A few days ago, while driving on a stretch of road around three in the morning, I happened to have passed a white Jeep with limo dark tinted windows.
The jeep was traveling slow - I was not speeding. There were no markings, license plate or bumper guards to indicate that it had any association with
law enforcement. The vehicle sped up a bit to keep up with me and a minute later a light bar located within the interior of the vehicle went off,
signaling me to pull over. I hesitated for a moment under the circumstances, but did pull over. In my mirror I could see a man in plain clothes with a
gun strapped to his belt approach. I only rolled down my window a few inches as a precaution, as well as leave my engine running and the vehicle in
gear. He did not initially identify himself but immediately ordered me to turn off the engine and to get out of the vehicle.
I will share what happened in this true story but I would first like to hear from Nomads what you would have done under similar circumstances?
[Edited on 4-9-2009 by BajaGringo]Iflyfish - 4-9-2009 at 07:16 AM
Run baby run!!
Yikes!
Were you out getting more pics of downtown Tijuana at night?
Iflyfishdianaji - 4-9-2009 at 07:16 AM
i would have offered to take him to breakfast.mulegemichael - 4-9-2009 at 07:19 AM
i think i would have tried to find a well lit area and drove to there...not many of those around at three in the morning, i know but it would be
something...i would NEVER have stopped in a deserted, dark area...never.woody with a view - 4-9-2009 at 07:19 AM
it depends on where you/i was.... in town or south of catavina.BajaGringo - 4-9-2009 at 07:22 AM
It happened on a stretch of highway between two towns about 15-20 miles apart.woody with a view - 4-9-2009 at 07:25 AM
i'd punt......
but who knows until you get there. every nerve and sense would tell me what to do....
so what's the story.Bajaboy - 4-9-2009 at 07:29 AM
Not sure what I would have done but reminds me of two things. One time my buddy had the same situation but in Oregon. He was driving (speeding) on a
highway when a pickup truck pulled up behind him with the lights flashing. He did not immediately pull over and this upset the cop pretty good. My
buddy's argument was that he had no idea whether or not this guy was legit.
On Monday, when returning from Playa San Rafael, we had three cars with lights flashing on the front of their cars pass us along the border road in
TJ. They were random cars that I would not associate with the police in any way.
I'm curious to hear more about the incident.Iflyfish - 4-9-2009 at 07:37 AM
I presume you survived even though your mug shot indicates you were arrested. Maybe the arrest is developmental? (humor for those who are humor
challenged) since you were driving at 3am.
Can't wait to hear the outcome of this.
Iflyfishmtgoat666 - 4-9-2009 at 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
A few days ago, while driving on a stretch of road around three in the morning,...
I will share what happened in this true story but I would first like to hear from Nomads what you would have done under similar circumstances?
I wouldn't have been driving at 3:00 AM -- I also recommend no one drive during late night hours.Howard - 4-9-2009 at 07:39 AM
It sounds very scary and I wish you no harm but when you travel the Mexican highways at 3 in the morning you take your chances of something like this.
Do you think this would of happened in daylight?
We all know that short of an emergency you roll the dice after dark.dianaji - 4-9-2009 at 07:46 AM
BG,
u r such a tease!:spingrinPhil S - 4-9-2009 at 07:51 AM
Alright. I'm dying ?????? to know. Fess up!!!!!!dianaji - 4-9-2009 at 07:54 AM
maybe he just wanted to borrow a cigarette.Osprey - 4-9-2009 at 07:56 AM
I think if had valid regs and plates and driver's license I would outrun the guy, forget it ever happened. If I got stopped somehow in the chase and
found the chaser to be legal law I would have a perfect excuse for running as the vehicle was unmarked and so was the driver. For highway law
enforcement to be effective the good guys have to look like the good guys.Sunman - 4-9-2009 at 08:07 AM
Concur with Osprey. If between towns in darkness and at that time of the night there's no doubt I'd keep driving until I got to a PEMEX or other lit
area. Then and only then would i consider pulling over.PabloS - 4-9-2009 at 08:08 AM
I think he's trollingBajaGringo - 4-9-2009 at 08:14 AM
OK, a few more details...
The road was conspicuously free of other vehicles, I knew that my Baja plates were current and I had committed no moving violations. When I passed the
vehicle the extremely dark limo tint stood out on the vehicle as it seemed so out of place on a Jeep. When passing it I looked in to see the front
windows were tinted very dark as well so that I could not even make out the outline of anyone inside, in spite of a few highway lights behind as I
passed him on the road. The light bar was located inside the vehicle and I doubt you could even have seen it during the daytime as the windows were so
dark. I watched him closely as he approached, his headlights as well as a highway light nearby lighting him up enough to see that he had no uniform, a
gun strapped to his belt and an overgrown Pancho Villa style mustache. I have family in law enforcement and am well versed in demeanor and protocol.
There was nothing to indicate to me that he had anything to do with law enforcement, based on his attire, mannerisms or attitude. The fact that he did
not initially identify himself as law enforcement only exacerbated that feeling I had. When I did not immediately exit my vehicle when commanded to do
so but instead asked him to identify what agency he was with, his attitude grew even more angry and at that point he un-holstered his gun, although he
held it pointing up and did not point it directly at me.
Heading out the door for a day of fishing guys - will finish the story tonight when we get back in. I will be trolling out in front of San Martin
Island...
[Edited on 4-9-2009 by BajaGringo]Osprey - 4-9-2009 at 08:23 AM
^&%*@#!*&DianaT - 4-9-2009 at 08:26 AM
Now, I know why you have that smirk on your avatar face---you are morphing into a troll. Drop a small time bomb that will create no end of
discussion/ argument, and leave to go fishing.
Diane
PS I hope the fishing is good----have fun!woody with a view - 4-9-2009 at 09:29 AM
that would be a good place to exit with the wasp spray emptying into the turd's face. kick him in the huevos and take the gun, stomp him into the
dirt, take his keys from the ignition and leave.
now back in the real world.......Russ - 4-9-2009 at 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by woody in ob
that would be a good place to exit with the wasp spray emptying into the turd's face. kick him in the huevos and take the gun, stomp him into the
dirt, take his keys from the ignition and leave.
That's what we should do to BajaGringo for leading us on.dianaji - 4-9-2009 at 09:45 AM
hope he doesn't catch any fish! he sure is good at giving bait.dianaji - 4-9-2009 at 10:06 AM
i meant putting out bait... and we bit...hook, line and sinker.
maybe he didn't go fishing...perhaps he is going to meet his new friend to see what he looks like in the daytime...Von - 4-9-2009 at 10:09 AM
I would have flipped him off and go even faster...........Woooosh - 4-9-2009 at 10:53 AM
Do we have to go to the new BG forum to get the answer?
Honestly- I would not have stopped for that vehicle. I would put on my flashers to signal I knew he was there. I would continue until I got to a
safe well lighted place- no matter how long that took. If the tinted car doesn't understand the message with the flashers and tries to intervene- he
wasn't a cop to begin with so just floor it and go.
Better to be possibly arrested for speeding and failure to comply than be much worse or dead had you simply submittted to the light bar and pulled
over.soulpatch - 4-9-2009 at 11:10 AM
Sounds like one of the Homeland Defense vehicles. Did this happen somewhere east of Alpine? Those guys are all over the place out east of El Cajon.
Me, I like lighted areas......can you say officer Peyer?bajalou - 4-9-2009 at 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by soulpatch
Sounds like one of the Homeland Defense vehicles. Did this happen somewhere east of Alpine? Those guys are all over the place out east of El Cajon.
Me, I like lighted areas......can you say officer Peyer?
Or one of the vigilantes in that area.Cypress - 4-9-2009 at 11:31 AM
Take it one step at a time. Stop. The next move is up to him.schwlind - 4-9-2009 at 11:33 AM
You'd never see me driving anywhere on the highway in Baja after dark... at 3am...fogeddaboutit, (unless it were an extreme medical emergency)
But let's just say I was going for medical help and that happened to me... just as many have said, I wouldn't stop until I got to a well lighted, at
least somewhat populated locale (one or two attendants at the Pemex would be good)... I would also do as others suggested and turn on my emergency
flashers... but no way would I stop!
With all that's gone on... even if the person were law enforcement... the cops know what's been happening... so the worst I can imagine is you would
probably spend hours at the municipal hooskow explaining why you didn't stop.
And if you get shot... it probably wasn't the cops anyway...Iflyfish - 4-9-2009 at 11:34 AM
I am floppin on the ground here! I bit and now am hooked! Help!
IflyfishwhennotgettinghookedmyselfbyawellplacedstoryopeningparagraphPetey - 4-9-2009 at 11:38 AM
A few highway lights? Between 2 towns 15-20 miles apart? That eliminates 99% of the highways in Baja Norte or Sur right there.toneart - 4-9-2009 at 11:47 AM
I would not have stopped. I would have sped on to the next town. He had jeep? I would have run him off the road if he tried to pass me. I would have
been fairly certain he was not legit. But then, I would not have been on the highway at night.Sharksbaja - 4-9-2009 at 12:19 PM
Hey, I need some more popcorn............... hold that fake butter please!Pescador - 4-9-2009 at 12:51 PM
There is a big difference between the US and Mexico when somone behind you is flashing his lights to pull over. In the US, they expect you to proceed
to the next safe spot to pull over, but I have been told by the Federales in Santa Rosalia area, that you are expected to stop wherever you are and
immediately.
But in this case, I am wondering if I could have outrun a jeep. Bet I could even with a Cummins diesel.Terry28 - 4-9-2009 at 12:56 PM
Who said this happened in Mexico?? I think we are being "fished' here and he looks to caught quite a few....dianaji - 4-9-2009 at 01:43 PM
and he is getting quite a bit of attention...two whole pages and he's gone fishin'!BajaGeoff - 4-9-2009 at 01:47 PM
My thoughts exactly Terry.......I don't think this happened in Baja!Bajahowodd - 4-9-2009 at 01:50 PM
Actually giving credit where it's due, Soulpatch was first with the idea that it may have happened North of the border. And I concur with the idea of
Homeland Security. Remember, BG has Mexican plates. Guess we'll just have to wait until it gets dark, the campfire is lit, and the ghost story
continues.dianaji - 4-9-2009 at 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Guess we'll just have to wait until it gets dark, the campfire is lit, and the ghost story continues.
he probably thought up the missing uhaul thing also.. or perhaps we won't hear from him til 3:00 a.m.comitan - 4-9-2009 at 02:00 PM
Whats all the fuss, he was driving down the San Quintin corridor and the guy stopped him to tell him he had a tail light out.fishingmako - 4-9-2009 at 03:46 PM
I really don't care whether it was Day Or night, I am not stopping for a unmarked car as this one was not marked, you are asking for trouble. many
phonies have lights set up like STARSKY AND HUTCH.
Recently my wife and dog was coming back from San Felipe up in Trinidad when a guy with 3 other men, was parked on the side of the road, with cell
phones, and pretending as a break down, we stopped and the one guy approached us, looked around, and was about to pull something off, when a car from
no where came by and at the same time I rolled down the window and my Dog lunged at him, and as he backed away, We hauled A--, the next
time it happens I will run them over way tooooo much crap going on.
Whether someone is stopped on the side of the road, or driving behind you trying to pull you over, unless it is easy identifiable as markings etc.
I'm not stopping or hanging around.
Now for BG I really hope you are not BS ing to get a thread going, not cool.BajaNuts - 4-9-2009 at 04:39 PM
yea, 'Gringo is really trolling this time and from his bait, he's caught a bucket full. I think he gets the award for being the Master Baiter.
Iflyfish - 4-9-2009 at 04:47 PM
Aside from that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
Aside from that Gringo, how was the other fishing?
IflyfishasIwaitwithbaitedbreathdesertcpl - 4-9-2009 at 04:49 PM
I feel like I just swallowed the hook that Gringo threw outBajaGeoff - 4-9-2009 at 04:51 PM
I stand corrected. Good sleuthing soulpatch!24baja - 4-9-2009 at 06:03 PM
Okay, senior BajaGringo.....I have checked for this story so many times, my husband thinks I have an online boyfriend, put him out of his misery and
me outa mine....what happened?????Paula - 4-9-2009 at 06:53 PM
Yes, BajaGringo-- time for the rest of the story. It's dark, and if you're still out fishing you're up to no goodoldlady - 4-9-2009 at 06:58 PM
does anyone think he won't milk 2 or three more episodes out of this?thebajarunner - 4-9-2009 at 07:14 PM
Take it off topic,
sounds like mierda to meMango - 4-9-2009 at 07:23 PM
Here is what you do...
Roll down the window and throw a doughnut out...
If the guy goes for the doughnut... he is a cop, wait right there.
If he continues towards your car without flinching.. gun it and run.
OK, seriously. I'm with the people that would never be driving at 3am in Mexico. (It's not even smart in the USA; bu, I've done it)
Between the Bandits, road conditions, and La Llorona ... It's just not smart.dianaji - 4-9-2009 at 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by oldlady
does anyone think he won't milk 2 or three more episodes out of this?
old lady, that is soooo good! we could get even...don't feed the troll!BajaGringo - 4-9-2009 at 11:11 PM
OK, OK, OK - everybody keep your pants on. Sorry to have dragged it on this long but I really did not plan it this way. We had a great day fishing and
ended up cooking all the fish out on the beach, some live music showed up, someone else brought some more alcohol, and... well, you get the idea.
Bottom line is I just now got back to an internet connection.
The purpose of presenting the story this way was not to leave you hanging and those of you who really know me can attest that a troll I am not. I just
wanted to create a discussion based on a real story that happened to me just a couple of days ago in which I believe perspective plays a big part and
will swing your opinion accordingly I suppose. I believe that in itself makes this story something to think about and consider. So let me fill you in
on the rest of the story. A few of you have touched on it already...
I was notified at 1:00 in the morning that my mom was taken to a hospital in Long Beach and had to be resuscitated by paramedics en route. So I
dressed quickly and headed for the border going north. Midway between Oceanside and San Clemente I passed the unmarked Jeep with very dark tinted
windows. I was driving 65 mph and there was nobody else on the road. The Jeep turned on the flashing lights a few miles ahead and the events occurred
exactly as I described. When the guy pulled his gun out of the holster I immediately put my hands in the air but I again asked what agency/department
he worked for. At that point he slammed a badge (with no photo) against my window and yelled out that he was with the border patrol, and again
demanded that I get out of my vehicle. I told him that I would comply with his order as long as I could hear him order a supervisor on scene with his
radio and hear a radio confirmation that a supervisor was en route. (something I have learned from my family members in law enforcement) He grudgingly
complied and I exited the vehicle and at which point I was slammed down to the ground and handcuffed.
He began screaming at me and asking me what I was hiding in my vehicle. I tried to keep my cool and answered in a calm voice that I was en route to
Saint Marys Hospital in Long Beach and was hesitant to comply originally due to him being in a an unmarked vehicle, in plain clothes and had not
identified himself, despite numerous requests on my part. He simply said bulls**t and began searching my vehicle, tossing all my stuff out on the
ground, including all my clothes that were in a bag as I had not taken time to pack a suitcase.
A few minutes later an SUV showed up and another officer in plains clothes came out, looked at me and went over to get the officers version of what
was going on. The supervisor then came over to me and asked what was going on and I told him. He then took my ID, ran my drivers license and then came
back, uncuffed me and asked me again why I had resisted. I again repeated the story of what had happened.
He then called the other officer over and together they tried to explain to me that this was a "profile stop" (I thought those were illegal) under a
program called highway intervention. I told them I thought it was great that they were trying to stop the flow of illegal drugs but that I felt I had
a right to protect myself under the circumstances of the stop as I described.
I know that some of you may disagree, but I believe that this type of stop/behavior is wrong on both sides of the border and my instincts would be
the same, be it north or south of the border. I understand that you may not all agree with that but I thought the perspective was one worth
discussing.
YMMVfishbuck - 4-9-2009 at 11:16 PM
Well, it must have been a happy ending because you did get to go fishing today.
I have two questions. How is your mom and what kind of fish did you catch?
[Edited on 4-10-2009 by fishbuck]David K - 4-9-2009 at 11:20 PM
Yah Ron... how's your mom (the fish were good, I'm sure)?Bajahowodd - 4-9-2009 at 11:21 PM
I have two observations.
First, who the hell goes 65mph between Oceanside and San Clemente?
Second, you can blame Cheney for this crap. Gonna take years before we ratchet down this frenzy based on 9/11.
And, most important, we are all hoping the best for your mom.soulpatch - 4-9-2009 at 11:25 PM
A lot of those guys are dipchits.
All you have to do is look at their storage yard and look at all the wrecked trucks.
You wouldn't believe the number of accidents I have been on where Border Patrol vehicles were involved, even all by themselves.
It's those ones that get the decent ones labeled idiots......every career field has them.
Personally, I would email your elected representatives about this. They respond fervently to email.BajaGringo - 4-9-2009 at 11:34 PM
My mom is stable - her heart is slowly giving out. She has lived a good life and I suspect that we need to just be thankful for each day more that we
count her her here among us.
We caught an assortment of fish including a huge bonita (looked to be the size of a tuna), a white sea bass, a bunch of regular-nice sized bonita,
rock cod and a few they called "madre". We did a beach launch vs bahia launch and the spontaneous gig that happened on return truly was one of the
best times I have had in awhile.
I was going 65 that night because I had it on cruise coming from San Diego. I was on the phone with my sister who was already at the hospital and
didn't think of stepping up the speed, although I do agree that stretch normally goes faster.
Thanks for your kind thoughts and concern for my mom...
[Edited on 4-10-2009 by BajaGringo]Bajahowodd - 4-9-2009 at 11:52 PM
Peace.dianaji - 4-10-2009 at 06:47 AM
i'm sorry for being hateful! i overreacted.
the moral of this story is, don't judge.woody with a view - 4-10-2009 at 07:10 AM
really cool to hear your take on your mother's good long life. she's lucky to have a good son..
all our best to MOM!!!!Howard - 4-10-2009 at 07:15 AM
First and foremost, good thoughts about your mother.
I will now give my 2 pesos worth.
This is still America, not some 3rd world Bull S--t country and our government employees MUST treat it's citizens with respect and not with strong
arm tactics. I fully realize that it is hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys and sometimnes the utmost of precaution must be taken on their
part. Once it became what I percieve as obvious that you were not a bad guy and to continue to treat you with no respect I find everyones act
unconscionable, including the supervisors, for at least not apologizing for their treatment.
I understand that in these times the government must take steps to stop the flow of bad people doing bad acts. I also understand the need for
undercover cars and unconventional ways to stop the bastards from doing unthinkable acts but this was way over the line on the handling of this stop.
I don't even know you guys and I am mad as hell. If I were in your shoes and once your mind comes off the thoughts of your Mom, I would report this
to everyone and anyone that will listen. This man went way over the line and once they found out you were not what he was looking for, he should off
handled it completely different.
I am not old enough to actually experience it (Thank God) but it almost sound like Germany in the 1930's!
Once last thing, where is the spell check on this damn site?dianaji - 4-10-2009 at 07:21 AM
howard,
as u type, the misspelled words are underlined in red. like this, unnerstan?
diana dianaji - 4-10-2009 at 07:22 AM
i just noticed that when it gets posted, the red doesn't show up, however, while u are posting it, it does.Howard - 4-10-2009 at 07:24 AM
I see know read when I tipe. (just kidding on the spelling on this post) I see no redPhil S - 4-10-2009 at 07:28 AM
BajaGringo. Sorry about your mom.!!! Your talking about profiling earlier.
If you do look like your avitar, no wonder they pulled you over!!!!!!!!!!
[Edited on 4-10-2009 by Phil S]jodiego - 4-10-2009 at 08:29 AM
"a profile stop"??? Not knowing you as others do BG, what was it about you and/or your vehicle that made them stop you in the first place?Iflyfish - 4-10-2009 at 08:37 AM
I am sorry that this happened to you. You did not need this on top of your worry about your mother. Reminds me of the tape I recently saw of a black
football player who the police would not allow to go into a hospital to see his dying mother in law. Shame of police and border patrol people who act
like this. They are supposed to represent us and a jerk like that should be seriously reprimanded and you deserve an apology.
I liked this post and thread, lots of issues to think about. I loved the "throw a donut out and see who salutes" approach. Funny, really funny.
Putting red lights and sirens in unmarked cars with tinted windows driven by men out of uniform is a set up for situations like this and it is clearly
a result of the paranoia that we are now experiencing post 9/11. These are indeed Gestapo tactics, as another poster stated and we aught not to
tolerate them.
Police and Border patrol have a job to do and it isn't to be our Jack Boots.
IflyfishBajaGringo - 4-10-2009 at 08:41 AM
I fully understand and support the need to use unconventional means in law enforcement today. By the officer's own admission I had committed no
crime/infraction and was stopped solely for driving an SUV with Baja plates late at night. I still have no problem with that. What I do have a problem
with was the fact that I am expected to just lay down and accept that anybody with a lightbar inside their vehicle and a gun can pull you over. His
badge had no photo ID with it. I commented to his supervisor that he only showed the badge to me after numerous requests on my part. The supervisor
responded that I should have complied at that point to which I said you can buy those badges today off Craigslist and eBay. He chuckled at that one.
That was probably as close to an apology as I got.
It also ticked me off the way the guy searching my vehicle threw out all my stuff onto the ground, including my clothes. For what was supposed to be
purely a profile style stop it sure seemed like I was being treated like a bad guy. There has to be a better way to do this and how they can handle
these kind of stops. Any Gringo living down here who drives with Baja plates could be affected. Maybe I just got lucky and got a real jerk.
Driving away I thought about the hundreds of times I have had my vehicle searched in Baja at military and Federal Police checkpoints on the road.
Makes me just want to stay on the south side of the border...
And no, I don't look like my avatar - I probably look closer to Ron Howard.tripledigitken - 4-10-2009 at 08:42 AM
Assuming BG does look like a Gringo and assuming his car has mexican plates that would send up red flags I'm sure.
Don't know if either of these assumptions are correct.
Of course to those that think Profiling is a carryover from the last administration nothing would justify the stop.
Ken
I was writing this as BG was posting the above.
[Edited on 4-10-2009 by tripledigitken]oldlady - 4-10-2009 at 08:45 AM
My guess would be the Mexican plates. Not knowing who he was I would have slowed down hoping that if the light bar was legit he would follow me to a
well lit eixt/gas station in San Clemente.
But then, a woman's point of view isn't completely valid in this scenario. If I had stopped with engine running and window cracked, the second he
pulled his weapon I would have burst into tears and peed.
The initial part of the encounter was somewhat understandable. Uniformed or not, the officer has the bigger risk walking up to a vehicle not knowing
who or what is inside. Once he knew who you were an appropriate explanation and apology would have been in order.
More importantly, I hope your mother, you and your family receive good physical and emotional care during this time.BajaGringo - 4-10-2009 at 08:53 AM
The point of my posting this thread was not to make any direct political statements or jabs at any administration but simply to see how different we
would inherently react to such circumstances based on whether we were north or south of the border. I also thought it curious as to how different the
military / police south of the border handle these types of stops than the border patrol seems to be doing. These kinds of stops happen frequently
south of the border and I have been a customer many times, probably because they think it strange to see a gringo driving an SUV with Baja plates in
Mexico as well. However in all the stops and checkpoints I have never been treated so as I was on this stop north of the border. I understand these
guys have a dangerous job but if you think of how many more officers south of the border have lost their life in this drug war and yet somehow they
manage to handle these stops with a lot more wisdom and civility.k-rico - 4-10-2009 at 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
I fully understand and support the need to use unconventional means in law enforcement today.
What I do have a problem with was the fact that I am expected to just lay down and accept that anybody with a lightbar inside their vehicle and a gun
can pull you over.
Well, which is it?BajaGringo - 4-10-2009 at 08:57 AM
I don't believe that unconventional means justifies the way this came down. To the contrary; if they are going to use completely unmarked vehicles
with plain clothes officers they have to first make sure that we understand who they are and the purpose of the stop. Otherwise it bears close
resemblance to a car jacking. I think a line has to be drawn somewhere and this isn't it...
YMMV
[Edited on 4-10-2009 by BajaGringo]k-rico - 4-10-2009 at 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
He then called the other officer over and together they tried to explain to me that this was a "profile stop" (I thought those were illegal) under a
program called highway intervention.
Have they thrown "reasonable cause" out the window? Is driving a SUV with baja plates now reasonable cause to be stopped and searched?BajaGringo - 4-10-2009 at 09:06 AM
Apparently so...k-rico - 4-10-2009 at 09:09 AM
Another trip to the "dark side".DianaT - 4-10-2009 at 09:16 AM
First, Happy your mother is OK for now. It sounds like, however, she is becoming tired and that is never an easy thing with which to deal.
We agree with those who say you should file complaints for the way you were treated.
IMHO, you were correct to be cautious.
Diane and Johntripledigitken - 4-10-2009 at 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
............ However in all the stops and checkpoints I have never been treated so as I was on this stop north of the border. I understand these guys
have a dangerous job but if you think of how many more officers south of the border have lost their life in this drug war and yet somehow they manage
to handle these stops with a lot more wisdom and civility.
BG,
With all due respect, are you really saying that the Mexican Authorities are the Benchmark to judge Police Forces?
KenDianaT - 4-10-2009 at 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
He then called the other officer over and together they tried to explain to me that this was a "profile stop" (I thought those were illegal) under a
program called highway intervention.
Have they thrown "reasonable cause" out the window? Is driving a SUV with baja plates now reasonable cause to be stopped and searched?
When crossing the border, they have the right to search your vehicle, but as you said, are baja plates now "reasonable cause" to be stopped and
searched north of the border, or do we no longer have a Bill of Rights?
As one of our bumber stickers says, Ignore you Rights and they will go away----and in the name of paranoia, they have been slipping away.
DianeCypress - 4-10-2009 at 09:39 AM
Also had a wierd Border Patrol encounter north of Yuma on a state HWY. Regular checkpoint, several uniformed agents, broad dayliight. Emptied my rig,
searched with K-9, was asked all sorts of questions. Examples " Have you ever been in prison?" "Do you do drugs, smoke pot?". Made me spread eagle
while they frisked me. I was very polite and cooperative. To top it of I had to replace all the stuff they pulled from my truck, both up in the cab
and under the canopy. The govt. guys south of the border treat me with much more courtesy etc.fixtrauma - 4-10-2009 at 09:59 AM
As I was reading this thread through from the beginning I thought that there had to be a U-haul component to it somewhere!Howard - 4-10-2009 at 10:09 AM
So, are you are you or are you not going to report this to the authorities?oldlady - 4-10-2009 at 10:10 AM
Reasonable suspicion is less constricting on law enforcement than probable or reasonable cause and has been upheld by the courts for quite awhile
particularly in situations where law enforcement stops a vehicle.BAJACAT - 4-10-2009 at 10:15 AM
This story remind me of one about a death body in Catavina, the only difference is that this one is real.
I hope your mom gets well, I still have my two parents, my dad is 88 years old and still strong..
Ps. the death body story is not the one about the italian tourist..
[Edited on 4-10-2009 by BAJACAT]DianaT - 4-10-2009 at 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by oldlady
Reasonable suspicion is less constricting on law enforcement than probable or reasonable cause and has been upheld by the courts for quite awhile
particularly in situations where law enforcement stops a vehicle.
And resonable suspicion is a gringo in a vehicle with Baja plates? That is enough to stop, detain, search and treat with total disrespect? If so,
that is a really sad statement of where we are in this country.
If anyone on this board had been treated this way at one of the Mexican army stops, everyone would be screaming loud and long.k-rico - 4-10-2009 at 10:21 AM
An email to the two CA senators would be a good idea if you want to report it. Telling the cops about it won't do much good. I once wrote both
senators about an issue and was surprised when I heard back from both of them.soulpatch - 4-10-2009 at 10:43 AM
Border Patrol can detain within, I believe, 100 miles of the border with no probable cause.....I am wrong often, though.
I am most often treated professionally in south of the line inspections but there have been a few times where they were complete jerks and one time
they were drunk, high and very aggressive and I just took off.mulegemichael - 4-10-2009 at 10:45 AM
the border patrol is REALLY out of control at this point...case in point; my farm manager is mexican and a naturalized U.S. citizen as is his wife and
three kids...he's run my farm in my absence for over 10 years and is an upstanding member of our community,(in washington state).
Last month, while we were in mulege for the winter, he was at a friends house in town,(sequim, washington), helping to work on a vehicle with some
other buddies...all of a sudden, the door was kicked in, and in piled a half dozen border patrol, guns drawn...my guy raised his hands and tried to
tell them he was a citizen and was rewarded with a face plant and a bloody nose, then was cuffed, along with all the rest of the guys.......now...is
that reasonable force?....i was in law enforcement for 20 yrs and that doesn't comply with any of the guidelines i was taught...they are out of
control..Howard - 4-10-2009 at 10:46 AM
So, are you or are you not going to report this to the authorities? If you don't that is your choice, however in my opinion if you do not, it just
will allow this jerk and their procedures to continue.
I still beleive in the good old USA (OK, maybe not the stimulus package) and as naive as I may be, I think that if it goes on this idiots record, he
will get what he has coming in the long run.Pescador - 4-10-2009 at 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I have two observations.
First, who the hell goes 65mph between Oceanside and San Clemente?
Second, you can blame Cheney for this crap. Gonna take years before we ratchet down this frenzy based on 9/11.
And, most important, we are all hoping the best for your mom.
Look Odd Boy, you recently requested that political crap be posted in the political section and then you go and disrespect your own suggestions. I am
glad you have an opinion but it was not really needed here and since the elections are over try to just deal with the facts and don't try to play cool
and continue with the political bashing.Cypress - 4-10-2009 at 10:49 AM
mulegemichael, Agree! If I'd made one wrong move during my encounter that would have been my fate.durrelllrobert - 4-10-2009 at 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Howard
This is still America, not some 3rd world Bull S--t country and our government employees MUST treat it's citizens with respect and not with strong
arm tactics.
I am not old enough to actually experience it (Thank God) but it almost sound like Germany in the 1930's!
Don't know how many Border Patrol agents are jerks, or even how many Border Patrol agents there are but there will be 10's of thousands in Obama's new
Civilian National Security Force (CNSF) and they will be trained to be armed jerks. Recruitment for CNSF has already started under the auspices of the
new DoD 1404.10 direrctive (google it, and I realize that this should be a new thread on off-topic)comitan - 4-10-2009 at 11:32 AM
Pescador
Bajahowodd - 4-10-2009 at 11:36 AM
Sr. Fisherman- So, you really don't believe that there is a connection between overzealous law enforcement and the paranoia that was whipped up after
9/11?
Seriously, I do believe that political opinion generally does not belong on the main boards. But, in this case, it just seemed to fit. Sorry if I have
transgressed.ELINVESTIG8R - 4-10-2009 at 11:43 AM
Ron I am sorry to hear about your mom and I hope she recovers soon. I will say a prayer for her.
That person who pulled you over is just a plain A**-Hole (Adam-Henry). Any police officer whether federal, state, county, or city, who, pulls someone
over in an unmarked car wearing civilian clothing, then does not have the courtesy of showing an official picture ID is again just a plain Adam-Henry.
What made this Adam-Henry even a bigger one is the way he conducted himself and the way he did the search. I do not know what probable cause or
reasonable suspicion, if any the border patrol needs to conduct a car-stop then a search but what happened to you does not sound right. I think you at
least have a legitimate complaint. Then again I may just running off at the mouth. At a bare minimum he needs a good verbal A-whipping from his
bosses.Cypress - 4-10-2009 at 11:51 AM
Pescador!!! Thanks!!!BajaGeoff - 4-10-2009 at 12:01 PM
Sorry to hear about your mom BajaGringo. Glad she is stable.
This agent sounds like a real jerk and I think you should absolutely report the incident. His behavior was totally out of line and unacceptable.24baja - 4-10-2009 at 01:16 PM
Senior BajaGringo,
My prayers are with you and all of your family as your mom continues on her journey. As we progress in age and our bodies give up it becomes
increasingly hard for our families to accept at times and the only consolation I have to offer you is that the some of best times I had with my
Grandfather were when I spent his last weeks with him, caring for him, it was then that I realized what an honour it was to be his granddaughter and
although I was losing him I charished each and every moment, and still do. God Bless.
Now to your story, I was so drawn up in this that when I awoke this morning my first thought was "Oh boy, the story could be finished, then I thought,
yeah just your luck he would say it was just a dream and he woke up".... Boy was I wrong, sorry you had to go through what you did and although I do
not feel that the officer in question needed to be rude and hasty in his assumptions, I can kind of understand his duties and orders. That said, I
hope that this kind of thing doesn't continue to happen on either side of the border.
Be careful out there, it is a strange world we live in! ConniePaula - 4-10-2009 at 02:04 PM
This sounds more like a highway intimidation program than a highway intervention program! There is no reason for law enforcement to behave this way
EVER, no matter what your nationality, race, or personal appearance. This guy was a thug, and his supervisor was no better.
If it happened to me I would send a letter to my senators, with carbon copies to the governor's office, and the departments of homeland security and
immigration. And I might make a formal complaint against the officers.
As a society we shouldn't tolerate this kind of bullying by so-called law enforcement.
all our best to MOM!!!!