BajaNomad

Guadalupe Canyon -- water conditions?

n00ba - 3-12-2009 at 10:50 AM

Hi everybody. My first time here, hoping someone can help me.

I tried to book a campsite at Arturo's Campo in Guadalupe Canyon, but Canyonman Rob told me there is no water flowing to the tubs now. I booked at the other campground instead, Guadalupe Canyon Oasis, as Ruben Loya assured me that there was water; but now I'm starting to doubt that. Why would conditions be different from one campground to another?

Anybody been/heard anything recently about the springs? I searched on the boards but didn't find anything... we're supposed to leave Saturday morning, but we'll need to cancel our trip and our car rental if there's no water :(

Thanks for your help.

David K - 3-12-2009 at 05:32 PM

Family feud I think... what a tragedy!

We had fun there last Holloween weekend!:
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=35050

Welcome n00ba





[Edited on 3-13-2009 by David K]

desertcpl - 3-12-2009 at 06:21 PM

I would cancel the trip.. I wouldnt think for a moment , that the springs is only going to one camp ground,, as much as I like Baja,, some times you just cant trust what they are saying,, times are very hard for alot of folks and just looking to make a quick buck. I for one would not believe them

n00ba - 3-13-2009 at 07:19 AM

Thanks for your responses. Great photos, David K!

I decided to ask Canyonman Rob about water at Ernesto's place (Guad Canyon Oasis) and he said there IS water there, just not at Arturo's.

If there is a family feud (and I believe that there is after reading some of the posts in these forums) I don't see why Rob would tell me there's water at the other place if there's not.... nothing in it for him, right?

It is sad, but we've already put a deposit down, so we're going to go.

David K - 3-13-2009 at 07:35 AM

Please go over to see if Arturo is there and ask the reason why... They did fix the lines after the fire of Dec. '07, and we went in January and October of last year and all was fine.

wilderone - 3-13-2009 at 08:21 AM

Just a suggestion - what does it take besides lines? Maybe take some supplies down in case there's a technical problem. David, you'd probably know what he needs. Line and valves are cheap - maybe trade for part of your fees.

David K - 3-13-2009 at 06:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wilderone
Just a suggestion - what does it take besides lines? Maybe take some supplies down in case there's a technical problem. David, you'd probably know what he needs. Line and valves are cheap - maybe trade for part of your fees.


The system was working fine, so I doubt it is a pipe/ valve issue... which is easy repaired by Arturo's family (includes Canyonman Rob, his son-in-law)... Hotscott is the expert on Guadalupe of any Nomad...

As for 'working' on the system there (if that was the problem), I don't have an FM-3 work visa... But, my on-line advice is always free!:biggrin:

Mango - 3-13-2009 at 09:02 PM

I was there last year a few weeks after the fire and before David K's visit. There was plenty of water then and the palms were already coming back. Some sites were affected more than others.

If there truly is no water I would think it would be due to a natural cause. Spring drying up, fissure closing due to earthquake, etc..

However, It's Mexico... I always ask three different people for directions or advice and triangulate. The truth usually lies somewhere in between opposing businesses, factions, perceptions, or families.

arbee - 3-14-2009 at 10:01 AM

I heard that Ernesto paid taxes and Arturo didn't, and it's the government not allowing Arturo to take the water. Hopefully this will get straightened out soon.

David K - 3-15-2009 at 07:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by arbee
I heard that Ernesto paid taxes and Arturo didn't, and it's the government not allowing Arturo to take the water. Hopefully this will get straightened out soon.


The hot water pours out of the side of the mountain and PVC pipes direct it to the various camp sites and pools... on private Loya land... I don't see how the government has anything to do with this... If a valve to Arturo's side was closed... once the government truck leaves, it could just be re-opened. It's not like a water meter with a lock if you don't pay your bill.

http://vivabaja.com/405/




This is the only thing showing on the Guadalupe Canyon web site... sad!:

The Guadalupe Canyon

Website Is

Temporarily Down

Please Check

Back Soon




[Edited on 3-15-2009 by David K]

BAJACAT - 3-15-2009 at 02:01 PM

:?::?::?:

Is Arturo's camp really dry?

Enrique - 3-24-2009 at 02:43 PM

n00ba,

Did you end up going to Guadalupe Canyon? Is it really true that Arturo's camp is dry? I am planning a trip for next month for a large group and it would really help me if you could report back on your experience. Thanks

Enrique

HotSchott - 3-25-2009 at 08:05 AM

Based on a conversation I had several weeks ago with friends of the family, distribution of the water in the canyon has ceased to Arturo's campos. Ernesto, the elder brother who actually holds title to the land and the water has cut off the flow to Arturo. This dispute has been ongoing for several years and became complicated with the involvement of the Mexican government regarding water rights and payment for taxes of the same. Ultimately, Ernesto has decided eliminating the flow to Arturo's campos was what he wanted to do.

Additionally, I have heard that Arturo has developed advanced pancreatic cancer and is very ill. My prayers are for his family. I have over 25 years of fantastic memories of Guadalupe canyon and interacting with so many people. It is the end of an era which has been coming for several years. Like the lights from Mexicali that now illuminate the Southern sky every night, the changes are more obvious now. The desert is still there, but the peace and overwhelming tranquility that drew me there is slipping away.

$$

wilderone - 3-25-2009 at 08:29 AM

Ernesto's brother has pancreatic cancer and he chooses to cut off the means to his livelihood? With family like that, you don't need enemies.
My memories of Guadalupe Canyon - $10/nt., rustic open tubs where the water flowed all the time (you put a sock in the pipe to fill it up) - that's the Baja experience that makes memories. Si - the end of an era. Sad.

David K - 3-25-2009 at 08:39 AM

Very sad....

Arturo's side of the canyon is 1000 times better than the other... why doesn't the brother just... oh, never mind... it is Mexico and logic doesn't always work there...

Thanks for the word hotschott...

108 116r.JPG - 49kB

Enrique - 3-27-2009 at 07:49 PM

Thanks everyone. That is sad - we spent many good nights at the San Marcos site. Can anyone recommend alternative destinations with a similar profile (not too far from border, hot springs, scenic, etc.)? Thanks for your input.

David K - 3-28-2009 at 07:52 AM

There is NO place in Baja that is quite like Arturo's at Guadalupe Canyon... yet!

I was sure hoping for some development at Agua Caliente Canyon (Valle Chico) that was started a couple years ago... but is stalled, so it seems. Every time someone tries to investigate, the canyon has been locked closed! Perhaps growing pot up there again (2001 was the last time)?

Agua Caliente's hot spring is in a flash flood zone, not up high on the mountainside like at Guadalupe. See http://vivabaja.com/404 when jide and I camped there after meeting BajaLou at Parral and exploring other canyons.




A hot water stream, flowing out of the spring which is to the right, on the bench about 5 feet higher than the streambed. Water is so hot, that a hike of a hundred yards away is needed to find it not too hot to get wet in! A cool mountain stream is a hundred feet away, in the middle of the canyon floor... hot and cold running water! They both merge about 400 feet downsream from the hot spring.

[Edited on 3-28-2009 by David K]

baja-chris - 4-5-2009 at 12:58 AM

I emailed Canyonman Rob several days ago and never got a reply. We were thinking of just going down there mid-week without a reservation but sounds like a bad idea after reading this. Too bad.

What do you guys know about the hot springs outside Ensenada on the road to Ojos? Also there is a place south of Ensenada that has a billboard advertising hot springs and canopy tours. What's that all about?

David K - 4-5-2009 at 09:55 AM

(San Antonio) Hot Springs off Hwy 3 east of Ensenada, popular with locals... a while back Tim Walker visted and photographed the motel and facilities there... not impressed.

San Carlos Hot Springs off Hwy. 1, south of Ensenada at the golf course: See posts by BajaCat... many photos... busy place!

bajabound2005 - 4-5-2009 at 12:56 PM

http://www.lascanadas.com/ this is the one just south of Maneadero

http://web.ranchosancarlosensenada.com/index.php?lang=eng-US this is San Carlos near the Baja Country Club

There are also hot springs between Maneadero and Santo Tomas at Uruapan, run by the Ejido there.

wilderone - 4-6-2009 at 09:28 AM

True - there is no place like Guadalupe Canyon hotsprings. California's eastern sierra nevada's has a few free hotsprings, and some that are pretty cheap for day use. And free or cheap camping nearby. Research online. You won't regret a trip to Gila Wilderness with its $3 hotsprings and free camping, Anasazi ruins, hiking, birding.