BajaNomad

? for you insurance experts

Santiago - 2-21-2009 at 09:11 AM

I've run into a 'problem' and need some advice. I have my boat insurance with Progressive as they provide comprehensive (no liability) in Mexico. Recently, I've been leaving my boat in Baja instead of towing it back and forth every trip and started wondering if theft would be covered if I was not there. I first called Progressive's help line and after being put on hold for about a week, got the answer I expected, "probably not". The theory was that I was storing the vehicle in a location that was not allowed; Massachusetts, or D.C. or Mexico. (I understand D.C., but what's the matter with Mass?) However, they said it would be the claims adjuster's call.
OK - so I call our local adjusting office and talk to the boat guy who says "gee, I've not run into that one before"; digs out the policy and says he thinks I do have coverage, weather or not I am in Mexico. He then puts me on hold for 5 minutes and comes back on and says that he could not get a hold of his supervisor but called the main adjusting center in Southern California and they agreed with him - I have full comprehensive coverage when the boat is in Mexico, whether or not I'm there.
My question is obvious, how do I get this opinion in writing? Further, every Help Center call is recorded and saved, so there is now communication in my file that says I probably do not have coverage.
By the way, I have got quotes from Mexican insurance carriers but there's no point in buying an expensive secondary policy if I don't need to. And yes, I did explain to Progressive that their risk is greatly reduced if I leave the boat in Baja rather than if I tow it back and forth and store it in California. They did not seem too impressed with this line of reasoning......

Diver - 2-21-2009 at 09:22 AM

If a tree falls in the woods and no-one hears it ......... ?

Your boat will only be "stolen" if and when you are there to confirm it.
So you are there - they stole my boat, etc.....
There will be no police or other report in Baja until you are there to make the complaint.

Santiago - 2-21-2009 at 09:40 AM

Well, yes, I had thought of that. But what of a Tripuli (sp) situation: the whole camp burns down, destroying the boat and it would then be an easy matter to fix the time of the loss and my whereabouts.
I want to know how to get clarification on a policy that the employees of the company seem to disagree on. If I call the adjuster back and ask him to put it in writing, I'm sure he will say that he can't. No insurance company wants their employees promising coverage that may not be there - that's why there is a written policy. So how do I get clarification on a policy so that there is no wiggle room?

woody with a view - 2-21-2009 at 10:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Santiago
Well, yes, I had thought of that. But what of a Tripuli (sp) situation: the whole camp burns down, destroying the boat and it would then be an easy matter to fix the time of the loss and my whereabouts.
I want to know how to get clarification on a policy that the employees of the company seem to disagree on. If I call the adjuster back and ask him to put it in writing, I'm sure he will say that he can't. No insurance company wants their employees promising coverage that may not be there - that's why there is a written policy. So how do I get clarification on a policy so that there is no wiggle room?


you need to demand clarification, in writing. until then you are taking chances. worst case is they deny you when tipui happens. best case, you knew they would and bought secondary coverage.

Bajahowodd - 2-21-2009 at 12:30 PM

As daunting as it may sound, try reading your policy. Pay specific attention to the Exclusions and Conditions section.

BajaNuts - 2-21-2009 at 04:32 PM

Try calling the Help Center again.

As you have already found out, different people give different answers, so when you get one that gives you the answer you want, ask them to put it in writing and send it to you. Also GET THEIR NAME, or employee number, or whatever and document when and who you talked to so if you don't get the clarification letter in a timely manner you can call back and talk with the same person who is already familiar with your situation.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out:D

CaboRon - 2-21-2009 at 05:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
As daunting as it may sound, try reading your policy. Pay specific attention to the Exclusions and Conditions section.


On my policy it clearly states, in tiny, tiny print, that it is not in effect without a valid visa.

CaboRon

Bajahowodd - 2-21-2009 at 06:09 PM

To expand on this, insurance companies, their employees and their lawyers must rely on what is printed in the contract. Too often, they don't and that's what lawsuits are about. But basically, I really don't think getting any "commitments" from call center employees means squat. Read the policy. Check under territory, conditions and exclusions. If, after the fact, an insurance company decides to "interpret" to their favor without written support in the contract, then woe to them. Another angle is to have a really experienced agent. You are dealing with Progressive. Don't know which division, since they have several companies, some of which use independent agents. Funny thing is their founder is a staunch advocate of marijuana legalization, yet the company's claims department tends to be hard ass.

Pescador - 2-21-2009 at 06:39 PM

Contrary to the rantings of Bajahowodd, an insurance contract is exactly what it states. Since I am an insurance agent in Colorado I called the claims department and found out clearly that I am covered in Mexico on my Progressive policy. The grey area, which you ran into, is whether you are leaving the boat for a short term period or always. The best answer to that question is that I usually bring it home at the end of the season. Everyone is correct that whatever customer service people tell you and the other information you get is not worth much of anything. It will boil down to the policy and the stated coverages. I get really riled up when I hear "brain surgeons" stating things like that adjustor or claims person just wanted to screw me out of my claim. Whether or not a claims person approves a claim or does not approve a claim has absolutely nothing to do with their income and they do not work on a commission basis and as far as what the founder does or does not believe in has absolutely nothing to do with a contract of coverage.
By the way, Progressive does have it figured out and knows that you do need a Mexican liability policy while towing your boat on Mexican highways and roads and that policy only covers you while towing and attached to the tow vehicle.
Now let's say that you park for lunch and someone hooks up your boat and hauls it away. Your Mexican policy does not cover that because you are stopped, but the Progressive policy would cover the theft of the boat at that point. And I was told that if the crooks run over someone, it does not reflect on my Mexican liability because it was stolen at that time.

Bajahowodd - 2-21-2009 at 07:07 PM

Rantings? 'Scuse me. I spent 35 years in the insurance claims industry. Had a fairly high level job in management at one time. I worked on some really thorny issues involving pollution claims, construction defect claims, and AWD (Americans with disabilities) claims. Been to more Arbitrations and
Mediations than I care to count. My only advice here is that since insurance claims people are controlled too often by idiot management wannabees, that once you understand what the language is contained in your policy, you might need an attorney. Bottom line is that you will never know what you are entitled to until a loss happens.

Santiago - 2-21-2009 at 09:35 PM

Thanks guys - I have my work cut out for me.

Paladin - 2-22-2009 at 12:52 PM

Santiago
Ive meaning to contact you after years of reading your posts.
You go to a lot of places that interest me also etc.
If I remember correctly you are in Fresno??? Me too.
Funny also that I just found out more about Pescador who I also follow, he doesn't know it yet but he is going to get a new neighbor. I moved my plans slightly north from Mulege to San Bruno. Now I probably shouldn't add to Jim's post because he's obviously smarter than I am because at the same age and profession he sure fishes more than I do.

Anyway I have been in the insurance business for 34 years and with a Fresno Independent Agency. For drill I also do consulting work which is eclusive to fighting insurance companies that mishandle claims.

Anyway Jim is right...what does the darn policy say....thats all that is important, the bozos opinion on the phone doesn't mean squat. Good news is though Progressive is a pretty decent company compared to most thieves out there today.

Anyway back to situation at hand. I'd love to meet you Santiago and chew the fat about Baja. I'll be happy to "translate" the policy also, it's really no big deal to me to do it. I'm looking to get out of the business and get my butt to San Bruno so I promise I'll be selling nada.

Im more interested in getting my 1984 ARCA Super Panga back to it's real home.

Anyway my real name is Terry Moore 559-304-7707.