BajaNomad

No more free camping

ligui - 3-16-2009 at 12:50 PM

I was on the phone to friends in ligui yesterday and was told that you must now pay 20 dollars a day to camp on ligui beach . I asked if there were any campers still on the beach and was told that they all have left .

Has any one heard of this happening else where ? :fire:

DENNIS - 3-16-2009 at 01:03 PM

They all arose from their beach chairs at once with a glazed look in their eyes and got into a U-Haul van last seen rolling north.....or was that south.

mtgoat666 - 3-16-2009 at 01:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ligui
I was on the phone to friends in ligui yesterday and was told that you must now pay 20 dollars a day to camp on ligui beach . I asked if there were any campers still on the beach and was told that they all have left .

Has any one heard of this happening else where ? :fire:


where did this occur?
freeloaders are freeloaders and capitalists are captalists -- they will seesaw until finding their groove and ying, yang and shamalingadingdong :lol:

there is a nice tent city in sacramento that is accepting freeloaders, no fee, and has soupo kitchen

susanna - 3-16-2009 at 01:41 PM

Please,,,,,,,, we don't need anymore in Sacramento.

norte - 3-16-2009 at 01:44 PM

David probably has the coordinates and review for you

DENNIS - 3-16-2009 at 01:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by susanna
Please,,,,,,,, we don't need anymore in Sacramento.


You're in a good position to tell Arnold to get a brain transplant and develop a new mantra....."QUIT SPENDING."

wilderone - 3-16-2009 at 02:04 PM

Probably trying to capitalize on and/or discourage the Easter Week crowd from Constitution, rather than deny access (which they can't do). Shame on them.

ligui - 3-16-2009 at 02:29 PM

Good old mexico , :P , wonder if villa group had any part of this ? Campers didn't spend much money while they there , but every little helped.

rhintransit - 3-16-2009 at 03:15 PM

it has happened at Rattlesnake and Free (Playa Libre) Beaches circa Pto Escondido also. Municipality of Loreto is collecting regularly every 14 days for the past month or more. no services, just fee for camping. there was some initial scuffling with Fonatur, which originally ordered everyone off the beaches when they found out, but apparently they backed down. Loreto claims they have authority to do that. some campers have been told that they will be given a long stay break. nothing as yet on that. many people have left. will this be enforced Semana Santa? (am not holding my breath)

ligui - 3-16-2009 at 05:03 PM

Good thing to scare off the campers , they'll head home early and spend less money in mexico. Great for locals .... guess they never learn. :?:

pelone - 3-16-2009 at 05:19 PM

It seems that some folks, whether in US of A or Mexico, expect free access to what they think is rightly theirs. Our National parks fees and trail fee systems have become a reality. Why put down land owners and others in Mexico from making some money off of their properties? Perhaps the fees will motivate the free-loaders to utilize the RV offerings of hard working Mexicans. Most of the small communities in Mexico have beach access for a fee-I am thinking of Cabo Pulmo specifically.

DENNIS - 3-16-2009 at 05:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pelone
It seems that some folks, whether in US of A or Mexico, expect free access to what they think is rightly theirs. Our National parks fees and trail fee systems have become a reality. Why put down land owners and others in Mexico from making some money off of their properties? Perhaps the fees will motivate the free-loaders to utilize the RV offerings of hard working Mexicans. Most of the small communities in Mexico have beach access for a fee-I am thinking of Cabo Pulmo specifically.



Good points. Remember the ol' saying.. "they're ain't no free lunch,"..and, they're ain't. Are these campers needy? Are they without means to legitimize themselves in Mexico?
I'm embarrased for my own if these people are imported indigents.
What's up here?

ligui - 3-16-2009 at 05:36 PM

No one has a problem with paying a reasonable fee when they know that is expected . But when you are camped on a public beach where you have been coming for years , while you are helping out the locals with spending some money in their area , and someone unexpectedly comes looking for 20 dollars a night .

Know thanks , .... it will more likely be put in their pockets and they don't own the beach . If i camped on private land , you pay.

And what in the h..l is wrong with a free camping spot , they seem to be able to drain my wallet before i get home. If you want to camp in a RV park in town do so , some of us like the beach .

Paula - 3-16-2009 at 05:57 PM

Don Alley posting on Paula's account:

A neighbor who works for the municipio of Loreto told us a couple of weeks ago that the municipio will charge this fee to beach campers in the municipio. Ligui, Rattlesnake, Juncalito, etc. So I think it may be the city that's collecting the fees.

mtgoat666 - 3-16-2009 at 06:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ligui
No one has a problem with paying a reasonable fee when they know that is expected . But when you are camped on a public beach where you have been coming for years , while you are helping out the locals with spending some money in their area , and someone unexpectedly comes looking for 20 dollars a night .

Know thanks , .... it will more likely be put in their pockets and they don't own the beach . If i camped on private land , you pay.

And what in the h..l is wrong with a free camping spot , they seem to be able to drain my wallet before i get home. If you want to camp in a RV park in town do so , some of us like the beach .


Imperialist gringos want most everything for free, and if asked to pay for it, dang yankees are only willing to pay mexican peasant wages, desiring to keep the yoke of represssion on the backs of mexican labor, desiring to live in bourgeouis comfort built on the backs of the proletariat.

ligui - 3-16-2009 at 06:10 PM

How many nomads have camped in mexico , did you all pay the yoke repression ?

DENNIS - 3-16-2009 at 06:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666

Imperialist gringos want most everything for free, and if asked to pay for it, dang yankees are only willing to pay mexican peasant wages, desiring to keep the yoke of represssion on the backs of mexican labor, desiring to live in bourgeouis comfort built on the backs of the proletariat.


Thank you, Carlos Marquez.
You do have a valid point. Mine is that the days of free anything on the coastline are long gone. Looking for that secluded spot to enjoy your private life is over in Baja. Somebody controls everything. In the old days, nobody claimed ownership of land....it was worthless to even the legal owner. Today, it's priceless and if one wants to camp out on it, it'll cost something. This isn't the wilderness anymore.
The best part of Baja these days is your memories. Some people even try to sell those. Are they wrong?

mtgoat666 - 3-16-2009 at 06:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666

Imperialist gringos want most everything for free, and if asked to pay for it, dang yankees are only willing to pay mexican peasant wages, desiring to keep the yoke of represssion on the backs of mexican labor, desiring to live in bourgeouis comfort built on the backs of the proletariat.


Thank you, Carlos Marquez.
You do have a valid point. Mine is that the days of free anything on the coastline are long gone. Looking for that secluded spot to enjoy your private life is over in Baja. Somebody controls everything. In the old days, nobody claimed ownership of land....it was worthless to even the legal owner. Today, it's priceless and if one wants to camp out on it, it'll cost something. This isn't the wilderness anymore.
The best part of Baja these days is your memories. Some people even try to sell those. Are they wrong?


well, much of my message was in jest, but the serious part is that some gringos are mistakenly self-righteous when they insist all should be free or pennies in Mexico.
dk's dirt island is still free camping!!

anywho, when I pay US $20/nite for camping, i do expect trash service and water availability

DENNIS - 3-16-2009 at 06:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666

anywho, when I pay US $20/nite for camping, i do expect trash service


Giving or getting?:lol::lol::lol: Just kiddin', goat. I appreciate your take on this.

David K - 3-16-2009 at 06:47 PM

That's funny, Dennis!

abreojos - 3-16-2009 at 06:53 PM

Maybe they want a little extra money so they can come camp where you live for free!
Quote:
Originally posted by ligui
No one has a problem with paying a reasonable fee when they know that is expected . But when you are camped on a public beach where you have been coming for years , while you are helping out the locals with spending some money in their area , and someone unexpectedly comes looking for 20 dollars a night .

Know thanks , .... it will more likely be put in their pockets and they don't own the beach . If i camped on private land , you pay.

And what in the h..l is wrong with a free camping spot , they seem to be able to drain my wallet before i get home. If you want to camp in a RV park in town do so , some of us like the beach .

KurtG - 3-16-2009 at 07:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666

Imperialist gringos want most everything for free, and if asked to pay for it, dang yankees are only willing to pay mexican peasant wages, desiring to keep the yoke of represssion on the backs of mexican labor, desiring to live in bourgeouis comfort built on the backs of the proletariat.


Thank you, Carlos Marquez.
You do have a valid point. Mine is that the days of free anything on the coastline are long gone. Looking for that secluded spot to enjoy your private life is over in Baja.


What crap, there are many absolutely beautiful empty beaches they are just not within sight of Hwy 1. But you have to find them for yourself, I'm not giving directions.

DENNIS - 3-16-2009 at 07:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by abreojos
Maybe they want



Maybe "they" do. Why not? It's theirs. Try this entitlement attitude in the Sierras of California and I'll send you a bail bondsman.

DENNIS - 3-16-2009 at 07:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by KurtG
What crap, there are many absolutely beautiful empty beaches they are just not within sight of Hwy 1. But you have to find them for yourself, I'm not giving directions.


You don't have to. When the time comes, they'll find you. Watch the economy improve and watch the cancer of development move south and eat up your secret spot, then, remember this conversation.
I was here when Pancho Fisher was selling Fisher family holdings in Cabo...three hundred bucks a lot, on the water, before the fideicomiso. Who knew.

Enjoy your private place, Kurt. Watch the financial news and react accordingly. Nothing is forever.

abreojos - 3-16-2009 at 07:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by abreojos
Maybe they want



Maybe "they" do. Why not? It's theirs. Try this entitlement attitude in the Sierras of California and I'll send you a bail bondsman.


Exactly my point!

woody with a view - 3-16-2009 at 07:19 PM

i can appreciate kurt's point of view.

all the easy pickins have been plucked. now it all depends on how bad you want it! i have a "too good to be true" offer from a friend. i wish i knew someone who could tell me more than, "don't pay (i'm not talking investment!) more than you can afford to lose."

u2u if you have some wisdom to share and i'll try to describe the offer.

DENNIS - 3-16-2009 at 07:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by abreojos

Exactly my point!


Amen. I should have paid closer attention. Sorry and thanks.

DENNIS - 3-16-2009 at 07:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by woody in ob

u2u if you have some wisdom to share and i'll try to describe the offer.


Give us a teaser, Woody. What are you talking about.

woody with a view - 3-16-2009 at 07:35 PM

good friends offered to sell me a spot? for $???.?? (less than $1000). when i hummed and hawed they quickly said they'd GIVE me a spot near their casita (for lack of a better term). they say the ejido GAVE the area to the matron of the family and it has been recorded in DF.

that's where we left off last time.

does the ejido GIVE parcels to people and is it worth the paper it's wriiten on? i probably would keep a trailer there to have when we arrive and pull it to the beach or just keep our stuff in it.

ideas?

DENNIS - 3-16-2009 at 07:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by woody in ob
does the ejido GIVE parcels to people and is it worth the paper it's wriiten on? i



No..and no. It must be "titled"...a legal necessity. If the seller has no title, the land can't be transfered.

Be careful of this...in Mexico, it's on the buyer to protect himself. Seems there's no law against selling Brooklyn Bridges.
Thanks, Woody.

Baja&Back - 3-16-2009 at 09:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Paula
Don Alley posting on Paula's account:

A neighbor who works for the municipio of Loreto told us a couple of weeks ago that the municipio will charge this fee to beach campers in the municipio. Ligui, Rattlesnake, Juncalito, etc. So I think it may be the city that's collecting the fees.


It IS the city of Loreto charging - 194 pesos for four nights, not one night. I have been shown the official receipt issued by the city.

PabloS - 3-16-2009 at 09:16 PM

Ligui: No doubt the Municipality of Loreto will be building baños and provide agua fresca for the campers:bounce::spingrin::wow:

Packoderm - 3-16-2009 at 09:21 PM

It's not necessarily the no charge that I like about free camping. It's the lack of development and people poking around that I like. At some point, the only free camping worth talking about will be boat-in camping.

BajaNuts - 3-16-2009 at 09:54 PM

and where one boat can come in, so can another............

privacy??? maybe, until the next kayak rounds the point...

Bajafun777 - 3-16-2009 at 10:01 PM

So many miles of beaches in Mexico and finding areas without people is still very much possible. They can collect from what they do not see but camping and long term living are two completely different things. Anything long term I want to pay and have the sewer, water, and some sense of security, so when you leave to go somewhere at least half of your stuff should be there once you return:spingrin:.Later-----bajafun777

Leo - 3-16-2009 at 10:34 PM

Free camping on the beach; such a hot topic and rightly so. 20 $ and no services is rediculus, but free camping on a spot comparable to paradise (anybody been there?) is same.
Find a happy medium. Loretto should stay out if it if it doesn't offer any utilities at Liugy? beach. I was there once, just the road would keep sane people out, but once there, it's paradise found as long as you are self-contained.

shari - 3-17-2009 at 08:03 AM

we have all had to find new free spots over the years...havent we. But there are hundreds of remote beaches yet to be camped on...maybe not so close to town, or the highway...but those are getting more dangerous anyway.
Sorry your dream beach has changed it's tune but maybe this will lead you to a new even dreamier beach!!! They ARE out there....just a little further out there.

wilderone - 3-17-2009 at 08:54 AM

"Try this entitlement attitude in the Sierras of California and I'll send you a bail bondsman."

UTTER CRAP. Ever hear of BLM land? It's God-given PUBLIC land and most of it is available to camp on FREE. I know the Sierra Nevada's very well - I never pay to camp. There are free campgrounds actually listed online everywhere - posted for everyone's benefit - most of them on federal land. I've camped on 2 islands in Hawaii for a week free; Utah all over FREE. And Baja - OF COURSE - free camping - are you kidding? Any pristine beach anywhere without a manmade abomination in sight is paradise - and thank God there are still plenty. Where mankind has made a mess of things because of their ignorance, we've turned into National Parks and now charge $20. Imperialist? Capitalist? Your political identities are like blinders - keeping your focus so narrow you skew reality.

KurtG - 3-17-2009 at 09:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
we have all had to find new free spots over the years...havent we. But there are hundreds of remote beaches yet to be camped on...maybe not so close to town, or the highway...but those are getting more dangerous anyway.
Sorry your dream beach has changed it's tune but maybe this will lead you to a new even dreamier beach!!! They ARE out there....just a little further out there.


Shari,
Thats exactly my point, before the highway Santispac and Coyote were "remote" beaches" now if I want solitude I have to go a little further but there will always be undeveloped beaches all around Baja just as there are here where I live in California if one makes a little more effort to get to them. As to paying for beach camping, it has never bothered me over the years to pay $4-6/night to camp on a nice beach. Sounds like that is what Loreto is charging. I will confess that I miss the days when I could camp on the beaches between San Jose del Cabo and San Lucas but times do change. There are still great free places to camp in East Cape but not like old days, just have to look a little harder. Its now been 35 years since I first aimed a motorcycle down Baja and actually it has changed far less than I expected over that time. I remember being with friends at Santispac back then and remarking that "we had better enjoy it now since there will be a Sheraton here in ten years." Despite years of constant development rumors it hasn't happened and in fact there are fewer campers around Bahia Concepcion than 20 years ago.

When I left Asuncion after Semana Santa two years ago I rode south and was riding the salt flats into La Bocana, it was a perfect warm day with a little tail wind and incredible views across the estuary mouth with the breakers beyond. I was riding standing up on the pegs and thought to myself that I would happily ride a couple of hundred miles of back roads to enjoy that perfect moment. Thats what Baja is still about for me after all these years, I refuse to get into b-tch mode about changes cause there's still too many great places left to explore.

And thats all I've got to say about that--
Kurt

shari - 3-17-2009 at 09:51 AM

I find it fascinating that over the last couple of years we have met many many baja oficianados who have travelled "all up and down" the peninsula...but had NEVER been out here! Just an example of the hundreds of secret beaches many nomads have never been to.

Just a thought on camping while I'm at it...you can camp almost anywhere around here but camping within sight of a road sometimes brings unwanted "company" that can make your stay unpleasant. One positive thing about camping in a campground is safety, not to mention the showers and bathrooms, internet etc...we are in the process of setting up a nice camping area so people can camp safely, close to the ammenities etc. I agree with the point that if ejidos start to charge for camping without providing services...well...maybe the local campgrounds will do better...these people have spent money trying to provide services and some complain about paying to camp....geez.

Mexitron - 3-17-2009 at 10:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Packoderm
It's not necessarily the no charge that I like about free camping. It's the lack of development and people poking around that I like. At some point, the only free camping worth talking about will be boat-in camping.


Exactly!

shari - 3-17-2009 at 10:44 AM

We have been camping in a secret spot around the agua verde area for many years and go there now with the thought that it may be fenced/private/not free so we prepare to panga camp if needs be. we have scoped out some good spots just in case.

David K - 3-17-2009 at 10:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
I find it fascinating that over the last couple of years we have met many many baja oficianados who have travelled "all up and down" the peninsula...but had NEVER been out here! Just an example of the hundreds of secret beaches many nomads have never been to.

Just a thought on camping while I'm at it...you can camp almost anywhere around here but camping within sight of a road sometimes brings unwanted "company" that can make your stay unpleasant. One positive thing about camping in a campground is safety, not to mention the showers and bathrooms, internet etc...we are in the process of setting up a nice camping area so people can camp safely, close to the ammenities etc. I agree with the point that if ejidos start to charge for camping without providing services...well...maybe the local campgrounds will do better...these people have spent money trying to provide services and some complain about paying to camp....geez.


Yup... lot's of trips but often back to the same favorite places... or in Norte because of time limits. However, in 2007 we checked out the remote Pacific 'Seven Sisters' coast and some of the Vizcaino peninsula (Asuncion & Abreojos). Met Shari and Juan that trip: http://vivabaja.com/707

vandy - 3-18-2009 at 03:29 PM

Of course, you are all forgetting the wonderful possibilities of private land.
Many duenos love to have their beaches "watched" by a nice group of gringos.

Get out there and talk to some locals. I, for one, would NEVER pay to camp.
When there are hot showers, clean banos, trash pickup and internet service, I am no longer camping.

ligui - 3-18-2009 at 03:45 PM

vandy , so right .... time to go camping again , thanks for the reminder

Fred - 3-18-2009 at 04:19 PM

It seems to me that no matter if you stay in a campgound, camp for free on the beach or someone comes by to collect for camping on the beach I always go home broke. Crossed back into the USA many times with no US money and less than 20 pesos. They are going to get my money one way or another. Just as long as I can buy cold beer I am happy.

ligui - 3-18-2009 at 05:00 PM

Ditto , DItto.............................:cool:.........:bounce:

squintingringo - 3-18-2009 at 07:57 PM

When someone builds a house on a view lot, lives there for years enjoying the view, he somehow thinks he owns the view. Somebody builds a house in front of him and he cries like hell.

Duh... if you love the view so much, buy it. When somebody else owns it, they have a right to do what they want with it.

Most of the Ejiditarios in Baja have next to nothing besides their property in the Ejido. And that land, as their only resource, returns nothing to them. Its not tillable or, in many cases, even liveable. But some of the lucky ones have the advantage of having waterfront property. Its hard to blame them if they try to make a buck off it. Especially when they watch the Gringos come year after year with their expensive gear and use their property, leaving behind garbage and terrain torn up by off road toys.

Many of these land owners would like to sell and could make much better use of the income from a sale than they ever will be able to make off the land with their inability to make it produce income. But most don't know how to go about it in a way that will guarantee that they make a fair deal and collect their money. As much as Gringos fear the process of buying Ejido land, the Ejiditarios carry the same fear of getting ripped off and often think they will have to pay a lot of money up front to make the sale.

There are still hundreds of miles of coastline in Baja with nothing but jeep track to show anyone's ever been there. I spend lots of time on those tracks and my wife and I have camped where the only visitors we've had in three or four days were coyotes and jack rabbits. We spend most of our time in northern Baja, but have done the same all the way down the west coast and parts of the east side. We have bought several parcels from Ejidos, converted the certificado parcelarios to titles and changed the property to dominio pleno. And some of the folks we've bought from are our best friends. We've helped some of them start businesses and build houses for their families with the income and we all benefited. They turned their property into resources they can use, while we have some great investments and will always have our own private campgrounds.

[Edited on 3-19-2009 by squintingringo]

wilderone - 3-30-2009 at 03:56 PM

Free beach access at Ensenada Blanca during Semana Santa week and is a public beach like all the beaches.

"El libre acceso a playa Ensenada Blanca está garantizado durante este periodo de vacaciones de Semana Santa, así lo señaló el día de ayer Mario Cortés, representante de Villa Group, empresa propietaria del predio.

En entrevista con El Sudcaliforniano, señaló que lo que suceda en la zona federal marítimo terrestre y en el terreno donde se piensa iniciar la construcción de un hotel, ya será responsabilidad de las autoridades como SEMARNAT, PROFEPA y Parque Nacional Bahía de Loreto.

Explicó que serán las autoridades, las que también deben garantizar que se instalen letrinas, que se brinde el servicio de recolección de basura y que se mantenga el orden y seguridad de los paseantes.

Por nuestra parte, comentó, esperamos que los ciudadanos que escojan esta playa para pasar sus días de Semana Mayor, lo hagan con completa civilidad, evitando ocasionar daños a los ecosistemas y no destruir la flora que existe en este sector, como sucedió el año pasado.

Mario Cortés apuntó que Villa Group está en la mejor disposición de brindar el libre acceso por sus predios, sin que ello signifique que se puedan introducir vehículos.

Ensenada Blanca es pública como todas las playas, pero es importante que autoridades, sociedad e iniciativa privada, nos pongamos de acuerdo para disfrutar de los espacios sin causar daño alguno."

Don Alley - 3-30-2009 at 05:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wilderone
Free beach access at Ensenada Blanca during Semana Santa week and is a public beach like all the beaches.

"El libre acceso a playa Ensenada Blanca está garantizado durante este periodo de vacaciones de Semana Santa, así lo señaló el día de ayer Mario Cortés, representante de Villa Group, empresa propietaria del predio.

En entrevista con El Sudcaliforniano, señaló que lo que suceda en la zona federal marítimo terrestre y en el terreno donde se piensa iniciar la construcción de un hotel, ya será responsabilidad de las autoridades como SEMARNAT, PROFEPA y Parque Nacional Bahía de Loreto.

Explicó que serán las autoridades, las que también deben garantizar que se instalen letrinas, que se brinde el servicio de recolección de basura y que se mantenga el orden y seguridad de los paseantes.

Por nuestra parte, comentó, esperamos que los ciudadanos que escojan esta playa para pasar sus días de Semana Mayor, lo hagan con completa civilidad, evitando ocasionar daños a los ecosistemas y no destruir la flora que existe en este sector, como sucedió el año pasado.

Mario Cortés apuntó que Villa Group está en la mejor disposición de brindar el libre acceso por sus predios, sin que ello signifique que se puedan introducir vehículos.

Ensenada Blanca es pública como todas las playas, pero es importante que autoridades, sociedad e iniciativa privada, nos pongamos de acuerdo para disfrutar de los espacios sin causar daño alguno."


I wonder if Mario Cortes is the guy that kicked us off the beach in front of the Villas Groupconstruction area, on the pretense that dogs are not allowed on the "protected" beaches of Loreto.

bajachris - 3-30-2009 at 08:30 PM

Beach camping in Baja is a victim of its own popularity and campers behaving badly. When hundreds or even thousands of people camp at a spot annually it is only a matter of time before the Mexicans who own the land get tired of cleaning up trash, feces and dealing with drunks and realize they can make more money over the short haul by selling the land and building houses. When these spots become privatized some campers get peey and make problems for property owners by behaving badly and acting like they are entitled to continue doing what they have done for years. This results in fences going up and enforcement of federal zone laws by property owners which eliminates the campers. I have seen this as a camper and a property owner first hand.

My first free camping experience in Baja was at K-38. 30 years ago you could camp on the beach within an hour of the boarder. Property values have changed all that. I have loved camping in Baja but times are changing and I can longer camp in some of the places I used to. In those place I have either bought property or moved on. This trend will not change so we must all take advantage of the spots that are still available to us while we can.

Beach access by vehicle through private property in not a right. By foot yes, car no.