BajaNomad - Rant on snooty ex-pats

Rant on snooty ex-pats

Santiago - 5-1-2009 at 10:59 AM

I suppose I can chalk it up to normal human behavior but over the last few years I’ve become aware that there is a small but significant population of folks who consider themselves way better than me. I’ve developed a snooty index that goes something like this (answer ‘true’ or ‘false’):

South is better than north.
Pacific side to East Cape is better than SOC
Fido is better than leased.
Beach front is way, way better than, well everything else.
Full-time is better than snow bird is better than occasional visitor.
Snow bird with cabin in Alaska is better than anyone on the planet.
Fiberglass hull with extreme dead-rise is better than aluminum.
Center console is better than tiller.
Custom ordered panga is better than used bought from a local.
Diesel is better than gas.
1 ton is better than ¾ is better than 1/2 is better than a car.
Graphite is better than a fiberglass Uglystick.
Custom wrapped is better than factory wrapped.
Braid is better than mono.
2 speed lever-drag is better than one speed star drag.
Trolling all day at the 100 fathom mark is better than inshore.
Original Amigos poster is better than Nomad poster.
Pacifico is better than Tecate is better than Modelo light.
Having shared a beer with Graham is better than not.
Driving the road pre-pavement is better than never having done so.
Saying Mexico is S.O.S. is better than celebrating the differences.
Hiding a pistol in the cab where it won’t be found but you can grab it real quick is better than driving ‘naked’.

This all came to a head after meeting a stranger at a café going the opposite direction than me. As we both were traveling alone, we struck up a conversation that soon had me wallowing in self-pity and shame as I was made to realize, very subtly but surely, I was doing everything the wrong way in Baja but it just so happened that he was doing everything the right way. I suppose if you drive a diesel, have fished the entire peninsula for over 30 years and finally settled in Abreojos because it’s the only place yet to be gringo-ized, then you win – you really are better than me.

To be honest, I took the quiz myself and had a pretty high “true” score. I just hope than when I meet some poor slob who has a trailer in San Felipe for the winter before heading home to Kansas for the summer I won’t say “oh” and move to another table on the opposite side of the room. Afterall, might could be a nice guy. :cool:

DENNIS - 5-1-2009 at 11:10 AM

Good observations. It's hard to imagine that such a rustic place as Baja could breed such snobbishness. [Is that a word]

BajaGringo - 5-1-2009 at 11:41 AM

There is something to be said for that "snooty index". I figure the "snobbishness" comes from folks who need to find ways to validate their decision to do what they do and where they do it. Generally because they don't have enough self-confidence to decide for themselves what is right and what isn't.

What I do down here, where I do it and in what manner I do it is just what it is. I couldn't give a burro's patoony what anybody else thinks or if it makes sense to them. In fact I hope most folks DON'T want to do things the way I do.

I really enjoy the solitude...

vgabndo - 5-1-2009 at 11:42 AM

Santiago...thanks for exposing another of my "shadows". (That which I hide, repress or deny). I find myself talking about the 32 times I've been over the Baja highway. Right! Those are one-ways Sixteen isn't enough. I have to make it sound like more. Thirty-two ain't squat compared to the more fortunate among us, but it damned sure is nothing to be ashamed of. So my truth is I fish (joyfully) with WalMart equipment. I drive an old truck with 160,000 miles. I've never ever been to BOLA, and may not need to go. I have never seen a live fish with a bill. I can't conjugate Spanish verbs in the future or conditional and several other tenses.
I love the place more than even I know, and it gives me great pleasure to say to my friends: En mi corazon soy un parte Mexicano.

IMG_0225.JPG - 28kB

Be very careful

Sharksbaja - 5-1-2009 at 11:45 AM

Quote:

"Afterall, might could be a nice guy"

Or Jesus Christ,

No,it's ok

Sharksbaja - 5-1-2009 at 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago

South is better than north.
Pacific side to East Cape is better than SOC
Fido is better than leased.
Beach front is way, way better than, well everything else.
Full-time is better than snow bird is better than occasional visitor.
Snow bird with cabin in Alaska is better than anyone on the planet.
Fiberglass hull with extreme dead-rise is better than aluminum.
Center console is better than tiller.
Custom ordered panga is better than used bought from a local.
Diesel is better than gas.
1 ton is better than ¾ is better than 1/2 is better than a car.
Graphite is better than a fiberglass Uglystick.
Custom wrapped is better than factory wrapped.
Braid is better than mono.
2 speed lever-drag is better than one speed star drag.
Trolling all day at the 100 fathom mark is better than inshore.
Original Amigos poster is better than Nomad poster.
Pacifico is better than Tecate is better than Modelo light.
Having shared a beer with Graham is better than not.
Driving the road pre-pavement is better than never having done so.
Saying Mexico is S.O.S. is better than celebrating the differences.
Hiding a pistol in the cab where it won’t be found but you can grab it real quick is better than driving ‘naked’.

It's ok to have any or all that stuff but my dog is still better than yours.

El Camote - 5-1-2009 at 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago
. I just hope than when I meet some poor slob who has a trailer in San Felipe for the winter before heading home to Kansas for the summer I won’t say “oh” and move to another table on the opposite side of the room. Afterall, might could be a nice guy. :cool:

From the APSTSF, Association of Poor Slobs with Trailers in San Felipe ,we collectively say, "Hey, we resemble that remark!"

:lol:

jbcoug - 5-1-2009 at 01:11 PM

Quote:

It's ok to have any or all that stuff but my dog is still better than yours.

Sharksbaja,

At least you have your priorities in order!

jbcoug

Alan - 5-1-2009 at 01:16 PM

South is better than north. - Meets my needs better

Pacific side to East Cape is better than SOC - Surfing yes, Fishing no

Fido is better than leased. - Depends on what you have invested

Beach front is way, way better than, well everything else. - For me yes

Full-time is better than snow bird is better than occasional visitor. - disagee

Snow bird with cabin in Alaska is better than anyone on the planet. - You couldn't drag me to Alaska

Fiberglass hull with extreme dead-rise is better than aluminum. - only for cruising, not fishing

Center console is better than tiller. Personal preference

Custom ordered panga is better than used bought from a local. Still looking for a good used one

Diesel is better than gas. I like the torque and the mileage

1 ton is better than ¾ is better than 1/2 is better than a car. 3/4 handles my needs without beating myself to death with a one ton

Graphite is better than a fiberglass Uglystick. Have both

Custom wrapped is better than factory wrapped. I like to wrap rods when I can't fish

Braid is better than mono. Not from your own boat and can chase your fish

2 speed lever-drag is better than one speed star drag. Trolling yes, casting no

Trolling all day at the 100 fathom mark is better than inshore. Not if you're looking for dinner

Original Amigos poster is better than Nomad poster. No comment

Pacifico is better than Tecate is better than Modelo light. Definitely

Having shared a beer with Graham is better than not. Was he buying?

Driving the road pre-pavement is better than never having done so. Pre or post pavement it is worth doing at least once

Saying Mexico is S.O.S. is better than celebrating the differences. Who the loser here?

Hiding a pistol in the cab where it won’t be found but you can grab it real quick is better than driving ‘naked’. My preference is to be naked in my car rather than naked in a jail cell with Julio for the rest of my life!

You need to work on your confidence factor. Why do you assume you are doing things wrong just because he is doing what is right for him. Remember your question about celebrating differences.

For me its like trying to find the perfect boat - it doesn't exist, everything is a compromise. At least until they develop a 60' battlewagon that can fish the Hurricane Bank and then morph into a 14' aluminum to fish the mangroves.

[Edited on 5-1-2009 by Alan]

Bajaboy - 5-1-2009 at 01:18 PM

Hey Santiago,

Good post! I've always conveyed to friends that my opinions regarding Baja reflect my experiences. Too often, I hear people on this board or in conversation make blanket statements of truth. Drives me crazy.....

Zac

BajaGringo - 5-1-2009 at 01:29 PM

Sorry Alan, but you just don't have what it takes to make the snooty list.

:biggrin:

Dear Alan

Gypsy Jan - 5-1-2009 at 01:35 PM

If there are pictures of you naked with Julio, post them on UTube and you will be able to make bail. :lol:

BajaGringo - 5-1-2009 at 01:42 PM

:lol:

Cypress - 5-1-2009 at 01:49 PM

Jeez! This covers a lot of ground. Alaska to Baja! That includes one heck of a lot of water and many road miles.

Alan - 5-1-2009 at 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
If there are pictures of you naked with Julio, post them on UTube and you will be able to make bail. :lol:

I don't carry a gun so there won't be any pictures with Julio.

Besides, you couldn't handle naked pictures of me! Trust me, you really couldn't. Even my wife has difficulty.

[Edited on 5-1-2009 by Alan]

Sandy Cay small.jpg - 41kB

Osprey - 5-1-2009 at 02:29 PM

Very difficult for me to cop a snooty attitude because I was raised in the swamps of South Florida, grew up on nothin but wienie water and right now you couldn't hire me to be the way I am.

Cypress - 5-1-2009 at 02:41 PM

Osprey! Yea!

Hook - 5-1-2009 at 02:55 PM

That is a classic list................one of my top ten posts!!

fishbuck - 5-1-2009 at 02:59 PM

It's a funny thing. My guess is there might be "more than one way to skin a cat". And the person gets to choose which way they like best.
Something about personal freedom and choice I think.
To each his own.
Different strokes for different folks
etc...etc... :cool:

[Edited on 5-1-2009 by fishbuck]

Paula - 5-1-2009 at 03:12 PM

OK.... dog's name is Fillmore, not Fido, and he's rarely leashed. Live in Loreto Centro, have a house in Montana too, but I'm NOT a snowbird. Custom Diaz panga, center console, don't fish but my husband does. Like my bacon wrapped hotdogs done by hand, not at a factory. Drink only white wine. Prefer Bruce Berger's books, don't know why he's never bought me a beer. Drive a Honda CR-V, like to drive it on dirt roads better than The Road. Do not like guns. Get many compliments on my excellent Spanish. And I'm defineitely one of the ten coolest people in Baja :dudette:

tripledigitken - 5-1-2009 at 03:18 PM

Paula,

The thing that kept you out of the snotty camp are the BACON WRAPPED HOTDOGS! The true acid test in choosing
Baja friends. :lol:

Ken

Alan - 5-1-2009 at 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
Paula,

The thing that kept you out of the snotty camp are the BACON WRAPPED HOTDOGS! The true acid test in choosing
Baja friends. :lol:

Ken

Is "snotty camp" kind of like the Ronald McDonald house for kids with the flu instead of cancer?

Santiago's list

toneart - 5-1-2009 at 03:33 PM

covers a lot of personal preferences. No preference is invalid unless it is illegal. I think what Santiago is lamenting are some peoples attitudes regarding their personal preferences. I believe my preferences are better for me, but would never presume to tell another that they are better unless I am trying to be constructive, and the other party agrees to the rules of being friendly co-spirits.

Som people come on like know-it-alls with attitude. They are boors.

However,I do make exceptions for my set-in-concrete opinions about wine, women and song. I KNOW mine are the best :smug:

shari - 5-1-2009 at 03:34 PM

Randy Snotty ex-pats :saint:

...hmmm...interesting combination! :biggrin:

Santiago...eres chingon mano! no se preocupe por nada.

danaeb - 5-1-2009 at 03:37 PM

Oh yeah. And we haven't even talked about the Canadians yet.

fishbuck - 5-1-2009 at 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by danaeb
Oh yeah. And we haven't even talked about the Canadians yet.

Do we have to?

DianaT - 5-1-2009 at 03:42 PM

Suppose we could all create such a list, but why? It is always just a matter of opinion---

Now, unless we are talking about the dogs! No question who has the best dogs.

:lol:

Diane

shari - 5-1-2009 at 03:42 PM

bring it on ya hoser!

Santiago - 5-1-2009 at 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
Randy Snotty ex-pats :saint:

...hmmm...interesting combination! :biggrin:

Santiago...eres chingon mano! no se preocupe por nada.

How did 'randy' get in here? does that mean the same in Canadian as in 'merican? And it's SNOOTY - not SNOTTY.
I can't find a dictionary with CHINGON in it - is it a bad word?

Paula - 5-1-2009 at 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by morgaine7

Quote:

Originally posted by Paula
And I'm defineitely one of the ten coolest people in Baja :dudette:

Hey Paula, who are the other eight? :biggrin:

Kate

Only you know and I know, Kate

BajaGringo - 5-1-2009 at 03:59 PM

You mean I got left out, AGAIN????

:?:

fdt - 5-1-2009 at 04:00 PM

motoged - 5-1-2009 at 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by danaeb
Oh yeah. And we haven't even talked about the Canadians yet.

So don't start now or your name will be added to the Pendejo List....you have plenty to get self-righteous about with the ex-pats from the US....

You might find my wit an easy challenge, but once Shari gets a hold on you.....well, just be forewarned :lol:

Santiago - 5-1-2009 at 04:02 PM

Osprey: I hear ya and even though you probably meet a bunch of the criteria, there's just no way you'd be a snooty guy. No way.
By the way, I've been to South Florida a couple of times and thought I had every drink they made - what's weinie water? :?:

motoged - 5-1-2009 at 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago

I can't find a dictionary with CHINGON in it - is it a bad word?

Santiago....let your fingers do the walking....http://www.urbandictionary.com

danaeb - 5-1-2009 at 04:06 PM

Now Shari - I don't know. I think she gave up her Canadian creds. She's now officially a mexicana, no? :yes:

El Camote - 5-1-2009 at 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago
By the way, I've been to South Florida a couple of times and thought I had every drink they made - what's weinie water? :?:

If it's a euphemism employed by "Julio", you don't want to know!

BajaGringo - 5-1-2009 at 05:00 PM

So is she Canadian-Mexican or Mexican-Canadian???

gnukid - 5-1-2009 at 05:03 PM

I just completed a bottom to top commute and the one thing that stuck out was the extremely offensive, ignorant, self-centered gringos. This must the reason that gringos have a horrible reputation in Baja. The lack of understanding and respect for Baja's people, it's origins, culture and art is something unforgivable in particular in expats, many of which are nomads among us.

Gnukid: Hey I just met an indian who makes cool carved masks.
Gringo Nomad: There are indians in Baja?

Gnukid: Yes they make and sell art crafts at the tienda there on the street where you live.
Gringo Nomad: Its crap right?

Gnukid: Why don't you take a look.
Gringo Nomad: Oh no, our home is designed by Johnny Jones from Malibu and he isn't here now so I can't ask him if its okay to put that stuff in the house.

Gnukid: Hmmm well you might take a look.
Gringo Nomad: No thanks.

Gnukid: Hey did you get a chance to see the traditional cave paintings, there are many.
Gringo Nomad: No. There weren't indians in Baja were there really?

Gnukid: Hey did you know there is a traditional dance celebration in the town square tonight?
Gringo Nomad: They will probably rob and steal from me and I don't like the music-its too loud.

Gnukid: Perhaps you might like to go to the quinceria of your neighbors daughter Lupita, she is turning 15 this weekend and everyone is invited.
Gringo Nomad: I don't like the music or the food and I don't speak spanish.

Gnukid: Hmmm. Is there anything about Baja you like?
Gringo Nomad: Yes I enjoy hamburgers and karaoke at the gringo bar.

Gnukid: Do you want try some scallops and shrimp ceviche, Juanito brought some by just now as a welcoming gift.
Gringo Nomad: Oh no, I don't trust mexican food I prefer to bring all my food from the States. I even have tv dinners still frozen in my huge freezer from last year.

Gnukid: Golly, is there any chance you might want to visit the teatro, there is a free exhibit of local dia de muertos art this weekend?
Gringo Nomad: Hahaha Mexican Art, Hahahaha you have got to be kidding?

Gnukid: Oh well, did you see Ephraim is selling fresh veggies and bread door to door, its great stuff and fresh.
Gringo Nomad: I can't eat mexican food besides its all poisoned by salmonella I heard, isn't it.

Its quite a shock. I met so many gringos who live in Baja yet have no idea nor any interest in just about practically anything about Baja. Especially those "baja wheel chair" riders in their quads who fire up to ride 20 feet. Worse of all yet, gringo communities like Barriles and Todos for example, full of ex-pats who completely offend and insult Mexicans by looking down at them, those same Mexicans who in fact sold their land to gringos, built their homes, maintain them, tend their gardens, cook their food etc...

Those expats who actually believe they are better than others because their house is bigger and their car is newer, they are such an offense to Baja sensibilities, such a bore, so horrifically rude and inconsiderate to Mexicans, who could wonder why they are among the most hated and despised of all and why that prejudice passes down through generations and encourages division. Or who can wonder why Mexicans can easily justify ripping them off when they act so stupidly?

If the revolution comes which affects extranjero ownership, if it comes to blows between Mexicans and Gringos it will be because of these insular gringo idiots who have few topics of discussion-themselves, their homes, sat tv, and why they are better than others.

Its pretty sad especially when the truth is the food in mexico is among the most tasty and healthy you will ever find, the people are the most kind and generous, the art is so rich and the music so true, the community and family such a beautiful and integral part of life.

Its time for the Gringo Nomad community to step it up and participate, reach out, open up and get involved in Baja.

[Edited on 5-2-2009 by gnukid]

Osprey - 5-1-2009 at 05:06 PM

We lived low to the ground down there. I knew I would one day be a superior person because of what happened when my Uncle-daddy Bobby Earl and I took the wheels (almost completely) off our house and put metal all around to hide the innard. I'm not real clear on that idea now but he seemed pleased as hell. He gave me a Lucky Lager all my own and smiled. Later in the day I was not so skippy-happy when some Puerto Ricos came by in a fancy car and made fun of us.

jeans - 5-1-2009 at 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago
I've become aware that there is a small but significant population of folks who consider themselves way better than me.

[Edited on 5-1-2009 by jeans to say "Nevermind"]

DanO - 5-1-2009 at 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
We lived low to the ground down there. I knew I would one day be a superior person because of what happened when my Uncle-daddy Bobby Earl and I took the wheels (almost completely) off our house and put metal all around to hide the innard. I'm not real clear on that idea now but he seemed pleased as hell. He gave me a Lucky Lager all my own and smiled. Later in the day I was not so skippy-happy when some Puerto Ricos came by in a fancy car and made fun of us.

There you go again George. Poetry.

Mike99km - 5-1-2009 at 05:57 PM

I love your list. I have heard it for years.
We call the snooty ones "The little roosters". At a surf spot they'll tell you they been coming for ?? number of years. How they are "whatever". They will start to turn around and flap they wings like the chicken hawk in the old cartoons. Sometimes I just love to egg them on.
I love Baja and the people that live there from both sides of the boarder.
When I here something is the best and why, I know that is just the reason somebody else hates it.
Thanks for starting this thread

24baja - 5-1-2009 at 06:03 PM

Nice tan Alan.....where is Julio?

BajaGringo - 5-1-2009 at 06:05 PM

Julio is getting his nails done...

24baja - 5-1-2009 at 06:17 PM

oh well at least he's manicured, we could hope other areas are as clean!

bajajudy - 5-1-2009 at 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paula
And I'm defineitely one of the ten coolest people in Baja :dudette:

Oh no you are not. I have been here longer, eaten more side of the road tacos, actually eat tacos de cabeza, have dogs named mochi, eta and pops who are all puro mexicano, can see the beach from my place, blah blah blah
AND I can spell definitely :lol:

love ya

Kate yea right
love ya too

estebanis - 5-1-2009 at 06:29 PM

I certainly agree with the Fishing Standards just wish I could meet them ($$$)! I figure you have to go through around a hundred A-holes to meet one of the "Readers Digest" Memorable people! Being able to spend time with and get to know people that are the gems is worth all of the B.S. with the snobs. I prefer to spend most of my precious baja time with the locals I just love how much joy they have. Most of them have nothing but are much happier than any of the folks I run into here in Orange County.
Esteban

[Edited on 5-2-2009 by estebanis]

[Edited on 5-2-2009 by estebanis]

Paula - 5-1-2009 at 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajajudy

Quote:

Originally posted by Paula
And I'm defineitely one of the ten coolest people in Baja :dudette:

love ya

Kate yea right
love ya too

Hey! I can spell, I just can't ttype!

And there's definitely room at the top for the three of us, and several others too!

love ya back

Gypsy Jan - 5-1-2009 at 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
I just completed a bottom to top commute and the one thing that stuck out was the extremely offensive, ignorant, self-centered gringos. This must the reason that gringos have a horrible reputation in Baja. The lack of understanding and respect for Baja's people, it's origins, culture and art is something unforgivable in particular in expats, many of which are nomads among us.

Gnukid: Hey I just met an indian who makes cool carved masks.
Gringo Nomad: There are indians in Baja?

Gnukid: Yes they make and sell art crafts at the tienda there on the street where you live.
Gringo Nomad: Its crap right?

Gnukid: Why don't you take a look.
Gringo Nomad: Oh no, our home is designed by Johnny Jones from Malibu and he isn't here now so I can't ask him if its okay to put that stuff in the house.

Gnukid: Hmmm well you might take a look.
Gringo Nomad: No thanks.

Gnukid: Hey did you get a chance to see the traditional cave paintings, they are many.
Gringo Nomad: No. There weren't indians in Baja were there really?

Gnukid: Hey did you know there is a traditional dance celebration in the town square tonight?
Gringo Nomad: They will probably rob and steal from me and I don't like the music-its too loud.

Gnukid: Perhaps you might like to go to the quinceria of your neighbors daughter Lupita, she is turning 15 this weekend and everyone is invited.
Gringo Nomad: I don't like the music or the food and I don't speak spanish.

Gnukid: Hmmm. Is there anything about Baja you like?
Gringo Nomad: Yes I enjoy hamburgers and karaoke at the gringo bar.

Gnukid: Do you want try some scallops and shrimp ceviche, Juanito brought some by just now as a welcoming gift.
Gringo Nomad: Oh no, I don't trust mexican food I prefer to bring all my food from the States. I even have tv dinners still frozen in my huge freezer from last year.

Gnukid: Golly, is there any chance you might want to visit the teatro, there is a free exhibit of local dia de muertos art this weekend?
Gringo Nomad: Hahaha Mexican Art, Hahahaha you have got to be kidding?

Gnukid: Oh well, did you see Ephraim is selling fresh veggies and bread door to door, its great stuff and fresh.
Gringo Nomad: I can't eat mexican food besides its all poisoned by salmonella I heard, isn't it.

Its quite a shock. I met so many gringos who live in Baja yet have no idea nor any interest in just about practically anything about Baja. Especially those "baja wheel chair" riders in their quads who fire up to ride 20 feet. Worse of all yet, gringo communities like Barriles and Todos for example, full of ex-pats who completely offend and insult Mexicans by looking down at them, those same Mexicans who in fact sold their land to gringos, built their homes, maintain them, tend their gardens, cook their food etc...

Those expats who actually believe they are better than others because their house is bigger and their car is newer, they are such an offense to Baja sensibilities, such a bore, so horrifically rude and inconsiderate to Mexicans, who could wonder why they are among the most hated and despised of all and why that prejudice passes down through generations and encourages division. Or who can wonder why Mexicans can easily justify ripping them off when they act so stupidly?

If the revolution comes which affects extranjero ownership, if it comes to blows between Mexicans and Gringos it will be because of these insular gringo idiots who have few topics of discussion-themselves, their homes, sat tv, and why they are better than others.

Its pretty sad especially when the truth is the food in mexico is among the most tasty and healthy you will ever find, the people are the most kind and generous, the art is so rich and the music so true, the community and family such a beautiful and integral part of life.

Its time for the Gringo Nomad community to step it up and participate, reach out, open up and get involved in Baja.

A greater worldview would benefit all of us, even if we never leave our neighborhoods.

capn.sharky - 5-1-2009 at 08:51 PM

I really don't give a crap what anyone does or thinks---just don't dis the Mexicans. Also, don't try to push your beliefs off on me. Other than that, I could care less about gringos in Baja. Okay?

gnukid - 5-1-2009 at 10:18 PM

"I really don't give a crap what anyone does or thinks---just don't dis the Mexicans. Also, don't try to push your beliefs off on me. Other than that, I could care less about gringos in Baja. Okay?"

No not okay.

What makes you so defensive???

Bad Gringo behaviour is an issue that affects all of us greatly.

That fact is that Gringos are creating a hostile enviornment through their actions, they are often too rude, self centered, egotistical, arrogant and totally ignorant of their suroundings and offensive (care to add anything)?

Our collective impression is something worth discussing and as often as necessary to reduce the negative impact on everyone. So as much as you want to squash open dialogue, you are going to learn your behavior affects everyone around you, especially so when you are rude, nor can we expect to continue to live in a manner where we offend our hosts so often without suffering dearly for it. Perhaps to the point where we lose our right to visit freely.

Basically here's a suggestion, "do not come to our Baja and act like a total self-centered arrogant Jerk."

Prejudice is based in misunderstanding, understandably so starting with Gringos lack of understanding of the people and culture of Baja.

We are community and we must reach out to each other, or suffer significant divisions.

Apparently we are the source of much of the problems in Baja, we are a source of hostility. Time to find out why? Why are so many Gringos so unwilling to get to know their surroundings? Why do Gringos need to feel better than others? What's the source of this flaw? Is it based in a weakness and what can we do to become better guests. How can we as a group make a better impression and change the perception that Gringos are jerks.

I know not everyone here is a jerk but far too many are and that's obvious.

My impulse to write here was based in a desire for greater consideration, openness, understanding and kindness where its lacking. Not only that, but to engage and enjoy Mexico is really the greatest gift Mexico has to offer, perhaps many don't realize or are scared or have other reasons to be so unwilling to accept and get to know Baja and its people who are truly fantastic.

Mexico is likely the greatest country in the world today and with the most potential. The people are among its greatest resource. Whats up with Gringos who have no interest in their surroundings?

Perhaps there is a better way for me to approach this, but the point that is clear is that this cultural division problem is really sad and incredibly overwhelmingly negative to our community. That is, Gringos might want to consider that they are in general perceived as incredibly ignorant and arrogant and not very nice people.

Bajahowodd - 5-1-2009 at 11:00 PM

It's far worse on the mainland. Just outside Guadalajara, by Lake Chapala, there are walled and gated communities of gringos, who maintain their own social network and are totally insular. They have their own shopping and medical facilities. They could be on the moon, if you can get Direct TV on the moon. I can absolutely understand why Mexicans might have a bone to pick.

Mango - 5-1-2009 at 11:04 PM

gnukid,

I agree with a lot you are saying. I think it would be good for many here to get out of their air conditioned RV with satellite unlink and travel via bus, ride in a combi people going to market, and meet/live with the locals.

All that being said. I am often very surprised at where/what/how many people here on BajaNomads have traveled in Mexico and Latin America. Really - some people here have done some amazing stuff and have developed amazing relationships with the locals. Some of the knowledge and understanding is truly amazing. On the flip side, ignorance, lack of compassion, or understanding is also very prevalent.. not only in regards to Mexico or Mexicans.. but in regards to humanity in general.

IMO - Baja suffers more than any other region in Mexico from gringos that do not make enough of an attempt to respect and learn about the people, culture, and languages of Mexico. This has more to do with the proximity to the USA and the sparseness of Mexican settlements/culture that makes it easy for people to avoid of limit their interactions.

I once met a tourist that was upset that the locals didn't learn English so she could have an easier time when she traveled to PV. I asked her how well she was able to talk to the French and Germans in their native language that traveled to the USA. I mean really.. can we say self-centered and selfish? :lol:

I know a few words of Nahuatl, Mixtec, and Zapotec and use them in the appropriate regions of Mexico. To me, it is important to be able to greet someone in their native tongue when out for a hike in the forest. When you are able to say hello to a 70 year old man who does not know any Spanish in formal Zapotec, it not only blows his mind.. it shows an insane amount of respect for him, his culture, and his ancestors.

I think we need to start our own "Compassionate Cultural Worldly" exclusive club and use double-reverse-inverse-psychology to further it's aggenda.
:light:

lesliego - 5-2-2009 at 03:34 AM

Oh Mango, you give me goosebumps. I want to meet you, I think you have it right, no, I know you have it right. I was married to a Chilango for 5 years and learned to call his father papa. He called me hija; how I wish I could hear his voice calling to me "va" his catch-all for any occaison, or "quiero opinar una cosa" and all of us responding every time "si apa, que quieres opinar?" it was a joke, but such a loving one...

Santiago - 5-2-2009 at 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lesliego
Oh Mango, you give me goosebumps.

OK - this has gone on long enough: I'm officially closing this thread.....sheeeesh. :cool:

On a final note, the rude guy I met was from CSL, not Abreojos. All you Abreojos guys can stop U2U'ing me now.

vandy - 5-2-2009 at 06:12 AM

Of course, there's the opposite snobbery...minimal impact people:

Pacific side to East Cape is better than SOC
>>>In hot weather, Pacific or mountains; in cold weather, SOC

Fido is better than leased.
>>>don't build...just enjoy!

Beach front is way, way better than, well everything else.
>>>You mean to build your POS house on, block access, ruin the scenery?

Full-time is better than snow bird is better than occasional visitor.
>>>Learn to say it in Spanish, and I'll listen to anything

Snow bird with cabin in Alaska is better than anyone on the planet.
>>>ditto

Fiberglass hull with extreme dead-rise is better than aluminum.
>>>You mean to row?

Center console is better than tiller.
>>>depends on what you're sailing

Custom ordered panga is better than used bought from a local.
>>>Aren't those hard to paddle?

Diesel is better than gas.
>>>You mean like Vin vs. beans? I choose beans

1 ton is better than ¾ is better than 1/2 is better than a car.
>>>Man, you guys are getting seriously fat! Try a bicycle.

Graphite is better than a fiberglass Uglystick.
>>>Handline. Mexicans aren't stupid. Try it

Custom wrapped is better than factory wrapped.
>>>Condoms or doobies? Tamales?

Braid is better than mono.
>>>dreads, definitely, before that kissing disease

2 speed lever-drag is better than one speed star drag.
>>>drag is drag; dress however you want

Trolling all day at the 100 fathom mark is better than inshore.
>>>I dunno. Lots of babes out there?

Pacifico is better than Tecate is better than Modelo light.
>>>You don't brew your own?

Having shared a beer with Graham is better than not.
>>>Sharing's good

Driving the road pre-pavement is better than never having done so.
>>>Ride a bicycle

Saying Mexico is S.O.S. is better than celebrating the differences.
>>>differences?

Hiding a pistol in the cab where it won’t be found but you can grab it real quick is better than driving ‘naked’.
>>>Again, riding a bicycle, even naked, stashing it in your caboose could be painful

Have a good time, y'all. Feel free to motor on up to my kayak if you see me being towed out to sea this summer

[Edited on 5-2-2009 by vandy]

Osprey - 5-2-2009 at 06:28 AM

Santiago, can't close the thread until I answer your question about Wienie Water. My ma worked as a maid for some rich people just down the road from our village, Redbone Slough. Once a week they would have a party for friends, cook up some hotdogs, afterwards give the water to us kids.

fdt - 5-2-2009 at 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandy
>>>Again, riding a bicycle, even naked, stashing it in your caboose could be painful

What about Julio?

Santiago - 5-2-2009 at 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
Santiago, can't close the thread until I answer your question about Wienie Water. My ma worked as a maid for some rich people just down the road from our village, Redbone Slough. Once a week they would have a party for friends, cook up some hotdogs, afterwards give the water to us kids.

Wow-I grew up in Bakersfield, for goodness sakes, and can't beat that one. Best I can do is begging for ice from the milk man on hot summer days.

BajaGringo - 5-2-2009 at 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago
Wow-I grew up in Bakersfield, for goodness sakes, and can't beat that one. Best I can do is begging for ice from the milk man on hot summer days.

You should have just gone and hung out at the old ice plant at Chester and 34th street. I heard stories of kids helping the drivers load the trucks just to cool off in July and August...

Packoderm - 5-2-2009 at 10:09 AM

I can empathize with all of your comments and concerns - even though you seem to be describing extreme cases. Still, it seems to be a "Slobs vs. the Snobs" sort of thing going on - just like on the movie Caddyshack. Remember, the character played by Rodney Dangerfield was a cool "slob" despite his wealth. As for the snobs, we have these types of people everywhere - even Mexicans in Mexico, but in Baja, it's hard to get away from them unless you're willing to travel a long way down a bumpy road to somewhere where there's no airstrip or yacht harbor. The more humble Americans generally cannot afford international travel and retirement living, so it's the richer people who are our default ambassadors for better or worse. But to be honest, I've encountered some pilots hanging out around Rancho Grande in Gonzaga who couldn't be more down to earth despite their big bucks. It seems that it's the one's who are struggling toward or freshly arrived to yuppie status are the ones most likely to offend the offendable (muw). When I encounter the rude types you describe, I just try to be friendly, and they're usually friendly enough back. Anyway, they might be secretly a bit envious of those who are more at ease, fit in, and have fun when interacting with locals while they travel.

BajaGringo - 5-2-2009 at 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Packoderm
Anyway, they might be secretly a bit envious of those who are more at ease, fit in, and have fun when interacting with locals while they travel.

I agree completely...

:smug:

Pescador - 5-2-2009 at 10:27 AM

When I went to college in southern Colorado, we were in an area that was literally inundated in the summer time with Texans who were on vacation. they were literally the most obnoxious, insensentive, loudmouthed, and socially unacceptable people I had ever met. I started to develop a perception of how Texans were from that limited experience and it was not until I was able to travel to Texas on business after graduation, that I found some of the most friendly, accomidating, sincere, and genuine people I had ever met. I guess, on reflection, that it was because all of the bad ones had gone to Colorado.
So maybe the US is a better place to live since all of these bad ones have moved to Baja.

Bajajack - 5-2-2009 at 11:16 AM

Snooty, nah, if you're Educated and well off and consider yourself a notch or 10 above the local peasants then more power to you.

You worked for it, you earned it, so enjoy it.

I got no problem with that.

rpleger - 5-2-2009 at 11:29 AM

If you are educated and well off you shoudn't have to feel more important or better than anyone.

Bajahowodd - 5-2-2009 at 11:32 AM

Unless you still have feelings of inadequacy.

Sharksbaja - 5-2-2009 at 11:36 AM

That would be the middle-aged, never had kids type. Me me me, I, I, I, my, my,my....

Bajajack - 5-2-2009 at 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
That would be the middle-aged, never had kids type. Me me me, I, I, I, my, my,my....

Hell yes, why not, you only live once, take advantage of it. :lol:

DanO - 5-2-2009 at 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rpleger
If you are educated and well off you shoudn't have to feel more important or better than anyone.

Ding! Give that man a cigar.

You earned it, now enjoy it.

Dave - 5-2-2009 at 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajack
Snooty, nah, if you're Educated and well off and consider yourself a notch or 10 above the local peasants then more power to you.

You worked for it, you earned it, so enjoy it.

I got no problem with that.

Bajajack believes that Mexicans are the world's lowest of primitives and that Mexico exports women with mustaches and VD.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=38513

Bajajack - 5-2-2009 at 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Bajajack believes that Mexicans are the world's lowest of primitives and that Mexico exports women with mustaches and VD.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=38513

How true and BTW I'm still waiting for your response.

bajabillybob - 5-2-2009 at 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Bajajack believes that Mexicans are the world's lowest of primitives and that Mexico exports women with mustaches and VD.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=38513

Dave,

What a weenie you are. How come I get the feeling you were the first to tell the teacher who was being bad in class.

DENNIS - 5-2-2009 at 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by morgaine7
Well, eventually the Ugly Expats are bound to run into their counterparts from Ajijic or San Miguel de Allende who will insist that the Baja peninsula isn't even "real Mexico".

They, and they're Chilango cohorts refer to Baja as "The Provences." If these snobs were anything close to being somebody, I may wonder but. they arn't and I don't.

Udo - 5-2-2009 at 01:29 PM

I'm just glad I'm friends with Osprey!
Dennis K understands, huh?

dtbushpilot - 5-2-2009 at 01:56 PM

I'm not snooty.......wait, does it sound snooty for me to say thay? :lol:

...dt

capn.sharky - 5-2-2009 at 02:56 PM

Nukid---I understand what you are saying. however, from my experience, people that act like ugly Americans get taken care of by the Mexicans themselves. Some people just don't know how to get along. They probably are not very well liked here at home either. Sharky

BajaGringo - 5-2-2009 at 02:57 PM

Geez...

After reading that link I feel like I need to go and take a shower. That's a new low...

Sharksbaja - 5-2-2009 at 03:41 PM

Thanks Dave....should liberals "lock'n' load". Don't some of you worry?

TheColoradoDude - 5-2-2009 at 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
When I went to college in southern Colorado,

Fort Lewis? I lived in Durango for 10 years from 88 to 98.