BajaNomad

Status of Los Arcos in La Paz?

Kgryfon - 1-27-2009 at 11:16 PM

Anyone know what's going on with the Los Arcos Hotel in LA Paz? I know they went on strike and closed it, but something on their website says to come back in April - does that mean they are re-opening in April, or are they just being optimistic? Thanks!

gnukid - 1-28-2009 at 01:15 AM

There was an article in the paper this week...

http://www.tribunadeloscabos.com.mx/newpage/index.cfm?op=por...

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n1006807.htm

Baja&Back - 1-28-2009 at 07:27 AM

The strikers were entrenched in front of the hotel with tables & marquee tents the other day.

gnukid - 1-28-2009 at 07:57 AM

Basically, the owner says there is no agreement yet with the workers. The "crisis" has caused a division between what is reasonable and what the workers would like so there is nothing the owner can do but wait for the workers to come to an agreement which would lower their bonuses. There are signs of discussion with hope for an agreement, though it will remain to be seen whether they make an "acuerdo" or not and whether the agreement serves to satisfy them over the changing crisis which is just now hitting Baja's economy. Suddenly everyone is talking about a lack of work and less expenditures though I see plenty of people out and about and building still just the big projects have slowed to a crawl or stopped. Good restaurants and hotels are still full and some are expanding.

fdt - 1-29-2009 at 06:44 AM

Alberto Coppola announced they will be closing Los Arcos permanently as no agreement was reached with the striking employees. On friday employees will start to collect theire final check.
It's sad to see that this icon of the city is closing for good.

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n1025002.htm

BajaDove - 1-29-2009 at 07:21 AM

If they decide to sell it I hope they new owner doesn't turn it into condos

CaboRon - 1-29-2009 at 09:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaDove
If they decide to sell it I hope they new owner doesn't turn it into condos


It would really be ugly to have the time share hustlers on the Malecon of La Paz ...

CaboRon

Diver - 1-29-2009 at 09:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by fdt
Alberto Coppola announced they will be closing Los Arcos permanently as no agreement was reached with the striking employees. On friday employees will start to collect theire final check.
It's sad to see that this icon of the city is closing for good.

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n1025002.htm


Perhaps they will close the business, pay the employees their final checks and then re-open under a new name or ownership ?
I've seen this done when employee demands become unreasonable.
Maybe they'll even remodel before re-opening ? :light:

fdt - 1-29-2009 at 10:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Diver
Perhaps they will close the business, pay the employees their final checks and then re-open under a new name or ownership ?
I've seen this done when employee demands become unreasonable.
Maybe they'll even remodel before re-opening ? :light:

Could be, and it could still be the same owner, same name just a diferent corporate name.

elgatoloco - 1-29-2009 at 10:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by fdt
Quote:
Originally posted by Diver
Perhaps they will close the business, pay the employees their final checks and then re-open under a new name or ownership ?
I've seen this done when employee demands become unreasonable.
Maybe they'll even remodel before re-opening ? :light:

Could be, and it could still be the same owner, same name just a diferent corporate name.


That's how Dimitri opened Nuevo La Fonda.

LB - 1-29-2009 at 10:42 AM

This is strange, they have ordered new furniture from a local designer and told him they plan to open in March.

Bajahowodd - 1-29-2009 at 11:14 AM

I'm guessing that we'll see more of this type of action. The article mentions the economic crisis. Hotel occupancy rates are down, and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future. Labor is the obvious target in such times. But, is it not better to have a job, even at lower wages, than to have no job?

BMG - 1-29-2009 at 11:24 AM

Apparently Alberto Coppola also owns the Hotel Finisterra in Cabo San Lucas. I wonder how business is there? That might be influencing some of his decisions regard the Los Arcos.

Striking during an economic downturn is not usually the best move. The workers don't have as much bargaining advantage if the business isn't in a profitable cycle and the owners aren't really losing much. I think the workers would be pushing their union for a settlement sooner, rather than later.

fdt - 1-29-2009 at 11:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BMG
Apparently Alberto Coppola also owns the Hotel Finisterra in Cabo San Lucas.

You can check out the senators page here ;
http://www.luiscoppola.com/

Bajahowodd - 1-29-2009 at 11:50 AM

Senator Coppola, a member of Calderone's PAN party introduced legislation in 2007 to remove restrictions on direct ownership of coastal land by foreigners. Didn't fly. Maybe with a sustained economic downturn, it will be reconsidered.

As for BMG's post, I have no doubt that the Finesterra carries much more meaning to Coppola. Recall the original hotel on the hill? When they plopped that eight story building on the beach, they were in the time share business. Hundreds of rooms paid for in advance. Time share occupancy will certainly hold up better than straight hotel occupancy during an economic downturn. And they just spent a bundle upgrading the Marina view rooms of the original hotel. Los Arcos has a special meaning for folks in and around La Paz. But, for coppola, the big fish is down at land's end.

vandenberg - 1-29-2009 at 05:28 PM

Best parts of that establishment are the restaurant and the bar.
Someone buy those and get rid of the rest.
Wouldn't be a big loss.

CaboRon - 1-29-2009 at 07:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BMG
Apparently Alberto Coppola also owns the Hotel Finisterra in Cabo San Lucas. I wonder how business is there? That might be influencing some of his decisions regard the Los Arcos.

Striking during an economic downturn is not usually the best move. The workers don't have as much bargaining advantage if the business isn't in a profitable cycle and the owners aren't really losing much. I think the workers would be pushing their union for a settlement sooner, rather than later.


I have been a union member for many years and I don't believe striking should be anything other than the very last option.

It hurts the workers and the company ...

CaboRon

Bajahowodd - 1-29-2009 at 11:48 PM

Many years ago, I was a card carrying union member, in what was known as a sweetheart union. In other words, the union leaders were in cahoots with the management. We had to pay union dues for the opportunity to work a mandatory 52 hour week. I have to wonder if there isn't some similar situation going on here. I've seen too many instances where labor in Mexico seems to make decisions that seem counter to their own interests

fdt - 1-30-2009 at 08:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
a sweetheart union. In other words, the union leaders were in cahoots with the management.

That is also alive in México, it's called a "Sindicato Blanco". It is one that is started by management or the owners before the workers seek out theire own sindicato. That is not the case here or this would not be happening.

And the saga continues
Now they have opened the posibility of resuming talks for next week.
http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n1027411.htm

[Edited on 1-30-2009 by fdt]

vandenberg - 1-30-2009 at 08:47 AM

Unions outlived their usefulness quite a while ago.
They were a necessity, many years ago, to put a stop to owner abuse of their workers.
Trouble is, there never seems to be a happy medium. After many years of establishing their rights, workers, through their unions, starting to go overboard with their demands and slowly but surely started to cut their own throats.
Automotive industry a main exemple.
So, back to square one.

JESSE - 1-30-2009 at 02:38 PM

Los Arcos will liquidate all employees and close for ever it was announced today, i hope the bastards that run that union can find a way to explain their members, that they decided to go on strike right at the start of the worst reccession in our times. If i belonged to that union, i would be furious with the leaders, because not only did i lose my job, but it would be almost imposible for them to find another during these tough times.

BMG - 1-30-2009 at 05:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vandenberg
Unions outlived their usefulness quite a while ago.

Not according to Robert Reich.

I don't know the facts on the Los Arcos strike, but at this time it sure looks like the union leaders should be looking over their shoulders.

Bajahowodd - 1-30-2009 at 05:36 PM

Robert Reich has it right. There was no better time in this country than at the height of the union movement. It was Reagan firing the traffic controlers that signaled to big business that it was OK to bust the unions. Million of people grew up with excellent, affordable healthcare, were able to send their kids to college, and had excellent defined benefit pensions. It has been all downhill from then.

For the life of me, I have never been able to understand how the (shrinking) middle class in this country could champion the ongoing destruction of unions and be in lock step with the scions of industry whose only mission is to further depress the lifestyle of the middle class while ramping up profits.

How can anyone, without a huge portfolio of stocks and bonds, or a huge safety net of savings, follow the ideas of rich people who are in the business of screwing them.

Turning into an off-topic thread now.

BMG - 1-30-2009 at 06:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Robert Reich has it right. There was no better time in this country than at the height of the union movement. It was Reagan firing the traffic controlers that signaled to big business that it was OK to bust the unions. Million of people grew up with excellent, affordable healthcare, were able to send their kids to college, and had excellent defined benefit pensions. It has been all downhill from then.

For the life of me, I have never been able to understand how the (shrinking) middle class in this country could champion the ongoing destruction of unions and be in lock step with the scions of industry whose only mission is to further depress the lifestyle of the middle class while ramping up profits.

How can anyone, without a huge portfolio of stocks and bonds, or a huge safety net of savings, follow the ideas of rich people who are in the business of screwing them.

Bajahowodd - 1-30-2009 at 06:10 PM

Sorry. But I kind of freaked when I saw the post from Vandeberg.

vandenberg - 1-30-2009 at 07:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Sorry. But I kind of freaked when I saw the post from Vandeberg.


Used to be a union guy myself at one time and for years had a business that was a union shop.
Main problem, because a guy belongs to a union doesn't make him necessarily worth union wages. Most workers get carried on the backs of the guys that know their business.
Believe me, I know what I'm talking about. Have seen a myriad of serious and costly abuses of the system by union members. How do you like $25,00 a/hr electricians getting time carded in by their fellow workers for days at the time at big time &material jobs at steel miils and shipyards?? And this is many years ago. I have a little larceny in my soul, but this is beyond a little misschief. This Los Arcos thing is also a small exemple of what I'm talking about. There has to be another solution to just closing the place down. right? The union folks/leaders don't care, they still go to their job tomorrow. I heard there's lots of room left around Hoffa?

Bajahowodd - 1-31-2009 at 12:52 AM

No doubt that there were abuses attributed to unions. But history will inevitably show that there was a concerted conspiracy among the elite to castrate the unions in the pursuit of higher profits for the elite. The healthiest solution is a level playing field. The Los Arcos employees are probably incapable of controlling their "union". That's because as prior posts noted, the union leadership is most likely to be in cahoots with the owners. Otherwise, why would any rational person attempt to strike during an economic calamity?

LOSARIPES - 1-31-2009 at 03:17 AM

This is another case of union stupidity carried out to its worst level. It is true that unions have been able to help working conditions, wages, etc. but to push the boss to this limit where the business' best option is to close is flat out negligent and embarrassing leadership. What an incredible failure. They f-ck up so badly they now have left 190+ employees w/o a job in possibly the worst time of the last 50 years...!
I hope others learn from this experience.

TMW - 1-31-2009 at 11:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
No doubt that there were abuses attributed to unions. But history will inevitably show that there was a concerted conspiracy among the elite to castrate the unions in the pursuit of higher profits for the elite. The healthiest solution is a level playing field. The Los Arcos employees are probably incapable of controlling their "union". That's because as prior posts noted, the union leadership is most likely to be in cahoots with the owners. Otherwise, why would any rational person attempt to strike during an economic calamity?


The members had to vote to strike by a majority. So whatever the union leaders told them they must have believed.

If I own a business it is my business to make whatever profit I want to make if I can make it, not the union and I don't care about a level playing field. There is no law about a level playing field. Laws for workers are about minimum pay, not maximum. About overtime and breaks and lunch periods. There are no laws or rights that says the union gets 50% of the profit. The union didn't start the business I did. They don't like it go some where else to work. When was the last time a union gave investment capital to a company that needed it?

Bajahowodd - 1-31-2009 at 01:05 PM

FYI- The Robert Reich op-ed piece in the LA Times resulted in a ton of letters stating that he was either plain crazy, or suggesting that this must have been an article he wrote 30 years ago.

Time will tell. There's no winner or loser here. Just spirited debate.

As for Los Arcos, who knows if Coppola didn't engineer the whole thing because with such a drop in hotel occupancy, and the ongoing economic downturn, it saves him money to board up the place until demand turns things around?

UNION FUNDED CAPITAL INVESTMENT

bajajazz - 1-31-2009 at 06:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TW
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd

. When was the last time a union gave investment capital to a company that needed it?


I don't know the last time a union loaned investment capital to a company that needed it, but I do recall that the financial success that is the whole damn gambling industry in Las Vegas was initially funded by Teamster's pension money supplied by corrupt "unionists" to Mafia gangsters. Assuming that money was repaid, I think that example should stand as a model for other industries needing capital investment to get off the ground, after first weeding out any Mafia involvement in the transaction. Industries need capital, workers need jobs, what's wrong with marrying up the two in a synergistic relationship?

805gregg - 1-31-2009 at 08:00 PM

Back to the subject, I stayed 5 days in La Paz because we were based in Los Arcos Cabanas. I loved it there, it's a shame, the staff was great and very helpful.

Bajahowodd - 1-31-2009 at 11:43 PM

Need to make a correction here. Bajajazz' attribution to me was incorrect. The quote was from TW. That being said, I thoroughly agree with the point jazz makes. That's what I was talking about in prior posts about a more level playing field. If there is no cooperation, things are not going to improve. The more balance there is, the better it is for more people.