BajaNomad

Fear, Fear, Fear!!!

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JESSE - 3-6-2009 at 09:37 PM

Have any of you guys got the feeling that now everything runs on fear?

You turn on CNN or Fox and it seems like your watching a documentary about the end of the world. Theres even plenty of documentaries that specialize on figuring out the posibilities of getting hit by a comet, a huge earthquake, supervolcanos, global warming, global cooling, supernovas, black holes, asteroids, the electromagnetic field turning, a huge landslide, tsunamis, and we can go on and on and on and on.

What the hell is going on?

Are we more at risk now than we where 20 years ago? NO

Then whats this business about feeding us fear all over the place? Violence in Mexico is up, yes, but in reality most of Mexico is still relatively safe. Violence in Baja is up, yes, but mostly in TJ and Rosarito, the rest is about the same as it always was, but now, because of the internet, tv, satellite, and the works, EVERYBODY is a reporter. And like any good reporter, you add as much crema to your tacos as you can posibly can.

Are we in a recession? yes, is it bad? yes, is it horibble and anything closely related to the great depression? no. I dont need no expert to realize that this world we live is in fact better, better healthcare, better laws, better education, better communications, then whats all this ultra exagerated fear pushing we get fed everyday?

I just wanted to post this because i want to tell all of those responsible for this, in goverment, the media, and where ever else, to f*** off. Fact is, times are tough, and i am sure many are hurting bad, but in reality, so what if we can only buy 2 starbucks coffes instead of the typical 6 a week? or if we can only afford to eat out once a month instead of once a week like we use to? are we that spoiled? are we that empty that we have to feel like chit if we can only afford the 25 dllr bottle of wine instead of the 150dllr one?

Look, things are bad, but we are not living in somalia, we are not eating rice from a bag droped from the air as aid, we are not sick and unable to get ANY type of healthcare not because we cant afford it, but because there isnt any. So how come according to the media we are all going to hell?

Screw the media, yes its bad, but we have it good compared to the rest of the world, we shouldnt be eating all that crap they are trying to feed us, we should be thankful, and happy that we have what we have, because its a hell of a lot more than what most people in the world have.

There, i said it, and you know what, i am going out tonight, i am having fun, and i am thanking god for the gifts he has given us.

The Gull - 3-6-2009 at 09:45 PM

The world has already ended. The SPAM blockers kept everyone from getting the e-mail. Fear - The fuel that Democrats run on.

Bajahowodd - 3-6-2009 at 10:04 PM

Bush found out that it works beyond anyone's dream. Everyone else with an agenda has just adopted it.

ckiefer - 3-6-2009 at 10:13 PM

Well as far as the starbucks coffee goes, I scouted out a good expresso maker at walmart, bought my beans at costco, and now viola! I have my own ice coffee, cappuccinos, lattes, you name it. At a fraction of the cost that "they" charge. Not all have run in fear, it's made alot of us more wise on how we choose to spend our bucks though.... Am I hooked? You betcha! It's still legal....:tumble:

robrt8 - 3-6-2009 at 10:15 PM

Keep the fear going. I like crossing NB in twenty minutes.

JESSE - 3-6-2009 at 10:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by soulpatch
I guess it depends how media dependent you are.
2 Starbucks vs 6? $25 bottles of wine? Wow, you are doing better than me.....
There are a lot of empty stores in my work district..... they weren't that way 2 years ago.....and all those people aren't just having to cut back a little, they are in the hurt box, let alone the ripple effect that has.
Look at the numbers of displace people....people should have been afraid a little over 8 years ago. This will take decades to clean up.


I dont drink cafe, i am just trying to say that wether its a starbucks coffe, or a visit to the local chinese restaurant (wich i do), things are not as bad as the claims from the media. The fact is, we have way more than most people in the world have, and we do not appreciate it enough.

Happiness surrounds us, we live in a beautiful and safe place, and we shouldnt lose sight of that reality.

DENNIS - 3-6-2009 at 10:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Have any of you guys got the feeling that now everything runs on fear?




Is that what you see on the faces of those as they walk into your restaurant?
Maybe a Lomotíl Parfaít for desert.....

Barry A. - 3-6-2009 at 10:23 PM

Unemployment in Shasta county, and Redding in particular, hit 15.4% the newspaper reported today. That is not hype, that's reality!!

But, generally speaking Jesse is right on----and I can see it all around me, even in Redding. WE WILL SURVIVE.

Barry

JESSE - 3-6-2009 at 10:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Have any of you guys got the feeling that now everything runs on fear?




Is that what you see on the faces of those as they walk into your restaurant?
Maybe a Lomotíl Parfaít for desert.....


Quite the opposite.

JESSE - 3-6-2009 at 10:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Unemployment in Shasta county, and Redding in particular, hit 15.4% the newspaper reported today. That is not hype, that's reality!!

But, generally speaking Jesse is right on----and I can see it all around me, even in Redding. WE WILL SURVIVE.

Barry


Thats what i am saying, its bad, its really bad, but nothing like the great depression or living under N-zi rule.

DENNIS - 3-6-2009 at 10:43 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE

Is that what you see on the faces of those as they walk into your restaurant?
Maybe a Lomotíl Parfaít for desert.....


Quite the opposite.


Perhaps the entrée. :P

Thanks for not blowing your brains out over that one. It was all in fun.

DENNIS - 3-6-2009 at 10:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Thats what i am saying, its bad, its really bad, but nothing like the great depression or living under N-zi rule.



Jesse...If you had any idea how close we are to reliving the
Great Depression, you would soil your under-garment. It isn't just a historical reference. It's right in our back yard trying to get in. Save your Pesos and buy a big gun for self preservation.

djh - 3-6-2009 at 10:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by The Gull
Fear - The fuel that Democrats run on.


A person has to be pretty isolated & comfortable in their bubble to think that fearmongering belongs to only one party, or nation, or ethnicity... etc. It is a HUMAN thing (as opposed to "humane").

A convenient way to sustain a self-righteous, marginalizing or hateful attitude: to fault, blame, accuse, and blast away at "THEM"... ? ?

Doesn't that type of posting / comment go in the "OFF TOPIC" or "POLITICAL" area...?

[Edited on 3-7-2009 by djh]

JESSE - 3-6-2009 at 10:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Thats what i am saying, its bad, its really bad, but nothing like the great depression or living under N-zi rule.



Jesse...If you had any idea how close we are to reliving the
Great Depression, you would soil your under-garment. It isn't just a historical reference. It's right in our back yard trying to get in. Save your Pesos and buy a big gun for self preservation.


Even if we did, wich i dont think will happen because the world is much different and the economy far more diverse, it would still not be as bad as we THINK it is.

DENNIS - 3-6-2009 at 11:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
the economy far more diverse, it would still not be as bad as we THINK it is.


There is no more credit....There is no more confidence in the economy. Nobody is spending. The stock market is tanking deeper each week and it can't fall much further without total colapse. No money on the streets....no employment.....no credit....no future in sight.
Diverse economy? Is that what you said? It's called NO economy. That is what it's leading up to if something miraculous doesn't take place.
Don't blame my opinions on me. I just read the Wall Street Journal.

P.S. ..........Call me in six months and I'll let you give me fifty bucks to take your restaurant off your empty hands.

BajaNuts - 3-6-2009 at 11:52 PM

I can't say anything about Punta Banda, but NOB, contrary to all the media hype, 92% of mortgages are current and not in foreclosure! Do I want the government to bail out the banks that financed that 8% of bad mortgages? HECK NO! We work our patooties off making the monthy payment just like all the other 92%. That's not the huge financial crisis affecting all American households that the networks would have us believe.

Negativity sells, and media has thrived/survived on negativity since the dawn of "news" in the stone age.

Yes, economic downturns affect real people. WA state used to be a logging capitol with many communities dependant on the industry on many levels. Logging tanked, people survived, changed jobs, started other businesses, and the communities evolved.

Not saying it doesn't hurt a little and make us more cautious about spending extra cash vs saving it for a possibly very soon rainy day....

[Edited on 3-7-2009 by BajaNuts]

BajaNuts - 3-7-2009 at 12:01 AM

For Every Negative News Item You See, Ask Yourself, Is The Glass Half Empty Or Is The Glass Half Full?



when something legitimately bad happens, is it the end, or the door of opportunity to bigger, better things?

(Please don't think about bringing in natural disasters....I'm talking man-made situations)

Bajahowodd - 3-7-2009 at 12:21 AM

Nuts- You are right. It seems to me that given the fact that the so-called financial geniuses tend to be from the right side of the aisle, it astounds me that there is so much gloom and doom being proferred. Especially since it was these same folks who right in the center of the run and gun market.

I cannot get my head around the concept that there are people who want the current administration to fail. From Rush to Beck, and all those in between, WTF?

JESSE - 3-7-2009 at 12:56 AM

Wasn´t wallstreet type people the ones that got us into this mess anyway? i could give a rats a** about their opinions. When things where good (and they wherent) they hyped things in order to push the market as high as it could. Now that things are bad, they are pushing hard down trying to sell us doomsday is coming. In betwen those rides, someone is making a ton of money.

BajaGringo - 3-7-2009 at 01:01 AM

The real problem is that it is likely to get even worse in the coming months. I doubt that the US economy will ever make a "full" recovery. How can it? Business will continue to "outsource" seeking the cheapest labor market to build its products importing the materials from the lowest international provider. That global economy model cannot go backwards folks. GM, Ford and Chrysler may shut down their plants in the US but they will survive as an international business building cars in Mexico, Brazil, India and other third world countries. In bad economic times folks will buy the cheapest products available and as times get harder now they won't be manufactured in the USA. We as a nation cannot compete with current average wages and cost of doing business in the USA. This isn't just Obama's fault nor is it all because of Bush. I think they each played a role in pushing us down that path quicker but it was inevitable in the long run.

I have asked the question a hundred times and never heard an answer as to how we can avoid going to a global standard of living in a global economy?

I would love for someone to prove me wrong. Seriously...





[Edited on 3-7-2009 by BajaGringo]

BajaNuts - 3-7-2009 at 01:20 AM

Until Americans, and other nations included, consumers realize that they don't NEEEED a Mazarati to get from point A to Point B.....or they don't NEEEED a "super-hot-designer-handbag" to hold their credit card and (other personal stufffff)...........

Ya need a vehicle, great. There are speed limits so what's the point of having a Mazarati in the USA other than bragging rights? Well, imho, if someone needs a STATUS symbol, they are lacking in a few other areas.

The "Live Local" philosophy seems to be a little out of place on the Nomads forum. On the small scale, it makes tons of sense.

And how much power do you really think the Prez has? There are MANY more influential people in the world business area that call the shots. The Prez is a good face-man and is great for rallying the troups. And when rallied, the troups are a force to be reconned with.



Global standard of living........Thanks 'gringo, I haven't heard that before, it deserves consideration.......

[Edited on 3-7-2009 by BajaNuts]

CaboRon - 3-7-2009 at 05:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Have any of you guys got the feeling that now everything runs on fear?




Is that what you see on the faces of those as they walk into your restaurant?
Maybe a Lomotíl Parfaít for desert.....



:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

oldlady - 3-7-2009 at 05:42 AM

State of Fear....novel by Michael Crichton. Not a bad read and speaks to the issue in an interesting way.

Russ - 3-7-2009 at 05:54 AM

I know I'm simple minded but, if all those hundreds of millions of dollars were given to the people instead of huge businesses won't we spend it and stimulate the economic growth?:?:
Edit:
Oh, and back to the thread title. I would think that with some money in your pocket the fear of the future would be less and maybe a few "good" new reports would be seen in the media.

[Edited on 3-7-2009 by Russ]

Hook - 3-7-2009 at 06:48 AM

Sorry, but the people who overextended themselves, from Wall Street to Main Street, hopefully will get what they deserve. Americans couldn't continue living the way television was telling them to live. Their wallets cant take it and the planet cant take it.

Problem is, in all this bailout talk for these folks, I dont see the bigger message that YOU CANT LIVE BEYOND YOUR MEANS being talked about by the gov't. Instead it's, bail 'em out and that sends just the opposite message about personal responsibility. Instead it's, let's spend billions more, trying to fix something that overspending created in the first place. I'm with Rick Santelli on this one.

I just about publicly castigated someone on one of our local discussion boards who was casting a net for gringo mentors for underprivileged Mexican kids. WHAT??? YOU WANT THEM TO LEARN ABOUT LIFE FROM US??? :lol:

Then my common sense returned and I avoided ridiculing someone who is just trying to help the world be a better place.

The fear is there. You can feel it most acutely in persons nearing or in retirement. Too many people relied on ever-increasing housing values to fuel their retirement. Quite honestly, it played a big role in my decision to retire at 55. We just got out well before the bottom (wherever THAT ends up) and hadn't refi-ed up to the value of our home. My mutual funds are down about 40% from their highs...........but we have no debt. We'll make it.

[Edited on 3-7-2009 by Hook]

dianaji - 3-7-2009 at 07:00 AM

Jesse,

Thank you for your positive thoughts.


"What you think upon grows. Whatever you allow to occupy your mind
you magnify in your life. Whether the subject of your thought be good
or bad, the law works and the condition grows. Any subject that you
keep out of your mind tends to diminish in your life, because what
you do not use atrophies. The more you think of grievances, the more
such trials you will continue to receive; the more you think of the
good fortune you have had, the more good fortune will come to you."
--Emmet Fox from Make Your Life Worthwhile, 1942

Skeet/Loreto - 3-7-2009 at 07:25 AM

Jesse: A very timely Post. FEAR!

Several of my past Post have ask the Question as you Have. I can tell you what brings on that fear:

First "Poor Parenting""
Second Poor Goverment Programs that take care of people and Business that should take care of Themselves.
Third; Schools not teaching Children that it is O>K> to Fight for what you beleive in!!!


There are many others if one is to place "Blame", Not I !

Since I was born in 31 I have some memory of the Depression and I think that when we get to the depression Level that it just might teach a Generation of Younsters that it is O>K> to learn to be Competative, to SAVE some of their money for the Future, and that some peoples lives are worth saving instead of buying a new Car of House!!

Question for Bajagingo
"Who is the Standard for the Global??

Africa
Thailand
United States
China??

Jessee- Never Fear, there are still some of us left who will Defend this Great Country if Necessary and When Necessary.

Skeet

Osprey - 3-7-2009 at 07:49 AM

Gringo, what do you think sensible tort reform could do for the good ole U.S. of A.? Ain't gonna happen until we fill the Congress with farmers and tinkers and get rid of all the lawyers but if you chase the dollars down see what our current laws are costing us vis a vis health care, cars and highways, product liability, entreprenuership, etc.

Hook - 3-7-2009 at 07:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dianaji
Jesse,

Thank you for your positive thoughts.


"What you think upon grows. Whatever you allow to occupy your mind
you magnify in your life. Whether the subject of your thought be good
or bad, the law works and the condition grows. Any subject that you
keep out of your mind tends to diminish in your life, because what
you do not use atrophies. The more you think of grievances, the more
such trials you will continue to receive; the more you think of the
good fortune you have had, the more good fortune will come to you."
--Emmet Fox from Make Your Life Worthwhile, 1942


I'm sure all the house flippers and loan sharks had "positive" thoughts at one time, too. They had visions of "good fortunes".:lol:

Jack Swords - 3-7-2009 at 08:12 AM

Thankyou Diana for the quotation. I have always believed that. Well, here in the central coast folks are hurting. Empty stores, new ones closing monthly. The news is all bad. Yet, yesterday's trip to the store for some tomato plants found full parking lots, people carrying bags of purchases, lots of traffic. I would expect empty lots and vacant roads based upon CNN and MSNBC news. Saw a new Toyota drive off the dealer's lot. Local Honda dealer reports the best month ever! He now services and sells all models of cars, lowered price on oil change to $19.95, did other price adjustments. Good for him!

Time will tell. As usual it will not be as bad or as good as all the news predict. In a few days massive teacher layoffs begin in CA (and other states). Gotta keep the thought of Spring coming in 3 weeks... Thanks again Diana.

vandenberg - 3-7-2009 at 08:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
That is what it's leading up to if something miraculous doesn't take place.



The miracle is in the White House.:no::no::biggrin:

David K - 3-7-2009 at 08:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by vandenberg
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
That is what it's leading up to if something miraculous doesn't take place.



The miracle is in the White House.:no::no::biggrin:


Oh yah... r-i-g-h-t ;) :lol::lol::lol:

vandenberg - 3-7-2009 at 08:54 AM

New at Amazon:

"The miracle on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue"

by " The Messiah"

Oso - 3-7-2009 at 09:12 AM

"According to a new study, people are sleeping less because they're worried about the economy. I think also it might have something to do with the fact they're sleeping under bridges." -- Craig Ferguson

"One in 10 Californians are now unemployed. Unfortunately, Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't one of them." -- Craig Ferguson

"Was it nice outside today or not? Yeah! Sunny. I thought it was a very sunny day. I'm driving to work today and I saw a foreclosure sign with an awning." -- David Letterman

"Beautiful day. It was so sunny, as a matter of fact, down on Wall Street, the stockbrokers were applying sunscreen before they jumped." -- David Letterman

"But do you know anything about the Dow Jones, ladies and gentlemen? The Dow Jones average went down to 6,000. Do you know what that means? Neither do
I, but it's the first time in 12 years that the Dow has been the same as Rush Limbaugh's cholesterol." -- David Letterman

Ford - 3-7-2009 at 09:21 AM

There is a good article in newsweek about this very point of fear. The writter points out that it is very common swing from very "seemingly" good times to very bad times. He points out how we go from banks lending any amount of money to anyone to the banks loaning no amount of money to anyone!
On the other point of fear....I have had at least 4 or 5 people ask me "have you heard about what is going on in Mexico?" Aren't you scared you might lose your property down there? Are you really going to ever visit again?
I point out that this has been going on for many many years at the border towns. But the reason it seems worse now is the Mexican Government has said to the cartels "enough, we are taking back our country" and they are fighting back!
I don't even know if that is totally true, but it shuts them up a little!

Hook - 3-7-2009 at 09:38 AM

Actually, it's worse than that. It's gone from banks lending money to ANYONE to the taxpayer loaning money to the banks.

Some things are too insolvent to stay afloat. It's like chasing stage IV pancreatic cancer...........with your children's inheritance.

Some things are not meant to be.

Housing prices got too high. They need to correct, not be propped up artificially. It's already reaching correctable levels in the CA, where sales are humming as people see perceived bargains for the first time in a long time.

BajaGringo - 3-7-2009 at 09:59 AM

I agree with many of the points in this thread in dealing with abuses and shortcomings of Wall Street, banking, mortgage lending, education and the population itself that has used credit to live beyond their means. I also think that part of the fault lies in that we were programmed from childhood to believe in the "American Dream". That every generation would be better off than the one before, able to live the lifestyle portrayed by so many black and white TV shows of the 50's. That real estate would never stop increasing in value. In the second half of the last century that model of the "American Dream" began to be remolded into "Keeping Up with the Joneses" with the onslaught of TV programming and advertising campaigns targeted at pushing that new forming model. I remember as a small boy walking into a Sears and Roebuck store with my mom they would offer us a revolving charge card. I wanted my mom to get one just to see how it "revolved".

That increased use of credit was what fueled the US economic expansion in the second half of the last century. The economy grew as well as the size of government, fueled by increased tax revenues based on real estate and construction booms and whatever else they could figure out how to regulate. We have learned that there are limits to everything and now the bill has come due. If the US lived in a bubble I suppose there would be a chance of applying enough band-aids to the economy to prop it up again. The problem is that we don't. Going to a global economy, business has learned that you can grow sales by extending your markets beyond your borders. You can increase your bottom line by moving your manufacturing centers to third world countries with the lowest wages, start up costs and lowest net cost of doing business. With instant access to data and information via the Internet today that evolving business model is accelerating.

Many former "American" companies have become international corporations with no flag or allegiance to the US beyond wanting to sell its products to the US consumers who would take out a second mortgage on their home just to pay off all of their credit card debt so they could go out and do it all over again.

Taking an honest look at the US economy, I see no real hope for its future as it is today. I know that upsets many of you to hear that. It upsets me too. I worry about what awaits my kids and grandkids. But just wanting it to be like we had it because we believe in "American ingenuity" and "American values" won't do it today folks. With the current cost of business now we can no longer compete on the global market. Remember the outrage of labor unions over the NAFTA deal and the outsourcing of jobs to Mexico? What does it tell you that many of those same jobs have now left Mexico for China? It's all part of that global economy model.

What has me very concerned now is that China is closing factories and sending nearly a hundred million back home out to the rice paddy as the US can no longer buy enough to fund the Chinese expansion. Why does that worry me? They also hold a few trillion in treasury bonds used to fund the expansion of the US government, the war in Iraq, bailouts and beyond. As China needs to generate cash, what do you think they will do with those notes they hold? Why do you think Hillary was there a week or so ago?

Going to a global economy means going to a global standard of living. It is like water and although it may create waves and troughs in a storm, it will eventually reach its mean level. That includes the value of real estate, raw materials and human labor. With billions of people in the world working for less than ten dollars a day, and many for less than a dollar means that the mean level of values/wages will certainly drag down the US. I cannot envision any way it cannot. It will not be pretty.

Many in the US have cited the illegal immigration issue as a source of the current problem. Look around the globe - the problem with immigration is happening in many regions of this planet. It is not the problem but a symptom of the larger and real problem/reality - a global economy.

I am no economist. I would never be confused with any of the great thinkers out there but I have some God given common sense. I have been blessed to have traveled, lived and worked on several continents of this planet throughout my life and perhaps that added perspective has helped me to see this coming for a long time. I still hope that I am wrong but my gut keeps telling me that I am not.

Fear? It’s a basic human reaction to the unknown. I can understand that reaction…

Paula - 3-7-2009 at 10:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by Oso
"According to a new study, people are sleeping less because they're worried about the economy. I think also it might have something to do with the fact they're sleeping under bridges." -- Craig Ferguson

"One in 10 Californians are now unemployed. Unfortunately, Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't one of them." -- Craig Ferguson

"Was it nice outside today or not? Yeah! Sunny. I thought it was a very sunny day. I'm driving to work today and I saw a foreclosure sign with an awning." -- David Letterman

"Beautiful day. It was so sunny, as a matter of fact, down on Wall Street, the stockbrokers were applying sunscreen before they jumped." -- David Letterman

"But do you know anything about the Dow Jones, ladies and gentlemen? The Dow Jones average went down to 6,000. Do you know what that means? Neither do
I, but it's the first time in 12 years that the Dow has been the same as Rush Limbaugh's cholesterol." -- David Letterman


Jokes are no help... neither is blaming the ones in charge: Obama, Bush, Arnold... they don't control the money... CONGRESS DOES!

Congress changed hands TWO years ago, and that is why things slipped to where it is now.... (forcing banks to loan money to anyone). Of course, Obama was part of that new congress 2 years ago... he worked ONLY a hundred and some days as a senetor... then ran for president... HUH?

The question is can we last 2 more years until we throw these big spending bums out?

Yes, I agree that congress changed hands because the previous group didn't hold true to their principles and spent money like the other party....

So we went from bad to worse... Well, lets pray that the first group learned their lesson and gets back to their principles and we can hold on for 2 years with this current group!

My biggest fear is that these nuts in power will kill the American dream, and then launch us into a war or some disaster to keep their grab on power...

Let's pray not...



David, George Bush hadn't much training for the job of president when he was elected either. And some people might say that the American dream died under his watch, and that we entered into an unjustified war that has cost countless lives on both sides and ruined our economy, perhaps with the motivation of keeping us afraid and compliant.

But maybe we should move on from our set ways of thinking and just hope for the best for this country and for the entire world and all of it's people. After what has happened in the last 8 years, 6 of them under Republican control of congress, I don't understand why conservatives can't be at least hopeful for better times ahead under a new administration. It almost seems as if what matters most to to some is that THEIR SIDE fix things, not that things get fixed. And I hope that when/if things DO improve, this group will be able to recognize the improvement, and enjoy better times.

The Gull - 3-7-2009 at 10:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by djh
Quote:
Originally posted by The Gull
Fear - The fuel that Democrats run on.

Doesn't that type of posting / comment go in the "OFF TOPIC" or "POLITICAL" area...?


Well, well another Board Monitor candidate. You apparently missed your calling or you missed reading dozens of other posts on this thread and others which deal with politics. The real issue here is that YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME and therefore you want it silenced.

Spend some quality time fixing your avatar.

Now here is the required Dog Photo for a good Nomad posting.... the No Fear Dog

NoFear.jpg - 46kB

Skeet/Loreto - 3-7-2009 at 10:17 AM

Paula: Again you Post words that have on meaing, blaming George Bush and the War for our failed economy!

Com on Paula, the economy was riuned by a buch of Greedy people who could not be satisfied with One Car, a smaller House, another Gameboy for their Spoiled Rotten Kids who have been taught "Fear" so that they can be controlled when they grow up, all with huge Tatoos, rings in their Tongues, Meth in their Minds, with absoulety no SENSE at All !!


Let us go Forward to a Life with out blaming others for our own Shortcomings.

As ole FDR said"We have nothing to Fear, except Fear itself'!!!

Bob H - 3-7-2009 at 10:30 AM

Look at this!

http://tinyurl.com/cmkj4l

I don't believe it, but what if this is true?

Bob H

[Edited on 3-7-2009 by Bob H]

IT IS TRUE

The Gull - 3-7-2009 at 10:56 AM

As I have posted above, the world has ended, so do whatever you want to do, there are no consequences waiting for you, tomorrow.

NoShoesRequired - 3-7-2009 at 11:23 AM

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May they prosper who love you." Psalm 122:6

Barry A. - 3-7-2009 at 11:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by The Gull
As I have posted above, the world has ended, so do whatever you want to do, there are no consequences waiting for you, tomorrow.


We have decided to retreat to Borrego Springs where the air is so much clearer enabling us to see "the end" in all it's glory better. But we will only be there for a month, so I do hope that it comes soon, while still there. And just think, all the flowers will be "out" in celebration of "the end".

Barry

BajaGringo - 3-7-2009 at 12:18 PM

I don't believe this will be the end, but the beginning of a new era in world history. It will be a very painful change for many of us but the world will continue on for the time being I suspect. We're not getting out of this mess that easy - ha!

I think it is much more important that we focus on preparing for how we will get ourselves there and stop with all the finger pointing and blame games. Both sides of the political aisle have spent our great-grandkids into debt and there is a long line of characters who lead the way, right AND left. Actually we are ultimately at fault for letting them get away with it for so long.

However, I do think that this may very well prove to be a net gain in ways for Baja and other parts of Mexico. With shrinking stock portfolios, housing values and quality of life in the US, more seniors will probably look to retire here as time goes by. I do think that they will look for the "bargain" communities that are far away from the border areas but yet still offer basic services and low cost of living.

Some of you know that I have written articles online about my own move to Mexico and I have seen a large increase of late with questions from folks about how I did it and looking for advice. I always try to give them some basic pointers with a balance of the ups and downs of life south of the border. This morning I received four more such emails. I suspect that trend will continue.

But what do I know...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



[Edited on 3-7-2009 by BajaGringo]

Bajahowodd - 3-7-2009 at 12:23 PM

In response to David's off-kilter view that this whole mess began with the Dems taking control of congress two years ago, I have my own theory of the root cause of today's problem.

Blame it all on Philo T. Farnsworth. It was Farnsworth who developed the fundamentals of what became television. Robert Sarnoff, head of Radio Corporation of America more or less co-opted Farnsworth's invention and ultimately introduced commercial television at the 1939 World's Fair in New York. It took a couple of decades to come to fruition, but as television became ubiquitous, it gave easy access to "Madison Avenue" to develop its skills in convincing everyone that the absolutely "must" have things that they didn't really need. As people started spending on luxury items, came the development of credit facilities that enabled folks to spend even more on things they didn't really need. Fast forward to today's house of cards.

Nah, David. Two years? Not close. Just my humble opinion.;D

dianaji - 3-7-2009 at 12:49 PM

this is why i try to stay in the moment...in this precious moment i have food, a roof over my head, a car. so i don't waste these precious moments thinking and fearing the unknown. what i know is now... not wasting energy and focusing on what MIGHT happen. i try to grow as much of my own vegetables as i can, barter, recycle, be as sustainable as i can. i try to have community, help others. "let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me."

Barry A. - 3-7-2009 at 12:55 PM

Your absolutely right, Don Jorje------but I submit it is all mostly a "state of mind"-------I feel the same way about most of the rural USA, and even the small cities---------it is only when I journey to the large cities that I start feeling slowly uneasy, and I seldom linger there.

There is beauty and simplicity almost everywhere I look-----and it has always been that way.

I have never understood the mind-set that the "commercials" espouse------pretending to know what we want-----------rediculous, to me anyway. I don't think that I have ever (knowlingly??) been impacted by any commercial.

Beautiful writing, both Don Jorge, and others. I love almost all your posts.

Barry

vandenberg - 3-7-2009 at 01:11 PM

Quote:
I don't think that I have ever (knowlingly??) been impacted by any commercial
Barry


I do know of quite a few commercials that irritated me enough, to make sure never to buy that particular product, even if it was the best buy.

JESSE - 3-7-2009 at 01:11 PM

Great responses everyone, i guess last night i was thinking about the situation here in La Paz. Thankfuly we are one of a few restaurants holding their own in this awful economy, and by that i mean we are holding on to our employees as i have told them my main goal this year is not to lay off anybody. Other good friends that are also in the business are hurting bad, and i dont like to see that in their eyes. This has also made me realize that we are waaay too used to having it great ALL the time, and honestly we have gotten spoiled and have lost site of what matters.

So anyways, life goes on, it will go on, its not the end of the world its REAL life. Good things always come from bad times.

dianaji - 3-7-2009 at 01:24 PM

Quote:


So anyways, life goes on, it will go on, its not the end of the world its REAL life. Good things always come from bad times.


exactly!!!!!

Barry A. - 3-7-2009 at 01:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
In response to David's off-kilter view that this whole mess began with the Dems taking control of congress two years ago, I have my own theory of the root cause of today's problem.

Blame it all on Philo T. Farnsworth. It was Farnsworth who developed the fundamentals of what became television. Robert Sarnoff, head of Radio Corporation of America more or less co-opted Farnsworth's invention and ultimately introduced commercial television at the 1939 World's Fair in New York. It took a couple of decades to come to fruition, but as television became ubiquitous, it gave easy access to "Madison Avenue" to develop its skills in convincing everyone that the absolutely "must" have things that they didn't really need. As people started spending on luxury items, came the development of credit facilities that enabled folks to spend even more on things they didn't really need. Fast forward to today's house of cards.

Nah, David. Two years? Not close. Just my humble opinion.;D


Hmmmmmmm---------quite obviously getting the Conservatives and the Secular-Progressives to agree is near impossible. David's comments do resonate with me more than the more "left" point of view, and this is why-------:

I can just state my own experience as absolute fact--------:

My Stock Market portfolio a little more than doubled in value during the first 6 + year period of the past 8 years. It has lost about 55% of it's value (so far) since Oct. 2007, effectively erasing most of my gains. Roughly 20% of my losses have been in the last 7 weeks. You can come to your own conclusions as to why that is.

Barry

Iflyfish - 3-7-2009 at 01:34 PM

Very interesting post Jesse and subsequent discussion.

Fear in America

I think that your original post regarding your awareness of FEAR is apt.
Aside from the obvious economic situation that is affecting nearly all of us, there is the 24 hour news cycle that REQUIRES fresh meat. This beast thrives on drama. The newspapers and TV used to love fires, lots of great shots of flames bursting, firemen sweating and saving children etc.

Carl Rove saw the value of using fear to reach political ends and 9/11 provided just the right event to allow them to actualize the policies that Rumsfeld, Chaney, Wolflawitz, Pearl etc. developed after Gulf War I under George I. The literature is there for all to see if you look. Fear allowed the suspension of our laws and the development of a dictatorship in the USofA. The last 8 years have been a Federalists wet dream. Suspension of rights to privacy, warrantless wire tapping, rendition with out charge the list goes on.

The USofA periodically goes through spasms of fear, we are a Puritan built nation who hunted witches in our early years, feared and killed off Native Americans, feared each wave of new immigration, placed loyal American Japanese in prison camps during WWII, went through the McCarthy era of Anti-Communism and the Red Menace/Cold War, went hysterical at the change of the millennium in Y2K, horded and dug fall out shelters during the 50's and the list goes on. Nearly fifty percent of Norte Americanos believe in Creationism and avow some sort of religion, based upon fear of a hell. Religious fundamentalism has swept the world in the last decade as it appears to do periodically; they are all the same psychological characters, just different religious beliefs to support their xenophobia.

Thanks for this most interesting thread.

Iflyfish

edited for atrocious spelling

[Edited on 3-7-2009 by Iflyfish]

Irony

Bajahowodd - 3-7-2009 at 01:40 PM

Wonder how many of you recall the terrible inflation in the 70's. It was Carter's Fed Chairman Paul Volker who jammed interest rates up to 20% and left them there to tame inflation. the result was that two years after Reagan took office, unemployment was 10.8%, causing Reagan's approval rating to drop to 42%. Reagan then cranked up the deficit spending machine, to the absolute dismay of Dems and liberals who thought that deficit spending would be the end of the world, or at least the United States. (Upon Reagan's death in 1994, Dick Cheney is quoted as having said, "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter".) We all know how the 90s were in terms of economic expansion. Comes now, the Dem Obama and his massive deficit spending. And who is doing most of the "end-is-near squawking? Republicans and Conservatives. Seems a little ironic to me.

And I'm not taking sides; just making an observation.

[Edited on 3-7-2009 by Bajahowodd]

[Edited on 3-7-2009 by Bajahowodd]

[Edited on 3-7-2009 by Bajahowodd]

Barry A. - 3-7-2009 at 01:48 PM

Iflyfish says the following in the previous post-----

"The USofA periodically goes through spasms of fear, we are a Puritan built nation who hunted witches in our early years, feared and killed off Native Americans, feared each wave of new immigration, placed loyal American Japanese in prison camps during WWII, went through the McCarthy era of Anti-Communism and the Red Menace/Cold War, went hysterical at the change of the millenium in Y2K, horded and dug fall out shelters during the 50's and the list goes on. Nearly fifty percent of Norte Americanos believe in Creationism and avow some sort of religion, based upon fear of a hell. Religious fundamentalism has swept the world in the last decade as it appears to do periodically, they are all the same psychological characters, just different religious beliefs to support their zenophobia. "

I say, who among us can say what the world would look like if those actions had NOT been taken??? Nobody!! We can only speculate. Roughly 50% think that things would have been so much better, and roughly 50% of us think that most, if not all, of those actions have allowed us to survive and prosper like we have (up until about 15 months ago).

I seriously doubt that either 50% is going to suddenly, or even gradually, "change" because of what "the other side" says, mostly because each side exagerates, uses inflammatory language, and loses credibility with the "other side" because of it.

It is a trajedy, but that is simply 'the way it is'.

Barry

Bajahowodd - 3-7-2009 at 01:51 PM

In noting your profile mood as "optimistic", I was wondering what you are like when not??

Barry A. - 3-7-2009 at 01:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
In noting your profile mood as "optimistic", I was wondering what you are like when not??


:lol::lol: Some think me a complete fool, but I am ALWAYS optimistic--------to keep my sanity!!! :yes:

Barry

DENNIS - 3-7-2009 at 02:07 PM

Hang in there, Barry.

djh - 3-7-2009 at 02:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by The Gull
Quote:
Originally posted by djh
Quote:
Originally posted by The Gull
Fear - The fuel that Democrats run on.

Doesn't that type of posting / comment go in the "OFF TOPIC" or "POLITICAL" area...?


Well, well another Board Monitor candidate. You apparently missed your calling or you missed reading dozens of other posts on this thread and others which deal with politics. The real issue here is that YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME and therefore you want it silenced.

Spend some quality time fixing your avatar.

Now here is the required Dog Photo for a good Nomad posting.... the No Fear Dog


Take a look in the mirror, Gull.

You're right, in that I RARELY agree with you, and I've NEVER cared for the way you regularly accuse, insult, troll, pontificate, and dish out the abuse on Nomad... However, regardless of your assumptions and "therefores" I didn't say a word about silencing you.... Your posts and comments are a regular reminder of something important (to me). That being said, you missed my point:

"A person has to be pretty isolated & comfortable in their bubble to think that fearmongering belongs to only one party, or nation, or ethnicity... etc. It is a HUMAN thing."

and . . . I don't wanna fix my avatar (speaking of candidates for "Board Monitor") . . . you bossy hypocrit.

Nice photo! You look . . . well . . . sssssssssweet in those yellow pumps. Were you fixin to shoot yourself in the foot (again) there ? ?

:smug:

mtgoat666 - 3-7-2009 at 02:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Are we more at risk now than we where 20 years ago? NO


you are delusional. things were quite different 20 years ago, in the border areas and most all areas.

Paula - 3-7-2009 at 02:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by djh
Quote:
Originally posted by The Gull
Quote:
Originally posted by djh
Quote:
Originally posted by The Gull
Fear - The fuel that Democrats run on.

Doesn't that type of posting / comment go in the "OFF TOPIC" or "POLITICAL" area...?


Well, well another Board Monitor candidate. You apparently missed your calling or you missed reading dozens of other posts on this thread and others which deal with politics. The real issue here is that YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME and therefore you want it silenced.

Spend some quality time fixing your avatar.

Now here is the required Dog Photo for a good Nomad posting.... the No Fear Dog


Take a look in the mirror, Gull.

You're right, in that I RARELY agree with you, and I've NEVER cared for the way you regularly accuse, insult, troll, pontificate, and dish out the abuse on Nomad... However, regardless of your assumptions and "therefores" I didn't say a word about silencing you.... Your posts and comments are a regular reminder of something important (to me). That being said, you missed my point:

"A person has to be pretty isolated & comfortable in their bubble to think that fearmongering belongs to only one party, or nation, or ethnicity... etc. It is a HUMAN thing."

and . . . I don't wanna fix my avatar (speaking of candidates for "Board Monitor") . . . you bossy hypocrit.

Nice photo! You look . . . well . . . sssssssssweet in those yellow pumps. Were you fixin to shoot yourself in the foot (again) there ? ?

:smug:



David, This is THE post of the day!! You are hereby authorized to reply to Skeet on my behalf-- I just didn't have it in me. In the name of peace love and harmony I probably should have put this in a u2u, but actually I'm happy to share it with everyone.

Hope we see you down here again soon,

Paula

Barry A. - 3-7-2009 at 03:01 PM

Uhhhhhhhh :?: , Paula, you are "sharing" what?????

It must be too subtle for me to see.

Barry

Sharksbaja - 3-7-2009 at 03:21 PM

Hey David go over and back and read my(only) post on the off-topic. I'm thinking you must have a terrible time controlling all that pent up angst towards your neighbors(they can't all be Republicans).

Oh and why in the world would you include Rush in your rant. He's not a politician(yet).

Pointing fingers so early in Obamas' tenure highlights a problem that Jesse talked about. Gull has a point though, when the(biased) news channels pour out fear, the Democrats seem to take two shots of it at a time.

Jeese your perspective is spot on. To me the problems at hand are being primarily exacerbated by media concerns. To look closer would reveal a huge omnipresence of conservatives.

Hyperbole at the hands of Rush or Hannity is fodder for the viewing conservatives. It seems they enjoy and excel at srcutinizing every grain of the new administration, to the point of almost selfdestruction.

Of course liberals do the same only their PC packaging insulates them from a media feeding frenzy. The smiles and "positive" snapshots of themselves give a warm fuzzy feeling enriching everyones lives.

Whatever......(yawn)

Get over it for Christs' Sake. Like it or not we are all in the same boat ultimately when we measure it up globally. We need to get back our domestic and soveriegn attitude.

That's a hard wheel to fix though considering the scope of Corporate Earth. It's like the big corps are shooting themselves in the foot if the agree to that mantra.

The testing grounds being far off economies as well. This cannot be laid to blame conveniently upon the liberals with their attempt to fix that wheel. It's a big repair job.

As patriots it is our duty to support America and our neighbors. Don't paint your liberal compatriot as some type of evil villian or enemy like DK does.

It's interesting because while you detest liberals you call for cumbaya. You can't have it both ways......or can you?


Why does the current media snapshot portray such negative and destructive imagery and reporting? Ratings my friend. Oh, forgot to mention, a vicarious thill.

bajalou - 3-7-2009 at 03:26 PM

"My Stock Market portfolio a little more than doubled in value during the first 6 + year period of the past 8 years. It has lost about 55% of it's value (so far) since Oct. 2007, effectively erasing most of my gains. Roughly 20% of my losses have been in the last 7 weeks. You can come to your own conclusions as to why that is. "

Well, even ignoring Hoover's term, the stock market has gained many times as much during Democrat administrations than Republican. ?????

Packoderm - 3-7-2009 at 03:31 PM

20-25 years ago, I was more afraid of a nuclear war than I am now. A full nuclear exchange would definitely be bad for the economy. I was more afraid of getting drafted into some stupid war. I would hate to have to fight in a war in which I do not support. I was more afraid of Aids. I was afraid of knocking somebody up. There were fears back then too. However, these fears were proportional to the likelihood of them materializing. I wasn't afraid of our home of the brave becoming the home of the cowards as it seems today (edit). I remember ourselves being a bit more rational then. And it was back before the yuppie movement made us all into pathetic money grubbers. We seemed to value the different human virtues instead of worshiping the monolith called religion in which all the necessary virtues are contained. Still, I like the '70s better. If I had a time machine, other than for family and stuff, I'd have little reason to visit the 1990s and 2000s.



[Edited on 3/7/2009 by Packoderm]

Sharksbaja - 3-7-2009 at 03:32 PM

Yep, there is no denying both sides of the aisle are to blame.

Barry A. - 3-7-2009 at 03:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajalou
"My Stock Market portfolio a little more than doubled in value during the first 6 + year period of the past 8 years. It has lost about 55% of it's value (so far) since Oct. 2007, effectively erasing most of my gains. Roughly 20% of my losses have been in the last 7 weeks. You can come to your own conclusions as to why that is. "

Well, even ignoring Hoover's term, the stock market has gained many times as much during Democrat administrations than Republican. ?????


Lue------No argument from me on that one----mostly because I have never personally analized it, and assume you are right. I was just countering the supposition that the "Bush era" had been a bad one for the economy------"not for me", was my point. I stayed invested thru all Administrations, and made money long-term, up to now. Lately it has been rough!

80% of my income comes from my investments (reads Stocks), so I am particularly focused on the Market, and HAVE been for over 40 years. My income is now down by about 50%, and it hurts a little. I will survive, tho, mostly because I have planned for this eventuality. If it gets much worse, I will really feel it, tho. I admit it is hard to deal with emotionally, if you let it.

Barry

Paula - 3-7-2009 at 04:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Uhhhhhhhh :?: , Paula, you are "sharing" what?????

It must be too subtle for me to see.

Barry


My opinion that the gull had a kick in the pants coming. You are right, it is a rather incoherent post, Barry, and probably one I shouldn't have made. Not the first in this category, as you may also think:biggrin:

I try to be good, really:saint:

comitan - 3-7-2009 at 04:26 PM

Well I guess we don't have a moderator anymore by the looks of this thread. Enjoy it while you can.:fire::fire::fire:

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-7-2009 at 04:37 PM

Before this gets deleted let me show up and eat some popcorn and watch it unfold. I have a big bucket and will share.

At Midnight December 21, 2012 this won't matter anyway.

As the loony religious man on the corner says..."Repent The End Is Near."

OH MY GOD! It must be true it's even on the One Dollar Bill The Government would never lie to us...Right!



[Edited on 3-8-2009 by ELINVESTI8]

toneart - 3-7-2009 at 04:41 PM

Iflyfish is right on the mark...Bingo!

Do I live in fear? NO! But I am not happy about the destruction and dismantling of our economy. I have watched this unfold before our very eyes for a long time. You could have seen it coming.

To argue in defense of Bush/Cheney is untenable. To argue with Neocons, those poor duped Repubbys and Ayn Rand advocates who follow mindlessly and selfishly, is a lost cause. They drank the Koolaid and voted against their own self interests. (They just don't know it).The Democrat-controlled Congress is also culpable. They all work for the same corporate master and they are all sinking the ship.

The blame must be placed on systemic corporate and political greed and the rotten politicians who allowed the plundering of all of our country's wealth. Many conservatives blame it entirely on the people who bought more debt than they can handle. It is true that greed operates at that level too. They do share some of the blame, but they bought the B.S. that the Ponzi Scheme of an economic system sold them; through their stockbrokers, their banks, their credit card companies and The Media. Now the money is gone and it is indeed too late for Obama to save it. He has to try though. I support him but was against the bail outs. At least he has the chance to establish regulations and also indict the criminals.

I hope the Mexicans don't use that stupid, expensive, useless fence to keep US out of Baja. What goes around comes around. Too bad. They have a lot to teach us about how to do without, develop community and to share.

"The American Dream" is dead! The U.S.A. will soon be just another third world country. We are all in the same boat, regardless of your ideology. Better drop the rancor and learn to survive peacefully, together.

Now for a little levity: (Maybe Jesse saw this cartoon too).

A man in a robe and sandals, with long hair and a beard, is standing on a corner holding a sign that reads "The End is Near!". Just around the corner is another man who looks just like the first one, carrying a sign that reads "The End!"

Bajahowodd - 3-7-2009 at 05:51 PM

Let's stop giving too much comfort to the rapture crowd. Seriously. we've been through this kind of stuff before, and we've come back stronger. Any idea of how many articles have been written about Bush's environmental policies, failing to deal with the Israeli conflict, and now this global crash? There are people rooting for things to keep getting worse because they are deluded in the feeling that they will rise to heaven.

Barry A. - 3-7-2009 at 05:59 PM

Well Tony, that is a long-winded condemnation speach, for sure------now, what would you have done/did do differently?

The "system" was sure "working" for me-----------now it ain't-----what would you have me do?

Barry

BajaGringo - 3-7-2009 at 06:04 PM

The problem Barry is that it was working for some of us but apparently not so well for the vast majority. I truly believe that feeling was what got Obama elected more than any other factor.

Bajahowodd - 3-7-2009 at 06:24 PM

Bingo, BG.

TURN IT OFF

Stickers - 3-7-2009 at 07:17 PM

Jesse, the media makes money off of fear. If they report that 92% of all home mortgages are current they will not get ratings. But if they show one poor soul getting evicted they will get big ratings and make more money. A profit motivated new media is perverse and carefully getting into the heads of viewers to make money.

England knew this from the very beginning of radio and television and has tried desperately to keep the BBC on the level and circumvent this horrible situation of freaking viewers out to keep the ratings up.

TURN IT OFF

BajaGringo - 3-7-2009 at 07:28 PM

I agree that media can often blow things out of proportion but I will bet anybody here dinner that by years end the average value of RE will be even lower. That will fuel much bigger problems. You think 8-10% (depends on whose numbers you believe) is a small number to have fallen behind in their mortgages (in addition to the record numbers of foreclosures these past two years) then I think that you ought to measure that in real numbers of people and how it translates into more needing government assistance, loss in construction jobs, domino effect on the economy, etc.

This is so easy to sweep under the rug as media hype and I am still waiting for one of you that tout the current situation as no worse than semi-rosy to refute my assertion that a global economy is inching us towards a global standard of living and the root cause of our real long term problems???



[Edited on 3-8-2009 by BajaGringo]

toneart - 3-7-2009 at 08:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Well Tony, that is a long-winded condemnation speach, for sure------now, what would you have done/did do differently?

The "system" was sure "working" for me-----------now it ain't-----what would you have me do?

Barry


Barry,
I have always found you to be steadfast in your ideology, but yet willing to debate as a gentleman.

"Long winded condemnation speach (sic)" is a bit derogatory, but I will overlook that. I am trained to reduce my writing in order to eliminate unnecessary verbiage. Without proper editing I sometimes fail in that endeavor. Thank you for catching that. I will strive to do better. However, try to be clear that you are not using that term to express displeasure in that with which you don't agree. Surely you aren't, are you?

Unlike right-wingers who state that they do not feel sorry for people who have made poor choices, I do feel sorrow and compassion for all humans and animals who suffer, for whatever reason.

What would I have done? I did it a long time ago. I got out of the stock market. I saw it coming. I invested in Real Estate. I unloaded my apartment building six years ago and carried back the first mortgage, with 1/3 down. At the buyers' request, I renewed their mortgage at 8% for another five years. I have that income plus Social Security and Medicare. I also hold other properties which have depreciated greatly in value. I do not have any upside down mortgages. I have something tangible that I can actually stand on. I can grow vegetables too.

I am saying this with humility. Social Security, medicare and the paper I am carrying on the apartment building could all disappear. All I can do is try to future-gaze and move accordingly. I could repossess the building, but what would I have? Would tenants have money for rent? Nothing is for sure.

If the unthinkable occurs and the system totally collapses, I will survive. I may restort to cannibalism. I hear Republicans are tasty but rather tough. They need to be marinated and charcoal broiled, well done. :barf:

As some have noted, the Mayan calendar ends in 2012. Doubt whether they subscribed to the rapture theory though. We all have to leave this planet sometime. Might as well all leave together. Altogether now, two thousand eleven, two thousand twelve, two thousand... oh, I forgot 2013 doesn't exist. :o

comitan - 3-7-2009 at 08:42 PM

For a thread that belongs in off topic, there have been some interesting,worthwhile and well thought out postings.:o:o::yes::yes:

Barry A. - 3-7-2009 at 08:55 PM

Tony-------

I did not mean to be derogatory with my "long winded" remark, but I must tell you that I interpreted your comments as unusually inflammatory, and almost as if you had not read the previous posts at all, other than the one you cited, so yes, I was a little, shall we say, put off.

You and I have prepared in somewhat different ways to "survive" most economic setbacks, and that is good (for us, at least). When I say I have lost about 55% of my Stock Market holdings, that is only the loss of profits in the last 8 years, or so. I am still wayyyyy ahead of the game over all in my long term holdings, considering that I started some 40 years ago, and have regularly taken only 3% a year from my investments to live on----ie. I still have considerable holdings, but I stick to a rigid 3% withdrawal for income per year, so naturally my income is greatly reduced since my equity is down.

What I was really driving at was how would you have done things differently than the "neo-cons" and Bush------I have never really understood just how the secular-progressives would conduct the protection of the USA in response of the attacks on our homeland. Perhaps they wouldn't at all. Also, all that I have heard put forth by the progressives on the economy over the years is, in my opinion, unworkable and naieve (sp?), and Obama has embarked on proving that, it seems to me.

The Bushies made many economic mistakes, mostly by straying from the main tenets of Republican thinking, but the Obama'ites seem bent on compounding those economic mistakes ad infinitum.

I do not hate secular-progressives, I just think they have little understanding of "the way things actually work", and will unnessarily lead us down a path to austerity and weakness, and they are already rapidly on their way.

You, on the other hand, seemingly actually hate "neo-cons", and that is distressing to me, as all hate is.

Now, having said all this, we should probably carry on (or not) this conversation privately, as we occasionally do. :spingrin: in a civil manner, as usual.

Barry

No Fear, Dearies

The Gull - 3-7-2009 at 10:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Paula
You are right, it is a rather incoherent post, Barry, and probably one I shouldn't have made. Not the first in this category, as you may also think


Paula, no problem. Your totally incoherent post was an improvement over that total rant from djh.

The world has already ended and the two of you are still hanging on. Good for you.:lol::lol:

The Gull - 3-7-2009 at 10:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by djh
I don't wanna fix my avatar (speaking of candidates for "Board Monitor") . . . you bossy hypocrit.


Fixing an avatar appears be too taxing after blowing a blood vessel in one's head.

You left off the Naaa, Naaaa, Naaa, Naa, Naa, in your adult rant.

Bajahowodd - 3-8-2009 at 12:11 AM

"Secular" progressives says a ton. I always thought we we had separation of church and state. Over and out.

Iflyfish - 3-8-2009 at 12:40 AM

Barry A,

You wrote: "What I was really driving at was how would you have done things differently than the "neo-cons" and Bush------I have never really understood just how the secular-progressives would conduct the protection of the USA in response of the attacks on our homeland."

I would not have listened to the Defense Policy Board and it's NeoCons who wanted to invade Iraq even before 9/11 and who used the destruction of the World Trade Center as an excuse to do so.

See under section titled "War on Terror" for references:
http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1391.html

See further:
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/05/13/8923

One can read the documents if you take the time to do so. I am not making this up.

After 9/11 the world sided with the USofA and we had incredible support to go after Al Qaida and Osama Bin Laden. The world said "We are Americans too" I would have harnessed that cooperation to go after Al Quida in Afghanistan and used our resources to improve the lives of the Afghan/Pakistani people so they had an alternative to the influence of the zealots of the fundamentalist Muslim elements who use the military presence of the USofA in the Middle East to support their political agenda. I would have put our resources into Afghani infrastructure i.e. schools, roads carpet making etc. and attempt to improve the quality of life for the people of Afghanistan, which has been engaged in war for decades.

I would not have cut the Department of State out of the process of winning hearts and minds rather than using military force to fight Terrorism. Terrorism is in no ones interest if you have peace and prosperity, I would have focused on that.

America is a beacon of hope in the world and the people of the world admire and aspire to our wealth and material goods. I would have trusted this and worked to side with progressive forces around the world and engage even more in foreign aid, Peace Corps, etc. that put American people on the ground to support the efforts of local people. I would have used US dollars to fund local small loan banks like Kiva, to support local economies to become self sufficient in Afghanistan so that they could rely on something else beside opium.

I would have pressured Israel to actually provide a homeland for the Palestinians. I would have opposed further construction by Israel in Palestinian lands.

I would have done whatever I could do to provide the Social Services that are so needed in the Middle East rather than leave it up to Al Qaida/ Hamas, Radical Clerics, etc.

I would have engaged in massive public relations campaign around the world focusing on the dangers of Terrorism to All Nations. I would have done what ever possible to marginalize fundamentalists of all stripes in the USofA and around the world. I would have supported peaceful progressive groups around the world and particularly in the Middle East who were improving the lot of their common people.

Unfortunately the USofA was gripped by fear and turned to weapons of mass destruction rather than to diplomacy and nation building. The reactivity of the USofA is exactly what Bin Laden had predicted and our militaristic response and occupation of another sovereign nation without provocation has spawned a generation of terrorists, just as Bin Laden hoped for in his writings. Bin Laden played the USofA like a harp, we have been playing his tune since 9/11. Recall that the Soviet Union bankrupted itself in an arms race with the USofA and by fighting a protracted war in Afghanistan, which they lost. The Soviet Union also relied on the use of force rather than nation building strategies.

Iflyfish

edited for atrocious spelling

[Edited on 3-8-2009 by Iflyfish]

Bajahowodd - 3-8-2009 at 12:47 AM

Take it back. Amen Fishy. Great post. Veritas magnum.

BajaGringo - 3-8-2009 at 01:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by morgaine7
BajaGringo: "Global economy" is clear, but what exactly constitutes a "global standard of living"? Not sure where you're going with that. :?:

Kate


A global standard of living?

Historically the USA has enjoyed one of the highest standards of living on the planet for many decades as far as wages and the buying power of the average working joe when compared to the rest of the world.

My theory is that going to a global economy will level the playing field and wages/buying power will reach a global mean. Good news for third world nations and bad news for countries like the USA.

Barry A. - 3-8-2009 at 08:24 AM

Iflyfish-----

VERY WELL SAID, I must say, and I am printing it out for future reference in countering arguements in the future.

You did not address "economics" here in the USA, but then I really was not clear in my challenge to Tony on that issue, I guess.

Have you given any thought to joining the State Dept. ? We could use you there. All your points make good sense to me. Tho I am sure there are counter arguments, I certainly am not the one to make them, and from where I stand I cannot imagine what they are.

Again, very well done. Bravo, and thanks for taking the time.

Barry

Packoderm - 3-8-2009 at 08:42 AM

Iflyfish - Excellent post - Thank you.

CortezBlue - 3-8-2009 at 09:15 AM

I have seen some statistics that if you take all of the shootings in the USA and added them up it would be similar to Mexico. I was at least happy to see the piece that Fox News did on Mexico and during the interview the anchor blurts out he had just been to Mexico and had a wonderful time, felt safe and was treated like a king.
Bottom line if the USA started broadcasting the murders in Baltimore, MD on foreign TV our tourist industry would go down the toilet just as bad as Mexico.

DENNIS - 3-8-2009 at 09:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CortezBlue
Bottom line if the USA started broadcasting the murders in Baltimore, MD on foreign TV our tourist industry would go down the toilet just as bad as Mexico.


Can't imagine why any self-respecting tourist would want to go to a ghetto anyway. Let them report all of it.

Packoderm - 3-8-2009 at 09:40 AM

The difference between American street crime and what's going on in Baja is that the affluent areas in Baja are hit hard as well as the seedy. There is a feeling of a lack of control and it's hard to escape from the danger of loss of material and life. It would be like if the drive from Santa Clarita to San Diego passed through one big Compton where you have to keep your guard up at all times.

Iflyfish - 3-8-2009 at 09:49 AM

Thank you. It is hard to present complex ideas in an age of simplicity and sound bites.

Fear activates the most primitive areas of the brain, the part we share with the reptiles.

The brain evolved into a tripartite structure starting first with the primitive reptilian brain, adding the neocortex, including the speech areas, and finally the frontal lobes which are used for forethought, anticipating consequences and putting a brake on the primitive reactions and impulses. Folks with Attention Deficit Disorder have an underactive frontal lobe. The Bush family tree is loaded with folks with ADD/Dyslexia and this can account for much of the impulsivity, reactivity, inappropriate comments, dancing etc. that we saw with this man. This can also account for much of this mans limited capacity for complex reasoning.

Under threat the “higher” areas of function are suppressed so that our organism can fight/flight. The glands secrete adrenaline and we are off to the races. Ditto with testosterone, our IQ is diminished by 10 points when we are aroused. This fact is of course used by hunters to shoot rutting deer and elk who drop their defenses in the pursuit of carnal pleasure.

Much of the folly of history can be traced to three flaws in human beings: Hubris, Fear leading to over-reaction and concrete, black/white thinking. Black/White thinking leads to simplistic thinking i.e. Fight when afraid and feed it by machismo fueled testosterone.

These reactions are what keep us locked in a “war on drugs” and a foreign policy that has relied on the use of military power to “solve” complex problems. The either/or, black/white thinking of “you are either with us or against us” is an excellent example of this sort of thing. Bush is a recovering alcoholic and fundamentalist Christian. This sort of rigid thinking is a hallmark of recovering alcoholics and Fundamentalists and Utopians of all stripes. Beware the “true believer” who is driven by ideology. There is no gray for these folks and pragmatic solutions are very hard to develop with these folks. This sort of thinking is of course not confined to the right of the political spectrum, it can also be found on the left in rigid, militant, rabidly political correct people who utterly lack the capacity to laugh at themselves. In the field of religion one finds fundamentalist, black/white, rigid thinking among the major dualistic religions including Christianity and the Muslim Religion.

Since these are human characteristics and you will find them cross culturally it is useful to consider how nations act like people.

Iflyfish

Barry A. - 3-8-2009 at 10:19 AM

Fish------

Correct me if I am going astray here, but it seems to me that you have just described the very type of people that run for office and win, or simply rise to power in other non-democratic countries-------That does not bode well for a solution any time soon, does it, as this must be true in every Nation on earth?

Barry

Iflyfish.

toneart - 3-8-2009 at 10:31 AM

Your posts here are brilliant and they explain a lot to we who are not scientifically educated. Your Foreign Policy Doctrine (Sarah Palin...did you get that?) is far better than the one that has sent our country on it's downward spiral. We (our Republic) have done it to ourselves, of course. And the Bushies went right ahead and did it without consulting you or me. Lord and his bureaucrats know I wrote to my representatives, but all I got in return were form letters...poor form at that.

If I were unscruplulous I would plagierize your posts and claim them as my own. :no::lol: I have decided, however, that you may speak for me.

It would seem that GWB heard the Tom Waits line, "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy", and got it backwards. :light: Can't that guy get anything right? (Sorry, Barry). :o

Barry A. - 3-8-2009 at 10:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by toneart
Your posts here are brilliant and they explain a lot to we who are not scientifically educated. Your Foreign Policy Doctrine (Sarah Palin...did you get that?) is far better than the one that has sent our country on it's downward spiral. We (our Republic) have done it to ourselves, of course. And the Bushies went right ahead and did it without consulting you or me. Lord and his bureaucrats know I wrote to my representatives, but all I got in return were form letters...poor form at that.

If I were unscruplulous I would plagierize your posts and claim them as my own. :no::lol: I have decided, however, that you may speak for me.

It would seem that GWB heard the Tom Waits line, "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy", and got it backwards. :light: Can't that guy get anything right? (Sorry, Barry). :o


Tony-------to me your political barbs are pointless, counterproductive, and I tune out when I see stuff like this----totally!

Iflyfish, on the otherhand, has presented here great, brilliant points, without the barbs, that make very good sense, to me.

I am sorry you chose to go down this road, Tony-----it is not like you.

Barry

Iflyfish - 3-8-2009 at 10:39 AM

Your hypothesis certainly has historical precedence. Throw in the occasional
Megalomaniac, Grandiose Narcissist and Sociopath and you pretty much have the mix. There are occasionally though people who are not corrupted by power and who genuinely have egalitarian motives and are not rigid in their approach toward governance.

Norte Americans generally don't trust deep thinkers and are wooed with simplistic rhetoric. Few people read enough to have thought through issues in any depth and so we have a populace easily swayed by the simple solutions presented for complex problems i.e. the Rush Limbaugh’s of the world who appeal to simplistic, black/white thinking. When we are afraid, simplistic solutions have the most appeal. When aroused by fear, most lack the capacity for complex analysis and move to reactivity. Those that can see this tendency in human beings are able to mold and manipulate the masses. See Machiavelli’s The Prince, The Art of War and Karl Rove for excellent examples of this.

Iflyfish

Barry A. - 3-8-2009 at 10:46 AM

Fish----again, well said.

I would add to your list the current crowd in the Administration as utilizing the knowledge of what people react too, namely fear.

I don't say that to criticise------just an observation. Your reference to "narcissists" also worries me.

Barry

Thank you, Don Jorge

TacoFeliz - 3-8-2009 at 11:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Don Jorge
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Have any of you guys got the feeling that now everything runs on fear?


Not in everything nor everywhere is fear running the show.

This morning I took a bike ride around the farm, the dogs running ahead in the north side shelterbelt looking for cottontails to chase. I looked south at the strawberry fields. I got off the bike walked a few rows checking strawberry plants for what a farmer checks a plant for: everything. The plants are healthy, crowns are splitting wildly, big blooms are pushing out, fruits s hanging in all shades of green, white and red.

I looked north to watch the dogs and across the fence is a sports park. In the baseball field were teenage boys dressed in Dodgers blue uniforms, playing catch, warming up their arms. The sound of of balls hitting leather mitts is in the air. Spring is almost here in So Cal. In Baja it is spring. Hope springs eternal in a farmers world and in Mexico too.

I have spent the last month mostly travelling in Mexico. Guadalajara is a big city now, globalized in a predictable manner, lost its charm for me. Tequila is a place I could hang for a few days. Globalized by a passion for agave liquor, good stuff, it still has a charm in and around it.

Yucatan, Quintana Roo. There it seems better than ever right now if you know where to go. Cancun is an airport, a great jumping in place for Campeche, Quintana Roo and Yucatan.

Just off what used to not be the beaten path are ruins, history, great food and great people from all over the world. Chilangos who escaped DF with their money, their prejudices and fortunately their recipes too! Canadian women married to Mayan men renting clean bungalows on a shore within sight of Belize and renting a panga to fish, snorkle or dive from.

An Austrian married to a Veracruz chica, combining work ethic y la alegre de una Veracruzana and can she ever cook. The fresh water shrimps they caught that day were so good. She bragged how nadien in the area knew how to catch shrimp, but her brother from Veracruz, of course he knew and did..

And me, a gringo born in LA travelling with a Chilanga. We meet more people, Argentinos y Italianos. Always a buen dia salutation from everyone. Gloabalization can work.

The simple things are more than simple, they are basic to happiness. Family, friends, good food, good coffee and even Nescafe sometimes too. Cold drinks on a hot day, gardening, fishing, hunting, cards, storytelling and just hanging out doing nothing are healthy for ones body and soul.

Baja taught many of us to enjoy these simple things. Slowly simplicity disappeared form our southern California neighborhoods over the course of the last 40 years but it remained largely intact in Baja and Mexico. Thus Baja and Mexico continue to remind me of what really matters.

Si se puede nene.


What a refreshing post. Clearly, there is still a lot to like about the world.

Bajafun777 - 3-8-2009 at 11:24 AM

Unfortunately for all of us both parties and politicians use fears,lies, self-serving interests to undermind us for their pocket books. Not everyone is losing in the Stock Market follow the money and you will quickly see a group that has made its fortunes over and over off the unrest in Countries not just the USA. Wall Street common investors rely on stable conditions to make their money work and this is not being done due to newspapers and news media doing their best to "Scream the Sky is Falling the Sky is Falling," as it sells more news papers. Just the way it is and will be since its all about the money and me me me!! We just have to weather through all of this B.S. and it will take anywhere from 2 at best to 3 year years to hopefully climb out of this mess. The stock market will go back up but when it does the stable effects will not be in place enough to keep it there and the roller coaster will ride in a downward fashion again until we do have a stable level of economic reality. Take your credit cards put them in a deep plastic holder with water freeze them and stay away from them until we climb out of this mess. I know it is hard to just turn off any use of credit cards as a number of hotels will give you a very hard time about renting a room unless you have one. Our world has been built on credit, corrupt politicians, fear running news stations and newspaper to gain the viewers, and the end result is us the taxpayer that bails them out at our expense. Not against giving a hand up but not a continued hand out is what I live by and have given many hours of helping nonprofit charities raise money to help others. Right now a lot of hard working people are being displaced by this economy, so nobody is immune as even retirement systems are at risk right along with Social Security. My thoughts and prayers are with everyone to come out of this better and stronger but we need to pull together like in World War II not against each other, just my views on these issues. Take care my fellow Nomads--------bajafun777

Oh RaspBarrys!

toneart - 3-8-2009 at 11:47 AM

"Barb" was my wicked stepmother,
my father, the Good Humor Man.
They turned out complex progeny
to roam The Neverland.

We show no fear,
We bear no hate.
In flight we dare
to celebrate.

Perhaps a tad of hubris
will get in the way.
But we are pranksters
who can make your day.

So open up and
come on down.
This clown will trick you
into losing that frown.
:bounce:
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