BajaNomad

Flying to Baja in Small Aircraft

Skeet/Loreto - 4-4-2009 at 08:12 AM

To all Future Flyers to Baja Norte and Baja Sur!

Flying to Baja in a Small Aircraft is a truely new and different Experience.

Small Airstrips are now Limited, so caution is needed when planning a Flight.
Weather can play an important part for a successful flight there and back. Sometimes this can be a problem as there are not as many Weather Stations and Navigation Aids in Baja.

Before you make a Flight with an unkonwn Pilot make sure that Pilot has the following:
Proper Certificate
At Least 200 Hours in Type of Aircraft
Previous Flights into Area of Destination
Membership in Baja Bush Pilots.
Check Log Book for at least 10 Flights in and out of Baja

Flying in and out of Baja from 1967 to 2000 in several types of Aircraft, being an Aviation Accident Investigator for several years, being a Glider Pilot, and still concerened about Accidents , decided me to make this Post.

Be Safe, Be Knowledgeable, Get Experience and have a Great Time and "Watch Thy Airspeed,lest the Ground Rise up and Smite Thee""

Skeet

Know Before You Go ?

MrBillM - 4-4-2009 at 10:21 AM

Sounds Good, BUT most of the Lethal Lapses I've seen covered in recent years were people who had ALL of that great experience before joining those in the Great-Beyond, including that last one from Gonzaga. I remember meeting a VERY experienced pilot down there years ago who exuded confidence in his long and varied record. About a year later, he disappeared.

And then, there's Art Scholl and that Balloon Guy in Nevada. Steve Fossett.

I suppose, though, that it would be more comforting to spend your last few moments before impact feeling good that you'd taken such steps.

I hope never to put that one to the test.

[Edited on 4-4-2009 by MrBillM]

Skeet/Loreto - 4-4-2009 at 10:39 AM

Mr. BillM




"Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained"

Udo - 4-4-2009 at 06:22 PM

Hire Mike. He makes movies of his trips.

Skeet/Loreto - 4-4-2009 at 06:47 PM

I think that a trip or two with Capt. Mike would do any new Pilot a lot of Good!

Skeet

what makes a good pilot??

steekers - 4-4-2009 at 09:50 PM

There are many subjective and objective factors that go into making a "good pilot" and flying into Mexico, with its usually good VFR conditions, doesn't necessarily make a pilot better than one who does not fly into Mexico. Flying skills, attitude, sleep the previous day, knowledge of moving weather systems, etc., are more important items that just being a member of BBP or your past experience as an "investigator".

Bajafun777 - 4-4-2009 at 10:48 PM

Well, I do not like to fly but I have flown into Loreto with a very good pilot from El Centro that that is no longer with us due to old age his name was Mr. Vedder. He had made numerous trips into Mexico flying people down to fish, hunt, and of course the "Play" that goes with single and those that think they are still single. I strongly believe that the more flying time in the areas you are going the better. The "what ifs" are always out there but give me an older experienced pilot over younger more daring ones that have to test the limits any day.
One of my worse flights was into Washington D.C. with no visiablity outside, hard rain, and lighting hitting the plane made me first pray to God for his mercy on me being so stupid as to have taken that flight. Especially due to me knowing storms were active but relenting to my boss to go anyway. I did call that #### and told him never, repeat never again would I fly when storms are known to be active. I also had a real bad experience coming back from St. Martin, which had almost everyone screaming, some crying, the stewardess screaming, it was a joke. I again went to prayer with God for his mercy in that I was back up in the dang air again. We went through rough conditions for about 45 minutes because the pilot could not find any good airspace to get to. My wife talked me into the flight to St. Martin and during all of this mess she looked at me as she was screaming and I told her to knock it of because she wanted to come so enjoy it. The guy next to me was in a big fit screaming and almost crying saying we were all going to die, I put up with this for a bit and then told him to stop it or I was going to knock him out so he could get under control since he was scaring others especially the kids. "Luck Be The Lady" that my wife must have had and God feeling sorry for me we landed safely. Yes, upon landing the pilot came on the air saying he was sorry we had such bad weather. At that point I did not care, I just wanted off that plane immediately.
Now, I hopefully only have one more air flight over to Europe since I promised my wife long ago upon retirement we would go. Thus, from where I am at in El Centro it will take me about 17 hours of flight time over and then same thing coming back, I am taking my bible with me on that one and then never again. I will hope that "Luck Be The Lady" and God has mercy on me one more time in the air. This is why I like Baja and even Mainland area of Mexico because I can drive to them all. So, " NO Hurry No Worry Just Fun" happens as when I am driving I am in control of what is going to happen unless God decides otherwise. Later, bajafun777

Skeet/Loreto - 4-5-2009 at 06:56 AM

steekers:
What makes a Good Pilot---Good Judgement in all things including the Ability to Fly and Airplane.
A good amount of my 6,000 Hours flying time was spent in the investigation of Aircraft Accidents. as you are probably aware 98% of Accidents are "Pilot Error'

During those years as an investigator the "Human Factor" and Pilots Background and Actions prior to the Accident was one of my Major Duties.

With the Authority I would make the following Mandtory:

In Addition to the Basic Certificate:

10 Hours Glider Time and Certificate

At least 20 take offs and Landings at Airport above 5,000 Ft. and Temp above 100 Degrees.

Several Take offs and Landings at Monanche Meadows in the Hi Sierras

Complete a Class and make a Written report on "Exploring the Monster"".

The Baja Bush pilots Membership might help a new pilot if he became involved and discussed the Flying of an Aircraft in Baja with experienced Pilots.

Judgement

capt. mike - 4-5-2009 at 07:21 AM

there are no experts - only varying degrees of applying good judgment after having gained experience. It's as much fun doing now what i began in 1978, and in Mexico 1980 - only far less scary! (well.....for me anyway!):biggrin:

if yur going to fly Baja or Mexico a membership in the BBP is a huge asset.

since the gov't changed the exit & entry procedures that are in beta practice form now since Nov 2008 but go official on May 18th - if you do not know about these procedures or how to access them and use them (DHS and CBP) then yur in for a big surprise and shock after May 18th.
The BBP has been helping pilots on this and other issues since our stupid guvment decided to "lessen" the nuclear threat from us GA guys flying bombs and al queda stooges into towns and buildings.....:smug:

even with these new guvment restrictions and controls.....which DON'T apply to cars....or pedestrians for that matter....i cannot wait for my next adventure south in my personal time machine.

Ken Bondy - 4-5-2009 at 08:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike
there are no experts - only varying degrees of applying good judgment after having gained experience. It's as much fun doing now what i began in 1978, and in Mexico 1980 - only far less scary! (well.....for me anyway!):biggrin:


Couldn't agree more mike! Just when you think you are an "expert" something bites you in the ass. I think flying in Baja generally made me a better pilot, but in subtle ways. Much of the stuff that was essential for flying in the USA was irrelevant in Baja, communications, airspace requirements, TCAs, heavy traffic, etc. But I learned some valuable stuff in Baja. In the US somebody tells you the wind speed and direction with great precision. In Baja you figured it out yourself, windsocks (if any), dust, trees, white water on the wind waves, and if you don't have any of those clues, just groundspeed on short final. I also learned a lot about weather from flying in Baja and that was invaluable. Baja flying taught me that all generalities in flying are false ("always land uphill at Rancho Buena Vista"). Mainly Baja flying made me a more self-sufficient and "aware" pilot. But I must say that what I learned in the US also helped in many circumstances below the border. Primarily that would be instrument training; precision flying helps in any circumstance, even VFR, and it sure helped me in staying in the right place when going into some tricky strips like Meling. Good discussion, thanks for starting this Skeet.

[Edited on 4-5-2009 by Ken Bondy]

jodiego - 4-5-2009 at 08:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
To all Future Flyers to Baja Norte and Baja Sur!

Flying to Baja in a Small Aircraft is a truely new and different Experience.

Small Airstrips are now Limited, so caution is needed when planning a Flight.
Weather can play an important part for a successful flight there and back. Sometimes this can be a problem as there are not as many Weather Stations and Navigation Aids in Baja.

Before you make a Flight with an unkonwn Pilot make sure that Pilot has the following:
Proper Certificate
At Least 200 Hours in Type of Aircraft
Previous Flights into Area of Destination
Membership in Baja Bush Pilots.
Check Log Book for at least 10 Flights in and out of Baja

Flying in and out of Baja from 1967 to 2000 in several types of Aircraft, being an Aviation Accident Investigator for several years, being a Glider Pilot, and still concerened about Accidents , decided me to make this Post.

Be Safe, Be Knowledgeable, Get Experience and have a Great Time and "Watch Thy Airspeed,lest the Ground Rise up and Smite Thee""

Skeet


Hey Fishbuck. do you have all those qualifications? Just asking in case you ask us to join you on a trip again.

Skeet/Loreto - 4-5-2009 at 09:14 AM

Very well said Ken:
Flying in Baja is different! I still remember my first landing Uphill at Rancho Bueno Vista-1967- Lots of Sand- Takeoff downhill toward the water.

Dead Reckoniong Flying is Fun and necessary in Baja.
The Ability to know the actions of Winds coming across Mountains is necessary.
How to make a Dead Stick Landing on the Beach.

Most of this can be learned while flying in Baja, not attending a Class, or a Lecture.
Flying in the States you would probably not think about a pass over the Strip looking for Donkeys- You had better Check each time in Baja.

In short, every trip you take to Baja can be a learning experience. Go and enjoy and come back Safe.
P.S. Before landing at the Hotel Mulege Strip you had better know how to do a Short Field Landing and Take off!!
And make darn sure if you are at Max Load. taking off from Sant Inez in a Cessna 172 to stay over the Arroyo going West.

capt. mike - 4-5-2009 at 09:24 AM

yes!! baja flying makes you think. Forces you to be way more conservative in your actions and personal minimums.

weight and balance, dirt, sand or paved. density altitude, WEATHER!! And....where is the NEXT gas stop??!! (one that you know actually has gas...)
length of runway. etc - the list is longer.
all are factors - every flight - if you don't consider each one before take off and landing - - big "gotcha's" might be lurking!:light::o

Ken Bondy - 4-5-2009 at 09:31 AM

Thanks Skeet and mike! Skeeter I got a kick out of your comment about the Hotel Mulege strip. It was my very first Baja dirt strip landing in 1974 (I had cleared in Mexicali). I was in a Cardinal 177RG and every round muscle in my body was so tight they all had cramps for days :).

Skeet/Loreto - 4-5-2009 at 09:58 AM

Hey Ken: Did you by chance know about the guy in the Bonanza that burned in coming into Bay of Los Angeles in about 74 I think?

It was a guy named Powers out of the Nutree at Vacaville. He tore off both Wings on descent to the Bay. Figured he was at 10,000 Ft. and got caught in a Shear.
That is just One good reason to learn about Winds and Speed in Baja.

When I was going into the Hotel Mulege Saul was running it, before he got the Store.'They sure had some good Carnitas stirred up in that big black Pot.

Ken Bondy - 4-5-2009 at 10:28 AM

Skeet I remember an accident that happened in Bahia at about that time that injured a young child who was walking on the runway. That's when the runway was right in the middle of town, of course. Not familiar with the one you are talking about. That one sounds horrible, ruins your whole day when both wings come off at 10,000 ft. Other than that first landing, I didn't spend much time up at Hotel Mulege. Mostly I hung out at Serenidad or Las Terrazas in town.

Skeet/Loreto - 4-5-2009 at 04:19 PM

Ken: I remember about the Little Gitl. I would land and Fuel at Pappa Diaz Place.
Can never forget the first time I landed there and observed the "Los Angeles Theme Place" which had just been finished.

Ken : Did you ever go dancing in Mulege at the building where they had Guards with AK 47's to guard the Doors.?? I went up several times and went Dancing- Never had any trouble.

Oh! so many stories. to the pacifico where you could land at a little strip and the People would bring you all the Lobster and Shrimp you could eat for a Buck!!
Some of those strips had not seen Americanos in Airplanes since the Days of the Shark Livers.

Bahia Ascinscion{SP} still had women and Children making Shell buttons for the Japanese Market.

Well it has been a great week end for memories. Thanks All.

capt. mike - 4-5-2009 at 05:33 PM

bonanza....?? V tail?
forked tailed doctor killer.

quick to spin and then can get away from you even quicker.

so i hear..but the owners love em!