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NAFTA BROKEN

comitan - 3-22-2009 at 12:37 PM

Here is a site of what it will cost the US banning Mexican truckers all 98 of them.

http://mexicotrucker.com/the-extreme-cost-of-mexican-tariffs...

Pescador - 3-22-2009 at 01:19 PM

But you expect the idiots in Washington to be logical and think?

DENNIS - 3-22-2009 at 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
Here is a site of what it will cost the US banning Mexican truckers all 98 of them.

Wiley....Where in the world did you find this site? It must have been put together by the ghost of Cesar Chavez.
Maybe the U.S. should raise tariffs on some of their oil or better yet, tax the remittances or, even way better yet, put up that fence.

bajalou - 3-22-2009 at 01:38 PM

Dennis - why is it so hard for you to accept that the US doesn't honor the treaties it signs?

The world court has ruled against the US but who cares? We'll just do it our way and screw you.

Safety is just a smoke screen for protectionism regarding the trucks.

DENNIS - 3-22-2009 at 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
Dennis - why is it so hard for you to accept that the US doesn't honor the treaties it signs?

Hard for me to accept? :lol:

I give these mistakes the fifteen year rule...you know...just like when you drop food on the floor. Catch it in time and you don't have to live with it.
Why should I care one bit about how our honor stands up with Mexico when, for how many years?, Mexico has ignored our laws at the border and in fact encouraged her people to do the same. When did all this honor and obey crap become an acceptable one way street to U.S. citizens. It's shameful that we don't demand an equitable regard for each others laws and commitments but, it's not just us.

oldlady - 3-22-2009 at 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
Dennis - why is it so hard for you to accept that the US doesn't honor the treaties it signs?

The world court has ruled against the US but who cares? We'll just do it our way and screw you.

Safety is just a smoke screen for protectionism regarding the trucks.

According to the Federal Register, funding for the demonstration project was appropriated in 2007.

The Omnibus Bill, just signed into law, prohibits the project from receiving any funding and brings it and the trucks to a halt. If there were saftey issues, this Congress and Administration did not want to spend any money to resolve them.
This change is consistent with expectations set by Vice President Biden in his speech to the union leaders in Miami
on March 5. The transcript in easily obtained.

[Edited on 3-22-2009 by oldlady]

Bajahowodd - 3-22-2009 at 03:01 PM

It's basically the Teamsters lobby that killed this. Where were the other unions when millions of American jobs went overseas? Oh. That's right. They had been ground down from Reagan forward.

[Edited on 3-22-2009 by Bajahowodd]

rpleger - 3-22-2009 at 03:38 PM

A real disgrace and We will have to pay for it in higher prices...

CaboRon - 3-22-2009 at 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
Dennis - why is it so hard for you to accept that the US doesn't honor the treaties it signs?

Hard for me to accept? :lol:

Why's that?

Dave - 3-22-2009 at 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rpleger
A real disgrace and We will have to pay for it in higher prices...

You mean down here, right? People will just buy Mexican. Prices for U.S. goods are always 10-15% higher. Even when they're supposedly covered by NAFTA. :mad:

I've looked at the list and there's nothing that Mexico can't do without. It's not like they're boycotting Buchanan's Scotch.

JESSE - 3-22-2009 at 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
Dennis - why is it so hard for you to accept that the US doesn't honor the treaties it signs?

Hard for me to accept? :lol:

Encouraged how? facts, show facts, not just cheap talk.

bajabound2005 - 3-22-2009 at 09:24 PM

This list of things (not the list itself, but the taxes) hurt the Mexicans WAY more than the Americans! Come on! SOY SAUCE??? Geez, where does THAT come from...same place as the pencils! Hecho en China.

EnseNADAslim - 3-22-2009 at 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
The world court has ruled against the US but who cares? We'll just do it our way and screw you.
Safety is just a smoke screen for protectionism regarding the trucks.

The World Court! :lol:

Are you frigging kidding me! :lol:

Yea, we should just do it our way and screw them. That's the last thing we need is the "World"Court telling us what to do,,,,just like the united nations. :lol:

I think it was last year, or the year before when that truck exploded under the under pass on I-5 just beyond the Valley,,,guess what,,,,yea, it was a truck from Mexico. The Safety issue is not a smoke screen,,,have you ever seen the conditions of some of these trucks and their tires?
The World Court! :lol:

DENNIS - 3-22-2009 at 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Encouraged how? facts, show facts, not just cheap talk.

That's the same lame denial of reality that your government wallows in. How about the simple minded funny books that guide the courageous migrant through the hardships of their northern passage, even explaining how to deal with La Migra in a nonconfrontational way so as to be quickly returned and restart the process of going to the vile north to earn those remittances?
Or, in your implausible denial of the facts which you demand, are you suggesting that your government is more concerned with moral over monetary values?

Even you couldn't be that naive.....could you?

CaboRon - 3-22-2009 at 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Encouraged how? facts, show facts, not just cheap talk.

Nothing has changed .....

Mexico is still ...
......................................

And striving for fourth world statis :lol:

Bajahowodd - 3-22-2009 at 11:19 PM

Slim- maybe you havre better info about the truck being from Mexico. I wasn't aware that it was a Mexican truck. But, a couple of things need to be considered. Whoever was the owner/ driver of the truck, it was a case of excessive speed. Nothing about sub-par equipment. Second, that particular spot is a Caltrans nightmare. They should never have approved that long, curved tunnel.

America, the fair, moral nation!

nancyinpdx - 3-23-2009 at 03:11 AM

That's the same lame denial of reality that your government wallows in.
Or, in your implausible denial of the facts which you demand, are you suggesting that your government is more concerned with moral over monetary values?

Even you couldn't be that naive.....could you?

Nothing has changed.... the U.S.A is still stuck on stupid.

We blame Mexico on some of OUR problems and their ppl are hurt by stuff that we do and that's more our fault than theirs. But this is the good ol' arrogant (our sheet don't stink), double-standard, hypocritical, bully U.S. of A, the great moral country (or was that 'Satan'?)...

I sometimes have a small bit of grudging respect for a coupla nations that don't habitually kiss our arse just cuz we can kick theirs.

We already have most of the 2nd Berlin wall built in case you didn't know...

We Americans can walk into Mx without showing any documents, smuggle anything in, not get FMT documents, overstay, live there illegally, ignore or skirt Mexico's laws, offer mordidas if we get in trouble, look down on Mexico when we visit or live there but that's ok!!! ¡Viva the ugly American! I'm sooo proud! Yay!!!

DENNIS - 3-23-2009 at 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nancyinpdx
We already have most of the 2nd Berlin wall built in case you didn't know...

That's like having most of the leak repaired in the Titanic.

DENNIS - 3-23-2009 at 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nancyinpdx
We Americans can live there illegally

I can only imagine that you are deaf, dumb [for certain] and blind or you need a little window installed in your belly so you can see out to the big, real world. How do you breathe with your head stuck so far up there?

You guys fight it out. I'll get my waders

Dave - 3-23-2009 at 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Encouraged how? facts, show facts, not just cheap talk.

That's the same lame denial of reality that your government wallows in.

There's enough deenile on both sides to fill the Grand Canyon.

bacquito - 3-23-2009 at 01:18 PM

I have to agree that we renigged on our agreement with Mexico. Was there any incidents of crashes or poorly maintained trucks to cause us to reject Mexico trucks entering the U.S.? I fear a trade war and further bad relations.

We did WHAT?

Dave - 3-23-2009 at 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bacquito
I have to agree that we renigged

You be in big troubles now. :rolleyes:

bacquito - 3-23-2009 at 01:29 PM

Quote:

0oops, I did not realize there was an incident with a Mexican truck. But, I think that one incident does not justify our rejection of Mexican trucks in the U.S.

BajaGringo - 3-23-2009 at 01:31 PM

The fight and blame game seems to be the method that government in general wants to keep us in to avoid anybody looking deeper for the real (and very ugly) reasons as to what is really happening around us IMHO.

But what do I know...

tripledigitken - 3-23-2009 at 01:39 PM

Don't worry Obama will fix it...............after he fixes the bank problem, the housing crisis, global warming, the health care system, taxes certain individuals he deems appropriate, gets rid of SUV's and replaces them with plug ins, etc, etc, etc.

Ken

BajaGringo - 3-23-2009 at 01:55 PM

I agree Ken that there is much with what Obama is doing that I don't agree with - but to ignore the hole the other side of the aisle dug and tossed us into is turning a blind eye. I blame them both for this mess and we are ultimately to blame for letting both sides play us against each other while Rome was being torched.

But again, what do I know...

tripledigitken - 3-23-2009 at 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
I agree Ken that there is much with what Obama is doing that I don't agree with - but to ignore the hole the other side of the aisle dug and tossed us into is turning a blind eye. I blame them both for this mess and we are ultimately to blame for letting both sides play us against each other while Rome was being torched.

But again, what do I know...

BG,

I haven't said a work of support of "the other side", or ignoring what occured in the last 8 years. It was just an offhand remark of an agenda that his own party is beginning to see is over ambitious, ill conceived, and will likely bankrupt our country.

Ken

BajaGringo - 3-23-2009 at 02:06 PM

Sorry Ken, I can see how my comment may have seemed to have been directed at you when in reality I was speaking over your shoulder to some of the other comments I have been reading of late in the related threads here that seem more focused on party politics than the reality of the true mess we are in...

tripledigitken - 3-23-2009 at 02:09 PM

No problem BG.

Peace, Love and Fish Tacos!

Skip_Mac - 3-23-2009 at 02:11 PM

OH Come on. The "NAFTA" agreements were an end run around the WTO which was actively collapsing at the time. They have been collapsing since Seattle 1999! They totally collapsed at the CANCUN action! Without international legal and political support for the WTO...the basic assumptions in NAFTA were bound to fail. The short term posturings of "trade war" and "immigration war" are sideshows. Economic recovery will wipe them from the news media attention. (PS....I AM NOT PREDICTING THE RECOVERY TIMING)

Cross border trade, immigration, prescription drug and medical tourism will continue...despite the short term difficulties between the official and unofficial governments on each side of the border. The posturing is largely a brief circus for the media. The people on both sides are mostly good...that's where countries really meet and make the important exchanges.

I don't buy the passionate paranoid rhetoric of the highly emotional few.

I'm goin' back to get me some salsa chili arbol and fresh caught Yellowtail. PS...I was looking for Herndez Salsa Clili Arbol in the Bay Area... not being successful on the market shelves, I tried their website and found out that Herndez is HORMEL (also found out that they have a terrible pseudo-Mexican website and rude corporate staffers.)

Please, can any Norte Americanio readers suggest a reasonable substitute (I really got addicted on my last trip to BCS...and I made the mistake of giving away most of the stock I brought back... I prefer to patronize Mexican producers for Mexican products.

BajaDove - 3-23-2009 at 03:55 PM

"If it ain't broke don't fix it" Now it's broke maybe we can fix it.

nancyinpdx - 3-23-2009 at 07:18 PM

:rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

I can only imagine that you are deaf, dumb [for certain] and blind or you need a little window installed in your belly so you can see out to the big, real world. How do you breathe with your head stuck so far up there?

DENNIS - 3-23-2009 at 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nancyinpdx
:rolleyes:

I'm absolutly devastated by your reply. I'll know frrom now on that I shouldn't mess with you.

comitan - 3-23-2009 at 07:57 PM

Dennis

I hope you realize that a lot of thought went into that posting, If you look and analyze the posting says a lot!!!!!! :spingrin:

CaboRon - 3-23-2009 at 08:14 PM

JESSE - 3-23-2009 at 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Encouraged how? facts, show facts, not just cheap talk.

Lets see, its legal and lawful in Mexico to go anywhere you want (including other nations), and we are supposed to change our constitution to make you happy?

I have seen and read the guide, and it clearly advices people to use legal means in order to travel to other countries, in fact, its the 1st thing the guide mentions. It also tells migrants to check with their local consulate in order to realize the legal consecuences of entering the nation illegally. Basically, it tells you not to do it, to first get informed about the legal consecuences of doing it before you decide. And makes it clear that theres legal means even for laborers to enter the US.

AFTER that, it says, "for those that unfortunatelly decide to go ahead and do it" and then proceeds to offer all the problems and dangers they can encounter, clearly trying to convince migrants not to do it.

It says to not use illegal papers
Not to lie to INS agents
Not to use fake names
Not to resist arrest
Not to insult or argue with agents
Not to run
Not to hide
Not to cross roads and highways

Yeah, it clearly is an effort of the Mexican goverment to get people to go there.

This another one of those lies that has spread by people that havent actually read the guide, or have choosen to ignore most facts.

JESSE - 3-23-2009 at 10:57 PM

By the way, most here know that i blame both the Mex and US goverment for this problem. One for taking advantage of it, and the other for pretending they dont need it while opening the doors to get people to come in.

Bajahowodd - 3-23-2009 at 11:04 PM

All I know, is that years ago the term renigged, was when Pat Riley sent in the bench. Really sorry.

DENNIS - 3-23-2009 at 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
This another one of those lies that has spread by people that havent actually read the guide, or have choosen to ignore most facts.

NO!!!!!! You know the truth. You and nobody else in the sane world believes that the Mexican government, or you, for as insignificant as you successfully try to be, is trying to stop the flood of YOUR unemployed from illegally crossing the border into the United States in order to work and send remittances home to Mexico.
This has been off the front pages only for a few months and you expext the world to forget the facts and subscribe to your slimey "poor victim me" typical Mexican evaluation of facts and events.

Don't try to sell the government publication as a first aid manual, jesse. It's a guide, and you, as pathetic a politician as you are, can't sell it as anything else but what it is.

You want facts? Here's one. Take away the remittances and the foreign aid given to Mexico by the United States and your country would be New Age Neanderthal. You and your self-deceived ideals wouldn't be worth a lousy taco. Mexico has always been know for her graciousness for many things but, never thankful for the assistance received from the U.S.. If that weren't a fact, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I didn't steal your efing land and I won't answer for the sins of my father. Little people like you only make me wish attitudes such as yours would escalate and we all could enjoy the inevitable. Untill that day, the more you openly agree with your government's assault on our borders, the more foolish you'll look. I hope your U.S. expat patrons know who is cooking their food because it's not their friend.

nancyinpdx - 3-23-2009 at 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by nancyinpdx
:rolleyes:

I'm absolutly devastated by your reply. I'll know frrom now on that I shouldn't mess with you.

haaaaaaaa-lay-loo-ya, haaaaaa-lay-loo-yah haaaaa-lay-loo-yah, etc... (sung in opera verbrato, of course, with a harpsichord and banjo... heck let's throw in a guido, a kazoo and coupla cowbells for more flavor!) :saint:

Honestly, at first I was 'peesed' off and responded negatively to your uncouth (hm, i think i likie that word- haven't used it in decades, lol!) personal attack and then decided to control my maddddd urges and to take the camino mas arrrrrriiiiba(!) :saint:

so I deleted it and decided you were to be pitied instead. poor poor dewd.... sorry for devastating yew... I'll owe you a few pesos i guess... would you prefer a kleenex or a hanky? I guess I should be nicer and spring for 2 40 ouncers of old 'E' too and make sure each bottle has it's own lil brown bag twisted round each bottle to almost cover em so you can surreptiously sneak yore swigs while you're drowning your sorrows that I so evilly and callously caused my fellow mexico addict to suffer. I gotta go repent now.... :saint:

Hasta la vista baybee!
Parting is such sweet sweet sorrow... sniff!

Ahl beee bock!

DENNIS - 3-24-2009 at 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nancyinpdx
:saint:

NancyNancyNancy..........You are in definite need of salvation. How will heaven be yours if your fingers are constantly titillating the speed keys of your blender?
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.......Oh, there you go again with your wicked concoction of nonsense that you spilled all over your last post.

Now....... Callllmly get a grip..NO NO , not there...this is a family venue. Behave yourself.
OK...again, get ahold of yourself...NOOOOO!!! I told you not to do that here.
Last time........Join your hands in prayer and repent. Please.

nancyinpdx - 3-24-2009 at 12:26 AM

Uh, my blender died 5 years ago.

Art thou gonna repent too or will I hafta seek yew out the next time I'm down there and try to cast the demon outta ur poor lost soul?

Can I borrow some gloves to protect my hands when I try to get a grip?

[Edited on 3-24-2009 by nancyinpdx]

JESSE - 3-24-2009 at 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
This another one of those lies that has spread by people that havent actually read the guide, or have choosen to ignore most facts.

Dude relax, i am not a victim, i don´t believe anybody stole my land, or anything like it, so take a valium and discuss the topic at hand.

Heres the guide, i don´t need to debate anything, its here for all to read and see:

http://www.vdare.com/bevens/Guia%20Del%20Migrante%20Mexicano...

JESSE - 3-24-2009 at 12:51 AM

Oh and Dennis, theres about 195 nations on earth and honestly, we have it pretty good here, we sit right next to the US and off course, like an above average looking guy sitting right next to George Clooney, all the little faults seem mighty ugly compared to the best. Yes, we are not up to the standars of perhaps 20 nations, but heck, considering theres 195 i say we are above average, we are by far, not the worst, nor even in the middle, so i am pretty proud.

This will hurt people like you, but Mexico loves the US, lets face it, we keep buying Ford and Chevrolet while the rest of the world doesnt. We love the food, the culture, and we buy $200 billion of your products a year.

That is reality buddy, you can´t escape from that.

oldlady - 3-24-2009 at 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bacquito
I have to agree that we renigged on our agreement with Mexico. Was there any incidents of crashes or poorly maintained trucks to cause us to reject Mexico trucks entering the U.S.? I fear a trade war and further bad relations.

I read a piece this morning relating to your question. The demonstration project was primarily to test safety. "The program became an embarassment because it found Mexican trucking at least as safe as U.S. trucking" I'm sure plenty of you will jump on your keyboards on that one. I suggest going to a fed web site before you leap and keeping in mind that if the data was inaccurate, it would have skewed to the US to provide a bona fide excuse. Having had 2 cars demolished by U.S. trucks while I was not moving and both truck drivers had their eyes elsewhere but on the road, I have no trouble with the assertion.

Furthermore, as many of you are aware, the current administration supports a significant change in whether or not secret ballots are required in unionization elections. Facing a similar situation last year, Mexico's highest court came down, unanimously, against the change that US unions and the administration support.

When our government changes, so indeed do many of our policies and our interpretations of our laws and treaties.

[Edited on 3-24-2009 by oldlady]

bacquito - 3-24-2009 at 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by bacquito
I have to agree that we renigged

You be in big troubles now. :rolleyes:

Ooops.