BajaNomad - Does Volunteer Work Require a Work Visa

Does Volunteer Work Require a Work Visa

CaboRon - 2-28-2009 at 02:38 PM

When I first moved down here the Nomads who befriended me said that I could not do any volunteer work without having a proper Work endorsement to my FM3 ....

What is your considered opinion.

What about volunteering at the Pet Clinic, the Recyclying Center, Acting in the Local Play ...

Just wondering what work is considered work .

CaboRon

Polls and opinions

Dave - 2-28-2009 at 02:45 PM

Unless you work for Migra it don't matter. :rolleyes:

fdt - 2-28-2009 at 02:47 PM

Yes, it is required but why bother if May 1st is only 2 months away.

CaboRon - 2-28-2009 at 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Unless you work for Migra it don't matter. :rolleyes:

Dave,

Not sure I completely understand your answer ...

I should think you would care if Migra was enforcing.

We have a town here where more than half the gringos do some kind of volunteer work .

I guess I am asking .... is there anything to enforce ?

CaboRon

Woooosh - 2-28-2009 at 03:01 PM

Anyone that would come to Mexico to volunteer for anyone or any purpose (not for financial gain) shoud be sainted, not cited.

This country couldn't really be this stupid all the time- can it? Let's hope they make exceptions for emergency events, disasaters and security situations.

[Edited on 2-28-2009 by Woooosh]

fdt - 2-28-2009 at 03:07 PM

No exeptions. Remember were SOS

YARDSAIL - 2-28-2009 at 03:15 PM

Volunteer work, as such does not require a visa change....But if you are on the board of directors of a non profit mex. corperation, then yes, you need an addition to your FM3. And to make matters even tougher, they cost 1500 pesos. but that is a one time charge....

Bajahowodd - 2-28-2009 at 03:17 PM

Ron, you may need to get a proper visa to do volunteer work in Vegas. :lol:

[Edited on 2-28-2009 by Bajahowodd]

comitan - 2-28-2009 at 03:18 PM

YARDSAIL

Yes I can confirm that.

Woooosh - 2-28-2009 at 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fdt
No exeptions. Remember were SOS

True. Thanks Right Guard!

:saint:

shari - 3-1-2009 at 08:56 AM

I was fined by immigration for doing volunteer work and told that on a tourist visa...you are just that...a tourist on holiday and you are NOT allowed to do ANY volunteer work without permission from immigration authorities which will require a different type of visa....dumb eh.

ckiefer - 3-1-2009 at 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
I was fined by immigration for doing volunteer work and told that on a tourist visa...you are just that...a tourist on holiday and you are NOT allowed to do ANY volunteer work without permission from immigration authorities which will require a different type of visa....dumb eh.

Bummer. Must be trying to generate some revenue while keeping their eyes on the masses. I visited immigration recently to inquire about the upgrade on an FM3 to change the activity, such as being on a board of directors of a mexican corporation. Results? Must change your activity to reflect this, the cost is around 2000 mxn, in addition to your annual renewal fee which is usually about the same amount. Usually this would be for the president, secretary, and treasurer. Or those with signing authority. Used my broken spanish and charades, so there could be something lost in translation.

Acuity - 3-1-2009 at 10:35 AM

I was once hauled before the chief guy at immigration in Cabo on the thought (incorrect) that I had not changed my FM3 status at that time to allow me to serve on the volunteer condo board. They also harassed those who checked attendance at condo meetings.

My understanding is that any work, paid or not, that might be seen as taking work away from a Mexican (whether they would want the work or not) is not allowed without an appropriate permit.

And while we're on the subject, how about collecting money as an unregistered charity (i.e. not as an A.C.)? Many do it, but I doubt it is allowed.

David K - 3-1-2009 at 10:49 AM

Bringing hand-me-down clothes to the poor is against the law, too. :rolleyes:

ckiefer - 3-1-2009 at 11:12 AM

Uh oh, I see them pulling up now!

Gotta run, bye!

Quote:

Originally posted by Acuity
I was once hauled before the chief guy at immigration in Cabo on the thought (incorrect) that I had not changed my FM3 status at that time to allow me to serve on the volunteer condo board. They also harassed those who checked attendance at condo meetings.

My understanding is that any work, paid or not, that might be seen as taking work away from a Mexican (whether they would want the work or not) is not allowed without an appropriate permit.

And while we're on the subject, how about collecting money as an unregistered charity (i.e. not as an A.C.)? Many do it, but I doubt it is allowed.

Try this for size !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

beercan - 3-1-2009 at 11:53 AM

I fly for the Flying Sams out of Tucson. One of many groups that come to Baja. They are charged for tourist permits each trip !!

Quote:

by Shari
I was fined by immigration for doing volunteer work and told that on a tourist visa...you are just that...a tourist on holiday and you are NOT allowed to do ANY volunteer work without permission from immigration authorities which will require a different type of visa....dumb eh.

toneart - 3-1-2009 at 02:43 PM

Yes! With FMT or FM3 you need prior approval from immigration to volunteer when raising money for any and/or each event. (I know of what I speak). As a band, we have to do this and bring a signed receipt from the beneficiary after delivery of the money. The mistrust is from locals who fear we will take away their potential jobs, which is certainly NOT the case. But immigration doesn't ever want any complaints so they keep a tight lid on the practice. No work endorsement has been needed as we are not working. This could vary from district to district.

Bajahowodd - 3-1-2009 at 05:36 PM

Shari Bondy! Are you telling us that after all this time, you still maintain an FMT?

David K - 3-1-2009 at 08:35 PM

HowOdd... Shari is married to a Mexican now, has a Mexican daughter... and is pretty much part of the Mexican world... She was refering to way in the past...

EnseNADAslim - 3-1-2009 at 10:57 PM

Slim Cracks his knuckles,,,,,
Mrs. Slim (Debbie) and I are here for the main purpose of Missions work, and that being mostly Volunteer. Our organization is registered as a Social Service organization and not as a religious organization due to the amount of paper work requiered and the representation needed. After hear many stories like Shari's and some with much worse consequences we finally looked into FM3's.
We are registered as Lucrative Volunteer workers the receive no income. So, we can work only as volunteers. We work with a real nice lady in Rosireto that handles all of our paper work and she's real good. So in short, yea, ya need an FM3, still though, there are many down here that don't have them, but it's always good to do the right thing.
Have a great Day ya'll
Slim
:cool:

Mango - 3-1-2009 at 11:22 PM

Just curious. I know many churches/missionary groups often build houses in Mexico for poor people. If you do indeed need a FM3 to do volunteer work, do the church members all get FM3's?

I doubt any of them get FM3's for their short duration trips. I'm not positive about this; but, I am curious.

shari - 3-2-2009 at 08:26 AM

For the record....my volunteer work was like 15 years ago and I even asked the immigration guy what I needed and he said NADA...no problema...but another immigration guy got me later

David K - 3-2-2009 at 08:37 AM

I am amazed at the poll at the top of this thread... as if opinion makes something a fact?

Doesn't matter how many vote that you don't need an FM-3 to volunteer work, the law doesn't change!

A tourist card/ visa (FM-T) does not permit you to do anything in Mexico other than being a tourist on a vacation. If you decide to 'help' Mexico by volunteering... then that requires permission from the government... Otherwise, they see it as a wealthy gringo taking away work from a needy Mexicano. If nobody volunteered, then locals would have to be paid to do work.

Sure, I know... volunteers do things for the poor, who would never afford to pay to have work done.

Same is true about donating clothes... we took kids clothes for the poorest of the poor, at the Los Pinos farms near San Quintin (via Juanita & Dave). The government sees this as taking away sales from local clothing stores!

CaboRon - 3-2-2009 at 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
I am amazed at the poll at the top of this thread... as if opinion makes something a fact?

Doesn't matter how many vote that you don't need an FM-3 to volunteer work, the law doesn't change!

A tourist card/ visa (FM-T) does not permit you to do anything in Mexico other than being a tourist on a vacation. If you decide to 'help' Mexico by volunteering... then that requires permission from the government... Otherwise, they see it as a wealthy gringo taking away work from a needy Mexicano. If nobody volunteered, then locals would have to be paid to do work.

Sure, I know... volunteers do things for the poor, who would never afford to pay to have work done.

Same is true about donating clothes... we took kids clothes for the poorest of the poor, at the Los Pinos farms near San Quintin (via Juanita & Dave). The government sees this as taking away sales from local clothing stores!

Excellent summation David,

As to the poll I was looking for a little more than someone's feelings on the matter ....

As to clothes, my neighbors , were stopped just north of GN and hassled extensively for the clothes they were bringing from their church in Placerville to the local children.

They were told they could be forced to drive back to TJ and delcare and pay duty on everything. Luckly that did not happen. They were also told that in the future they would need to clear customs at the border and it was suggested they have a letter from their home town church explaining the reason for this contraband. SOS

CaboRon

wilderone - 3-2-2009 at 09:46 AM

"Work" is loosely defined, and any crime violating your visa prohibitions would be a federal crime. Cought be federales, prosecuted by federales, with proof. Do you really think this is going to happen? NO.
How many organizations have trips into Mexico where people pay to "work" at turtle conservation camps? Habitat for Humanity projects?

David K - 3-2-2009 at 09:47 AM

Thanks for that Ron!

It is good to know and let all readers of Nomad know that Mexico is a different country than the U.S. or Canada... with their own laws and customs! :light:

Some come south and act miffed when those facts hit them head on! :rolleyes:

Skip_Mac - 3-2-2009 at 09:58 AM

Remember a lot of USA citizens get really upset when a Mexican does exactly what you are describing... entering the USA and working without proper permits...even when they may not grasp the details of the law.

Acuity - 3-2-2009 at 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skip_Mac
Remember a lot of USA citizens get really upset when a Mexican does exactly what you are describing... entering the USA and working without proper permits...even when they may not grasp the details of the law.

Memory can, perhaps, become selective in the heat?

DENNIS - 3-2-2009 at 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
For the record....my volunteer work was like 15 years ago and I even asked the immigration guy what I needed and he said NADA...no problema...but another immigration guy got me later

They went to different schools.....only one of which offered, "Predator 1A."

David K - 3-2-2009 at 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Acuity

Quote:

Memory can, perhaps, become selective in the heat?

Working in the USA is never a crime, as it can be in Mexico. We wish everyone who did come here for the benefits of employment actually worked and paid taxes for all the services they get!

The crime is entering the US illegally, without crossing at an official border... much like trespassing. The Americans doing volunteer work may be in Mexico legally (FM-T) and they did cross in at a real border entry port.

Don't see any relation between the two.

Acuity - 3-2-2009 at 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Working in the USA is never a crime, as it can be in Mexico. We wish everyone who did come here for the benefits of employment actually worked and paid taxes for all the services they get!

The crime is entering the US illegally, without crossing at an official border... much like trespassing. The Americans doing volunteer work may be in Mexico legally (FM-T) and they did cross in at a real border entry port.

Don't see any relation between the two.

So, if I enter the US as a tourist, I can work legally at anything I choose? Perhaps I didn't need to bother getting an H1B work visa :?:

It looks like the same issue to me, but maybe the heat is getting to my brain?

bajalou - 3-2-2009 at 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
[ We wish everyone who did come here for the benefits of employment actually worked and paid taxes for all the services they get!

The employer is the one breaking the law by not withholding taxes and SS and Medicare. And trying to classify them as "Independent Contractors" is the way they try to get around the law.

CaboRon - 3-2-2009 at 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Acuity

Quote:

So, if I enter the US as a tourist, I can work legally at anything I choose? Perhaps I didn't need to bother getting an H1B work visa :?:

It looks like the same issue to me, but maybe the heat is getting to my brain?

An alien in the USA needs a green card to work legally.

[Edited on 3-3-2009 by CaboRon]

BajaDove - 3-2-2009 at 05:59 PM

As a freebee treasurer of the (home owners ass.?) here my husband had to go with other board members to mitigation and get a permission that cost something. I don't remember what now. When we renewed our papers they asked if he still held that position.

David K - 3-2-2009 at 06:15 PM

I wasn't getting into the legal conditions of working in the U.S., I was responding to the comments in that the illegals in the U.S. seeking money for work is NOT the same as tourists in Mexico volunteering to help a good cause... in easy terms.

Americans doing volunteer work are not trying to violate Mexico's laws... they are without an FM-3, of course. But, the Mexicans who sneak across the border KNOW they are breaking the law. That is a big difference, IMO.

fdt - 3-2-2009 at 06:21 PM

I know a couple of people that live here in Tijuana that came to spread "The Word" and get more "Believers". They are here on an FMT only, don't want to spend the money to get an FM3 but do collect the "Tithing". I've been tempted to finger them but what if I get cursed

wilderone - 3-3-2009 at 09:15 AM

Religious, academic and scientific work is not the same as volunteering.
Working for a wage is not the same as volunteering.
Holding a position on an HOA while living in Mexico is not the same as volunteering.
Shari, weren't you running the Scammons whale watching concession for a few years? That's not volunteering.