BajaNomad

Road to Gonzaga/Chapala: Why/How/Who?

redhilltown - 4-20-2009 at 10:34 PM

I hope this isn't repeating a thread but I just got back from the "road" to Gonzaga/Chapala and with all the construction I can't help thinking: Huh? They are doing a great job...millions of dollars being spent. This is no San Felipe to Puertecitos road that will be washed out with next major weather event: this seems to be well done and thought out. But why? Where is the money coming from? Bang for the buck, how can this be rationalized (ooops, I know that is a tricky word down there) to the taxpayers of Baja? Unless someone has HUGE plans and already has money invested, I don't get it. Millions will be spent for a nice road to a place that has little water and is virtually impossible for large development. Just wondering if anyone has a clue.

David K - 4-21-2009 at 08:15 AM

Gonzaga Bay is beautiful and one of the last places to be reached by paved road that can be exploited. There are also minerals to mine and years ago it was reported that a pier was going to be built in the bay to load the ore... Once the new, high quality highway gets put through to Chapala from Puertecitos, that road to San Felipe will need to be re-done with the stupid dips all taken out... (IMO, jdt)

DianaT - 4-21-2009 at 08:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
(IMO, jdt)


Good, you are learning. :lol:

redhilltown,
The rumors about who has invested in the Gonzaga Bay area are interesting. My favorite is that the wife of the ex-President, Vicente Fox had invested in that area. But those types of rumors are everywhere. In our area, gees, at one point, it was said that Carlos Slim was buying San Roque.

I think that besides potential development of that area, that road will serve commerce from the mainland down south. That is where maybe the taxpayers will benefit--just one of the things I have heard.

It is such a beautiful place---one of our favorites in the winter. Enjoy it now---how far has the new road gone at this point in time??

Diane

Barry A. - 4-21-2009 at 08:38 AM

"The dips" on the road between San Felipe and Puertecitos are ever so much cheaper to maintain than a system of culverts and bridges needed to replace them will be, and that is the logic ("stupidity"??) behind them. In addition, the construction cost of building bridges and culverts is enormous, and in this desert environment will be destroyed as often as tropical storms come thru. I have long been an advocate of "Texas Crossings" rather than culverts and bridges in this type of environment unless the road is truly built to be "high speed", and there is money to sustain it---------it just makes economic sense.

Barry

bajamikey - 4-21-2009 at 09:30 AM

about 25-30% of the truck traffic on hwy 1 north of chapala will be on hwy 5 when they finnish(if,when,maybe,i don't know) the road. last february i ask coco about the road going by his corner, he said that the road would be going 5km or 5 miles i forgot which one to the west of his corner

redhilltown - 4-21-2009 at 02:06 PM

Diane, the road work has progressed as far as Black Mountain. Not the paving but the grading and supplies are even a bit south of there. I think the actual paving is up to Campo Costilla.

Cypress - 4-21-2009 at 02:20 PM

:O Progress has it's pro's and it's con's. Coco's corner will be a hotel complex, with food, fuel, and everything to meet a travelers needs.

rts551 - 4-21-2009 at 04:10 PM

JDT. No this is not from when I was a little kid. It was from last month. Gives you an idea of how much equipment they are using.


[img][/img]

BajaWarrior - 4-21-2009 at 04:26 PM

If it's gonna happen (the road to Gonzaga) then it will happen. I beleive the Mexican people will appreciate the smooth pavement as opposed to destroying their vehicles on the rough dirt road just to get gas and groceries.

Hook - 4-21-2009 at 04:26 PM

I gotta get down there. Havent been since the late 80s.

I expect we can call the Three Sisters the Three Amigos by now, huh?.


[Edited on 4-21-2009 by Hook]

Bajahowodd - 4-21-2009 at 04:36 PM

In a country that has a dedicated Federal agency to name bridges and culverts? Por supuesto!

Barry A. - 4-21-2009 at 10:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
:O Progress has it's pro's and it's con's. Coco's corner will be a hotel complex, with food, fuel, and everything to meet a travelers needs.


-------and the water for this "complex" will come from where????? :lol:

Barry

David K - 4-22-2009 at 08:12 AM

They could run a pipe over the mountain from Calamajue... plenty of water there... it just isn't drinkable! :rolleyes:

David K - 4-22-2009 at 09:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajamikey
about 25-30% of the truck traffic on hwy 1 north of chapala will be on hwy 5 when they finnish(if,when,maybe,i don't know) the road. last february i ask coco about the road going by his corner, he said that the road would be going 5km or 5 miles i forgot which one to the west of his corner


It gets real rocky and hilly west of Coco's. The old Chapala-Gonzaga road is about 2 miles west of Coco's and it follows the El Camino Real for a bit before moving east, then north to Las Arrastras. The ranch is on the old road, west of Coco's...

Here is a satellite image of the area from when I was plotting the El Camino Real trail. Every pin 'ECR' marks where I could see the trail, from space...




[Edited on 4-22-2009 by David K]

Smooth Sailing (driving) Soon

MrBillM - 4-22-2009 at 11:45 AM

I just spoke with a friend who returned yesterday from his home in Gonzaga. Work on the road fast and furious with lots of construction equipment involved. A new Batch Plant being built. He said he wouldn't be surprised if it were finished to Gonzaga by Fall. Provided the money holds out. Cellphone towers rumored to follow.

Cool.

Glad that I made the drive many times in the 70s, but looking forward to a Smooth Cruise.

rts551 - 4-22-2009 at 12:15 PM

I agree with Mr Bill. For Arizona residents Paving this road will cut off 200 miles(and major traffic) off our trip... I know good roads, bad people.... guess I am just bad.

Cypress - 4-22-2009 at 01:12 PM

It'll still be an adventure, paved or otherwise.:)

Baja Paradise

MrBillM - 4-22-2009 at 01:22 PM

I'll say that they've arrived when the Arby's goes in. The road may no longer be an adventure, but it'll be fun.

If I want memories, I'll look at my photos and Super 8 taken in the 70s.

Bwana_John - 4-22-2009 at 02:35 PM

Quote:

He said he wouldn't be surprised if it were finished to Gonzaga by Fall

I would be very suprised to see it get to Gonzaga by fall 09.

It took a year to get around Puertocitos, and another 6 months to get to 5 miles.
They are doing a good job; real cut-and-fill, banked curves, shoulders, and curbs!
Even after the 3 Questas they have to worry about flood conntrol across the aluvium.

Quien Sabe ?

MrBillM - 4-22-2009 at 04:20 PM

But, is there any word on the Arby's ?

David K - 4-23-2009 at 08:44 AM

There were more than 3 'sisiters'... but that has become a common term for the very steep grades on the pre-1986 road south of Puertecitos. After 1973, when supplies for Gonzaga Bay started coming in from the new highway (Mex 1), to the south... maintenance between Gonzaga and Puertecitos ended and the road slowly became more and more difficult to travel.

Here is a map from the 1970 Cliff Cross Baja Guide that IDs the grades:


Three and More

MrBillM - 4-23-2009 at 09:40 AM

It is impossible to describe adequately that trip to anyone who didn't make it. Bad road is an understatement.

In '73 we drove it in two Baja Bugs and we both had Super 8 cameras. Took a lot of footage, especially on the worst of the Sisters that gringos called Cement Hill for the slab of concrete that had been poured in one spot that washed out badly. That slab itself became an obstacle when the area below it washed out and left a "Step" to be climbed going uphill.

Others looking at the spliced films have said "that doesn't look so bad".

You had to be there.

Now, I just want to cruise down the paved road and stop at Arby's along the way.

Mr Bill

BajaRob - 4-23-2009 at 03:43 PM

I'm with you. Been there done it many times. My body and truck don't love it anymore. Last few trips to San Quintin, GN, and Cabo, we took the long way via Ensenada. Bring on the smooth short-cut.

BajaWarrior - 4-23-2009 at 03:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaRob
I'm with you. Been there done it many times. My body and truck don't love it anymore. Last few trips to San Quintin, GN, and Cabo, we took the long way via Ensenada. Bring on the smooth short-cut.


Ditto that Rob! it will be great to take the "good truck" down there for a change!

We're heading down this weekend, Friday till Monday and we'll be going to town on Saturday for the Chili Cook Off at Club de Pesca from 1 to 5.

baitcast - 4-23-2009 at 04:50 PM

Mr Bill you were a johnie come lately on the road from hell,64 found I and my family and a friend on the last climb,vw bus and no sense,kept getting hung up on the last step and would have to back down:O finally made everyone get out and walk up,just my wife wanted to do in the first place:lol:

After I got a big old power-wagon I looked forward to the drive I always felt like Daniel Boone.
Rob

I knew after that first trip what Lewis and Clark must have felt like:lol:

[Edited on 4-23-2009 by baitcast]

[Edited on 4-23-2009 by baitcast]

Better Late Than Never

MrBillM - 4-23-2009 at 07:03 PM

In '64, at Nineteen, my interests in Baja were mostly in Tijuana with a few fishing trips to Ensenada. I first visited the Gulf side (San Felipe) Thanksgiving of '66 to ride dirt bikes. I found the town woefully short of the Fun attractions of Tijuana.

No Horse Racing, No Jai Alai and No Chicas. Well, none like Tijuana and I looked in earnest.

It's ironic that I came to spend so much time down there. Moving to Indio in '70 had a lot to do with it.

Still, I'm glad to have experienced the Old Road before it was gone.

freediverbrian - 4-23-2009 at 08:42 PM

If the road comes it comes . And it will , but the work sites for the road are a blight on the desert, acres of desert are scraped and temp roads are built during . and the roads and sites will be barren for years . Just look at hwy 1 the scares are still there 30 years later . And they are worse for hwy 5 . I hope there is a plan for repare the damage but I doubt it .

redhilltown - 4-24-2009 at 09:44 AM

Gotta say, the concept of the new road as an alternative to Highway 1 for those heading south out of Mexicali sure makes the most sense...not that I look FORWARD to margaritas at Alfonsina's with big rigs air braking in the background but it seems most people are just DONE WITH the old road and who is to blame them. An interesting thing mentioned earlier is that there are curbs and berms on the sides (so far) of the road. It looks like it is up to the developers and builders as to who gets an "off ramp"...not like most of Hwy 1 where you simply pull off anywhere.

David K, that 1970 map is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cool. Thanks.

Cypress - 4-24-2009 at 12:05 PM

Yea, the road (HWY 5) had my wife in tears and she doesn't cry easily. Good thing it was dark.:lol: No problems running into cattle etc. as we couldn't go over 10 MPH and there was zero traffic.:lol: If you haven't been thru there, do it before it's paved.:bounce: It's an adventure.:bounce:

David K - 4-24-2009 at 03:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by redhilltown
... David K, that 1970 map is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cool. Thanks.


El gusto es mio!

Here's another (1962 Howard Gulick Map, Lower California Guidebook):


From the 1975 revised Baja California Guidebook:


Now, way before cars... 1788 map:



Welcome to Baja Nomad!

David K - 4-24-2009 at 04:21 PM

Close up, 1962 map:


Close up, 1975 map:


Close up, 1930 map:

Natalie Ann - 4-24-2009 at 05:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by redhilltown
...margaritas at Alfonsina's with big rigs air braking in the background....

Wash your mouth with soap!

Some of us could never by choice "be done" with that old road.

Nena

Salsa - 4-24-2009 at 08:18 PM

I went over the hard part in 1980 or so on a motorcycle. There was a 12-16 inch step at the top transition to the paved few feet. I cane back on that trip with no 2nd gear flying.

A year or two later the road bypassed the good part.

Does anyone know what year the bypass went in?

Don

David K - 4-25-2009 at 06:53 AM

The new graded road/'dirt highway' south of Puertecitos was built in '85 & '86... for several years it was like a highway and passenger cars and motorhomes could easily drive to Gonzaga from Puertecitos. Since then, only after the road graded rescraped the washboard or fixed the washouts... After the Baja 1000 and the flashfloods of late 2005, it was never repaired... and became a slow, miserable road (once again). The road from Gonzaga south to Chapala has been maintained, however.

[Edited on 4-25-2009 by David K]