are countless "laws" on the books (everywhere) that were solely written into law to control the blatant gross "3 %" of violators, not the "97%" of folks that may not be totally in compliance with all laws (which nobody is) but certainly try their best to do what is "right" by normal accepted-by-most interpretations of the law.

LE officers that practice "black and white" interpretations of the law are really not doing the job they were hired to do, and that reason alone is why LE officers are (potentially?) so powerful----they are trained and hired to interpret the law's intent, and act accordingly (contrary to popular belief). That is a huge responsibility, and also why LE Management and the Courts give the LE officer the "benefit of the doubt" when it comes to disaplining LE officers for alledged mis-conduct or misapplication of the law.

When trying to be law abiding citizens the use of good common sense is the rule--------drifting outside the parameters of "good common sense" is where people usually get in trouble with the law. It is a complicated business, law enforcement is, and it was designed to be that way on purpose, at least it is in the USA.

Little in life is truly "black and white" unless the magnitude of the task requires it (like controlling the thousands crossing the Baja CA/USA borders)

Law Enforcement officers (police) in the USA have more "Criminal Law" training than most Lawyers receive in Law School. Law School is mostly about "Civil Law" which is vastly different than "Criminal Law". Criminal law is the form of law that most folks run afoul of in their daily lives, and normally the only law that the Police enforce on the street (or beaches). (caveat----"Sheriff's" enforce both civil and criminal law and are potentially vastly more powerful than "Police") Don't mess with the Sheriff, ever!

Barry


Barry- enjoyed the candid post.

Only problem I have with it is the premise that "common sense" still exists these days- it did when the laws were written and authorities were given wide discretion in application. When the laws were written most people did have some- I'm not so sure it still exists these days- even among a lot of law enforcement people. I think the current fear of someone catching their misdeeds on video and posting it on UTube is a stronger deterrent that just "doing the right thing, because it's the right thing to do" - like it was in the old days. JMHO.

Wrong

Dave - 1-28-2009 at 01:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Packoderm
I bet that the ATV ban would have never even come to be if the vacation homes didn't get built along the shorelines.


The ban on all conveyances, not just ATV's, has been in place for decades. Has nothing to do with noise or turtles. The armed forces reserve the beach for defense of the country. Their's are the only vehicles, unless permitted, allowed on the beach.

Far from the reasons behind it, I'll bet most of the vacation homes would not have been built had their owners known the vehicle ban would not be enforced.

I'd be peeed...and was. :mad:

LB - 1-28-2009 at 02:56 PM

Is it really against the law for a gringo to collect shells of the beach. I was
always curious when crossing the border at tecate asked us if we had shells!!
:?:

Illegal Shells

MrBillM - 1-28-2009 at 04:37 PM

That's another Law "on the books", but not enforced to any degree. There when they feel like it, though. I have been asked about shells a couple of times at the border.

Back in my GTE days, other employees would ask me if I could bring them some shells. When I'd come in with a small bucket full, they were dumbfounded because they had seen so few shells on beaches in the U.S.

When one of my neighbors once ventured that he thought it really stupid for others he'd see decorating their patios with Shells and Sand Dollars that they'd painted various colors, I brought down a couple dozen spray cans and started putting colored Shells/Sand Dollars all over the place. There are still a few here and there, but most of them have been blown and buried by the wind. The neighbor is long gone so I gave up the hobby.

Bajahowodd - 1-28-2009 at 04:47 PM

Barry was actually describing the difference between absolutism and relativism.

ckiefer - 1-28-2009 at 05:48 PM

See this link:
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/clearing/agri_prod_inus.xm...

Soil, Sand, Minerals, and Shells
Soil-borne organisms threaten both plants and animals. If you visited a farm or ranch in a foreign country, agricultural specialists may have to examine and disinfect your shoes or clothing. Vehicles must also be cleaned of any soil. No soil or earth of any kind is allowed into the United States without a permit issued in advance by USDA Plant Protection and Quarantine Permit Unit. Pure sand, such as a small container of decorative beach sand, is usually allowed. Always check with the permit unit in advance for details.
Quote:
Originally posted by LB
Is it really against the law for a gringo to collect shells of the beach. I was
always curious when crossing the border at tecate asked us if we had shells!!
:?:

DENNIS - 1-28-2009 at 07:04 PM

This ethics class is getting boring.
Why don't you beach drivers do what you think is right and you Sierra Clubers do the same?????????
This has turned into one of those threads that only give platform to those who want to hear themselves talk.
Nobody listens..............Is this new to you?

4baja - 1-28-2009 at 07:07 PM

viabaja, we must get together and have a beer while rideing our atvs on the beach, i like your style and know your area. i agree with you all the way brother. lets use some common sence here .

2004 xmas 013.jpg - 42kB

gnukid - 1-28-2009 at 07:48 PM

You're talkin' 16-18lbs here eh? Right on!

dtbushpilot - 1-28-2009 at 08:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 4baja
viabaja, we must get together and have a beer while rideing our atvs on the beach, i like your style and know your area. i agree with you all the way brother. lets use some common sence here .


Can I come too?:bounce::bounce::bounce:....dt

Bajafun777 - 1-28-2009 at 10:32 PM

OK, all of us have seen miles and miles of empty beaches just like here in Imperial County we have miles and miles of empty sand dunes. Nature takes care of all the tire marks but trash, tires, glass, plastic are another story. Soooooooooo, we do not have to get upset over someone riding their 4 wheelers (use to be 3 wheeler, jeeps, and even makeshift motorbikes before that) on the beach as long as they do not act like idiots when others are present on the beach putting them at risk or riding them all out at early morning hours, again no need to do that enough empty beach area without any houses or anyone on them. Ahhhhhh, sitting out with a fishing pole and a few cold ones just watching the ocean is just what the doctor ordered but to get to some of those areas let's get real walking with some of our knees that far just ain't going to happen!! "No Hurry No Worry Just Fun":lol::yes::tumble: Later, bajafun777

wilderone - 1-29-2009 at 10:56 AM

Why would you spray-paint a sand dollar?

David K - 1-29-2009 at 12:02 PM

They make beautiful Christmas tree ornaments with paint, glitter, art...

I have seen this often in Baja, not something I have done...

longlegsinlapaz - 1-29-2009 at 02:07 PM

Thereby adding insult to injury by defacing the stolen items!:lol:

David K - 1-29-2009 at 02:10 PM

What I saw was done by Mexicans in Mexico... and sold at curio stores... Have you ever been to San Felipe? I am sure lot's of gringos who now live in Mexico may also practice arts and crafts... such as this... Maybe someone has posted photos of shell art online?

Santiago - 1-29-2009 at 02:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by soulpatch
Look how deep those indents in the sand are from your quad! That is just horrible.....

Quote:
Originally posted by 4baja
viabaja, we must get together and have a beer while rideing our atvs on the beach, i like your style and know your area. i agree with you all the way brother. lets use some common sence here .


I think we both know why 4baja's ruts are deep......heh:cool:

edit for spelling

[Edited on 1-29-2009 by Santiago]

[Edited on 1-29-2009 by Santiago]