BajaNomad - Carnival Not Mexico's Friend

Carnival Not Mexico's Friend

Bajahowodd - 5-5-2009 at 04:57 PM

Saw a press release this morning that Carnival Cruises, has extended its "boycott" of Mexican ports until June 15.

In their defense (possibly), it may just be that their clients don't want to go to Mexican ports right now. In addition, they might find it nearly impossible to call on some Mexican ports and not others.

That being said, I really feel for Ensenada. Many of the cruise lines' regualr ports in Mexico already have a large tourist resort infrastructure. So, if Cabo losses ships, they may or may not feel much pain depending upon the strength of booking for their hotels and timeshares. But poor Ensenada, having watched land-based tourism dwindle for the past two years, was much more dependent upon the cruise passengers for revenue.

I'd just like to have Carnival explain how it is safer to stop in San Diego than Ensenada, with respect to the flu.

woody with a view - 5-5-2009 at 05:20 PM

i would think that if carnival said to their passengers, "come on, it's all over rated, that swine flu thingy. don't worry, just shut up and spend your money." then passengers get sick.... well, johnny cochran would roll over in his grave....

if they stop in SD and someone got sick it's just coincidence, or poor genes

gnukid - 5-5-2009 at 05:26 PM

I have friends on a large cruise "the world" that was just off the shores of La Paz when it was ordered not to dock and to fuel off shore and return to San Diego with no stops except off shore fueling! We had planned this trip for years and the guests are literally stuck on board unable to depart or visit Baja.

The sheer lunacy and false nature of this "pandemic" is now obvious to anyone except those lacking critical thinking ability, as it has been admitted as overblown, that there is no evidence of a flu worse than normal, no evidence of an epidemic nor pandemic, no evidence of a threat of the flu in Baja which must lead any critical thinker to ask WHO would trust these Governments distractions from torture crimes and economic crimes at this point?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090505/ts_nm/us_flu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pxdLzdVr_E

US has confirmed a 2nd death due to H1N1 whereas typical numbers of deaths attributed to flu are in the tens of thousands? Est. 36,000 deaths from flu in 2003

http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/pressrel/r030107.htm

Furthermore extensive evidence exists that there were corporate and government announcements and reports of the coming swine virus before it affected anyone?

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/1026425.ht...

http://www.dailynewscaster.com/2009/05/02/federal-troops-on-...

More examples of planned distractions and nonsense-Drug-war virus spreading like the Swine flu
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/bill-conroy/2009/0...

What does being corrupt really mean, if anything?
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/dennes-longoria/20...

Absurd and incredibly sad, as it appears this is pysops to hurt an already struggling Mexico and detour Americans from plans to move to Mexico in response to the manufactured economic crises.

Put on your thinking caps ol timers! Remember the fist position of Science is skepticism not blind acceptance.

[Edited on 5-6-2009 by gnukid]

805gregg - 5-5-2009 at 06:08 PM

Swine flu on a cruise ship would spell disaster for that cruise line, the cruise lines are already a recipe for mass illness.

[Edited on 5-6-2009 by 805gregg]

bajadock - 5-5-2009 at 06:09 PM

Howodd, Woody and Gnu,
Seeing the 2 cruisers sitting outside of port today in Ensenada, I was guessing what passengers were thinking. There's gotta be a good article by a solid journalist waiting to happen.

"So, did the captain double up the line dance lessons on the lido deck today?"

"How was the historic tour of Ensenada from 1/2 mile away?"

"Did they have fish tacos catered via boat taxi out to your ship?"

"How authentic-looking were the menu waivers as you entered the ship's dining rooms?"

805gregg - 5-5-2009 at 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajadock
Howodd, Woody and Gnu,
Seeing the 2 cruisers sitting outside of port today in Ensenada, I was guessing what passengers were thinking. There's gotta be a good article by a solid journalist waiting to happen.

"So, did the captain double up the line dance lessons on the lido deck today?"

"How was the historic tour of Ensenada from 1/2 mile away?"

"Did they have fish tacos catered via boat taxi out to your ship?"

"How authentic-looking were the menu waivers as you entered the ship's dining rooms?"

No they are saying "why did I let my wife talk me into this cruise"?

Awatson - 5-5-2009 at 06:23 PM

No big loss there Gnukid. What they would have experienced from a cruise ship dock isn't really Baja anyway. IMO

[Edited on 5-6-2009 by Awatson]

Bajahowodd - 5-6-2009 at 12:01 AM

What a shame. The ships are making what is known as a technical call because under the US maritime law, known as the Jones Act, a foreign flagged vessel may not transport passengers between two US ports without making a foreign port of call. So, here are thousands of passengers, at infinitesimal risk viz swine flu, who are unable to partake in the wonderful experience that is Ensenada. Just seems to me that people in charge, especially the "suits" at Carnival are more worried about potential liability than the the enjoyment of their clients.

woody with a view - 5-6-2009 at 07:11 AM

howahhd

are you saying you would pee in the face of liability as long as EVERY client of yours had an overabundance of fun?

doesn't seem like a sound business plan to me.

i'm just sayin'!!!!

gnukid - 5-6-2009 at 09:10 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/05/04/swine.flu.main/index.ht...

Swine flu no worse than regular flu, Napolitano says

“What the epidemiologists are seeing now with this particular strain of U.N. is that the severity of the disease, the severity of the flu—how sick you get—is not stronger than regular seasonal flu,” Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said Monday as the worldwide number of confirmed cases of swine flu—technically known as 2009 H1N1 virus—topped 1,080.

The flu has been blamed for 26 deaths: 25 in Mexico and one in the United States, according to the World Health Organization.

Still, Napolitano noted, the seasonal flu results in “hundreds of thousands of hospitalizations” and roughly 35,000 fatalities each year in the United States. There are still concerns that the virus could return in the fall, in the typical flu season, as a stronger strain.

“We are cautiously optimistic that this particular strain will not be more severe than a normal seasonal flu outbreak,” Napolitano said.

arrowhead - 5-6-2009 at 10:02 AM

The cruise lines are having to give refunds and credits to passengers for not docking in Mexico and their bookings are down also. So, I don't think they are doing this for the money.

Bajahowodd - 5-6-2009 at 10:36 AM

I just think extending the boycott until June 15 is overkill, given what we are learning about the development of the flu epidemic. It is all about perception and liability. Airlines have cut back on flights and downsized aircraft on some routes. Easier for them to cope. Park a plane. Deal with the crew of maybe eight. Cruise lines have to consider their crew of, depending on the size of the ship, upwards of a thousand employees per ship. Not so easy.

The over-reaction in avoiding Mexican ports, which will now appear to last two months, will not prevent a cruise passgenger from contracting the flu from a passenger or crew member who boarded the ship in LA or San Diego.

motoged - 5-6-2009 at 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
What a shame. .... thousands of passengers ....who are unable to partake in the wonderful experience that is Ensenada. ...

And just what are those wonderful experiences in Ensenada????

I have been in town before, during, and after, the cruise ships puke out their sandals-with-socks overweight tourists trying to get "good deals" on T-shirts, cheap viagra, and a quick drunk at discos at 11:00 am.....

Have I missed something???

woody with a view - 5-6-2009 at 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
What a shame. .... thousands of passengers ....who are unable to partake in the wonderful experience that is Ensenada. ...

NOPE! i think you've had the full experience....

Bajahowodd - 5-6-2009 at 03:25 PM

Ah, the cynics. Realize that for many, going to a foreign country is a treat in and of itself. But, beyond that, there are the "historic" bars, great restaurants, a colorful shopping district, and last but not least, many folks opt for a trip to La Buf- which is alot fun.

lizard lips - 5-6-2009 at 06:01 PM

I was in Acapulco 04/24 ---04/28 then spent last weekend in Guadalajara. Took the airport bus from Ensenada to TJ Airport each time both ways, spent the night in hotels, shook many hands, was in plenty of public bathrooms and ate in many restaurants with many others and still have not caught the flu. If anyone should have it, it should be me. Never wore a mask and washed my hands often.

Going to be in Sinaloa all next week. Great time to travel. No lines at airports and no one in the restaurants.

woody with a view - 5-6-2009 at 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
I was in Acapulco 04/24 ---04/28 then spent last weekend in Guadalajara. Took the airport bus from Ensenada to TJ Airport each time both ways, spent the night in hotels, shook many hands, was in plenty of public bathrooms and ate in many restaurants with many others and still have not caught the flu. If anyone should have it, it should be me. Never wore a mask and washed my hands often.

Going to be in Sinaloa all next week. Great time to travel. No lines at airports and no one in the restaurants.

funny. we were in the remote central desert over the same period. there was 1 panguero who had "la gripa" as his friend called it. we gave them what medicines we had that may/may not help his condition..... we shook many hands and partied with the locals. EVERYONE was \wearing masks when we were driving north. we assumed it was due to the strong winds/dust. the border guy told us "they" were contemplating closing the border. "ever heard of swine flu?" he asked. when we headed south there were 3 cases in the u.s. he told us "things are different now. you guys REALLY like it down there?"

i guess i should be saying that we are barely keeping the lid off the coffins, and everyone should stay away...... :light:

Hmmmm

Gypsy Jan - 5-6-2009 at 06:58 PM

Many U.S. evening newscasts led with interviews with very upset cruise customers who had planned on visiting the Mexican ports.

They stated that they paid $xxx,xx for the trip, and that the canceled docking(s) would only net a $20 refund per port.

Call me suspicious, but are the cruise lines using a perfect storm of bad publicity to renegotiate the (allegedly) outrageous docking fees that SEMARNAT (or whatever acronym administrates the ports) to get a better (cheaper) deal?

The cruise lines have issued several PR releases (putting on the most innocent faces possible) that they are only protecting theirs passengers' health.

Just wondering.

[Edited on 5-7-2009 by Gypsy Jan]

osoflojo - 5-6-2009 at 08:02 PM

The cruise ship industry worring about the flu, I guess they want to keep everyone healthy for their own brand of NORWALK VIRUS?????????????

Bajahowodd - 5-6-2009 at 11:49 PM

Jan- Interesting point. Since the cruise industry calls on like a dozen Mexican ports regularly, you may very well be on to something. And how cynical would that be?

bajadock - 5-7-2009 at 07:35 AM

Following is from 2008, but, shows market creativity v. government reg's.

"They were stopping at 2 a.m. at Encinada and leaving at 3 a.m.," said U.S. Maritime Administrator Sean Connaughton. "It was right on their Web site. It said it was only a service call and no passengers could get off the ship there."

Full article...
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/travel/2004151877_webc...

CaboRon - 5-7-2009 at 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Awatson
No big loss there Gnukid. What they would have experienced from a cruise ship dock isn't really Baja anyway. IMO

[Edited on 5-6-2009 by Awatson]

And I am sure there are Spa specials on board ....

If you have never been on a cruise, there is lots to do on the ship .... there have been times I have not gotten off in a port and simply enjoyed many activities on board.

Better than some trinket shop of junk in Ensanada :lol:

Bajahowodd - 5-7-2009 at 10:49 AM

Whatever the reason, the proposals cited in the Seattle Times article were not implemented. I find it funny that the author notes that Norwegian Cruise Lines was for its implementation. The dirty truth is that for many years, American flagged ships made the Hawaiian Island tour, but the company that operated them went bankrupt. Norwegian entered the vacuum, but only had foreign-flagged vessels in its fleet. That caused their itinerary to include a stop at Kiribati, a wasteland foreign atol. It resulted in the loss of a whole day of what was usually port calls on the Hawaiian islands. They ultimately set up a subsidiary company and had at least one ship reflagged US. It was done to attract more business.

Oh, who proof reads stuff for the Seattle Times? Can't they spell Ensenada correctly?

GeoRock - 5-7-2009 at 12:29 PM

I love cruises. And I don't wear socks with sandals. Yes, I am one of those wives that drag their husbands onboard. But I swear I think he ends up having more fun then me, and definitely sleeping more then me.

Cruises are a load of fun. I have two scheduled this year. I'm going at the end of July on the 4-nighter that stops in Ensenada. I know it's not the same as being in the town with a car. But I manage to play tourist for the day and relax, and have plenty of margaritas and contribute to the economy by buying junk.
What is wrong with being a tourist sometimes? It can be fun with the right attitude. I hope they don't extend the unnecessary boycott beyond June 15th or the ship I'm on might run out of good tequila.

Udo - 5-7-2009 at 02:42 PM

For what it's worth...

Carnival has the worst food on any cruiseline we have ever been on. The only reason my wife and I went back on the line was because we won the trips through my job. It's either use it or lose it.

Bajahowodd - 5-7-2009 at 02:50 PM

Thank God that after Carnival bought all those other cruise lines, such as Princess and Holland America, they've more or less allowed them to remain independent and keep their uniqueness and the food!

movinguy - 5-15-2009 at 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Ah, the cynics. Realize that for many, going to a foreign country is a treat in and of itself. But, beyond that, there are the "historic" bars, great restaurants, a colorful shopping district, and last but not least, many folks opt for a trip to La Buf- which is alot fun.

Not sure I have this exactly correct, but apparently the mayor sent his wife or another "undercover" operative on one of the 3 or 4 day cruises to see how they were treated when they disembarked at Ensenada.

The results were, um, "not good".

Bajahowodd - 5-15-2009 at 04:41 PM

You need to define your terms. Treated by who?

woody with a view - 5-15-2009 at 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by udowinkler
For what it's worth...

Carnival has the worst food on any cruiseline we have ever been on. The only reason my wife and I went back on the line was because we won the trips through my job. It's either use it or lose it.

where's the love, man?

i'll volunteer next time!