BajaNomad

New Shocks

dtbushpilot - 2-16-2009 at 09:09 PM

I'm getting ready to put the camper on the truck for a Baja adventure and thought that it may be time for new shocks. Truck is an '06 Dodge 2500 quad cab diesel. I have air bags that help the ride with the camper but I still get some "battle shipping". I don't want the ride to be too stiff when the truck is empty.

Any recomendations?

Sharksbaja - 2-16-2009 at 11:35 PM

Yeah it's a trade-off. While gas shocks and/or airbags certainly help. it's sometimes really hard to dial it all in for multiple uses.

Can you adjust the pressure on those thangs? Imo if the rear is too stiff then switch to a system you can fine tune. There are many options out there.

My 2500 felt to "springy" with a fully loaded bed so I switched to adjustable gas shocks & a leveler leaf. But now I have changed my suspension and lift in the front and have yet to see how she does fully loaded across different conditions. I'm sure I'll have to tweak something.

It's interesting how different our vehicles feel from one another. Simple adds or mods can greatly affect steering, handling and ride performance.

I like enough stiffness and dampening to keep from bottoming out on the toughest dip or bump but the jarring you get on stiff setups like my old Powerwagon can wear you out. Plus you know that is hard on stuff.

So soon I'll report on my new setup. I doubt it will be as smooth as my former cheap lift.:lol: The trade-off there was serious wear & tear on all the moving frt components.

Methinks it's better to stiffen with a quality arrangement rather than to opt for a cheaper remedy. You might want to look at eliminating the bags and adding a leaf or so and quality shocks. Maybe coil-overs would work well. That looks like a lot of load there Dt. What's it weigh?

Hook - 2-17-2009 at 12:56 AM

I mistakenly replaced my Rancho 9000 shocks with Bilsteins.

Dont get me wrong; I much prefer the Bilstein ride with the camper off. But with it on, the rear is too mushy. Wish I had saved the adjustable 9000s for the back.

You situation might be different with the air bags. But if you want adjustability, the newer versions of the 9000 give you 7 settings, I believe.

dtbushpilot - 2-17-2009 at 07:27 AM

Sharks, the air bags go between the frame and leaf springs and you can put whatever air pressure is needed to level the load. They help to stiffen things up too and you can let the air out for normal suspension.

The camper weighs 1800lbs empty but by the time it's loaded it's all the truck wants. I've been in lots of places with it that I shouldn't have been and it's never complained.

Hook, how long did the Rancho's last?..

Thanks for the help guys.........dt

Hook - 2-17-2009 at 08:00 AM

They lasted for a few years, cant remember exactly how many. Probably about 2-3. They never failed; I was just looking for a smoother ride. These were purchased after the production run of bad Rancho shocks that everyone seemed to experience (premature failure in Baja conditions). Haven't heard many bad things about them lately but I dont hang out on off road boards. That's where you might find that info.

MY campers maximum allowable weight is supposedly about 2300, wet and loaded. It's a 9-4 Lance Squire; a 1993 model.

Taco de Baja - 2-17-2009 at 08:19 AM

Rancho 9000s are great shocks.

I really like the adjustability on my Tacoma. I can dial in the ride for a fully weighted down Baja adventure, or an empty commute to work. No failures in the 9 years-or-so they have been on except I had to replace the rubber bushings with polyurethane 6 months ago at ~$5 a shock.

You can get them in manual or a switch on your dash. As I don't adjust them too often I went manual. With the switch version though you get a compressor that you can use to fill tires or your air bags…..I do have a Firestone hard mount compressor, which is a godsend for quickly filling tires, I just chose not to plumb it into the Ranchos.

desertcpl - 2-17-2009 at 09:55 AM

Message: Hi guys,

I've run a number of tires over the years in Baja and my favorites are as follows:

BFG M/T. This is a very agressive, beefy tire. I don't use it today because it is not E Rated. The E rating is critical on my truck because it is a diesel and very heavy. On a tacoma, you don't need e ratings, so this would work well. I used these on my ford ranger and dodge ram (gas) truck for years and never flatted them. You can get 40,000 plus out of these.

The tires we currently use are the Toyo Open Country M/T. In my opinion, this is the best agressive tire on the market. The rubber is so thick it is unbelievable. It comes in a lot of different sizes and you should be able to find a size to fit your truck. I know a number of people who have raced the Baja 500 and 1000 with these tires and did not flat them in multiple races!!!!! I can attest to their durability. I flatted once, only because I drove a huge nail right through it. Not much you can do about that. They take an amazing amount of abuse and hold up very well. I suspect I'll get close to 40,000 miles out of mine. Much of that mileage is in Baja.

Another great option is the Goodyear MT/R. I haven't run this, but know many who have. It is not quite as thick of rubber as the Toyo, but thicker than the BFG.

None of the tires I recommend are economical. I will tell you that. They are, however, very good. It all depends on what you are looking for. Personally, I prefer to spend a little more on tires/suspension to know that I won't have too many problems down the road.

As far as shocks go, I'm running the Fox 2.5 Pro racing series with remote reservoirs. I don't believe there is a good bolt on system for the Tacoma with the Fox set up. I would recommend one of the three below.

ICON Vehicle Dynamics. These are the guys who used to be Donahoe Racing:

http://www.iconvehicledynamics.com/product_results.php?make=...

I used to sell suspension for a living and these guys make good, reasonable stuff for the Toyota. You will notice a huge difference in how your truck handles the washboard.

The other products out there that I would recommend are:

http://www.kingshocks.com/perfkits_tundra.php

http://www.camburg.com/tacomaP05.html

I've run King shocks on my dodge and they are awesome. Camburg is very reputable as well.

Good luck

Marek

Baja12valve - 2-17-2009 at 10:02 AM

I also have a heavy diesel. I put in Rancho 9000s in cab adjustable shocks, using their compressor and they have worked very well. A pain to install, but once in there, I have liked them a lot.

805gregg - 2-17-2009 at 10:08 AM

I run Rancho 9000 on my 03 Dodge 3500 srw long bed, with air bags. I have an 95 Lance that weighs about 2700 wet, no problems. I don't really need the air bags as the camper just levels the truck off.

BigWooo - 2-17-2009 at 10:22 AM

We've had Rancho's on three different trucks. Had failure at about 80,000 on one truck, and about 110,000 on the other. For the abuse they've taken, hauling the load we have, I'm happy with how long they lasted.



Our new truck above has air bags and Rancho 9000's also. It handles well off road, on moderate straight washboard I can drive 30-35 mph comfortably.

I have a remote adjuster also, but haven't had the pleasure of installing it .

The ride with the truck empty is fine.

dtbushpilot - 2-17-2009 at 10:47 AM

Thanks for all the great advise guys.

I found RS9000's at my local CarQuest for $23 less (each) than on line at Shockwarerhouse so I got them.

Now the question is: how about some settings guidelines?......dt

BigWooo - 2-17-2009 at 10:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dtbushpilot

Now the question is: how about some settings guidelines?......dt


I think that depends on your truck. My Fords had stiffer suspension so I had the shocks set at a lower #. My Chevy has a softer suspension so I ride with the shocks a little stiffer.

Just play with them, but I usually have them soft on washboard and stiffer over rocks.

cantinflas - 2-17-2009 at 01:39 PM

Are the Rancho 9000s you guys are talking about the 90$ mas o menos or the 190$? I'm looking for shocks for my old 4x4 diesel suburban. Thanks C

elgatoloco - 2-17-2009 at 01:59 PM

re: battle shipping

Have you upgraded your anti-sway bars?

http://www.hellwigproducts.com/products/sway_control/sway_ba...

BigWooo - 2-17-2009 at 03:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by cantinflas
Are the Rancho 9000s you guys are talking about the 90$ mas o menos or the 190$? I'm looking for shocks for my old 4x4 diesel suburban. Thanks C


$90 each, although I've seen them for as low as $75 from time to time if you shop around.

dtbushpilot - 2-17-2009 at 04:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by elgatoloco
re: battle shipping

Have you upgraded your anti-sway bars?

http://www.hellwigproducts.com/products/sway_control/sway_ba...


Not yet, I'll look into it. Thanks for the link.....dt

elgatoloco - 2-17-2009 at 05:30 PM

The replacement sway bars for the front are 1 3/8" diameter and the rear 1 1/8". I know on my Ford F-250 1999 I did replace the stock unit as it was not nearly as beefy. That and getting leafs reworked helps with camper as I use truck with and without.

Maybe these would work

Sharksbaja - 2-18-2009 at 02:17 AM

Does anyone use these wireless adj shocks? Looks like they will work with trucks lifted to 6" .

Rancho Shock Absorber - Polyurethane
2003-2005 Dodge Ram 2500"RANCHO RS9000XL SHOCK ABSORBER, REAR, DRIVER OR PASSENGER SIDE, LIQUID METALLIC, SOLD INDIVIDUALLY -- 32 in. Extended Length, 19.25 in. Collapsed Length, Bushing And Sleeve Upper Mount, Bushing And Sleeve Lower Mount, Twin-Tube Gas Shock Absorber, 9-Position Adjustability, Allows Manual Adjustment And In-Cab Remote Adjustments Via MyRide Wireless Tuning Technology, This Premium Shock Boasts Compatibility With Rancho's MyRide Wireless Controller Part Number RS999705, Includes Boot And Polyurethane Bushings, With Rancho's Limited Lifetime Warranty"
Fit Note: Crew Cab, Regular Cab, 4 Wheel Drive, Rear

Russ - 2-18-2009 at 06:25 AM

I have, I think, the same dilema. Too hard riding empty and too soft with camper. I use the air bags to level the truck but as far as the "battle shipping" the only thing that helped was to air up the tires to max rating. My original set of BFG's were only rate for 40psi. Now they're like 60psi and it made a huge difference. And I got rid of the Rancho 9000s and now have KYB. That helped with the camper ride but the F250 ('96) is really tough on rough roads. Even after airing down to 30psi. I don't know the best solution. Good luck

Hook - 2-18-2009 at 06:43 AM

Russ, if your original set of BFGs were only rated at 40psi, I doubt they were rated to carry the load you were carrying. The 60psi tires may not be either, especially if you are running a diesel.

You should determine your weight when loaded and wet and then check the sides of the tires and make sure you are within the limits. Dont forget to add the weight of people and a full tank of all fuels and other liquid tanks. And if you tow, add the tongue weight of the trailer.

BigWooo - 2-18-2009 at 09:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Does anyone use these wireless adj shocks? Looks like they will work with trucks lifted to 6" .


I'm pretty sure you can get the shocks to fit just about any lift.

I have the wireless adjuster, but haven't installed it yet. The lines and compressor that came with the kit seem a little bit flimsy. It also looks like it's going to be somewhat difficult to install. If I ever find time to crawl under my truck, I'm going to give it a go and see how long it lasts.

dtbushpilot - 2-18-2009 at 09:33 AM

I didn't opt for the remote adjusters. I figured I wouldn't get around to installing it either and figured I wouldn't actually change the settings until I put the camper on the truck and by then it probably would be broken. Should be pretty easy to crawl under the truck and change the setting....dt

bajabass - 2-18-2009 at 04:06 PM

Any 3/4 ton or 1 ton should have 10 ply-80psi max tires. For non-lifted and small lifts the KYB Mono-Max is the best shock I have seen. From unladen to Duallies with work beds, great units in my opinion. I own a suspension and alignment shop in O.C. and work on large trucks daily. In 30 years of selling KYB's I have seen very few fail and they do have a lifetime warranty. A rear anti sway bar is a great addition on any truck that does not come with one O.E. Air bags are a good way to cut sag and body roll, but plumb them separately. Also have the alignment checked with the rig loaded and ready to roll. Major alignment changes can happen with heavy loads, mainly on independant suspension designs. Monobeams, or straight axles ars not affected as badly.

Barry A. - 2-18-2009 at 04:13 PM

I have run KYB's for many years with nary a problem.

But we opt for load range C tires (BFG AT's) so we can air them down in the dirt to the low 20's, or even lower in sand. Can't really do that with 10 ply tires. This requires that you have an on-board compressor as it takes too long airing up for pavement with anything else. Ours cost $300, but it is worth every penney as it is really fast.

Barry

bajabass - 2-18-2009 at 04:49 PM

I would worry about 6-ply tires on a heavy rig. Check the load capacity at max psi. 6-ply tires are almost always a 50 psi tire. Do not over load-over inflate a light tire on a heavy rig. also maks sure your tire shop does not use p-metric stems, rated at 50 psi. Use steel or the proper reinforced rubber stems rated at 100 psi. I see this almost daily in my shop. Get a regular stem real hot at 60 or 80 psi, and you will spit them out like cheap bubble gum. Costco and large chain stores with un-educated tire men do it all the time. Spit out a stem at 60mph on a heavy vehicle and hang on!!!:(

bajabass - 2-18-2009 at 04:57 PM

I normally run camber as close to zero as possible and always run caster as high as possible,and yes,in factory spec. Self centering improves as you increase caster. Also, as you add weight to the rear and it settles down caster increases as well. Check alignment fully loaded, 1/2 tank of gas, air set as used, compensate for driver weight(ind. susp). Mono-Beam Dodges and Super Duties do not show major changes with passenger weight.

Barry A. - 2-18-2009 at 05:45 PM

Good info, Bass-----------thank you.

Barry

Shocks for Dodge 2500's

lkane - 2-18-2009 at 05:59 PM

Gents,
New on here but wanted to offer a suspension reference specifically for Dodge 2500's and their uses Baja.

KORE performance built my 04 Dodge Cummins 2500 suspension and the owner has extensive knowledge of these trucks and there applications in Baja. He is based in Valley Center, CA. In 2008 Fore was named "best suspension" at the Off Road Impact Show. Although some of it can be expensive, he certainly would be worth a phone call for guidance. The owner always answers the phone.

www.koreperformance.com

Best of luck.

bajabass - 2-18-2009 at 06:14 PM

Any time Barry! I can't fix every car in Ca., but I will share info any time I think it may help, let alone possibly save lives. Overloading under rated tires, wrong stems, under-over inflated tires can KILL. I take my job and my customer's safety very seriously. Just remember, most times free advice is worth what you paid for it. Except mine, of course!! LOL

bajabass - 2-18-2009 at 06:55 PM

Toyo Open Country AT's and MT's are good tires. I use and prefer Bridgestone Dueller AT Revo's. I will not downgrade from 10 to 8, or 8 to 6 ply tires on my own truck, or my customers.

My composite frt end

Sharksbaja - 2-18-2009 at 09:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by whistler
Shark,saw only Rancho 9000xl for a 4" lift.If you have a 5 link suspension,(I am pretty sure you do) by lifting 6",you increase your extended shock length by 2".This will shorten your droop by 2".


Think you are correct about the fronts Whistler, up to 4". Those I listed are for the rears. The ext length for 4" calls for an extended length of 27.5' vs 32" for the other part number. That's 4.5" total more extension.
Here the 4" lift info:
Rancho Shock Absorber - Rs9000x
2004-2007 Dodge Ram 2500"RANCHO RS9000X SHOCK ABSORBER, REAR, DRIVER OR PASSENGER SIDE, LIQUID METALLIC, SOLD INDIVIDUALLY -- 27.25 in. Extended Length, 16.875 in. Collapsed Length, Bushing And Sleeve Upper Mount, Bushing And Sleeve Lower Mount, Triple-Tube Gas Shock Absorber, 9-Position Adjustability, Ensures Exceptional Performance Under A Full Range Of Load And Temperature Conditions, Features Graphite-Impregnated Teflon Band And 5/8 in. Double-Chromed Hardened Rod, Ideal For Towing And Hauling, With Rancho's Limited Lifetime Warranty"
Fit Note: Rear, 3/4 Ton, 4WD, 0" - 4" Rear Lift.
Series: Rs9000xFree Shipping on Orders Over $50
Availability: In Stock
-------------------------
Btw Glen, I did away with my original lift. I am currently sporting a little more brawn. Total lift frt 8" rear 6.5"

Progessive coils, dual shocks. Heim links for control rods, trackbar,stabilizer and end-links. Greaseable new design ball-joints, u-joints.

Relocated steering damper,steering box brace. Kevlar brk lines, ceramic brakes. TOYO Open Country MT 38X13.50R18LT

Gonna get some bump-stops and limit straps before I get too crazy!:wow:

Now I'm rebuilding the trans with heavy duty clutches and a 2800 stall converter. There is no limit to these %*$!!# upgrades.:lol:

[Edited on 2-19-2009 by Sharksbaja]

bajabass - 2-19-2009 at 08:48 AM

Hey Whistler, what alignment shop is that? Accurate Alignment in Orange owns me, er, I mean I own it.::yes: Sage and I know each other well. He does great work. He used to be almost next door to me. His Dodge stuff works very well.

cantinflas - 2-19-2009 at 02:23 PM

Are the KYBs you guys like the Monomax or the Gas adjusts? Thanks for any reply.

Hook - 2-19-2009 at 02:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabass
Any 3/4 ton or 1 ton should have 10 ply-80psi max tires. For non-lifted and small lifts the KYB Mono-Max is the best shock I have seen. From unladen to Duallies with work beds, great units in my opinion. I own a suspension and alignment shop in O.C. and work on large trucks daily. In 30 years of selling KYB's I have seen very few fail and they do have a lifetime warranty. A rear anti sway bar is a great addition on any truck that does not come with one O.E. Air bags are a good way to cut sag and body roll, but plumb them separately. Also have the alignment checked with the rig loaded and ready to roll. Major alignment changes can happen with heavy loads, mainly on independant suspension designs. Monobeams, or straight axles ars not affected as badly.


Bajabass, how would a KYB shock help my mushiness when I have my Lance on the back? No air bags, just a stock F350 4x4 (no lift), running Michelin 10 ply LTX-MS. Probably 80% highway, 20% dirt roads. My stock Biltsteins have the rear end bouncing 3-4 times when I take a speed bump. I want something that is 1-2. Even the Rancho 9000s on the softest setting were too stiff. This was an older 5 setting pair.

I used to run KYBs on my old Nissan 4x4 and loved them.

Then I started drinking the Kool-Aid on the Nomads board................:lol:

[Edited on 2-19-2009 by Hook]

bajabass - 2-19-2009 at 04:22 PM

Cantinflas, on lighter vehicles I start with the Gas-A-Just. 3/4 ton and up, use the Mono-Max. Hook, on your truck the Mono-Max should work well. Check the compression and rebound feel. I have seen many Rancho shock virtually lock up hydraulicaly after time. Try to find a shop that will let you take a quick test drive on the Mono-Max units, if they are WAY to stiff, try the Gas-A-Just. After a few hundred miles all shocks will settle in a little bit. If you ever find yourself in O.C., I'd love to help. Sorry, no roadside assistance in Sonora. Put down the Kool-Aid and step away!!! Way to much sugar. LOL

cantinflas - 2-19-2009 at 04:37 PM

Thanks bajabass. I'm trying to figure out wich shock absorber will be the best for my 84 diesel suburban. All my driving is in Mexico with the usual mix of topes,dirt and pavement driving. The last monroe gasadjust I bought were a wast of money. They did'nt last but 1.5 years. I'm thinking either bilsteins or kyb monos? Thanks again for any answers.

bajabass - 2-19-2009 at 05:25 PM

The Monroe Reflex or Sensa-Trac shocks are junk in my opinion, even softer than worn out O.E. On any diesal truck the Mono-Max is the way to go. Bilsteins have very good,smooth dampning. Very good on trucks that need smooth articulation all the way through the travel, compression and rebound. Example, low speed rock crawling type stuff. The KYB's have quite a bit more nitrogen pressure to cut body roll and handle heavy weight and hard, sharp hits. Topes, potholes, speed bumps, ect. Just bought a 09 Tundra TRD 4x4. When the Bilsteins give up, Icon coil-overs (Donahoe) in the front, KYB rears. Need the adj. coilovers to level the front out. I spend many hours each day sorting out alignments on over lifted-poorly designed lifted trucks. I will only do leveling-slight lifts in my shop. I just fix the rest. My job is to correct the headaches, not install them!!!

Hook - 2-19-2009 at 09:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabass
I have seen many Rancho shock virtually lock up hydraulicaly after time.


I am wondering if that is what I experienced on my 9000s in the rear. I could not get the adjusters to go to 1 or 5. They physically resisted it. It would only move between 2-4, and none of the settings seemed any different.

bajabass - 2-20-2009 at 09:20 AM

Very possible Hook. Not uncommon in my experiences.Check action compared to a new one if possible.Then check any other shock you wish to use as a replacement. You can barely compress a new Mono-Max or Gas-A-Just. Bilsteins, a little easier. This is not the remote res. types I am referring to. On newer trucks with coil-over design, it is a lot of work, the coils are hard to compress. Standard design is a breeze, and worth the time. Check a few new and old shocks and you will begin to get a feel for it. What is a good ride for some, can be hellish for others.